What If We're Wrong?

[MilitantAnarchist]

I've been giving this topic some consideration before i posted it... and i'll start off by saying again im not a communist, nor do i class myself as a leftist (although we share alot of similar views, hence why i'm here), i do class myself as an Anarchist, however...

But, in my real life, the life that isnt online, alot of my mates that are older then me, usually in their 40's or in their late 30's, when we talk political they say how they used to be lefties, one guy in particular marched for his beleifs on the NF and against the government and classed himself as a socialist... now he supports the BNP (he isnt a great mate, but although he is the enemy, he is a mate because he isnt strictly racist, he is just misguided) and i hear this same sort of story over and over of people who used to be lefties but turn into scum (my words not theirs)... Now why this is worth talking about, is because these people are real working class people, the bulk of the population, and alot of them are turning to BNP. And to me that is sickening. But, that is my oppinion... I could be wrong about my beleifs, just as easily as all of us could be... and i know people can go from right to left just as easily (i did used to be right, but i saw it was bollocks fairly quickly, just as others do and vice versa)....

The point im getting at, is, well, i'm still not sure. But, people that were like us (most of us are young and idealist) have gone the other way... how can that be right? Although you and i know the real reasons (media, government and propaganda) most people in this country dont get that...
And i was thinking, what about us? In 10 or 20 years, what will we be? will we be the same as we are now? But the most important question is, what if we're wrong?

Just imagine for a minute, if we are... I unfortuantly know none of you will agree with me, but im just saying, imagine we are wrong....

[#FF0000]

If you don't want to be wrong, just keep reading and criticize your shit constantly. That's what I do. Still communist.

[Havet]

Generally speaking, the older you get, the more *****y you get, because you've generally seen and done more shit, so you don't face the same situations with the same mood than when you were years younger.

This is why (most, not all) people begin embracing some irrational views like "immigrants need to go!" or whatever, and they are likely to be more predisposed towards those views if they have a religious and conservative past.

Anyway, there is a HUGE importance with questioning your beliefs. I actually am kind of worried that I worry too much, because roughly everyday I go over all the mental and logical arguments that have shaped my opinions. This condition is especially worsened at sleepless nights.

So in short: if you see many people who used to be like you and changed, then be aware that there might be a possibility that they are right and you are not, although majority opinion is not always logically correct (most people believe in current capitalism, lacking only some reforms, for eg), so you must take that into account as well.

Here's a golden rule I use: Take every argument to its logical extreme so as to reach the best possible logical conclusions.

[Bud Struggle]

I've been giving this topic some consideration before i posted it... and i'll start off by saying again im not a communist, nor do i class myself as a leftist (although we share alot of similar views, hence why i'm here), i do class myself as an Anarchist, however...

But, in my real life, the life that isnt online, alot of my mates that are older then me, usually in their 40's or in their late 30's, when we talk political they say how they used to be lefties, one guy in particular marched for his beleifs on the NF and against the government and classed himself as a socialist... now he supports the BNP (he isnt a great mate, but although he is the enemy, he is a mate because he isnt strictly racist, he is just misguided) and i hear this same sort of story over and over of people who used to be lefties but turn into scum (my words not theirs)... Now why this is worth talking about, is because these people are real working class people, the bulk of the population, and alot of them are turning to BNP. And to me that is sickening. But, that is my oppinion... I could be wrong about my beleifs, just as easily as all of us could be... and i know people can go from right to left just as easily (i did used to be right, but i saw it was bollocks fairly quickly, just as others do and vice versa)....

The point im getting at, is, well, i'm still not sure. But, people that were like us (most of us are young and idealist) have gone the other way... how can that be right? Although you and i know the real reasons (media, government and propaganda) most people in this country dont get that...
And i was thinking, what about us? In 10 or 20 years, what will we be? will we be the same as we are now? But the most important question is, what if we're wrong?

Just imagine for a minute, if we are... I unfortuantly know none of you will agree with me, but im just saying, imagine we are wrong....

Great post. The second you stop questioning yourself: you are dead. The second you stop doubting yourself: you are dead. The second there is no struggle: you are dead.

Life is always questioning, doubt, struggle.

Anything else is heaven and you have to be dead to be there.

[MilitantAnarchist]

I'll be honesnt, i cant see me changing my views, not to the right side anyway... what i believe though is that capitalism doesnt work, communism doesnt work, and fascism definantly does work... so i think we should change what we have now, it is quicker and more likely (if you go by bookies odds that is)...
If all our energies (and i include left and right in that, even though the right wouldnt because they are usually pretty stupid (sorry liberals)) went into changing the system for the better, then we wouldnt need the revolution... I unfortuantly have become pretty dispondent by it all now and would sooner just fight for a bigger slice of the pie now rather then want the whole fucking bakery...

I dont mean just 'small things' i mean big things that we all want... infact i would say scratch wanting the right in on it, they are just racist, i just wish they were intellegent enough to see that they were wrong...

[monkeydust]

If you're worried about changing your views, you're not the kind of person that will change them. It shows they mean a lot to you.

[MilitantAnarchist]

Infact fuck it, i want the whole fucking bakery...
I just worry about being 'realistic' but... i dunno, too much booze clouds my judgement i think...

[Spawn of Stalin]

So if you don't support capitalism, and you don't support Communism, what type of economic system do you propose? The reason I ask is, I used to be the same, questioning everything to the point where I would get depressed about it and start to make myself believe that no system will ever work, but it's easy enough to convince yourself that what you are doing is right and still be self-critical.

[Manifesto]

fascism definantly does work
Weird thing for an Anarchist to say.

[☭World Views]

... what i believe though is that capitalism doesnt work, communism doesnt work, and fascism definantly does work...

I agree Manifesto this is a highly suspicious comment. Who do you stand with MilitantAnarchist? Perhaps you would like to explain yourself to the people's of the world. How does fascism "work" according to you? An explanation is in order!

Don't forget the hundreds of millions of workers and bystanders that have been killed by the capitalists in their attempt to claim hegemony over everyone's lives.

[9]

To be fair, I do think 'MilitantAnarchist' meant to say "fascism definitely doesn't work" -- that's even how I read it the first time around.. I didn't notice the problem with that sentence until others started bringing it up. But he/she will definitely want to clarify that.

[KarlMarx1989]

I think that we are all wrong. Communism will never be achieved, Anarchy is unrealistic, and Socialism can't survive very long. The fact is that Capitalism is still working while Socialist governments either have failed or have gone corrupt.

I think that monkeydust has a very valid point in this thread: http://www.revleft.com/vb/communism-may-ruin-t118268/index.html (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../communism-may-ruin-t118268/index.html)

Besides, all of the progress that anyone has made for the working class is being repressed again. I think that there is too much opposition to Socialism / Anarchy due to all the years Monarchies and Capitalism has roamed the Earth and helped the powerful. As long as the powerful are helped, the revolution will always be repressed.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

I think that we are all wrong. Communism will never be achieved, Anarchy is unrealistic, and Socialism can't survive very long.
Why not?

Pessimism is self-defeating. If you believe you are going to lose, then yes, you will lose, but it will be your fault.


The fact is that Capitalism is still working while Socialist governments either have failed or have gone corrupt.
"Working?" Define "working." How does capitalism "work," exactly? It is still causing untold exploitation, poverty, misery and suffering across the world.

Perhaps you mean that capitalism still exists. Big deal. Capitalism has only been around for 200-300 years. On a historical scale, that's nothing. Capitalism has not yet proven that it can survive in the really long term. No class society before it has survived. Why should capitalism be any different?


Besides, all of the progress that anyone has made for the working class is being repressed again.
Yes. But similar periods of reaction have existed before. They were all eventually swept away by new waves of class struggle. Have some patience. We will win in the end.

[ls]

If we're wrong then oh fucking well, we'll find out one day or tbh we won't, only time can tell in our case, I think.

However, the power humanity possesses as a whole needs to be realised by communism through necessity, not because that's "what I want". We didn't impose this on the world; the capitalists did. I think looking at it from that point of view - that this is by necessity, really helps.

[Manifesto]

To be fair, I do think 'MilitantAnarchist' meant to say "fascism definitely doesn't work" -- that's even how I read it the first time around.. I didn't notice the problem with that sentence until others started bringing it up. But he/she will definitely want to clarify that.
Yes I thought it was a typo at first but do not really sure what else there is for a system.

[Qayin]

I think that we are all wrong. Communism will never be achieved, Anarchy is unrealistic, and Socialism can't survive very long. The fact is that Capitalism is still working while Socialist governments either have failed or have gone corrupt.

Cool story bro

[Plagueround]

If I'm wrong, nothing happens! We go to jail - peacefully, quietly. We'll enjoy it! But if I'm *right*, and we *can* stop this thing... Lenny, you will have saved the lives of millions of registered voters.- Dr. Peter Venkman

But seriously. I'm much more concerned with what I believe to be right than what others think won't work at the time. If I discover what I think is an error in my thinking, I'll admit it, move on, and keep on keeping on.

I'm sure quite a few feudalist lords were laughing the world's progress off at one time.

[ellipsis]

I can definitely sympathize with the OP. I struggle with feeling of uncertainty often. I had been thinking about posting a similar thread, albeit with different wording.

[9]

I've been giving this topic some consideration before i posted it... and i'll start off by saying again im not a communist, nor do i class myself as a leftist (although we share alot of similar views, hence why i'm here), i do class myself as an Anarchist, however...

But, in my real life, the life that isnt online, alot of my mates that are older then me, usually in their 40's or in their late 30's, when we talk political they say how they used to be lefties, one guy in particular marched for his beleifs on the NF and against the government and classed himself as a socialist... now he supports the BNP (he isnt a great mate, but although he is the enemy, he is a mate because he isnt strictly racist, he is just misguided) and i hear this same sort of story over and over of people who used to be lefties but turn into scum (my words not theirs)... Now why this is worth talking about, is because these people are real working class people, the bulk of the population, and alot of them are turning to BNP. And to me that is sickening. But, that is my oppinion... I could be wrong about my beleifs, just as easily as all of us could be... and i know people can go from right to left just as easily (i did used to be right, but i saw it was bollocks fairly quickly, just as others do and vice versa)....

The point im getting at, is, well, i'm still not sure. But, people that were like us (most of us are young and idealist) have gone the other way... how can that be right? Although you and i know the real reasons (media, government and propaganda) most people in this country dont get that...
And i was thinking, what about us? In 10 or 20 years, what will we be? will we be the same as we are now? But the most important question is, what if we're wrong?

Just imagine for a minute, if we are... I unfortuantly know none of you will agree with me, but im just saying, imagine we are wrong....


I fail to see what it is that we would be 'wrong' about. That opposing exploitation, oppression, and subjugation is wrong? That opposing a system which seeks only to maximize capital at the detriment of the vast majority of the global population is wrong? No, I'm sorry, that is a baseless suggestion, and if I ever conclude that such positions are wrong, it will certainly mean that I will have transformed into a despicable human being.
Now the question of "what if we're wrong" when applied to tactics or strategy is certainly a legitimate topic of debate, but it has nothing to do with "the revolutionary left" being 'wrong'. It has to do with different sects and tendencies within the revolutionary left potentially being wrong, and I've no doubt that some are, and I've no doubt that some positions which I hold which I have not yet developed fully are wrong. For instance, I started out as a reformist socialist, and as I learned more, I came to see that this was wrong. I moved onto anarcho-syndicalism. I then read Marx and concluded that my position as an anarcho-syndicalist had been wrong, and I am now a Marxist. So I am always learning and growing and developing my position and striving to correct my incorrect views. But what I am absolutely certain of is that opposing exploitation, oppression, and subjugation is absolutely right; and opposing a system which seeks only to maximize profit at the detriment of the vast majority of the global population is absolutely right; and that understanding that revolution led by the working class to overthrow this system is also absolutely right. The tactics and strategies are always debatable, and they most definitely should be debated, and vigorously so. But the basic principles of the revolutionary left which I have just listed are absolutely right, and those of us who are workers are reminded of this every day.

[Bankotsu]

For instance, I started out as a reformist socialist, and as I learned more, I came to see that this was wrong. I moved onto anarcho-syndicalism.

I started out as a terrorist wanting to kill bankers before moving to reformist socialist.


What If We're Wrong?

Just read below lecture:

"The State of Individuals"

http://www.wealthbuilder.ie/essay15.htm


It will strengthen your belief in socialism.

[Qayin]

http://www.wealthbuilder.ie/essay15.htm (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.wealthbuilder.ie/essay15.htm)


It will strengthen your belief in socialism.

Somebody call Alex Jones:laugh:

[KarlMarx1989]

Why not?
Let me rephrase; Socialism may not survive as long as there are this amount of opposition to it worldwide, the same goes for what I said about Communism. We can try, but how much have we tried since the collapse of the USSR, really? Anarchism is still unrealistic.

Define "working."
It is working as in, it has kept christian-America afloat in the economic world [even though it has caused really bad debt]. As long as it keeps governments going, it will exist. It works for governments and that is all people care about anymore. Especially the way countries like Sweden use it, as more of a social-Capitalism.

Capitalism has not yet proven that it can survive in the really long term.
Socialism hasn't been proven to last long at all. In fact, I believe it was very short lived--more so than Capitalism in christian-America--in the USSR.

We will win in the end.
Oh? I understand that having a optimistic outlook can be good, but how do you suppose we go about succeeding and support ourselves and our loved ones. You know that we could be replaced quite quickly, that is how they have it set up. How much activity has anyone been involved in and how much is actually being achieved? The ratio is 4:1 basically, the four being how much is done about it and the one being how much progress is being made. I've noticed that since 1992, not much has been done at all and almost no progress is made.

[Bankotsu]

Somebody call Alex Jones:laugh:

What sort of fucking bullshit is that?

Why bring in that nut Alex Jones?

[9]

I started out as a terrorist wanting to kill bankers before moving to reformist socialist.



Just read below lecture:

"The State of Individuals"

http://www.wealthbuilder.ie/essay15.htm


It will strengthen your belief in socialism.

No thanks, I can't quite find the motivation to read such a gargantuan wall of text when the title is something as exciting as "The Difference Between Stock Market Investment and Speculation". If you would like to briefly summarize it for me, you are welcome to do so. Or I could just answer the statement in the title and say: it is the same as the difference between a casino and a 'psychic'.

[Bankotsu]

No thanks, I can't quite find the motivation to read such a gargantuan wall of text when the title is something as exciting as "The Difference Between Stock Market Investment and Speculation".

You can't be that thick.:closedeyes:

I changed the title.

Read this alone and you can win the fight against Capitalism!

http://www.wealthbuilder.ie/essay15.htm

[9]

You can't be that thick.:closedeyes:
Nor can you, boychik; if you'll notice the blue bar at the top of your screen when you click the link it says, "The difference between stock market investment and speculation".


I changed the title.

Read this alone and you can win the fight against Capitalism!

http://www.wealthbuilder.ie/essay15.htmStill says it;)

[Bankotsu]

Nor can you, boychik; if you'll notice the blue bar at the top of your screen when you click the link it says, "The difference between stock market investment and speculation".
Still says it;)

I'll play along with your shit if it pleases you.

The "The difference between stock market investment and speculation" has nothing whatsoever to do with the fucking lecture.;)

[9]

I'll play along with your shit if it pleases you.

The "The difference between stock market investment and speculation" has nothing whatsoever to do with the fucking lecture.;)

Interesting that it would be on the page, then.

[Bankotsu]

Try this link if for some fuck reason you refuse to accept the previous link:

Read this alone and you can win the fight against Capitalism!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7529218/Prof-Carroll-QuigleyThe-Oscar-Iden-Lectures-Lecture-3-The-State-of-Individuals

[9]

Try this link if for some fuck reason you refuse to accept the previous link:

Read this alone and you can win the fight against Capitalism!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7529218/Prof-Carroll-QuigleyThe-Oscar-Iden-Lectures-Lecture-3-The-State-of-Individuals

As I said, if you'd like to summarize it for me here, you are welcome to do so. I do not feel like taking the time to click the link and read another capitalist intellectual blather on.

[Ovi]

To me there is nothing uncertain in what I believe. I oppose authority and capitalism for many years and I doubt I'll ever change my mind in this regard.

The only thing I'm afraid of is that 20 years from now nothing will change. We'll still be members of the same leftist groups, unions and discuss in the same web forums about how the revolution will somehow happen. My kid will be as anti-capitalist as I am, the same way I am an anti-capitalist like my father. But so what? Nothing changed. I'll never regret that part of my time is spent with reading leftist material and trying to convince others to join the struggle, it's time well spent no matter what. But it would be a bit disappointing not to achieve or get any closer to our goal. I can only do so much and for a revolution we need most of the people to be conscious about our struggle and our goal.

And even those 200-300 years than many say it's the age of capitalism is way more than a human life, so it's hard to be objective and to say that the revolution will happen in the next decade.

Anyway I'm still an optimist about everything and I truly believe we can change the world in the next years, although the thought the we might not be able to still haunts me.

[Bankotsu]

I do not feel like taking the time to click the link and read another capitalist intellectual blather on.

You have a closed mind?

The lecture is a critic of capitalist society.

[Muzk]

what i believe though is that capitalism doesnt work, communism doesnt work, and fascism definantly does work...



fail

[NecroCommie]

Socialism hasn't been proven to last long at all. In fact, I believe it was very short lived--more so than Capitalism in christian-America--in the USSR.
I know that you know there are several reasons why your statement can be considered false.

As to the OP, masses prove nothing and age does not bring wisdom. The fact that others don't agree with you has nothing to do with correctness of their ideas. Also, not all change is progress (someone tell this to Obama). This means that if someone "converts" from left to right, it means nothing at all.

Pretty much the only thing that has value in left vs right debates, is that your ideals should reflect your values. If you see equality and justice as your prime values then communism is for you regardless it's theory.

[MilitantAnarchist]

Of course it was a fucking typo, i've spent the past two years or so of my life dedicated to fighting fascism... i have ANTIFA tattooed down my arm for all to see... I only just realised since people of brought it up, sorry folks :p

When i posted all the 'angry' shit last night i was fairly drunk, and i've been on a downer recently, and everything has been testing me, though it is no excuse... so i think it is only fair to apologise if i seemed to insult anyone (i guess that would mostly be Stalinists and what not)...
I don’t believe any kind of government works as they are all going to look after themselves, I also don't believe wide spread Anarchy would be a good thing...

BUT what i do believe, is that we can make a change in a step towards our goal through direct action, protest and propaganda. Everyone here does share core beliefs, it is only deeper politics where the disagreements start... What I believe is if we all unite for our 'core beliefs' (by that i mean equality, a higher minimum wage, non corrupt unions, and at least a step towards an open borders policy) then that is something we can DEFINATLY achieve...

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Let me rephrase; Socialism may not survive as long as there are this amount of opposition to it worldwide, the same goes for what I said about Communism. We can try, but how much have we tried since the collapse of the USSR, really? Anarchism is still unrealistic.
The majority of people, everywhere and at all times, do not care about politics and do not particularly support or oppose any economic system.

This is as true today as ever. The majority of people don't oppose socialism. The majority of people don't care about socialism. We do not need to have majority support - we only need to have more supporters than opponents.


It is working as in, it has kept christian-America afloat in the economic world [even though it has caused really bad debt]. As long as it keeps governments going, it will exist.
That's basically saying, "capitalism has existed for some time, and if things stay like they are today, it will keep existing."

Well, yes. IF things stay like they are today. But they won't. The only thing that is certain about the future is that the world will change. One way or another, it will change. You can already see the cracks in the capitalist system. It produces periodic crises, and they are getting worse. Sooner or later, one of these crises will bring the end of capitalism.


Socialism hasn't been proven to last long at all. In fact, I believe it was very short lived--more so than Capitalism in christian-America--in the USSR.
The system that existed in the USSR was not socialism. It is true that it lasted only 75 years - less than capitalism so far - but so what? It's not like we want to resurrect the USSR.

And still, the Soviet system lasted long enough that, if you were transported back in time to 1917 today, you'd probably be dead of old age before the USSR ended.


Oh? I understand that having a optimistic outlook can be good, but how do you suppose we go about succeeding and support ourselves and our loved ones.
I do not understand that question. What does our political stance have to do with supporting ourselves and our loved ones?


How much activity has anyone been involved in and how much is actually being achieved? The ratio is 4:1 basically, the four being how much is done about it and the one being how much progress is being made. I've noticed that since 1992, not much has been done at all and almost no progress is made.
That is true.

But it is not without precedent. Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto in 1848, on the eve of a great revolutionary wave that swept across Europe. They had high hopes. But the revolutions were crushed, often in bloody massacres. Then, for over 20 years, nothing happened. Organizations were set up - like the First International - but they made little or no progress. If Marx had given up then, we would not have Marxism today, and the Bolshevik Revolution would not have happened 50 years later.

[KarlMarx1989]

We do not need to have majority support - we only need to have more supporters than opponents.
So, with as much activity as we have participated in; how the hell are we going to do that? Well, unless we get off our asses and do something about it for once.

The system that existed in the USSR was not socialism.
It is to my understanding that from 1917 to about 1925 or so it was. After that, and the Capitalists crushing the revolution; it became what we know of the USSR today.

the revolutions were crushed, often in bloody massacres.
And with more opposition and advances in weapons, what do you think will happen today or in the future; for that matter?

[Spawn of Stalin]

I have never seen so much pessimism in a leftist as I have with you, KarlMarx1989. It seems to me like you think that there are only two possible outcomes, we can either have our revolution and fail, or we can continue to be slaves and allow the same thing to happen to our children. Has it occurred to you that we could actually succeed? That the poor greatly outnumber the rich and that in time they will wake the fuck up and rise above the oppressors? History is on our side.

[red cat]

Isn't it clear to us that after a counter revolution, the society goes back to the previous class-contradictions, which always lead towards socialism? All the defeats of socialism so far have been due to the economic, cultural, political and military errors made by the working class. Since the workering class learns from its past mistakes, at some time or the other it will definitely attend a stage in socialism from where counter-revolution is impossible.

[KarlMarx1989]

I do not understand that question. What does our political stance have to do with supporting ourselves and our loved ones?
What I mean is that since we'd still have to live off of the current system while we go about revolution--because revolution can't happen over night--how would we be able to fight for our rights and keep our jobs at the same time. It can't be done. The Capitalist states always have a replacement for someone for jobs. We'd lose our jobs almost immediately.

Has it occurred to you that we could actually succeed?
I know we can, but we are doing nothing but talking shit right now. We haven't done much at all. Sure, we may have small groups of people fighting for the cause but there aren't enough people who are willing or ready for revolution.

If we are to truly succeed, we have to start by doing something first.

Since the workering class learns from its past mistakes, at some time or the other it will definitely attend a stage in socialism from where counter-revolution is impossible.
Yes, and if we could actually get people to cooperate, fully, in the revolution and to fight off counter-revolutions then I'd say we have a good chance.

Let me ask you this: How much has anyone really done about it since 1992?

[Kwisatz Haderach]

It is to my understanding that from 1917 to about 1925 or so it was. After that, and the Capitalists crushing the revolution; it became what we know of the USSR today.
I don't think you can say the USSR was socialist at any time. You can say that the working class was in power from 1917 to about 1925, and that it was in the process of building socialism at that time, but it had definitely not reached socialism yet. The NEP was still in place in 1925.


And with more opposition and advances in weapons, what do you think will happen today or in the future; for that matter?
Weapons? Machine guns have been around since before 1914. And you don't need anything more advanced than a machine gun to slaughter a crowd if you want to.

The thing is, suppressing a revolution is never as simple as getting a gun and pulling the trigger. You must be careful not to cause outrage in the rest of the population - or worse, rebellion in the ranks of the people you're sending to do the killing.


What I mean is that since we'd still have to live off of the current system while we go about revolution--because revolution can't happen over night--how would we be able to fight for our rights and keep our jobs at the same time. It can't be done. The Capitalist states always have a replacement for someone for jobs. We'd lose our jobs almost immediately.
Do you imagine that the millions of communist workers past and present were all unemployed?

You fight for your rights and keep your job at the same time by joining a union.


Let me ask you this: How much has anyone really done about it since 1992?
Let's see: Venezuela has a president that openly declares his intention to pursue a transition to socialism (whether he will ever actually get there remains to be seen, but still, this is a vast improvement over the previous state of affairs). A wave of leftist activism has swept over Latin America over the last decade, and leftist presidents have been elected in Bolivia, Paraguay, Ecuador and Nicaragua (and Brazil, if you want to count Lula, but that's really pushing the definition). There has been a successful Maoist insurgency in Nepal and there is an ongoing political struggle that may lead to a Maoist government in that country. Another Maoist insurgency is underway in India, and apparently making gains recently. Communist ideas are gaining ground in some parts of the developed world, such as Japan.

[KarlMarx1989]

Let's see: Venezuela has a president that openly declares his intention to pursue a transition to socialism (whether he will ever actually get there remains to be seen, but still, this is a vast improvement over the previous state of affairs). A wave of leftist activism has swept over Latin America over the last decade, and leftist presidents have been elected in Bolivia, Paraguay, Ecuador and Nicaragua (and Brazil, if you want to count Lula, but that's really pushing the definition). There has been a successful Maoist insurgency in Nepal and there is an ongoing political struggle that may lead to a Maoist government in that country. Another Maoist insurgency is underway in India, and apparently making gains recently. Communist ideas are gaining ground in some parts of the developed world, such as Japan.
OK; but what have people like us, who do not like the current conditions in the US / UK--which is where the majority of us are from, what have we done? Is there, really, anything we have done.

Good for those in South America and Asia; but what about us?

[ls]

OK; but what have people like us, who do not like the current conditions in the US / UK--which is where the majority of us are from, what have we done? Is there, really, anything we have done.

Good for those in South America and Asia; but what about us?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
1 China[5] 1,333,160,000 September 25, 2009 19.64% Chinese Population clock
2 India 1,169,390,000 September 25, 2009 17.23% Indian Population clock
3 United States 307,473,000 September 25, 2009 4.53% Official USA Population clock
4 Indonesia 229,965,000 3.39% UN estimate
5 Brazil 191,903,000 September 25, 2009 2.83% Official Brazilian population clock
6 Pakistan 167,523,000 September 25, 2009 2.47% Official Pakistani Population clock
7 Bangladesh 162,221,000 2.39% UN estimate
8 Nigeria 154,729,000 2.28% UN estimate
9 Russia 141,884,000 September 25, 2009 2.09% Russian State Statistics Service
10 Japan 127,590,000 August 1, 2009 1.88%

Aanyway. I think that things are being done in the UK, there is quite a lot of militancy with workers here. In the USA I think there is at least progress for the left movement being made.

[Cheung Mo]

Speaking in the broadest possible sense, we can't be wrong; the theory of evolution, the law of large numbers, and millennia of historical evidence prove that we are able to accomplish more as a collective working for a common goal than we are as individuals working to maximize our own profit.

Where we must be self-critical is in figuring out how to translate these ideas into some sort of tangible material reality.