Michael Moore brings talk of Capitalism to the mainstream

[KurtFF8]

Source (http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=110618)

I wrote this for the blog over at PoFo, what do you think?


It's certainly not every day that TV spots that are overtly critical of the capitalist mode of production that include a soundbite of someone saying "people will eventually rebel" or interviews on the main TV news and entertainment shows discuss whether or not Capitalism is evil or not.

Michael Moore has accomplished this feat through his new film "Capitalism: A Love Story" which serves as a cinematic comedic critique of Capitalism. This week he's been on a media tour, from the Democracy Now! to Larry King discussing how he feels that Capitalism is an undemocratic system that needs to be replaced with economic democracy for "the people."

Some on the left are quite quick to dismiss this film and this coverage of it as another "liberal stunt" of Moore's, but the more I see him talk, the more I'm convinced that he is certainly a fellow leftist. He was even asked by Amy Goodman on today's Democracy Now! (http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/24/after_20_years_of_filmmaking_on) whether he was a Socialist or not, and he simply brushed off the question as irrelevant. (He had previously (http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/31/academy_award_winning_filmmaker_michael_moore) suggested the workers have ownership over the means of production, but in a tongue and cheek way that could be interpreted a number of ways).

This criticisms of Moore seem to be quite premature and based on the fact that he has previously seemed to many to be a reformist liberal who isn't "revolutionary enough." If one is to listen to Moore directly, he claims that he has always felt this way about Capitalism and that the current crisis has given him an opportunity to "finally talk about it" (DN! Interview). Even if this were not true and his previous stance was indeed that of a liberal reformist, why would we not welcome this new change of mind of his? Is that not the entire point of the left..to open people's eyes to the system they live in? I can certainly understand the skepticism about this film before it has come out, but the more I see him talk about it and the more interviews I see certainly show that this film is a good thing for the left. Its' central thesis is that Capitalism is an "evil" that cannot be reformed.

I've yet to see the film, and what I plan on doing when I do (and I suggest this to other leftists who are involved in organizations) is to go distribute a flyer or two about an upcoming event or at least an organization that people can become aware of. If people really do get "riled up" after seeing the film and we can present them with an actual venue to express/take action, why not do it?

[pierrotlefou]

The theater I work at is getting it. Someone told me he is encouraging people to sneak in. I may have to do my part and let them.

[Jonnydraft]

I haven't seen it yet, but from the reviews I have read, I am not sure I could stomach watching it in its entirety. From what I can gather, Moore is simply calling for "capitalism with a face"; a tired argument that overlooks the inherent contradictions of a capitalist mode of production.

Though some may argue that a public critique such as this is still a positive, I may argue the opposite. If this movie is as I suspect, it will only further reinforce the notion that we have seemingly reached the final "economic epoch", and that corrupt people are to blame, not the system itself.

Naturally, any such criticism is premature, but I would appreciate it if those who watch it relay their thoughts.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

Well I plan on seeing it so I'll definitely give an analysis.

[leochaos]

hi,
everything can happen,so MM may have become a leftist.
Let's watch the movie and then we may comment.
But i think that it would be a good idea to use "alternative" ways to watch it.
If there is something I really dislike is when people make (a lot) of money in the name of justice etc
I just watched a documentary about an italian actor,now dead: Gian Maria Volonte. He refused to work for hollywood,did a number of really good movies("Sacco and Vanzetti" may be one known outside Europe),he partecipated to extreme left demonstrations,helped one comrade of Autonomia Operaia to avoid arrest and escape to France etc etc
There are a number of "famous" artists who did try to use their gift to the advantage of the working class,oppressed minorities,even revolutionary groups.
MM is not one of them.His silly movies may point out to bad things happening in the USA,but this is it.I am sure that at Democracy now he can play the "leftist".no wonder there,he is a(lousy)actor.

[Led Zeppelin]

I haven't seen it yet, but from the reviews I have read, I am not sure I could stomach watching it in its entirety. From what I can gather, Moore is simply calling for "capitalism with a face"; a tired argument that overlooks the inherent contradictions of a capitalist mode of production.

I haven't seen the movie yet myself, I'm just basing this off Michael Moore's interviews, but he isn't calling for capitalism with a human face.

For example, check out this interview he gives to Wolf Blitzer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqRvpBqEgCE&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIiZJ5axu80&feature=channel_page

This interview is also interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8H_sdIlNwo&feature=channel

When asked what should replace capitalism, he says; "Democracy". He then goes on to explain what he means by that when Wolf asks; "Aren't we already living in a democracy?" He means economic democracy, and specifically mentions democracy in the workplace.

Now the idea of economic democracy, of workers' democracy, is the basis of Marxist ideology. Sure, Moore doesn't want to call it "communism", and has decided to use the neologism "democracy" because it sounds better, but he's still referring to the same thing. Workers should control how their workplace, the economy in general, is run.

Note that when Wolf tries to go on the point of "we're already a democracy" Moore repeats some of the Marxist criticism of bourgeois democracy; just because we get to vote once in two or four years doesn't mean that that's democracy. The capitalists have enormous wealth behind them which they use to pervert the will of the masses, etc.

I have to see the movie before I can make a complete analysis of his views, but judging from what I'm hearing in his interviews he's definitely becoming more and more radical. The logical conclusion of his current stance is calling for revolution, because economic democracy can never be "reformed" into the system.

[GPDP]

In this day and age of far-right propaganda permeating every facet of our society, I'll gladly accept a more radical Moore putting forward a leftist alternative amongst all the shit-flinging. He's too big (no pun intended) and well-known to be ignored and cast out of mainstream discourse the way Chomsky and others have been, so I welcome his efforts to make a compelling case against capitalism, however reformist he may be.

[mykittyhasaboner]

He may be leaning to the left a bit more but he still calls bailouts and government intervention 'socialism'. See the interview with the douche bag Colbert. He may be criticizing capitalism but if he calls the banks being bailed out "socialism" then it's probably counter-productive.

That said it's good to see capitalism being questioned in the mainstream. Kudos to Moore for that one.

[KC]

I haven't seen it yet, but from the reviews I have read, I am not sure I could stomach watching it in its entirety. From what I can gather, Moore is simply calling for "capitalism with a face"; a tired argument that overlooks the inherent contradictions of a capitalist mode of production.

I wrote this in another thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/capitalism-love-story-t117192/index.html?p=1550615#post1550615):


This movie is great ammunition for us. I think it is going to open up a much larger debate about the state of capitalism, much like how Sicko opened up a debate about the state of the American health care system. The point is that while Moore is going to probably offer up some very good criticisms of capitalism, he has already stated that his solution is a very vague form of "democratization" and not capitalism or socialism.

Our role then is to point out where he is right, point out where he is wrong, and put forward our views on the situation.

We all know that Moore is an idiot, but that is completely beside the point, and anybody that writes this off because of that is not taking into consideration what this film will actually offer the revolutionary left or what effects in general it will have in opening up discussion about capitalism itself. That has very profound consequences and we can really benefit from it if we actually put effort into utilizing it for the spread of our position.

EDIT: And I think this film is coming out at the absolutely most opportune time for us. It is coming out right after the first wave of this economic crisis and right before the second wave that is just starting right now. People are starting to question the validity of the system already due to the first wave of this crisis, and if we can utilize this to spread our views as far and wide as possible, by the time this second wave really hits we will have made enormous progress. I think that this really gives us a chance to rebound from the impotence that has plagued the left throughout the last couple months of this crisis.

[jake williams]

Can this be merged with the other Michael Moore thread?

[RadioRaheem84]

Well hopefully Michael Moore will spur up the left to mobilize. Half of the left is enchanted with Obama and the other half are on chat forums writing about how we're going to mobilize!

We need a leftist Glenn Beck who tells it how its is. The right has totally hijacked the proletariat of this nation with a right wing populist mantra that is not only idiotic but downright scary!

I support this film regardless of Moore's soft stance because it will likely stir up debate.

[RadioRaheem84]

Woah, just saw the last video and I am ticked off. WTF, is with the enchantment over the President? Why do people insist that Obama is going to fix this mess with the economic team that STARTED the entire mess to begin with?!! Why do people like Moore swoon over this guy and trust that his "heart is in the right place"?

The reason why the left isn't mobilized is because they're too trusting of this man and hope that he will fix this mess when they know deep down he won't. When a man appoints a slew of Wall Street moguls into his administration, supports a massive bailout, and sells out his promises of a public option for health care, you know that man cannot be trusted to fix a falling economy. Yet, people still give him the benefit of the doubt. These inane liberals continue to flock to him like he is a messiah. Give it up! :mad:
:rant over:

[KurtFF8]

He may be leaning to the left a bit more but he still calls bailouts and government intervention 'socialism'. See the interview with the douche bag Colbert. He may be criticizing capitalism but if he calls the banks being bailed out "socialism" then it's probably counter-productive.

That said it's good to see capitalism being questioned in the mainstream. Kudos to Moore for that one.

He was talking about "socialism for the rich, capitalismfor the poor." This is something that many leftists point out as the irony of the right wing rhetoric being used. (And I think many, including Moore, know that bailing out the banks isn't actually socialism).

Also, Colbert on his show is a character.

[FreeFocus]

It's good that he's getting people thinking about replacing capitalism, but in his interviews he's still employing base American exceptionalist rhetoric and misusing the word "socialism."

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I dislike the fact that the semantics of his interviews seem to be the main concern. I believe it's refreshing to see someone -anyone!- make a documentary about how the economy has affected the lives of millions. And not only that, but anger from 'the left' and most certainly not from the right, who have been using this crisis as an opportunity for all types of xenophobic and, quite frankly, ridiculously hysterical rantings about how the Communist President is the problem (tea parties, universal health insurance = govt death squads, etc etc).

I agree with KC completely, though I'm not expecting any tangible results just yet. But it is very nice to see the question put out there, and for the millions of moviegoers to realize there may be another option out there. Fucking finally, red or blue is such a boring contest.


And please don't come on here after watching the film and tell us that Moore is a fake socialist and that the movie is bourgeois propaganda. Thanks in advance.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

Michael Moore just needs to get off Obama's dick and he'd be an okay guy.

[mikelepore]

I find this interesting - Michael Moore seems to have memorized his answers to eliminate the need to pause. On three programs within the past few days - Jay Leno, The View, and Real Time with Bill Maher - he said exactly the same phrases: "the top one percent own more financial wealth than the bottom 95 percent combined." ... "it's like one guy takes nine slices of pie, and the other nine guys have to share one slice." That's a pretty good start, I think. But it's too bad he ruins it by saying "It's not about capitalism versus socialism. It's about democracy. People have the right to decide how the economy will be run." It's disappointing that he tries to fool people with "it's not about capitalism versus socialism", which comes across as a form of calling the audience stupid. It makes me feel embarrassed for him.

[Jimmie Higgins]

KC pretty much nailed it. Moore is not a revolutionary but it's great he is out there saying "Capitalism is evil" and it's just plain fun to watch the establishment talking heads react to statements like that as if there were 1st graders who were just told that Santa isn't real, their parents will die someday, and you can't grow up to be whatever you want to be because you are poor!

I felt stabbed in the back when Moore backed the Democrats and actively worked to convince non-Democratic Party progressive to back pro-war John Kerry. However, Moore's political uneveness is a product of general political consiousness now and we can't expect someone like him to suddenly become the champion f the radical left when there is hardly a organized radical left to champion at this point. I say until there is an actual radical left too big for the media to ignore... 1, 2, 3, many MOORES!

[NecroCommie]

He sounds like me when I was 13 years old.

Then I started to think.