Question to West-coast American comrades:

[Angry Young Man]

Is San Francisco as posh and stuck up as they say, and is Seattle as bad?

[Pirate Utopian]

ovka37gSGK8

[GracchusBabeuf]

San Fransinco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLpx_yioYik

[cb9's_unity]

I have another question for the west coast, WHY YOU GOTTA KILL BIGGIE!!!????

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well, i might be going to see dawkins in berkely soon so i might have an idea of the bay area.

with every major urban area there are people who "live for their city" and tend to be stuck up. i cant see why SF or Seattle would be too much different than say some Sac people or people from say, Houston

[9]

I live 25 miles north of Seattle, but I almost never go there. Its not so bad, though. There's a lot of good music, bird shit, yuppies, and its exceptionally easy to accidentally turn down a one way street headed in the wrong direction.

[Jimmie Higgins]

There's a lot of gentrification in San Francisco and I honestly don't know how anyone could afford to have a home there - it's probably the same as most other US cities now except a little more compact.

In LA, inequality is more hidden because there are the super-rich who live in secluded areas and the poor are pushed out and the absolute destitute are dumped onto the skid-row tent city in a warehouse district in downtown.

In S.F. it seems like the poverty and wealth are right on top of each other and it's disgusting how they treat the very visible homeless population. The city officials round up homeless people and push them around to different parts of the city in attempts to hide them from tourists. It spoils the romantic atmosphere of the city to have the collateral damage from the dismantling of the welfare state eating out of garbage cans.

[Jimmie Higgins]

its exceptionally easy to accidentally turn down a one way street headed in the wrong direction.That's the defining feature of the modern American city!


... and the bird-shit.

[Comrade B]

Personally, I fucking love Seattle.

[Il Medico]

That's the defining feature of the modern American city!

Yeah but at least in cities there is some structure. In the town I go to school in, the downtown is utterly infuriating. The Main drag (US 41) becomes a one way street after splitting off into Ponce de leon blvd (98). A few signals down from 98 it crosses cortez (SR 50) and a few signals up from it crosses East Jefferson Street (also 50) which is a one way street one way and a two way street the other. If you go the two way side, you'll eventual cross cortez (the other 50) so basically there is a point in this town where you can tell a person to meet you at the corner of SR 50 and SR 50. It's not that hard to figure out after a few times driving, but giving people directions....

[the last donut of the night]

I have another question for the west coast, WHY YOU GOTTA KILL BIGGIE!!!????


Agreed.

[9]

That's the defining feature of the modern American city!


... and the bird-shit.

I live in Everett, which is an urban city, and I've never had the "wrong-way-down-a-one-way-street" problem here. Granted it's not nearly the size of Seattle. But the bird shit here (its a port city) is even more epic than in Seattle.:)

[Comrade B]

Everett,
hehe... hippies...

[9]

hehe... hippies...
:confused: In Everett? Are you kidding? Most of Everett is middle-aged Boeing employees and working class families. I don't think I've ever even seen a hippie here, and I've been living here for 14 years. Are you thinking of Olympia, maybe (The Evergreen State College) ?

[bcbm]

I never liked Seattle much, but I've only been once. Probably won't be back for awhile, especially now that I've abandoned the west coat.

[9]

I never liked Seattle much, but I've only been once. Probably won't be back for awhile, especially now that I've abandoned the west coat.

I might be biased because all my family lives on the east coast, but the east coast owns the west. Everything's bland out here. You don't even get accents!!

[Comrade B]

Olympia, maybe (The Evergreen State College) ?
ah yeah, heh, getting confused
sorry
Been living in Eastern Washington most of my life, pretty different world

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I used to live in the east bay and I love SF, but couldn't even dream of living there it's so ridiculously expensive.

Seattle is a very pretty city, and I like the weather, but I can't stand the people. My cousin went up there when grunge was just coming into its own and today its completely different.

[ls]

I might be biased because all my family lives on the east coast, but the east coast owns the west. Everything's bland out here. You don't even get accents!!

California definitely does, dunno so much about Oregon although likelihood is it does, but Seattle sure does (http://www.seattlepi.com/local/225139_nwspeak20.html), in fact I've been told that Washington state does have a variety of different accents ranging through towns (although the differences are admittedly quite subtle).

And what's more: you get this all over the globe. :p People are varied yaknow.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I might be biased because all my family lives on the east coast, but the east coast owns the west. Everything's bland out here. You don't even get accents!!

hahahahahaha(falling on floor coughing up blood from laughing)hahahahahahaha!

Depend where you mean in the east and where in the west, but overall, The West is the Best.

[ls]

hahahahahaha(falling on floor coughing up blood from laughing)hahahahahahaha!

Depend where you mean in the east and where in the west, but overall, The West is the Best.

According to cool sources NM > TX.

[9]

California definitely does, dunno so much about Oregon although likelihood is it does, but Seattle sure does (http://www.seattlepi.com/local/225139_nwspeak20.html), in fact I've been told that Washington state does have a variety of different accents ranging through towns (although the differences are admittedly quite subtle).

And what's more: you get this all over the globe. :p People are varied yaknow.


Well, I am originally from South Philadelphia, and I spent the first third of my life in that area. The latter two thirds have been spent on the west coast so I do know a bit about what I'm saying:p. There is no dispute that the accents on the east coast are far, far more distinctive than those on the west.

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest#Language):



Language

The Pacific Northwest English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest_English) accent is considered to be "very neutral" to most Americans. It does, however, possess the low back vowel merger, or the Cot-caught merger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cot-caught_merger). Pacific Northwest English is one of the closest living accents to conservative General American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American) English. It lacks the Northern Cities Vowel Shift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cities_Vowel_Shift), and does not participate as strongly in the California Vowel Shift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_English) or the Canadian raising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_raising) as do other regional accents. Because of its lack of any distinguishing vowel shift, the accent is very similar to and hard to distinguish from conservative speakers in other dialect regions especially the Northern Midlands, California, and the prairies.
Chinook Jargon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_Jargon) was a pidgin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin) or trade language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_language) established among the indigenous inhabitants of the region (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Pacific_Northwest_Coast) . After contact with Europeans, French, English and Cree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cree_language) words entered the language, and "eventually Chinook became the lingua franca for as many as 250,000 people along the Pacific Slope from Alaska to Oregon".[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest#cite_note-13) Chinook Jargon reached its height of usage in the 19th century though remained common in resource and wilderness areas, particularly but not exclusively by Native Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States) and Canadian First Nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Nations) people, well into the 20th century. Today its influence is felt mostly in place names (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_name) and a handful of localized slang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slang) terms, particularly the word skookum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skookum), which remains hallmark of people raised in the region.
Besides English and indigenous languages, Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language) has been common since the gold rushes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_rush) of the mid-19th century, most particularly in British Columbia. Since the 1980s the Toishan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taishan), a Cantonese-based dialect which was predominant in the area, has been replaced by mainstream Cantonese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue_Chinese) and by Mandarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese) because of large-scale immigration from Asia. Punjabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_language) is also common in Vancouver, which has very large Sikh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh) communities.Also from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_accents):


In many ways, compared to English English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_England), North American English[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_accents#cite_note-3) is conservative in its phonology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonology).[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Some distinctive accents can be found on the East Coast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Coast_of_the_United_States) (for example, in Eastern New England and New York City), partly because these areas were in contact with England, and imitated prestigious varieties of English English at a time when those varieties were undergoing changes.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_accents#cite_note-4) In addition, many speech communities on the East Coast have existed in their present locations longer than others. The interior of the United States, however, was settled by people from all regions of the existing United States and, therefore, developed a far more generic linguistic pattern.Alllso from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_English_regional_phonology):


Defining regions of North American speech

Regional dialects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect) in North America are most strongly differentiated along the Eastern seaboard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_seaboard). The distinctive speech of important cultural centers like Boston, Massachusetts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston,_Massachusetts) (see Boston accent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_accent)); Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia,_Pennsylvania); Charleston, South Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston,_South_Carolina); and New Orleans, Louisiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans,_Louisiana) imposed their marks on the surrounding areas. The Connecticut River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_River) is usually regarded as the southern/western extent of New England speech, while the Potomac River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potomac_River) generally divides a group of Northern coastal dialects from the beginning of the Coastal Southern dialect area (distinguished from the Highland Southern or South Midland dialect treated below, although outsiders often mistakenly believe that the speech in these two areas is the same); in between these two rivers several local variations exist, most famous among them the variety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_dialect) that prevails in New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City).
Dialects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect) on the East Coast of the continent are most diverse chiefly because the East Coast has been populated by English-speaking people longer than any other region. Western speech is much more homogeneous because it was settled by English speakers more recently, and so there has been less time for the West to diversify into a multiplicity of distinctive accents. A reason for the differences between (on the one hand) Eastern and (on the other hand) Midwestern and Western accents is that the East Coast areas were in contact with England, and imitated prestigious varieties of British English at a time when those varieties were undergoing changes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_change). The interior of the country was settled by people who were no longer closely connected to England, as they had no access to the ocean during a time when journeys to Britain were always by sea, and so Western and inland speakers did not imitate the changes in speech from England.Oy, I'm a fucking closet nerd.

[Comrade B]

Washington state does have a variety of different accents ranging through towns (although the differences are admittedly quite subtle).
Check out the east man, we have a totally different way of talking, kinda Texany sounding in some people, a lot of people also have slight or strong Mexican accents, the main differences are the way the people say the letters a and r

[9]

^the main thing I noticed when I first moved here, and I still remember thinking it was very strange, was the different "o" pronunciations of certain words. For example, being from Philadelphia (and I think this is actually typical of the east in general), I always pronounced the word "orange" like "arnge". The same for the word "forest", which I pronounced as "farrest". I also noticed there are some people here (in Washington) who pronounce "milk" as "melk", and "pillow" as "pellow", and "roof" as "ruff". It still irritates me. There is also the different "a" sound. In Philadelphia, "grass" was pronounced more like "greayss" and "cash" as "keaysh" and "dog" as "duag/doiwg/dawg", and "ball" as "bawl/boowl". In fact, some of the Philadelphia "a" sounds are quite similar to the New York accent. If I could afford college courses, I think I would like to study linguistics. Unfortunately, unless I start peeing pure cash, I doubt that will ever happen.

[ahab]

frisco-really fucking rich, yes, stuck up, no (also, oakland gets a bad rep but check it out its pretty chill and the bud is fantastico!)

seattle is ok, pretty fucking boring though

[Comrade B]

Heh, I have a really bastardized accent.
My first language is sort-of German, so even though I don't really speak it that well any more, I still have a little of an accent with some words
Also I was born in Queens New York, and my parents have very strong accents, so I do have a little of an accent from there, however in the 16 years I grew up in Washington (Worshingtin in Walla Wallan) I have mixed them all together, sounding strange to everyone, hehe.
My friends at home like to joke about the way I say Coffee (cawfee) where they say coffee near phonetically

[9]

Heh, I have a really bastardized accent.
My first language is sort-of German, so even though I don't really speak it that well any more, I still have a little of an accent with some words
Also I was born in Queens New York, and my parents have very strong accents, so I do have a little of an accent from there, however in the 16 years I grew up in Washington (Worshingtin in Walla Wallan) I have mixed them all together, sounding strange to everyone, hehe.
My friends at home like to joke about the way I say Coffee (cawfee) where they say coffee near phonetically

:blink:Whoa, what the hell.. that's insanely similar to my situation. I mean like, almost a little creepy how similar, even the part about "cawfee" is spot fucking on.
Look, I think I can even repeat what you just said word for word, while altering the language in question and it will read perfectly like my situation:

My first language is sort-of [Yiddish], so even though I don't really speak it that well any more, I still have a little of an accent with some words.
Also I was born in [South Philadelphia], and my parents have very strong accents, so I do have a little of an accent from there, however in the [14] years I grew up in Washington ([just...no]) I have mixed them all together, sounding strange to everyone, hehe.
My friends at home like to joke about the way I say Coffee (cawfee) where they say coffee near phonetically.
END

Seriously though, that's fucking weird. Especially when you're a fellow Washing-fucking-tonian.
One thing strange, though, about my weird hybrid accent is that my mother was from Baltimore (hands down, the most disgusting accent on the face of the earth - and yet, strangely similar to the Philly accent in many ways), so, while never living in MD myself, I picked up some of the pronunciations from my mother (considering she is the main person who taught me to speak). One of these that I still have, which other people always pick up on, is the Baltimore pronunciation of "on". It replaces the "o" sound with a sound very similar to the "aw" in the "cawfee" that we both say. But the beginning is much more of an "oowa" sound, if that makes sense. "oow'n" (but said quickly). If you've ever heard Nancy Pelosi say "on", that's the accent. It makes me ill:closedeyes:

[Jimmie Higgins]

There's hella accents out here on the west cost! Well ok, on the east cost they are definitely more well defined by region.

[spiltteeth]

EaSt sIDeE!
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae191/spiltteeth/east-side-gallery7.jpg

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae191/spiltteeth/love-ny-funny.jpg

[Jimmie Higgins]

frisco-really fucking rich, yes, stuck up, no (also, oakland gets a bad rep but check it out its pretty chill and the bud is fantastico!)Yup, they call it Oaksterdam and you don't even need the pretense of a prescription.

My favorite thing is the kinds on their scraper bikes though.

Cops are insane here and there's some disgusting new show on Discovery Chanel that's about "heroic" Oakland cops facing off against "an army of armed thugs" (these are actual quotes from the show)... it's the most racist and disgusting thing to come on TV since Lou Dobbs was allowed to leave Tatooine and change his name from Jabba the Hut.


seattle is ok, pretty fucking boring thoughI still want to come up and see it - maybe drive up to Canada too - just so I can say I've been to another country.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

According to cool sources NM > TX.

I agree completely.

I also lived in Tucson, AZ, and it's fucking gorgeous. Not the ugly Mojave/Las Vegas type desert, but a truly fucking beautiful place.

God I love the southwest.

But the west as a whole, the east simply doesn't have anything that compares. Yes, there's a few collossal cities and just as many traffic jams, but there's nothing like Montana in the east.

In the words of John Steinbeck, I like many states, but I am absolutely in love with Montana.

[Angry Young Man]

What about Detroit? I know it's nowhere near the West Coast, but it seems pretty cool, and with it being so far away from the sea there can't be the birdshit problem :D

And if any American comrade wants to know about a British city, I'll be happy to offer my advice.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Um, detroit, well, if you like cold dillapidated city, sure.

Anyways,

http://www.astronomynotes.com/nature/shoffner/MonumentValley2.jpg

http://gvozdey.net.ua/oboi/08.10.2007/land/Near_Iceberg_Lake2C_Glacier_National_Park2C_Montan a.jpg

http://www.bergoiata.org/fe/divers01/Above%20the%20Clouds,%20Mt.%20Shasta,%20California .jpg

So what I'm trying to say is, even if you don't like the culture out west, it's still one of the prettiest, and in many cases most undisturbed areas anywhere.

Also, being stuck out here on the atlantic coast doesn't compare, at all.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I've been to both costs and love them both for different reasons. I like west coast slang better than the east, but the accents are much better back there. I would love to come to see Montana someday - I've been to the grand canyon which definitely lives up to the reputation... I was expecting to be underwhelmed, but it was a sublime experience.

But I guess we all have a little regional attachment though because whenever I read one of Steinbeck's California novels or hear Pavement lyrics, I get a little homesick:

down in Santa Rosa over the bay
across the grapevine to L.A.
we've got desert, we've got trees
we've got the hills of Beverly
let's burn the hills of Beverly!!

up to the top of the shasta gulch
and to the bottom of the tahoe lakes
manmade deltas and concrete rivers
the south takes what the north delivers
you film hack, i don't use your...fade...

[ls]

I agree completely.

I also lived in Tucson, AZ, and it's fucking gorgeous. Not the ugly Mojave/Las Vegas type desert, but a truly fucking beautiful place.


Tucson has a lot going for it so I'm told, it's supposed to be a beautiful one fosho.


God I love the southwest.

But the west as a whole, the east simply doesn't have anything that compares. Yes, there's a few collossal cities and just as many traffic jams, but there's nothing like Montana in the east.

In the words of John Steinbeck, I like many states, but I am absolutely in love with Montana.

Welp, this guy I know from albuquerque, NM said his trip up to Montana was one of the best times of his life, he saw some special artist there too see, called Graham Lindsey. Anyways, he said that a certain shop in Missoula called Ear Candy was "like heaven on earth", idk if you would say the same, it seems like a common favourite though.

[Jimmie Higgins]

And if any American comrade wants to know about a British city, I'll be happy to offer my advice.If I have to hear one more person from the UK talk about how beautiful Sheffield is again...:)

Actually I love hearing about regional differences in the UK and would love to visit if I had the money. Are there any Welsh cities or is it all pretty rural? In the US you only see travel footage of the area which makes it all look hilly and nice without any industry other than bed and breakfast places for American tourists.

[ls]

Actually I love hearing about regional differences in the UK and would love to visit if I had the money. Are there any Welsh cities or is it all pretty rural? In the US you only see travel footage of the area which makes it all look hilly and nice without any industry other than bed and breakfast places for American tourists.

South Wales (where all the urban places are mostly) is nice enough, but north Wales is known for its beautiful scenery, espesh Snowdonia (http://www.snowdonia-wales.net/gallery/default.asp).

[Shin Honyong]

As a Seattle native, I love Seattle but its gotten kinda upper-class lately and has lost some of the edge it use to have. Portland has kinda taken over as the main place in the northwest to hangout and have fun in.

[Angry Young Man]

Are there any Welsh cities or is it all pretty rural? In the US you only see travel footage of the area which makes it all look hilly and nice without any industry other than bed and breakfast places for American tourists.

Yea, Cardiff's cool. Not worth a holiday, mind, unless you're on a Manics pilgrimage. Newport is a shitheap. And what the brochures don't tell you about nice, hilly rural Wales is that its population hates you personally for not being Welsh

[ls]

As a Seattle native, I love Seattle but its gotten kinda upper-class lately and has lost some of the edge it use to have. Portland has kinda taken over as the main place in the northwest to hangout and have fun in.

I've heard that Portland is infinitely more gentrified, liberalistic and neo-hippyish than Seattle (that's not to say there probably isn't a lot of good left activity there btw).

[bcbm]

I've heard that Portland is infinitely more gentrified, liberalistic and neo-hippyish than Seattle (that's not to say there probably isn't a lot of good left activity there btw).

there isn't a lot of good left activity there, actually. portland's weak.


anyway, there's no coast like no coast, midwest all the way.

[ls]

Midwest rhymes with dog's breast.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Thanks for the tips on Whales, Angry Young Man and Is.

Portland seems like a bigger, rainier, Santa Cruz to me. Probably the best bars on the West Cost though - from what I can remember.

Oregon in general seems to have a lot of lifestylism of the radical left and the radical right - hippies and lifestyle anarchists living on communes and squats while down the road are right-wing survivalists with their gun stashes on compounds.

[ellipsis]

SF is a cool city, I had a good time on holiday. You can literally smoke spliffs where ever you want, so it has that going for it.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Great bud too. Last time I went back smoked a ton of hash.

It was bliss.

[Kukulofori]

moved to Portland last month and fucking love it.