Obama wants longer school days and shorter summer vacation

[Kukulofori]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school

In before fascism.

[Outinleftfield]

Thank God Im not in school anymore. It gets worse and worse. Ive heard more and more schools are getting video cameras. I will tutor my kids before sending them to a school that does that.

[pierrotlefou]

That would be fine if the school system wasn't a total fucking joke like it is now and if they didn't teach a bias/subjective view on world history and have textbooks that ignore or gloss over every american atrocity in existence.

[Kukulofori]

That would be fine if the school system wasn't a total fucking joke like it is now and if they didn't teach a bias/subjective view on world history and have textbooks that ignore or gloss over every american atrocity in existence.

No it wouldn't. (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm)

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'd be in favor of a reform along these lines is it was part of an overall effort to rebuild and fund public schools particularly in poor areas. I think a lot of working parents would have their lives greatly improved if there was decent socialized childcare for children through schools or the school day was designed so that working parents could schedule their child's school day around their work schedule.

It's insane that kids are let out of school at 3pm at a time when even in 2-parent households, both parents have to work until 5 or 6.

As it is and with public education in an underfunded and poor condition, I'm highly skeptical of President "leave no school un-chartered" Obama suggesting large changes to public ed.

[khad]

While American public education can be shitty, I have little patience for people whining about this as fascism. Grow up. You'll see that none of this matters.

[Kukulofori]

While American public education can be shitty, I have little patience for people whining about this as fascism. Grow up. You'll see that none of this matters.

it sure as hell matters to the people who could spend more days or hours per day forced somewhere where they don't want to be.

[ZeroNowhere]

This isn't exactly fascism, but it's still shit. Soon enough, US schools may even be as shitty as Singaporean public schools. After all, it seems politicians are getting quite fond of it. Students not so much.

[Kukulofori]

Part of fascismis uaiing the state to guide the intellectual, spiritual, and emotinal development of a populace. If you lock children somewhere for an unreasonable amount of time where the state decides what they can and can't see there -- especially with the new precedent of direct addresses by the President -- guess what you get.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

While American public education can be shitty, I have little patience for people whining about this as fascism. Grow up. You'll see that none of this matters.

The state's system of social engineering and brainwashing doesn't matter? I'd say it's highly fascist. Kids are forced to learn state-sponsored material on campuses that every day increasingly look like prisons.

[NecroCommie]

You people are once again over using the term "fascist". Soon it has no meaning anymore as everything is fascist. I'd prefer the term authoritarian.

As to the topic itself, this action alone merely pisses students off. If this were in coordination with general increase of education quality, it might be even good. Nowadays however I cannot find myself taking american school-system seriously. American teachers tend to be:

1) Biased

2) Not educated enough in their subject

3) Not educated enough in teaching

This is proved by blooming conservative eductional methods, such as lack of any real vocational alternative, and the fact that they seriously consider creationism.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I do not support this measure due to the US school are being so shitty, ineffective and wasteful. You really need to reform the education before considering if this will help the students' future.

[rosie]

I am opposed to the longer hours and shorter vacationing not only because of the biased, pro-democracy, pro-american imperialism, and anti-critical thought that is currently being taught in the public school system, but also because it forces teachers to lose even more of their rights as workers in this country. I think, however, that this action will be a great tool for the organization and mobilization of students and teachers against the capitalist state. When the schools shut down, the state will HAVE to listen. Just the same goes with the factories. And the railways, and the trucks. VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

[Dimentio]

I think that the entire school system should be reformed, but I do not see anything bad with Obama's intended reform. It is good to focus on knowledge.

[NecroCommie]

I think that the entire school system should be reformed, but I do not see anything bad with Obama's intended reform. It is good to focus on knowledge.
On this we can agree, yes! Where as we might be dubious of his methods, the basic prioritation of knowledge is positive.

[Dimentio]

If we look at most countries, the less emphasis on knowledge for a region the more reactionary social political viewpoints.

[KurtFF8]

I'd be in favor of a reform along these lines is it was part of an overall effort to rebuild and fund public schools particularly in poor areas. I think a lot of working parents would have their lives greatly improved if there was decent socialized childcare for children through schools or the school day was designed so that working parents could schedule their child's school day around their work schedule.

It's insane that kids are let out of school at 3pm at a time when even in 2-parent households, both parents have to work until 5 or 6.

As it is and with public education in an underfunded and poor condition, I'm highly skeptical of President "leave no school un-chartered" Obama suggesting large changes to public ed.

Thank you. Many people don't understand that the longer their kids are in school, the more free daycare for the parents it is. This allows parents to not have to worry about their kids after school and even if the parents don't work until 5 or so: they can have some free time while their children learn.

[jake williams]

The state school under capitalism is fucking horrendous. Not only is it perhaps the primary ideological arm of that state - it really doesn't care about its subjects, students. American schools especially are quite bad, especially in poor neighbourhoods partly for class "political" reasons and partly for financing reasons, but it's a general phenomenon.

Thus, while it might be good both for students and for parents that student spend more time in some utterly hypothetical "school" that looks nothing like what REAL schools look like - this ain't that. I would guess this is, drawing partly on some comments he's made before, paternalistic nonsense from Mr. Obama is that the problem for black people (or poor people) in the US right now is that they don't put all their trust in the US state and in US capitalism.

[PossiblyLeft]

As somebody that has to go to public school this certainly pisses me off. I got to a school in a low class area (even though to be fair I wouldn't consider my family to be low class) and really keeping kids in school longer is bullcrap because the real issue is the kids don't want to learn. It's this bullshit coorperate animal MTV that promotes this retarded "gangsta" culture that says school is for losers be a real pimp like 50 Cent and sell drugs. I although actually can say proudly I have probably watched less than two hours of that shit in my life. In the end though the issue comes down to lower class kids being born into broken homes and since mom either has to work or is a flatout shit parent that plops their kids infront of the TV instead of reading to them.

[ComradeOm]

I suggest that the people who have described this move as 'fascist' should themselves go back and spend a few extra hours in the classroom. Regardless of the merits of these policies (and I can't see anything overly wrong about them) it is in no way fascist and is being blown entirely out of proportion

And, for the record, having three months holidays is not some fundamental human right that is now being infringed


If you lock children somewhere for an unreasonable amount of time where the state decides what they can and can't see there -- especially with the new precedent of direct addresses by the President -- guess what you get.Smarter kids?

[Guerrilla22]

I agree that the US public education system needs to get better, but the problem is going to be once again that some schools are numerous resources while the schools in the inner cities and other impoverished areas will struggle. It would be no problem for the school districts in the more well to do areas to pull off an increased school year, but due to budget constraints the schools that are struggling will struggle even more because they'll have to stretch what little resources they have even further.

[the last donut of the night]

I suggest that the people who have described this move as 'fascist' should themselves go back and spend a few extra hours in the classroom. Regardless of the merits of these policies (and I can't see anything overly wrong about them) it is in no way fascist and is being blown entirely out of proportion

And, for the record, having three months holidays is not some fundamental human right that is now being infringed

Smarter kids?


These policies are problematic for several reasons. Obama has never lived up to his promises, and I doubt how he portrays his policy now will actually have anything to do with them when they're enforced.

Moreover, it seems like Obama (like all the other neo-cons) thinks that struggling schools fail because the teachers are lazy, the unions are 'restrictive', the usual B.S. His solution, thus, is to add on more days and more hours of school. I doubt that'll work. Also, many students and teachers oppose it.

Longer school day =/= smarter kids.

[Jimmie Higgins]

As somebody that has to go to public school this certainly pisses me off. I got to a school in a low class area (even though to be fair I wouldn't consider my family to be low class) and really keeping kids in school longer is bullcrap because the real issue is the kids don't want to learn. It's this bullshit coorperate animal MTV that promotes this retarded "gangsta" culture that says school is for losers be a real pimp like 50 Cent and sell drugs. I although actually can say proudly I have probably watched less than two hours of that shit in my life. In the end though the issue comes down to lower class kids being born into broken homes and since mom either has to work or is a flatout shit parent that plops their kids infront of the TV instead of reading to them.

"Broken homes" is really an effect of the shit of life in this system... not the cause of shit-lives. If Brad Pitt divorced Angelina Joelie, no one would say their adopted kids grew up in a "broken home" and none of them would have the hardships of working class kids who grow up in a 2 parent home.

Also, I didn't know MTV still promoted any music at all. And what's wrong with 50 cent - other than that he's a shitty rapper with no flow who sounds like he recorded his album after being abruptly woken from a nap?

When I moved to LA, I had a roommate who was rich and his dad was in the movie business - I went to some parties with children of hollywood people and I'd never seen people so enamored with "gangsta" culture and coke and meth. Funny, none of them ended up with shitty lives like the people I grew up with that got hooked on meth or acted like wanna-be gangsters.

Really, class makes all the difference, not weather you listen to materialistic music by 50 cent or Hair Metal bands.

[gorillafuck]

Lengthening school hours wouldn't be necessary if resources in schools were evened out, with some schools having a lot of good materials and some schools with materials being scarce and poor quality. Just lengthening school days will do almost nothing to improve education as long as this is the case.

[Comrade B]

Sticking kids in schools for longer periods wont change a damn thing if the school system is still shit.
The some of the required classes for my public school education included two years chemistry (useless to most people, and made far too basic for any conventional use), three years of studying mountain men in the Pacific North West, a class about the value of the constitution and the US political structure, a class on cooking (things like pies and cookies... completely useless waste of half a year of my life), a class on careers, and a variety of other useless pieces of shit classes.
While sports received all cash for their events, academic groups had to raise money independently.
My average class size was 31.
The principle had students thrown out for a variety of bull shit reasons, from smoking weed, to repeat dress code violations and beating his football player son in a fight.
The only thing the school actually put a substantial amount of cash into was an elaborate system of cameras inside bullet proof orbs which covered nearly the entire campus, excluding two short hall ways and a stairway, as well as getting tazers for the security guards. We also had an armed police officer on campus from 7am to 5pm.

I graduated last year, and thank fucking god for that.

The school system in the US does not have its main priority as educating their students, but teaching obedience.

[Manifesto]

Ok there are some days of school where I can barely finish the homework with the time that I have when say there is a lot of homework in every class. This would only make that worse considering they would probably add two more classes and extend the time. In case anyone wants to say study hall would fix that, it was canceled years ago.

[Comrade B]

they would probably add two more classes and extend the time.\
That brings up another thing
Exactly what would the extra time be filled with? What would two extra classes do to change the system? Having work doesn't mean people learn it.
One of the main problems I see in the education system is that the schools completely fail in appealing to the students. Many students don't see a need for them to be there, they have a set future which is not benefited at all through what the schools offer them.
This cannot change in a class based system.
Freedom cannot exist without stability. The working class is stuck in the first stages of Maslow's hierarchy. Communism is the only solution to the failed education system. We give people the opportunity to live a life with their basic needs supplied and the opportunity to go further in education if they want it. Extended classes will not get the education system anywhere, schools need to inspire their students. Students cannot be inspired unless there is a reason to be inspired.

[makesi]

You all fucking sound like a Dr. Pepper commercial ("be an individual") or the reactionary motivational speakers that I've had to listen to as a teacher.

I get sick and tired of hearing this constant anti-statism, anti-public education crap. The performance of the American educational system, on a global level, is by no stretch of the imagination a total failure.

American schools are also quite different from those in many other countries, in their lack of what you people call authoritarianism. The sort of "backtalk" and student behavior that is tolerated, for better or worse (I think it's part of our culture as it has developed over the last 30 years or so), in American schools presents a marked contrast to what you would see in most other parts of the world.

The obsession with cameras strikes me, personally, as juvenile. Honestly, I think the alarm stems from a larger cultural trend that originated on the right, the far right in fact, of fearing the government and seeing it as the slow boiling of the frog, so to speak, i.e., the gradual implementation of totalitarianism.

[KarlMarx1989]

Hey, Japan starts its schools in April and ends them in March and they have a very high graduation rate. I think it's about 99% comparing to chrisitan-America's 84%.

[ComradeOm]

These policies are problematic for several reasons. Obama has never lived up to his promises, and I doubt how he portrays his policy now will actually have anything to do with them when they're enforcedAre you suggesting that when Obama says that he wants kids in school for longer hours he might actually be covering for a policy to have them in school for less hours? Or devote the extra time to slaving away in his hidden uranium mines?

Really, this is a simply measure to increase the amount of time that children spend in class. Its not going to suddenly fix a broken system but there is absolutely no harm to it. Who knows, some kids might actually learn something in the increased time. Wouldn't that be a shocker


Exactly what would the extra time be filled with?To take an example from the article, spending an extra ten minutes a day teaching maths. Ohhh... the fascist state strikes again!

[Wanted Man]

These programs usually depend on the quality of the education system that's in place already. They tried to implement a mandatory 1040 hours a year here, but it failed. There aren't enough teachers, so schools often filled up the 1040 hours by simply making kids sit in the classroom and do nothing for hours. Many schools suffer from low-quality education, too large classes (>30 students), lack of teachers, and other problems.

The measure caused thousands of students to protest, and they made it less strict in the end. A report from a government committee concluded that education reform over the past 20 years has been a disaster, and that successive governments have carelessly implemented reforms without any scientific basis, without any consultation of teachers, parents and students, and have only managed to bureaucratize and complicate the educational system.

I wonder how this is going to work out in the US. Will they fall into the same traps when trying to renew the educational system? If more hours are combined with measures that actually improve the quality of education, then it's a different story entirely. In any case, it's not "fascism" - get a grip, lads.

[MilitantAnarchist]

i think im just gonna 'dito' what other people have said.
Education is the most improtant thing, and if the education system wasnt so shit (if the US is anything like UK then its pretty damn shit) then it would/could be a good thing...
I never used to think so, but learning is pretty cool actually... but if school was more 'open' where you can learn stuff you want to or at least have more choice! then it would be enjoyable... it does need complete reformation, and if you ask me then it would solve alot of problems we have.

[Comrade B]

Definitely not fascism. Just not effective. That is my only real complaint about it.
If the education system were improved it might not be a bad idea, on the other hand it might also not be necessary.
The problem with the cameras though, is that they are constantly used to keep an eye on every students personal behavior, and that it is a massive waste of cash. The school administration has no reason to know what students do with their friends, so long as it does not interrupt their education.

[revolt4thewin]

Nobama= broken promises
Nobama= trillions more into debt
Nobama= more bailout for greedy walstreet

[The Author]

This measure will never get passed, for the simple reason that it would require even more federal funding to prop up school districts around the country. With the Republicans in Congress giving Obama the finger for the "public option" in his health bill, I doubt they'll approve a measure like this one. Spending on education or healthcare or public welfare is not a priority for Senators or Representatives- especially from the Republican Party. Spending on a thousand new ways on how to bomb a city or build a high-tech tank with laser cannons is something that would pass, or boosting law enforcement and prisons is a priority.

Obama may like talking about this, but he's already pissed off a lot of people with his "stimulus" bill and failing to deliver on his "promises," and the reactionary fuckers in this country who think he's Lenin- that they'll vote Republican in 2010 and 2012, and then we'll have another long-term period of deadlock and debate and bullshit in the American political system which won't get measures like this passed. Oh, wait. I forgot Ted Kennedy kicked the bucket, so now there's the waiting ordeal for another Senator to take his place come January. Still, the main issue here is funding for an extended school system. The government won't give, unless the standards are "raised"- meaning more testing, more standards to follow, schools getting tougher rankings, teachers getting flogged into following rigid guidelines because without those high standards federal funding won't come, and so on. All of this will make the education system much more complicated and fucked up than it already is.

I also believe we currently have more hours in our schools per year than in a country like the Netherlands. I say this because I seem to recall a thread a couple years back that covered those very protests Wanted Man was referring to. I have no idea how the Dutch education system works, and I can't compare and contrast it to our system. But I can guarantee that since our education system is really fucked up enough as it is, simply adding more hours is not going to fix this. This is Obama's attempt at showing the public that he is doing something, but in reality is doing nothing but talking- a trait he excels at.

[makesi]

These programs usually depend on the quality of the education system that's in place already. They tried to implement a mandatory 1040 hours a year here, but it failed. There aren't enough teachers, so schools often filled up the 1040 hours by simply making kids sit in the classroom and do nothing for hours. Many schools suffer from low-quality education, too large classes (>30 students), lack of teachers, and other problems.

The measure caused thousands of students to protest, and they made it less strict in the end. A report from a government committee concluded that education reform over the past 20 years has been a disaster, and that successive governments have carelessly implemented reforms without any scientific basis, without any consultation of teachers, parents and students, and have only managed to bureaucratize and complicate the educational system.

I wonder how this is going to work out in the US. Will they fall into the same traps when trying to renew the educational system? If more hours are combined with measures that actually improve the quality of education, then it's a different story entirely. In any case, it's not "fascism" - get a grip, lads.


This is a sensible comment, I think. Issues of practicality almost certainly make all the concerns and cries a moot point.

And just extending the school day with no, or little, additional input in from budget resources to make something of it sounds like the way US legislators would probably do things.

Sheeeiit. In fact, speaking as a teacher, (well....former teacher, now tutor, trying to be a teacher again) if something like this happened where I worked and I'm already expected to meet state assessment levels for my subject area, or maintain a close monitoring of student case files for Special Ed., or etc. etc. I wouldn't waste my time planning much for the students in that extra time. It would be movie time, baby! Or Battleship tournaments!

On the other hand, were the policy sensibly implemented (i.e; not on the lines of the business "efficiency" lines that are being transferred to the public sector more and more and more these days) it could expand employment and, I think, make positive additions to the US school system.

[SurrogateofTime]

There are several problems that need to be solved... One is the fact that children and teenagers are being left behind... Its no new fact that children especially highschool students are being thrown in the dirt to fend for themselves, with no one to be there for them whatsoever. This means... That there are kids out there that are being told that if they don't do it, then thats there choice, and that they are allowed to throw their educational careers away at a drop of a dime...

Now, if you ask me... Thats just wrong, and we should be solving these issues first.

[revolt4thewin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAGJud6WSxA
The day he became president. :laugh: