Is There Anything Useful We Can Do?

[KarlMarx1989]

We've done a lot over the last 17 years regarding supporting socialism / communism, but it's not making any head-way. Is there anything useful we can do to make the things we keep talking about a reality?

[rebelmouse]

you didn't analize yourself and didn't see where you make mistake. change your tactics and you will have better results.
activism became ritual in which people copy what other people do. demonstrations became so much the same, that it is boring to visit it anymore. mass of people got apathy in my country.

[KarlMarx1989]

In christian-America? I don't think doing anything will help in this country; it will just cause more violence from feux-christians and KKK members and such. In other words, I and other comrades beside me will die in vein. I understand that not everyone here is from christian-America. However, have you ever taken a look around and seen the hold Capitalism and Monarchies have on the world? I don't think we are making as much progress as we should.

[Eat the Rich]

Why such pessimism?

PROTIP #1: The movement doesn't always grow. It has setbacks, even if we did everything right due to a change in objective conditions. For example in the beggining of the 90s there was a rightwards shift in society and a collapse of the Left due to the disbanding of the Soviet Union. The dominant idea of that period was : Capitalism won, this is the end of history! But this is changing. Capitalism itself proved that this is not the end of history and that Marxism will always be relevant. There is a general left-ward shift in society and a change of consciousness.

PROTIP#2 Revolutionaries don't make revolutions. The working class does. Therefore our job is to diffuse the ideas of socialism in the widest layers of the working class and offer a genuine revolutionary working class leadership that can lead the workers to the overthrow of capitalism.

[KarlMarx1989]

I think that things have gotten so bad since the failed attempt to change christian-America in the 1960's - mid 1970's has messed things up a lot worse than what we think. No one has determination anymore, they are all afraid of the government after what they did to their 'revolution.' There may be a lot of supporters of socialism in Europe, but all we have here are post-punks who are still trying to get their ideas of anarchy out and that too is failing. People are killed, here, for believing in change for equality. I think that the uprising of people in the 1960's / 70's has put the right-winged people on guard. I say this because they are still spreading propaganda that anyone who is against capitalism at all is bad, that these people hate christian-America; the same goes for the non-christians they target. Their propaganda is keeping the revolution dormant. Not to mention the fear they put into the people with the killings of very vital figures of the original 60's "revolution" and they keep that fear going with the media along with the propaganda. It is a very grave situation; and who knows, maybe the EU will become something big and so christian-America will go against them because the EU "hates America" just for establishing socialism. We all know what will happen then. Somehow, christian-America will come through and beat socialism again; the same way they took part in the collapse of the USSR, and that situation would be our best chance too...btw, that last part was hypothetical.

[Omegared]

We've done a lot over the last 17 years regarding supporting socialism / communism, but it's not making any head-way. Is there anything useful we can do to make the things we keep talking about a reality?

What were the tactics that u used to support communism/socialism over the years.

[KarlMarx1989]

It is hard to gather people to do something for a cause when there is only 7 of us who are actually willing to do something.

So, the only thing we've done, as I've said somewhere here before, is burn Nazi and Confederate flags outside places where the KKK members are usually. They threaten us a lot but they do nothing. Once we got chased. Other than that, there really isn't anything useful we can do unless we get a larger number of people in our area.

The problem is that we live in a rather conservative area in northern Indiana, so there is next to no support (except from each other) so it is incredibly difficult to gather anyone else, really.

Everyone else that is against the conservative beliefs, around here, are bumbling morons who don't care about how things are and / or would rather sit around and smoke pot / do methamphetamine all damn day.

[CELMX]

This might sound stupid but...

could you possibly give speeches and spread "propaganda"?
I'm not sure if anyone here believes in propaganda (i.e. pamphlets, posters, etc.) , but it works!

This probably already been done, but bring communism and socialism to attention without using those words (cuz when people hear those words, they think AHHH!!! IT'S A COMMIE!!!! and run away)

You could also make friends and slowly bring enlighten them with socialist/communist ideas (without using the words socialism or communism).

No offense, but I don't think burning flags would help very much...though it is fun...so is burning cars and rioting:rolleyes:

[KarlMarx1989]

could you possibly give speeches and spread "propaganda"?
Not without being targeted by a large number of people. Remember, there is only seven of us.

I'm not sure if anyone here believes in propaganda ... ,but it works!
Around here, things like pamphlets and posters would end up torn down, in the trash, burned in a collection...right now we are on the side of tearing down their propaganda that has littered this right-wing town. We have already decided that making posters, flyers, pamphlets or whatever would be a waste of money. As I said, it would all be torn down, etc. People don't tolerate difference 'round these parts.

You could also make friends and slowly bring enlighten them with socialist/communist ideas
Each of us have many friends, be it online or otherwise, and most of them think its a good idea; but none of them would be willing to do anything. Basically, at least all the ones I know, only care about it so that pot can be legalized. They get sucked up in American politics over that. Most of these people are in their own little world. They really aren't willing to do anything.

We like to call places like this "dead-end towns." This means that there is a brainless population in our side and is not a good place for revolution.

We'd move, but most of us can't even get jobs; just Toby and I have shitty low-level jobs. The rest of our friends can't get jobs. Nor can any of us get financial aide for even a technical school. The Capitalist system is holding us down, right now; with their propaganda keeping the masses believing and their not-jobs.

[MarxSchmarx]

just Toby and I have shitty low-level jobs.

Organize a union. Here's how you start. Go to other cities where people in your industry are unionized (you can usually just call around), ask the workers how they did it and to put you in touch with their local rep. If you are in Northern Indian you are close enough to CHicago and any union worth its name will have an organizer there to help you out.

[KarlMarx1989]

Road Trip!

But, yeah; I suppose that is worth a shot. However, I have to ask; how useful are unions?

Also, how useful can unions be?

[MarxSchmarx]

Road Trip!

But, yeah; I suppose that is worth a shot. However, I have to ask; how useful are unions?

Also, how useful can unions be?

As you are probably aware, the spectrum spans from most unions being tools of the bourgeosie (e.g., some "pure" anarchists that want a decisive split from any remnant of capitalist hegemony) to unions being THE key ingrediant to social change (e.g,. anarcho-syndicalism). And that's just the libertarian side!

Personally I think unions are only as useful as their rank and file. If the grassroots and vocal participators are ready to stand up for what they believe in, I am convinced they willl start coming out in droves as journalists instead of organ izers can spread the worda little better.

[KarlMarx1989]

Personally I think unions are only as useful as their rank and file.
Yeah, I always figured that revolution is pretty far away. To start a union is to be patient. We could stand up for what we believe in, but keeping the group together and resolved about the issue is the challenge.

[Искра]

KarlMarx1989 could you stop with that "Christian-America" shit?
In "3rd world countries" and in "post-socialist countries" religion has much more influence on everyday's people lives etc. Jet, people here don't give up... why do you think that its easier to make some changes here than in America?

[KarlMarx1989]

could you stop with that "Christian-America" shit?
1) Why the fuck should you care?
2) Why the fuck does it matter?

Is it any different than calling it either 'the US' and 'America?' How about those who don't have a 'C' in their alphabet and call it Amerika?

Could you stop nit-picking and look at the real issue for once? For fuck's sake, is this why revolution is so impossible? Is it because people like you go around getting sidetracked by ever small detail? Should I start correcting you for when you say 'chips' when you really mean 'fries?' I'm not like that. I stick to the real issue at hand; and I think I'm alone in doing that.

If you can't accept that I call it christian-America because about 75.6% of it is christian, then fuck off. OK?

[Искра]

85%
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_christian.html

While in Croatia there 89%. And I'm in that 89%, also, even I'm atheist, but still I have baptising certificate. So, not all in this 85% are Christians.

Also, you are boring and childlish when you respond on everything "what - in Christian-America, no we cant". Fuck it. Every country in this world is under some kind of organised religion which is repressing working class. That's problem. But, do you see people that they say "what - in Maoist-China, no we can't" or "what - in Muslim-Iran, no we can't"... I don't have to tell you that USA's law give you more "freedom" than in any of those countries to act?

[KarlMarx1989]

you are boring and childlish when you respond on everything "what - in Christian-America, no we cant".
OK, look; I never said it was impossible to do nor did I say that it is not doable. However, I have been saying that, ever since the 1960's - 70's here in the US; everyone has been very afraid of the government after what they did to the "revolution", as they still like to call it around here.

What we need is a large number of people that aren't afraid, and yes; it is possible. However, we don't know where to find such a multitude.

[RedDragon]

What we need is a large number of people that aren't afraid, and yes; it is possible. However, we don't know where to find such a multitude.
Unfortunately the only way to bring about that multitude is to be bold and get out there and educate. The people won't come to you so put aside any trepidation, bite the bullet and tell people the truth. Or something like that.

[MarxSchmarx]

To start a union is to be patient. We could stand up for what we believe in, but keeping the group together and resolved about the issue is the challenge.

You would be surprised. In my union, for instance, votes with 98% or 99% one way or the other are pretty routine. It's much easier to get people to stand together when they feel invested, and if nothing else, organizing drives create this sense of investment in people's own livelihoods. Personally, i see this as a key step to internalizing teh class struggle.