A Middle Class State Of Mind?

[MilitantAnarchist]

OK, I put it to you that the Middle Class does not exist....
I put it to you that it is a ruling class con to divide us...

My proof of this, is merely observation.
There are many different interpretations of the meaning of what defines you Working Class or Middle Class... it depends on opinion, granted, but my interpretation of Middle Class is ;Someone who does the work for the ruling class by commanding the working class (or to that effect)...

But isnt that what we are all doing? If we work, we are only working for someone who works for the ruling class, they are merely a middle man...
The way i see it, even though 9/10 times i've hated my boss'... but all of them have started where i was, and worked their bollocks off to get a better job... NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE AN ELITE TWAT, because they want a better life and they want to provide for their family and loved ones.....
Now, for my definition of Working Class; Someone who works their bollocks off to have a better life and provide for their family and loved ones.....

Maybe i've got it all wrong, but we all want to live a decent life, and us blaming the middle class' is just defecting our true plight to (metophorically speaking) 'behead' the true enemy; The Ruling Class.....

The attitude of a number of Middle Class people (not a LARGE number, but a number none the less) is looking at people with less then them and turning their nose up... now that is just snobbery brought by the dividing feeling that THEY are Middle Class, and WE are Working Class, therefore we are no more then plebious morons that cant get anywhere in life...

I know, if i have a mate that has a nice house, and has a couple of kids at private school, but he works his cock off and comes down the pub, with NO snobbery, he is my Working Class Comrade, much more then some twat who doesn’t work, lives in a council flat and shouts NATIONAL FRONT! WOGS OUT WHITES IN!!! in corner shops and Asian folk, that man there aint no mate of mine, and i'm ashamed to say he is Working Class.... The fact he lives in a council flat isnt the point, i'm only mentioning that because he has no interest in anything political and is happy to live rent free (this isnt the place to debate anything like that, it is just an example that is a throw away comment, please dont focus on that, this is an important debate)...

The 'snobs' of the Middle Class are just snobs, there is a such thing as Working Class snobs to, but dont get your back up as much...
I say the Middle Class SHOULD be our friend, not our enemy, because after all, we all work for 'the man'... I say there is no such thing as Middle Class, there is only Working Class... We all HAVE to work for a pathetic amount of money and struggle to get from day to day, the lucky few that get a decent wage dont get it for nothing (in most cases)... The REAL profit goes into the pockets of the super rich... We work under them, the only division should be US and THEM.... We are ALL Working Class... We should unite!

Your opinions and criticisms please...

[MilitantAnarchist]

Its alrite, i didnt want anyone to actually read or discuss what i wrote :blink:

[The Douche]

Class is determined by your relationship to the means of production.

Workers sell their ability to work to the boss.
The boss owns the means of production.

Between these two classes is another class of managers exist to facilitate. These managers are paid more than their labor value is worth usually, but not always. There are also people who own the means of production but still have to work, like small business owners. That is the middle class.

[Plagueround]

Its alrite, i didnt want anyone to actually read or discuss what i wrote :blink:

I've simply moved it for you to the proper forum so it will get the desired response. I'll trash the non-related replies for you (even though they inflated my new admin ego :lol:) but please chill out. People will be more inclined to read your contributions if you're not so hostile.

[MilitantAnarchist]

that is your oppinion of middle class... that is my point... the 'government' statistics say somthing like only 30% or so of the country is Working Class... where as Class War say it is 75%.... i would say it is higher still personally....

The idea of class isn't somthing written in stone...

[MilitantAnarchist]

I've simply moved it for you to the proper forum so it will get the desired response. I'll trash the non-related replies for you (even though they inflated my new admin ego :lol:) but please chill out. People will be more inclined to read your contributions if you're not so hostile.

Fair play... though i have spent most of my life being hostile unfortunatly, maybe i should try chilling out....
nah :lol:

[gorillafuck]

My proof of this, is merely observation.
There are many different interpretations of the meaning of what defines you Working Class or Middle Class... it depends on opinion, granted, but my interpretation of Middle Class is ;Someone who does the work for the ruling class by commanding the working class (or to that effect)...I've never heard that definition, usually what I think of as "middle class" is a salaried professional who lives a very comfortable life. But it's such a vague term so it's hard to pinpoint.

(I know there's not REALLY such thing as "middle class" unless you mean self-employed or small business owners, but middle class as what I said can be a good sociological indicator)


But isnt that what we are all doing? If we work, we are only working for someone who works for the ruling class, they are merely a middle man...
The way i see it, even though 9/10 times i've hated my boss'... but all of them have started where i was, and worked their bollocks off to get a better job... NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE AN ELITE TWAT, because they want a better life and they want to provide for their family and loved ones..... It really depends what they became after they worked their bollocks off. If someone becomes a doctor then they're not taking an anti-worker job, they're helping people who are sick and are performing a job that is necessary for society. But then there are some jobs that are anti-worker (the first thing that comes to mind would be a cop)

[The Douche]

that is your oppinion of middle class... that is my point... the 'government' statistics say somthing like only 30% or so of the country is Working Class... where as Class War say it is 75%.... i would say it is higher still personally....

The idea of class isn't somthing written in stone...

For people with a marxian view of economics, class is very nearly written in stone.

The government and popular culture tend to define class based in terms of income and possesions. Leftists define class based on relationship to the means of production.

[Dimentio]

Class is determined by your relationship to the means of production.

Workers sell their ability to work to the boss.
The boss owns the means of production.

Between these two classes is another class of managers exist to facilitate. These managers are paid more than their labor value is worth usually, but not always. There are also people who own the means of production but still have to work, like small business owners. That is the middle class.

Yes, but people doesn't only identify themselves according to these divisions.

[The Douche]

Yes, but people doesn't only identify themselves according to these divisions.

As I said here:


The government and popular culture tend to define class based in terms of income and possesions. Leftists define class based on relationship to the means of production.

[Luís Henrique]

OK, I put it to you that the Middle Class does not exist....
I put it to you that it is a ruling class con to divide us...

My proof of this, is merely observation.
There are many different interpretations of the meaning of what defines you Working Class or Middle Class... it depends on opinion, granted, but my interpretation of Middle Class is ;Someone who does the work for the ruling class by commanding the working class (or to that effect)...

You are referring to managers, overseers, etc.

Those people, in my reckoning, are working class, but they find it very difficult to identify as such; they usually believe they are middle class or even part of the elite (I remember discussing with a lady, a secretary, a few years ago; she took great pride on being part of an "elite" and was angry when I called her on this, telling her, like, "what do you mean, 'elite'? Since when people in the elite earn 12,000 dollars a year?").

There are people who are more properly called "petty bourgeoisie", who are owners of means of production that don't have enough scale to constitute capital: shop owners, franchise holders, retail merchants, etc. There are also small rentists, who live of renting houses or apartments, or of the interests of a small personal fortune and so don't need to work. These people rarely identify with the working class.

There are people who essentially are "managers" as you describe them but are in fact part of the companies or State hierarchy - this would essentially be high management or senior civil servants - diplomats, directors, etc.

There are also people who are workers but earn a lot more than the average worker: engineers, computer programmers, college professors, etc., whose work depends on relatively rare and specialised skills; those also sometimes have trouble in understanding that their relatively high living standards isn't a result of natural talent, or hard work, etc., but of the higher value of their work - and so tend to have a "middle class" mentality.

Then there are workers properly, usually in the service sector, who for some reason see themselves apart from the working class, either because their labour is improductive and therefore they find difficult to understand they are exploited (bank clerks, security guards, administrative workers in productive companies), or because the nature of their occupation hinders contact with other workers and/or puts them into intimate contact with the upper classes (janitors, domestic employees, etc).


Now, for my definition of Working Class; Someone who works their bollocks off to have a better life and provide for their family and loved ones.....

Pretty much so, but there is a subjective aspect to class identity. Of course if you are a millionaire or a factory owner and believe you are working class you are delusional, just like if you are a plumber and think you are a capitalist in the budding. But there is a huge group of people who are labourers but do not feel themselves as working class, just like a (much smaller) number of managers and small owners who think of themselves as workers.


I know, if i have a mate that has a nice house, and has a couple of kids at private school, but he works his cock off and comes down the pub, with NO snobbery, he is my Working Class Comrade, much more then some twat who doesn’t work, lives in a council flat and shouts NATIONAL FRONT! WOGS OUT WHITES IN!!! in corner shops and Asian folk, that man there aint no mate of mine, and i'm ashamed to say he is Working Class...

Pretty much like that, yes.

Luís Henrique