Irish Literature

[Pogue]

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2928/thickpaddies.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/thickpaddies.jpg/)


I'm particularly interested in alot of Irish literature, both because of my Irish heritage and also because I find it interesting that such a small country has such a huge contribution to world literature. The rich literary tradition also dispels the racist stereotypes held by moronics the world over of 'thick paddies'.

I can only really claim to really have any knowledge of Oscar Wilde and Shane MacGowan but I'm going to be reading some of Behan's stuff, his autobiography and the like, but I think the poetry of MacGowan is enough to really appreciate the Irish contribution to literature.

[Random Precision]

I've found the works of Flann O'Brien to be a hidden treasure in Irish literature, especially At Swim Two Birds and The Third Policeman. Much more distinctly Irish and amusing than the more obvious stuff by James Joyce, Samuel Beckett, WB Yeats etc.

[Pogue]

I can't remember where I've heard that name before, but I'll look into that. Thanks for your contribution.

[ComradeOm]

I can't remember where I've heard that name before, but I'll look into that. Thanks for your contribution.O'Brian got a spike in exposure a few years ago when The Third Policeman made an appearance on Lost. Since then there's been something of a 'rediscovery' of his work and, while still far from a household name, a growing recognition of his literary stature

[Pogue]

oh ok cool thanks.

[ComradeOm]

Of course I should probably mention that I know very little about Irish literature myself, or any literature for that matter. The only recent Irish works that I can remember enjoying at school was Seamus Deane's Reading in the Dark (think Angela's Ashes without the morbid depression) and the odd Heaney poem

The real exceptions was the old folklore that I was told as kid. Especially the stories of Cu Chulainn which were set in my corner of the world. A particular favourite was the Táin Bó Cuailnge (http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T301035/index.html) (Cattle Raid of Cooley (http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/ulster.html#CattleRaid)) which is literally the stuff of legends

[MilitantAnarchist]

Check out Roddy Doyle... i have a book by him (not read yet) A Star Called Henry, is suppose to be an awesome book... I think he wrote The Commitments, aint read it but the film is fucking ace

[brigadista]

try Strumpet City by James Plunkett -novel about Dublin [being the strumpet city of the title] during the 1907 - 1914 lockout

[Random Precision]

Can't believe I forgot it- Dubliners by James Joyce. In my opinion the best product of Ireland, even over John Lennon.

[Jimmie Higgins]

O'Brian got a spike in exposure a few years ago when The Third Policeman made an appearance on Lost. Since then there's been something of a 'rediscovery' of his work and, while still far from a household name, a growing recognition of his literary stature

Ha, that's why I read it last year. Wow, a network TV show actually got me to read something - that hasn't happened since "reading rainbow".

Random Precision: John Lennon is a product of Ireland?

Right-on about Joyce though - "Dub" and "Ulysses" really do live up to the hype... for some reason pretentious long-ass lit from the early 20th century work for me whereas post-war stuff bores me if it's over 300 pages.

I haven't read or seen much Irish theater except for Shaw which is good stuff.

[Random Precision]

Ha, that's why I read it last year. Wow, a network TV show actually got me to read something - that hasn't happened since "reading rainbow".

It also got me to read The Brothers Karamazov, VALIS and Everything that Rises Must Converge. ;)


Random Precision: John Lennon is a product of Ireland?

His father was Liverpudlian Irish and his mother was at least part Irish IIRC.


Right-on about Joyce though - "Dub" and "Ulysses" really do live up to the hype... for some reason pretentious long-ass lit from the early 20th century work for me whereas post-war stuff bores me if it's over 300 pages.

I still have not read Ulysses. "The Dead" is my favorite short story and given that I found Portrait rather lackluster when put aside that and some other stories like "Sisters", "Araby" and "A Painful Case", I'm scared to death that Ulysses for all the hype will not match up as well.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Oscar Wilde is just plain bad-ass - I'll have to check out that biography sometime.


It also got me to read The Brothers Karamazov, VALIS and Everything that Rises Must Converge. ;)Yeah it got my partner to read Umberto Eco, but I don't think I'm touching that.


His father was Liverpudlian Irish and his mother was at least part Irish IIRC.Ok, I see.


I still have not read Ulysses. "The Dead" is my favorite short story and given that I found Portrait rather lackluster when put aside that and some other stories like "Sisters", "Araby" and "A Painful Case", I'm scared to death that Ulysses for all the hype will not match up as well.The Dead is great - John Huston made a movie based on that story, but I haven't seen it.

When you read Ulysses, you might have the same experience I did - you'll start reading it and think that it doesn't live up to the reputation - then if you keep plugging away you will start to hate it and the characters - then after a while you won't be able to get it out of your head. It's a funny experience because it's kind of how Dedalus/Joyce feels about Dublin, and everything else in his life.

It's like a cubist painting rather than a book and it skips around and shows practically every style of writing imaginable: there's even a chapter that starts with anglo-saxon style poetry, moves on to classical-style poetry, then shakespeare and eventually ends up in the style of a crass american sales-pitch: the death of language I guess.

If you can't stick with it (it's long and we live in busy times) at least skip to the last 10 pages or so... there's a monalogue that's really amazing.

Anyone have any ideas about why literature from this period in Irealnd is so rich? I guess that the combination of the whole UK late-victorian and then modernist movement with the political situation in Irealand created the right sort of atmosphere. From what I've heard the theater in Ireland was pretty overtly liberation and revolution oriented in the late 1800s through independance. But if someone has a fuller picture of why Ireland, why then - I'd like to hear it.

[Pogue]

So Ulysses does live up to the hype then? I might have to give it a look. I heard Dubliners is good.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Yeah, better to start with the Dubliners - or Portrait of an artist which is sort of the prequel of Ulysses anyway. Ulysses is tough and I've read shit by Gramsci. I usually read novels straight through - maybe pick up a dictionary from time to time - but when I read Ulysses I had to get a little study guide just to keep things straight in my head. So I'd recommend it to anyone, but also just know it takes some time and a lot of it just isn't going to make sense.

I've never read it but I've heard that Finnegan's Wake is near impossible to get through though.

[Pogue]

Yeah, better to start with the Dubliners - or Portrait of an artist which is sort of the prequel of Ulysses anyway. Ulysses is tough and I've read shit by Gramsci. I usually read novels straight through - maybe pick up a dictionary from time to time - but when I read Ulysses I had to get a little study guide just to keep things straight in my head. So I'd recommend it to anyone, but also just know it takes some time and a lot of it just isn't going to make sense.

I've never read it but I've heard that Finnegan's Wake is near impossible to get through though.

whats tough about finnegans wake and ulysses?

[Dr Mindbender]

I had the pleasure of watching a dramatic adaption of 'Translations' by Brian Friel, a heartbreaking story of English colonialism and their attempts to eliminate celtic culture and the gaelic language.

I also studied the book for my A Level.

[Random Precision]

whats tough about finnegans wake and ulysses?

The trouble with Finnegans Wake is that it's a highly symbolic (drawing parallels with the Biblical story of Cain and Abel, Egyptian mythology, Irish mythology, and the philosophy of Giambatista Vico, plus much more), stream of consciousness narrative that's written almost entirely in early 20th century Irish slang and also a fair number of words that James Joyce either invented himself (which are then often slammed together or used to form multi-level puns) or took from other languages. So even if you manage to understand a sentence when you first read it, it's likely that you're missing two or three more levels of meaning. Thanks very much Mr Joyce, but I prefer to keep my puzzles and books separate if it's all the same to you. I mean there have been books written on deciphering it, but I don't really feel like it merits the time you'd have to put into it.

[Pogue]

Aha, can imagine thats a bit of a mission.

[PRC-UTE]

Of course I should probably mention that I know very little about Irish literature myself, or any literature for that matter. The only recent Irish works that I can remember enjoying at school was Seamus Deane's Reading in the Dark (think Angela's Ashes without the morbid depression) and the odd Heaney poem

The real exceptions was the old folklore that I was told as kid. Especially the stories of Cu Chulainn which were set in my corner of the world. A particular favourite was the Táin Bó Cuailnge (http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/T301035/index.html) (Cattle Raid of Cooley (http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/ulster.html#CattleRaid)) which is literally the stuff of legends

ah, the Táin...one of my favourties when I was young. I also loved the stories of Fionn Mac Cumhaill.

Liam O'Flaherty you might like, Pogue. Was a communist IIRC, and wrote about war and revolution a bit. His best works were in English, but he wrote in Irish as well. kind of a real life communist/anticolonial revolutionary and romantic at the same time.

I recall reading a bit of Heaney, he was decent yet too sentimental for my tastes.

Behan is good as well and came from a communist family.

I see someone mentioned A Star Called Henry.

oh, another author that I'd recommend is Sabastian Barry.

[Pogue]

quality, i am loving all of these reccomendations

[Pogue]

i actually read alot of the ancient irish mythology when i was on holiday, and a bit of history.

[Bilan]

Just read Oscar Wilde. you'll turn out like me.

[brigadista]

Just read Oscar Wilde. you'll turn out like me.

his Mum was a Fenian....:)

[Pogue]

Just read Oscar Wilde. you'll turn out like me.

your the worst kind of poser

[Vanguard1917]

It wouldn't count as Irish literature, but check out James T. Farrell for stories about the Irish immigrant community in Chicago in the first half of the 20th century. The Studs Lonigan trilogy is great.