Rage Against New Labour

[communard resolution]

Hoping to see many of you at the anti-Labour Party protest in Brighton this Sunday!

Here's a place to discuss, praise, or criticise the event before and after.


It should go without saying, but: absolute discretion, no personal information! No "I was the guy with the Che t-shirt and short hair standing next to the speaker van"-isms.

[Dr Mindbender]

dont suppose Zack De La Rocha will be headlining this one? :D

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Any links?

[communard resolution]

Any links?

Here's one

http://www.righttowork.org.uk/

Here's another

http://www.swp.org.uk/

I'm sure there's more, but this should suffice for basic info.

[Pogue]

This was advertised time ago. They were hyping this since July. I was asked to come along by some Trots. I'm not going to go, already gone to a naughty demo in Brighton (tick it off the list :D) and I don't think this will be very good. I don't see what the point is really, its so poorly targetted really.

[Holden Caulfield]

^ if you ever say naughty again I'll ban you

[Module]

Flyers for this are plastered all over my college. In the classrooms, in the library, in the corridors...
I might go check it out... but like Pogue I doubt how meaningful or effective it's going to be.

[Pogue]

More SWP stuntism, lets get a big demo, do some shit, declare victory, cheer, go home.

Waste of time.

[communard resolution]

More SWP stuntism, lets get a big demo, do some shit, declare victory, cheer, go home.

Do you mean to say that demos in general are a waste of time? If no, what makes this particular demo a waste of time as opposed to others?

Is the fact that the SWP are crucially involved in this the reason why you reject it, or do you objectively consider this particular protest to be irrellevant?


Waste of time.Suggestions for alternative strategies?

My five cents:

People have been moaning at the SWP's obsessing over the BNP and 'fascism' while neglecting the main enemy, the bourgeoisie and their neo-liberal henchmen, for a long time. I have been one of the moaners.

With this protest, the SWP are finally getting around to aim at the roots of the problem, not at the symptoms. I applaud them for this.

[Pogue]

Do you mean to say that demos in general are a waste of time? If no, what makes this particular demo a waste of time as opposed to others?

Is the fact that the SWP are crucially involved in this the reason why you reject it, or do you objectively consider this particular protest to be irrellevant?

Suggestions for alternative strategies?

My five cents:

People have been moaning at the SWP's obsessing over the BNP and 'fascism' while neglecting the main enemy, the bourgeoisie and their neo-liberal henchmen, for a long time. I have been one of the moaners.

With this protest, the SWP are finally getting around to aim at the roots of the problem, not at the symptoms. I applaud them for this.

I simply don't see what they aim to acheive. Who will attend this demonstration? The sorts of people who attend every other left wing demonstration. Its not particularly targetted, it doesn't focus the anger. Its passive, as most SWP intiated things are, just like STWC marches and the like.

I think demonstrations are good as acts of solidarity, for example the Palestine demonstrations, I went on all of them because it showed people cared and also mobilised people who would not normally attend leftist demonstrations, i.e. people who simply had family in Palestine. As I said, who will come on this demonstration? Rage against Labour - OK, what are you raging about? What do you want Labour to do? What do they hope to acheive, what are the demands?

I've been on too many passive demonstrations organised by the SWP to really have any hope for what this will do in the long term.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Let's be completely honest here, this is just an excuse to sell some papers and get some publicity. I've seen a poster for "Rage Against New Labour" (http://www.righttowork.org.uk/docs/lab_demo_a3_poster.pdf) and it doesn't mention anywhere that it is being held by the Socialist Workers Party, in fact it specifically avoids doing so. I can only assume that SWP are not particularly bothered about mobilising other progressives and just want to take advantage of the fact that people are angry about Gordon Brown's failings.

Here's what Socialist Worker claim to be demanding:


People before profit
Fight for every job
No to cuts, defend public services
Jobs for all, £100/week minimum for the unemployed
Support workers fighting back

So basically this is just a protest against the job market and Labour's policies relating to the unemployed, meanwhile garnering support for their latest front group called "Fight for the Right to Work". Of all of the SWP's pathetic outings and whims, this has to be one of the worst.

[communard resolution]

Let's be completely honest here, this is just an excuse to sell some papers and get some publicity.

Your comrades of the CPGB-ML were there, selling papers and trying to get some publicity. I take it you condemn them too for participating in a publicity event and for "taking advantage of the fact that people are angry about Gordon Brown's failings"?



I've seen a poster for "Rage Against New Labour" (http://www.righttowork.org.uk/docs/lab_demo_a3_poster.pdf) and it doesn't mention anywhere that it is being held by the Socialist Workers Party, in fact it specifically avoids doing so. I can only assume that SWP are not particularly bothered about mobilising other progressivesPogue criticises the protest for only attracting Leftists that always go to protests. You criticise the SWP for trying to reach out beyond Leftists and "taking advantage of people's anger". The former criticism I understand, though I'm uncertain as to what could be done differently unless Pogue provides some alternative ideas for how to build a mass movement. Your criticism, meanwhile, is just beyond me. Isn't this just what socialists are supposed to do - raise consciousness and mobilise among working people who are getting fucked over?

Also, I understand the protest was SWP dominated, but set up by several groups rather than exclusively by the SWP.


and just want to take advantage of the fact that people are angry about Gordon Brown's failings.I'm not sure what you mean by "taking advantage".


So basically this is just a protest against the job market and Labour's policies relating to the unemployedAnd your problem with protesting against Labour's neoliberal policies is?


"Fight for the Right to Work".I have a lot of criticisms of the SWP, but here's a campaign that actually focuses on the most pressing working class issues rather than fighting against an imaginary fascist takeover. I'm inclined to join the campaign.


Of all of the SWP's pathetic outings and whims, this has to be one of the worst.Why?

[bricolage]

Also, I understand the protest was SWP dominated, but set up by several groups rather than exclusively by the SWP.

True, although three of them were SWP front groups.

[robbo203]

With this protest, the SWP are finally getting around to aim at the roots of the problem, not at the symptoms. I applaud them for this.

Really? I thought the root of the problem was capitalism, not nu labour. Capitalist outfits like the labour Party which the SWP not so long were asking us to vote for but "without delusions" (whatever that may mean) are just baiscally puppets on a string. I say ignore the bastards. Dont give then the oxegyn of publicity

[Pogue]

Your comrades of the CPGB-ML were there, selling papers and trying to get some publicity. I take it you condemn them too for participating in a publicity event and for "taking advantage of the fact that people are angry about Gordon Brown's failings"?


Pogue criticises the protest for only attracting Leftists that always go to protests. You criticise the SWP for trying to reach out beyond Leftists and "taking advantage of people's anger". The former criticism I understand, though I'm uncertain as to what could be done differently unless Pogue provides some alternative ideas for how to build a mass movement. Your criticism, meanwhile, is just beyond me. Isn't this just what socialists are supposed to do - raise consciousness and mobilise among working people who are getting fucked over?

Also, I understand the protest was SWP dominated, but set up by several groups rather than exclusively by the SWP.

I'm not sure what you mean by "taking advantage".

And your problem with protesting against Labour's neoliberal policies is?

I have a lot of criticisms of the SWP, but here's a campaign that actually focuses on the most pressing working class issues rather than fighting against an imaginary fascist takeover. I'm inclined to join the campaign.

Why?

I don't think mass movements are built around holding specialised demos that only people who already have a degree of political conciousness will go on. Most people who disagree with Labour will just think 'I'll vote Tory next election', its only leftists who recognise that Labour is part of the neo-liberal agenda who will attend this demo. I don't think we build a mass movement in the political sphere, I think this is done in the economic and community organising sphere, where people actually give a shit about whats going on.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Your comrades of the CPGB-ML were there, selling papers and trying to get some publicity. I take it you condemn them too for participating in a publicity event and for "taking advantage of the fact that people are angry about Gordon Brown's failings"?
Actually no, I did not say that anyone who attends this is a mug for buying into SWP's crap, however, I would not be against a total boycott of SWP stunts like these. So I'm kind of stuck in the middle.

Pogue criticises the protest for only attracting Leftists that always go to protests. You criticise the SWP for trying to reach out beyond Leftists and "taking advantage of people's anger". The former criticism I understand, though I'm uncertain as to what could be done differently unless Pogue provides some alternative ideas for how to build a mass movement. Your criticism, meanwhile, is just beyond me. Isn't this just what socialists are supposed to do - raise consciousness and mobilise among working people who are getting fucked over?
Quite correct, I'm all for mobilising working people (or anyone, for that matter), but I don't think that this is SWP's primary concern, or at least, it isn't for the right reasons. I see Rage Against New Labour as a stunt targeted at anyone and everyone who believes in remotely progressive politics, or anyone who thinks they do, social democrats, green liberals, etc. Pogue says it is targeted at the left and only the left. Both are valid criticisms and I do not know who got closer to the truth there out of myself and Pogue. One thing however, seems for sure, Rage Against New Labour is misguided, and meaningless. I personally do not believe for one minute that SWP are interested in mobilising the workers so that they can have build up support, have a revolution, and overthrow the capitalist system, if this were the case I would be a lot less critical of them. In fact I think that events like these are designed only to garner interest in other SWP front groups, and to sell papers of course.

Also, I understand the protest was SWP dominated, but set up by several groups rather than exclusively by the SWP.
Hey, it's not my fault some people can't see past SWP's facade.

I'm not sure what you mean by "taking advantage".
Like I said, I think SWP are only trying to further their own goals, not the goals of the working class.

And your problem with protesting against Labour's neoliberal policies is?
I don't have one, but it should be done right. We are socialists, let's act like it, we need demonstrations to highlight the fact that we want an end to the current economic system, the focal point needs to be the principles of socialism. What we don't need is to get a few thousand students out onto the streets of Brighton for a street party. Alright so I'm generalising, but be honest, how many hearts and minds did the protest win over? How many people went home with a new found class consciousness? How many people went home with the desire to develop one?

I have a lot of criticisms of the SWP, but here's a campaign that actually focuses on the most pressing working class issues rather than fighting against an imaginary fascist takeover. I'm inclined to join the campaign.
You know what, I hope you're right, and if you are then I will be joining you in the campaign, but I have doubts, Comrade. The premise of the campaign is positive, but I don't think it will amount to much, I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong though.

Why?
See above.

[RHIZOMES]

This was advertised time ago. They were hyping this since July. I was asked to come along by some Trots. I'm not going to go, already gone to a naughty demo in Brighton (tick it off the list :D) and I don't think this will be very good. I don't see what the point is really, its so poorly targetted really.

Yeah fascists whom noone likes, vs. the capitalist Labour party who have the actual ability to deport "illegals" on dodgy racist circumstances. Fight both and see how they're interlinked.