BNP blame Jews for EDL

[Holden Caulfield]

Its from Hope Not Hate, sorry :s



BNP leader Nick Griffin has claimed that the English Defence League is being manipulated and directed by Zionists to create a race war on the streets of Britain. Trying to distance the BNP from any potential problem, Griffin and his deputy Simon Darby have set out in a audio message their position on the hooligan-based group.

And surprise, surprise – it’s all the fault of the Zionists. Griffin explains how he initially thought the EDL was a State-sponsored honey trap to embarrass the BNP but now he doesn’t believe that even they would do that. In fact, he argues, there are far more sinister forces at work.

It is Simon Darby who begins to point the light on those behind the EDL. “It’s been set up by a powerful organisation,” he tells his leader. “People with the power to manipulate, who are used to manipulating and have the organisational structure, the facility and the financial clout to promote it.”

“Let’s spell it out shall we,” Griffin responds.

Darby laughs, nervously. “Who’s going to do the spelling?”

Obviously not him that's for sure!

“I’m going to spell it out,” his leader adds pompously. He goes on to pin the blame on those responsible.

“Spelling it out in simple terms – you look at the owners at the Daily Express, the Daily Star and their interests. This is a Neo-Con operation. This is a Zionist false flag operation, designed to create a real clash of civilisations right here on our streets between Islam and the rest of us.”

He rants and raves a bit more, before adding: “I’ve no doubt that this is something designed to spark physical clashes between Muslim communities en bloc and the people who are coming in to hold a demonstration. They are out of it. The people who are going to get it in the neck, who are going to get the blame when it all goes wrong, are ordinary white working class communities. The people behind this are pushing for a low level civil war.”

From railing against the support given to the EDL from the Daily Star, he concludes that the real agenda of these Zionists is a civil war on the streets of Britain and “nuke” Arab countries in the Middle East.

Now while Griffin is right to be alarmed and even outraged at the support the Daily Star is giving to the EDL – something we shall be taking up very shortly – his conclusions contain traditional nazi anti-Semitism. Suddenly the actions of one newspaper owner – if indeed it has reached that level – suddenly becomes an international Zionist conspiracy. The actions of a single British newspaper suddenly becomes the work of a "powerful organisation" who are "used to manipulating" and hell bent on a world war.

The Jewish community in Britain is totally alarmed and appalled at the rise of the EDL and the potential conflict it might cause. They are appalled because they have a proud history of opposing racism and fascism. But even if you look at it from a self-interest perspective there is no sense. Why would British Jews want race war on the streets as that would ultimately only lead to increased support for extremist groups – on all sides – and so increased terrorism for which the Jewish community would be a target.

As for the Daily Star I think it simply running an anti-Muslim campaign with an ‘English Nationalist’ agenda. Its support for the EDL follows the platform it has given over the last couple of years to the English Democrats, of which the Star’s TV critic Gary Bushell is a leading member.

Griffin is scared, though not necessarily for the reasons he gives in the interview. The EDL, backed by the Daily Star, is gaining momentum and the BNP could lose out. The hooligans following the EDL are increasingly voicing their contempt for the BNP, believing the fascist party is more interested in good jobs in Brussels rather than defending the white race back home. There is now talk of the EDL turning itself into a political party and the BNP is getting left behind.

And I have to be sceptical over Griffin’s concern for a civil war on the streets. The Oldham riots were triggered by a gang of white men running down a street attacking Asians and their property. At the next BNP meeting, attended by Griffin, these men were given a standing ovation.

If Griffin was serious about opposing the EDL then he would immediately expel any BNP member associated with it. And he could start with booting out a BNP candidate in a forthcoming council by-election in the West Midlands who attended a recent EDL protest!

[ls]

There's some shit on right-wing sites but I'm not gonna give a direct link to it (hint: sf and banger derby's blog if you can be arsed, try and use a proxy of some kind if you do go there eh).

[Raúl Duke]

So will this EDL/BNP relationship cause rifts and problems for the BNP? If it brings the BNP "down"...will the EDL ever be able to raise to the same kind of threat the BNP is/was?

[Dr Mindbender]

wait, i thought the BNP were'nt anti-semites?

[Pogue]

wait, i thought the BNP were'nt anti-semites?

The core motivation of the hardcore, i.e. the main figures in the party, is the anti-semetic belief in a Jewish conspiracy, something they cover up because it isn't a vote winner.

[Holden Caulfield]

There's some shit on right-wing sites but I'm not gonna give a direct link to it (hint: sf and banger derby's blog if you can be arsed, try and use a proxy of some kind if you do go there eh).

ah go on, linking to Stormfront is something I'm massively guilty of myself.
Stormfront is full of lulz


So will this EDL/BNP relationship cause rifts and problems for the BNP? If it brings the BNP "down"...will the EDL ever be able to raise to the same kind of threat the BNP is/was?

I don't think so, the hardcore Nazis hate the EDL for not being racist enough, but the hardcore Nazis hate the BNP for the same reason. The BNP will not have anything to do with the EDL officially, but will directly gain from their activities and will have the violent support fascism often relies on. They will do the BNP's dirty work without tarnishing the BNP.

The EDL will not prosper as a group, and might well die when the media buzz goes, however the 'March for England'/'Casuals United'/'EDL' kind of group will be more of a feature on the far right in time to come I feel. I think they will be at thinks like the anti-Iran demos usually atteneded by the left, and other such things. They will always be bottom feeders, never anything like the BNP.

So I think anyways

[Dr Mindbender]

The core motivation of the hardcore, i.e. the main figures in the party, is the anti-semetic belief in a Jewish conspiracy, something they cover up because it isn't a vote winner.

they claim to have jewish members and regularly wear that 'fact' on their sleeve as if it disqualifies them from being fascists.

[revolt4thewin]

Pokes and prods with 39 1/2ft poll.

[MilitantAnarchist]

God, they'll blaim jews for anything....

[Pogue]

God, they'll blaim jews for anything....

the jews made you say that

[debase89]

well, i never knew any jews so i wouldn't know abou them.

-debase

[Lyev]

Rightist politics seem to be all about a dogmatic scapegoat on a said minority. It seems men like Griffin instill the fear into their followers that they'll become 'a second class citizen in their own country' or some bullshit like that and then they blame this 'second class citizenship' on Jews or blacks or the Polish or gypsies or Muslims because they're stealing our jobs!

[MilitantAnarchist]

I really dont get antisemitism... it makes no sense whatsoever... They'll blame the jews when they go bust, play on a stereotype "Grr it was our accountant Mr Goldberg and his partner Weinstien, grrr, they stole our gold! grrr" and so on...

I really hope they go on Question Time now... I REALLY DO... because when Paxman says 'What about EDL' Nick Griffin will say ITS THOSE DAMN JEWS AT IT AGAIN!!!!
and everyone will see they are fuckwits... problem solved :)

[9]

well, i never knew any jews so i wouldn't know abou them.

-debase

We're sinister people, don't mess with us. ;)


Rightist politics seem to be all about a dogmatic scapegoat on a said minority. It seems men like Griffin instill the fear into their followers that they'll become 'a second class citizen in their own country' or some bullshit like that and then they blame this 'second class citizenship' on Jews or blacks or the Polish or gypsies or Muslims because they're stealing our jobs!

Haha, that last sentence was like one of those "which of the following does not belong" questions on cognitive abilities tests. I don't know how things are in the UK, but I'll take an educated guess and say that they probably aren't so much different than things in the US in terms of the prosperity/assimilation of the respective minority communities. In which case, there really would be no popular sentiment of "Jews taking peoples' jobs" in the sense that there is with regard to other immigrant communities. When was the last time a significant wave of Jewish immigrants swept the streets of Britain? I'm guessing its been several decades.
The reason anti-Semitism differs from other forms of racism/xenophobia is because it is almost exclusively intertwined with conspiracy theories. Once you understand this, it isn't hard to grasp at all that the BNP might turn to this. And with "Zionists" being a handy synonym for Jews in the minds of many, I'm not so convinced that the people who think waves of other immigrants are snatching their jobs would be too inclined toward critical thinking to accept such a bogus claim of "the 'Zionists' controlling this or that aspect of finance/government/media/etc".

[Pogue]

they claim to have jewish members and regularly wear that 'fact' on their sleeve as if it disqualifies them from being fascists.

Thats how covert it is, its the main motivation of the hardcore, always has been, but they are hardly consistent or principled, they use the divide and rule both as a means and also as an ends into itself, such are the complexities of fascism.

[1968]

Video of black and white masked EDL members burning a Nazi flag and press conference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKmzNpUBM4&feature=player_embedded

MAD!

"National Front are not welcome at our demo ..."

[Percy Nell Capacity]

Thats how covert it is, its the main motivation of the hardcore, always has been, but they are hardly consistent or principled, they use the divide and rule both as a means and also as an ends into itself, such are the complexities of fascism.
absolutely; fascism is one of the hardest ideologies to pin down. On the accounts of fascism given in most politics textbooks you'd have to include things like theocratic dictatorships and Stalinist countries - full state control of the lives of its subjects, or attempts at it. When talking about fascism in the West, we have to get pretty vague unfortunately; the EDL are not fascist by any means, they have no aspirations to create a fascist state. BUT - what they do share with fascist movements like the BNP and the more overtly racist groups (NF, RVF, BPP, C18[lol],ENR) is enough to put them in that camp. They march with the obvious desire to stir up racial conflict, and they fucking take part in racial conflict. They scrap with gangs of asians whilst yelling racial abuse. On the basis of racism and hysterical nationalism, its pretty straightforward to anyone who knows the UK far-right that they part of that dynamic. Burning a nazi flag, having black members - so what? Black people 'paki bashed' in the past, there's loads of racial violence between minorities, and you can hear anti-immigrant hysteria from people of all colours. The EDL aren't the BNP in disguise, but then the BNP don't march round trying to start race riots these days anyway.

They've met each other half way - EDL don't do politics and BNP don't do race riots.

[Pogue]

absolutely; fascism is one of the hardest ideologies to pin down. On the accounts of fascism given in most politics textbooks you'd have to include things like theocratic dictatorships and Stalinist countries - full state control of the lives of its subjects, or attempts at it. When talking about fascism in the West, we have to get pretty vague unfortunately; the EDL are not fascist by any means, they have no aspirations to create a fascist state. BUT - what they do share with fascist movements like the BNP and the more overtly racist groups (NF, RVF, BPP, C18[lol],ENR) is enough to put them in that camp. They march with the obvious desire to stir up racial conflict, and they fucking take part in racial conflict. They scrap with gangs of asians whilst yelling racial abuse. On the basis of racism and hysterical nationalism, its pretty straightforward to anyone who knows the UK far-right that they part of that dynamic. Burning a nazi flag, having black members - so what? Black people 'paki bashed' in the past, there's loads of racial violence between minorities, and you can hear anti-immigrant hysteria from people of all colours. The EDL aren't the BNP in disguise, but then the BNP don't march round trying to start race riots these days anyway.

They've met each other half way - EDL don't do politics and BNP don't do race riots.

In the opinions of myself and a number of other UK Anti-fascists the EDL are fascist mate, they have the dynamic, membership and role of fascism.

The burning of the flag and black stuff is again, just a masquerade and also shows the lack of coherency within the group. Also its to do with how black people are not really the main target for right-wing hysteria at the moment (although black male youths in particular are demonised).

[Percy Nell Capacity]

"National Front are not welcome at our demo ..."
not if they say they're NF maybe, but how the fuck would they know otherwise? BNP *and* BPP members have attended their demo's, as well as the English National Resistence bell-ends. What, do the EDL have a card check before wandering from pub to pub, having a bit of chant then having a scrap if the cops aren't on top of things?

[1968]

not if they say they're NF maybe, but how the fuck would they know otherwise? BNP *and* BPP members have attended their demo's, as well as the English National Resistence bell-ends. What, do the EDL have a card check before wandering from pub to pub, having a bit of chant then having a scrap if the cops aren't on top of things?

totally agree. just quoting from the video.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I can't wait to get a chance to travel to england, I'll shit on the doorstep of every BNP member.

[Holden Caulfield]

I can't wait to get a chance to travel to england, I'll shit on the doorstep of every BNP member.

don't make such posts in future please comrade

[Percy Nell Capacity]

In the opinions of myself and a number of other UK Anti-fascists the EDL are fascist mate, they have the dynamic, membership and role of fascism.
some of, some of... I'd be hesitant to call an EDL member a 'fascist'. I don't think they are personally, though i have lisetd what they hold in common with the overal fascist dynamic, like you say. I also think literally "calling them a fascist" is an own goal anyway - its a bit of a silly term spoken aloud. Just call them thick racist ****s.

Not that i'm saying you go round yelling faaaaascist at demo's, just saying.

[Pogue]

some of, some of... I'd be hesitant to call an EDL member a 'fascist'. I don't think they are personally, though i have lisetd what they hold in common with the overal fascist dynamic, like you say. I also think literally "calling them a fascist" is an own goal anyway - its a bit of a silly term spoken aloud. Just call them thick racist ****s.

Not that i'm saying you go round yelling faaaaascist at demo's, just saying.

Well the same way I don't think every single BNP member is a 'fascist' in the sense that they hold political beleifs which in isolation would fit under the banner of fascism as defined historically, but the fact is their organisation and the role it performs is fascist.

[heiss93]

I thought the BNP was pro-Israel and considers Jews whites?

[scarletghoul]

don't make such posts in future please comrade
I don't think it was a genuine threat, Holden.

[Melbourne Lefty]

The core motivation of the hardcore, i.e. the main figures in the party, is the anti-semetic belief in a Jewish conspiracy, something they cover up because it isn't a vote winner.

I have to say I believed that Griffin had really given up the fantasy, but it seems that once a crazed nutbag always a crazed nutbag.

The "Inner circle" of the BNP apparently still do believe in conspiracy theories. I am seriously amazed and not a bit delighted!

I firmly believe that conspiracy theorists will eventually slip up and reveal their crazed nuttieness for all to see, and despite Griffins slippery nature he or those close to him WILL publicly reveal just how bat shit crazy they are.

[Melbourne Lefty]

I thought the BNP was pro-Israel and considers Jews whites?


I would estimate from their supporting websites and message boards that the vast majority of the BNP is pro-Israel.

Something about the EDL has gotten Griffin and the BNP Bigwigs seriously spooked, it happened right after that Daily Star article.

[Holden Caulfield]

^ Alot of people fear another C18 style honey trap probably. and with a lot of BNP members in and around the EDL it could leave the BNP top brass with blushing faces, especially when Griffin has his 'normal democratic party' act down to a tee