Have we succeeded at all?

[KarlMarx1989]

I have a question. Everyone is welcome to answer this. Have we made any major head-way for the working class? This doesn't just apply to christian-America, I mean anywhere. However, I would like to see if any real progress was made in christian-America, which is where I live.

[Axle]

America had some initial success improving lives of working people through unionization primarily, although there have been times (usually during some devastating strike) of a robust sense of class awareness that, given the right touch of leadership, could very well have been the seeds of a revolution.

However, in the last few decades, picking up the most speed during the Reagan Presidency, labor unions have lost power. Be it though strike breaking, union busting, repealing labor laws or even corrupted and inept union officials, labor union's lost influence has directly resulted in a steady decline in average wages, workplace safety, job security...you name it

To answer your question though: Yes, there has been some headway in improving the lives of the working class in America...although recently that headway is being scaled back.

[Forward Union]

I didn't die in a cotton mill after a 70 hour shift at the age of 10...

so yes, we have succeeded a bit.

[JohannGE]

I didn't die in a cotton mill after a 70 hour shift at the age of 10...

so yes, we have succeeded a bit.

:) True.

I do feel though that in my working lifetime we have gone backwards in the UK. As I mentioned in chit-chat "Are you a worker" poll I originally worked in the shipyards in the 70's. There was a strong feeling of worker solidarity and a general feeling that things were generally making good if slow progress. Perhaps to much unionised self interest, but still a feeling of progress to the left.

The Thatcherite disaster of the 80's saw all that off though and now it seems that many workers are frustrated but enthusiastic social climbers at the absolute mercy of the capitalists.
-

[Forward Union]

:) True.

I do feel though that in my working lifetime we have gone backwards in the UK. As I mentioned in chit-chat "Are you a worker" poll I originally worked in the shipyards in the 70's. There was a strong feeling of worker solidarity and a general feeling that things were generally making good if slow progress. Perhaps to much unionised self interest, but still a feeling of progress to the left.

The Thatcherite disaster of the 80's saw all that off though and now it seems that many workers are frustrated but enthusiastic social climbers at the absolute mercy of the capitalists.
-

Yea for sure, I mean most people I know work much more than 8 hours a day, often don't get enough time for break. And even today more people die at work than at war. Unions are very weak now and things are starting to regress a bit.

But our forefathers have fought very hard and we should be proud of what they achieved.

[rebelmouse]

I have a question. Everyone is welcome to answer this. Have we made any major head-way for the working class? This doesn't just apply to christian-America, I mean anywhere. However, I would like to see if any real progress was made in christian-America, which is where I live.

I don't think that You or We made change, but working class got some benefits because of fight against ruling class in west europe and USA. capitalists are more concentrated on exploitation of Asia and Africa where they can do what they did in the middle age in EU and USA.

[KarlMarx1989]

I didn't die in a cotton mill after a 70 hour shift at the age of 10...

so yes, we have succeeded a bit.

Many nations around the world have abolished slavery, but they still have terrible working conditions, benefits, etc. I understand that in the last 20 years the progress we thought we were making, as a working class, have deterred at least significantly. So, if things are getting worse; then what are we doing wrong?

[Pogue]

Who is we?

[Manifesto]

Who is we?
I think he means the workers.

[KarlMarx1989]

Who is we?
:confused:
Workers. That is why I specifically placed this thread in the Workers Struggles forum...

[JohannGE]

I thought that KarlMarx1989 asked us a question about "anywhere" as in various countries/regions and also expressed a specific interest in "christian-America". If the question meant anywhere as in world wide, then the answer would be different.

As other posters have illustrated there are obvious discrepancies in the answers resulting from each interpretation.


I have a question. Everyone is welcome to answer this. Have we made any major head-way for the working class? This doesn't just apply to christian-America, I mean anywhere. However, I would like to see if any real progress was made in christian-America, which is where I live.

Perhaps the OP could clarify?
-

[rednordman]

:) True.

I do feel though that in my working lifetime we have gone backwards in the UK. As I mentioned in chit-chat "Are you a worker" poll I originally worked in the shipyards in the 70's. There was a strong feeling of worker solidarity and a general feeling that things were generally making good if slow progress. Perhaps to much unionised self interest, but still a feeling of progress to the left.

The Thatcherite disaster of the 80's saw all that off though and now it seems that many workers are frustrated but enthusiastic social climbers at the absolute mercy of the capitalists.
-I totally agree that we are currently going backwards. I can tell this by the sheer reluctance of my employers to give us pay-rises/better working conditions and equiptment. Also we are getting pushed beyond common sence to get stuff done. This is one of the largest companies within uk, and you would think that they are the poorest by the lengths they go to, to save money. Its funny how they will even substitute our health and safety now (even though if there is an accident, they can still get done pretty badly) in the 'hope' that nothing will go wrong...low and behold, when it does-its always 'our' fault. and we 'dont have a foot to stand on'.

When we complain they just respond by saying its just the 'nature of the industry'. What ever thats supposed to mean. It will be like victorian times soon.

[KarlMarx1989]

Yes, I have noticed that sort of problem in the UK. I noticed it as I looked into the US getting that bad, as well. So, it isn't really just in the UK and US, it is happening in many places. The working class is getting less money for more work and the ruling class is working less--with more benefits, now--for more money.

As I think about all this, I think to myself; is there anything we can do about it? It is looking rather grim at the moment. I understand that things can change a lot in 5 years, but it can also change a lot for the worse in 5 years just as much as it could for the better for the working class.


We've reached the end of history, all that is left is cosmetic changes.

[Forward Union]

Many nations around the world have abolished slavery, but they still have terrible working conditions, benefits, etc. I understand that in the last 20 years the progress we thought we were making, as a working class, have deterred at least significantly. So, if things are getting worse; then what are we doing wrong?

Things aren't gettng worse. The third world nations you're talking about have only just begun to industrialise and begin the proccess we went through in Europe 100 years ago.

I think last year, for the first time ever in human history, over half the population now lives in cities. The working class is bigger than it has ever been and workers in China and India are beginning to organise. I don't things look grim at all.

[rednordman]

Things aren't gettng worse.:confused:You should try living in the UK. This is meant to be one of the leading nations of capitalism. Second to only the USA. Even with an advanced NHS, its a shit country (and the people want to get ride of the NHS now. Yes, lets pay MORE for a shitter service)

[Pogue]

:confused:You should try living in the UK. This is meant to be one of the leading nations of capitalism. Second to only the USA. Even with an advanced NHS, its a shit country (and the people want to get ride of the NHS now. Yes, lets pay MORE for a shitter service)

Forward Union has lived in the UK for 20 years, he is on a overseas study year in Sweden at the moment. He has a point on that optimism if you think about it.

[rednordman]

Forward Union has lived in the UK for 20 years, he is on a overseas study year in Sweden at the moment. He has a point on that optimism if you think about it.I do understand what forward Union is saying, but i think there may be a slight correlation. If you are reffering to the fact that the situation for revolution may be getting better, than yes, I totally understand what forward movement is saying. Its just i have always looked at things from the viewpoint that of if things are bad for people in the UK then they must be awfull for the developing nations. It is great thing if there lives are making progress.

(sorry if my post is 'all over the place' am just in the progress of drinking a 'king cobra' if you understand)

[KarlMarx1989]

There is a big difference between doing something and what is happening to people now. Doing something about doesn't always just make things change. I'm sure that there are some rather active figures working toward making working conditions / benefits better, but how much progress are they making, really?

[KarlMarx1989]

Especially in the US and UK.

[Redstar226]

Yeah, conditions have improved over time, and since the Reagen\Thatcher era, some of those improvements have been destroyed. In reality, Thatcher broke the Unions in the UK to the extent where they can no longer achieve anything meaningful.

And of course, conditions will never improve to the extent that they should while workers are subservient in the workplace, and when the profit of private individuals comes before people.

I know for example, in Ireland, when Thomas Cook closed down, the police were sent in to pull them out of there when they held a sit in protest. Now friends of mine went up to help prevent the police going in, but the police had already got them before they could get there. There was nothing anyone could do prevent it. At the end of the day, the police still have the power to break any protest they wish to.

[Forward Union]

:confused:You should try living in the UK. This is meant to be one of the leading nations of capitalism. Second to only the USA. Even with an advanced NHS, its a shit country (and the people want to get ride of the NHS now. Yes, lets pay MORE for a shitter service)

No one wants to get rid of the NHS but the government are doing it anyway. That's not something to be depressed about, the government never wanted us to have it anyway but we fought for it and won it. This is why they call it a class struggle.

Quit the self-pitying siege mentality.

[JohannGE]

Quit the self-pitying siege mentality.

No self pity involved it's just the daily reality I and aparently rednordman and others experience.

In my personal experience and that of people around me the following (and more) have deteriorated in the UK over the past 20 yrs.

Housing
Employment
Health
Representation
Solidarity
Education
Transport
Utility Costs

and what about the increasing "wealth gap"?

I might agree with what you say re the rest of the world but imo the UK is going backwards.

I supose though that there are differing perspectives as well as opinions.
-

[rednordman]

No one wants to get rid of the NHS but the government are doing it anyway. That's not something to be depressed about, the government never wanted us to have it anyway but we fought for it and won it. This is why they call it a class struggle.

Quit the self-pitying siege mentality.If no one wants to get rid of the NHS, then why are we constantly bombarded by tales of woe in the media? I really do believe that there are people within the UK, who see the USA as doing everything superior than us, thus thinking we should follow suit.

I think that this has a lot to do with it, as we can both agree that axing the NHS is a dreadfull idea. Im just abit baffled by the amount of negative press that it gets, people should be gratefull for having a national health service in the first place.

[Redstar226]

For some the reason the concept of universal healthcare is anathema to a lot of people

[rednordman]

For some the reason the concept of universal healthcare is anathema to a lot of peopleYes this totally unbelievable. I simply cannot get it. Funny thing is, that when my grandad, had a knee operation a couple of years ago, he got to use a private service, but paid with state money. They were absolutly dreadfull. The operation didnt go properly and he was in alot of pain (for months after), and he got no support from them. He was simply trapped in this cell, that while being nice, was way too isolated.

On the contrary, about a year after that particular operation, he unfortuanetly broke his leg. This time round, he was with the NHS. They where miles better. Sure they may have not been fancy, but he was happy and like the fact that there where other patients to talk to. Also, he wasnt there very long and got prompt treatment. I saw both with my own eyes, all i can say is that the private care, while having better equiptment, was faceless, and really only wanted to get him dealt with as swiftly as possible, regardless of how he fealt.
The NHS may not have had the same facilities, but they at least made sure that he was properly fit to be released.

[rednordman]

No self pity involved it's just the daily reality I and aparently rednordman and others experience.

In my personal experience and that of people around me the following (and more) have deteriorated in the UK over the past 20 yrs.

Housing
Employment
Health
Representation
Solidarity
Education
Transport
Utility Costs

and what about the increasing "wealth gap"?

I might agree with what you say re the rest of the world but imo the UK is going backwards.

I supose though that there are differing perspectives as well as opinions.
-Ha, you could have added a lot more to that list. Also, there is no 'apparently' about it. I have to live with it like you do, and understand that alot of this is simply modern day discrimination of the working classes. The only difference is that even the middle class (if there really is one) could be included onto that list also. But then again, what do we expect-according to nulabour: "we are all middle-class now":rolleyes:

[KarlMarx1989]

I might agree with what you say re the rest of the world but imo the UK is going backwards.
I don't know about that. I think that there are very similar things happening in the US, as well.

the private care, while having better equiptment, was faceless, and really only wanted to get him dealt with as swiftly as possible, regardless of how he fealt.
The NHS may not have had the same facilities, but they at least made sure that he was properly fit to be released.
That is very similar to the health-care in the US. That is why I think the US would be far better off a Socialized Democracy rather than a Capitalized Imperial Republic. Capitalism has worked for the US up until now and it isn't working anymore. I think it is time to switch to Socialism--along with human rights and a well funded education system that is no longer biased and doesn't promote inequality as well as a media that is restricted so that they may not scare the public--and the country will do far better for themselves and the world.

As I listed all of that, I realize that none of it may happen in my lifetime the way things are going and the inactivity of people in the working class.

[PRC-UTE]

Many nations around the world have abolished slavery, but they still have terrible working conditions, benefits, etc. I understand that in the last 20 years the progress we thought we were making, as a working class, have deterred at least significantly. So, if things are getting worse; then what are we doing wrong?

I think these are a few likely explanations:

the end of the Soviet Union opened up lots of opportunities for imperialist capital to exploit desperate third world labour;

the end of socialist states as something workers could point to as a viable alternative is seen as gone, and therefore the bosses don't have to win the moral highground as they attempted to do during the cold war;

I think although this relates to other points our age is truly "late capitalism", a kind of capitalism that is not capable of significant reforms as it was in earlier periods when things were going well;

relating to the above, I think it's arguable that the post-capitalist economies isolated from capitalism functioned as a sort of strategic reserve for the expansion of capital, and like imperialism this counteracted the tendency for the rate of profit to fall however now such a reserve is nonexistent;

I think some of the success of the labour movement worked against it as union bureaucrats gained more seats at the bargaining table and the militancy of unions and their scope for action was reduced;

The triumph of the finance capitalists in politics (Thatcher, Reagen) meant that regulations against capital were looser or nonexistent, and so capital was able to migrate to friendly areas, as well as retard industry and workers rights to boost the profits for finance capitalists

I'm sure many others well make other points, but those are a few off the top of my head

[KarlMarx1989]

Yes, I agree that after Reagan / Thatcher; we have really not had any incentive at all, really. This brings up another question that I asked in another thread, elsewhere: http://www.revleft.com/vb/there-anything-useful-t117986/index.html (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../there-anything-useful-t117986/index.html) Only, now, I must rephrase the question for the context has changed slightly; which is, to say: Is there anything useful we, as a working class, can do to gain more ground in the means of rights / benefits.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I think although this relates to other points our age is truly "late capitalism", a kind of capitalism that is not capable of significant reforms as it was in earlier periods when things were going well

That is still no excuse to not raise demands for radical reform as a means of raising class consciousness, despite the penchant for economism on much of the class-strugglist left (defensive struggles leading towards revolutionary crisis).

[KarlMarx1989]

That is still no excuse to not raise demands for radical reform as a means of raising class consciousness, despite the penchant for economism on much of the class-strugglist left (defensive struggles leading towards revolutionary crisis).
OK, so how do you suppose we can go about this while being able to support ourselves / loved ones?

[Die Neue Zeit]

The third, incomplete PDF in this site explains:

http://reality.gn.apc.org/polemic/

[cyu]

how do you suppose we can go about this while being able to support ourselves / loved ones?

Watch this: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-take/

Read these:

http://www.monthlyreview.org/mrzine/hattingh150609.html

http://mikeely.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/workers-seize-factory-in-haiti/

http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/2052/32/

http://www.marxist.com/pt-istana-factory-occupied.htm

http://neilsnepal.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/somewhere-lenin-is-smiling/

[Reiner]

Many nations around the world have abolished slavery, but they still have terrible working conditions, benefits, etc. I understand that in the last 20 years the progress we thought we were making, as a working class, have deterred at least significantly. So, if things are getting worse; then what are we doing wrong?

I will tell you.
We are going back to Marx's vision on capitalist world.
The only thing Marx didn't predict is appearing of USSR, stimulation of other world revolutionarees, and national-socialism. These things forced capitalists to share their money with workers just so they don't look towards communists. And also make unhappy people in USSR to favor US.
Now that national-socialists long gone and USSR disbanded .. they have no more need of the "middle class" they created ... of the kind socialistic things..
Going backwards to horrible 1910
Working 6 days a week 10-12 hour sounds familiar?
Think about it.
Does feeling of things getting worse since the end of 80s getting bigger and stronger?
Does the everyday worry about the future appearing sometimes?
Think about it.
So this 70 years delay in Marx's vision of capitalist world was just a pause while USSR existed.
Prepare for the worst.
Won't get better.
The poor will get more poor, rich will get more rich.
million dollars bonuses to the top managers ? Remember?
In the last 2 decades, only in the US, the wage of regular working class people increased by 104 dollars.. and those who were owning over 100k / year increased by 13 400 something dollars.
Think about it.
It's not gonna get better.
Pray to god to revive Lenin.
Our dear comrade might be desperately missed in near future.

[KarlMarx1989]

You know, it is possible to "revive" Lenin--and Marx for that matter--by releasing their works into the mainstream. However, we would need the proper funding to do so; and all of the people who do have the funding, I presume, are quite happy with the current system...

[Reiner]

You know, it is possible to "revive" Lenin--and Marx for that matter--by releasing their works into the mainstream. However, we would need the proper funding to do so; and all of the people who do have the funding, I presume, are quite happy with the current system...

Well you know ... Lenin shown us that everything is possible. People were protesting, they were unhappy. He was exiled. But he proven that it is possible to lead them all, to lead these people against the whole world (everyone were against reds), and they won, they got ahead of everyone, they scared the crap out of the whole world. They were a great opponent for all the capitalists.

And now we have the greatest weapon in our hands - Internet..
We need to use it wisely.
We need to present the real story about the idea of communism.
We need to fight capitalist propaganda and change some brainwashed morons' minds.

If we all gonna say "oh screw it, let someone else do it - get a life" - then you don't truly understand what's happening around you and what future we are going to have.

[KarlMarx1989]

If we all gonna say "oh screw it, let someone else do it - get a life" - then you don't truly understand what's happening around you
I'm not necessarily saying that we should quit. I have just been saying that if we do want that future, we have to actually get off our asses and actually do something rather than saying "let someone else do it."

[Chicano Shamrock]

Yes we have made great strides over time. The 8 hour day was huge and in my union about half of the people work 4 hours a day and get 8.

Health and safety have come a long way aswell.


You know, it is possible to "revive" Lenin--and Marx for that matter--by releasing their works into the mainstream. However, we would need the proper funding to do so; and all of the people who do have the funding, I presume, are quite happy with the current system...
Lenin as well as Marx would do nothing for American workers. It may be nice to study but their works don't relate to the working class anymore.

Also what is this "Christian America"?

[the last donut of the night]

Lenin as well as Marx would do nothing for American workers. It may be nice to study but their works don't relate to the working class anymore.

:scared:

[Uncle Ho]

The problem with the unions in America, as I see them, is a lack of charismatic leadership. Gone are the days of Eugene Debs and Big Bill Haywood, and to replace them we have nothing but doughy old retirees. While these men are usually quite knowledgeable of the trades they represent, and a lot of them have been through the mill (You should hear the stories the old coal miners can tell), I have yet to see any that have any real charisma.

Debs could inspire huge crowds, these days you're lucky if you can get members to tolerate sitting through a safety meeting without free food or liqour.

I think a large part of this is the fact that young people are increasingly chosing bourgeois professions, after being convinced that the life of a worker is the life of a "flunkie" or a failure.

[KarlMarx1989]

The problem with the unions in America, as I see them, is a lack of charismatic leadership.
Agreed in part. I think that another thing is the willingness to stand up. Which not a lot of Americans have anymore.

you're lucky if you can get members to tolerate sitting through a safety meeting without free food or liqour.
This is another problem. No one really even cares anymore.

[FSL]

The problem with the unions in America, as I see them, is a lack of charismatic leadership. Gone are the days of Eugene Debs and Big Bill Haywood, and to replace them we have nothing but doughy old retirees. While these men are usually quite knowledgeable of the trades they represent, and a lot of them have been through the mill (You should hear the stories the old coal miners can tell), I have yet to see any that have any real charisma.

Debs could inspire huge crowds, these days you're lucky if you can get members to tolerate sitting through a safety meeting without free food or liqour.

I think a large part of this is the fact that young people are increasingly chosing bourgeois professions, after being convinced that the life of a worker is the life of a "flunkie" or a failure.


People needing charismatic leadership to participate in something that would increase their wages is a problem by itself. Lacking said leadership not so much.

Also, no such thing as bourgeois professions. You mean office jobs?

[berlitz23]

Well 15 Million Peopel are unemployed now, I believe if we harness and channel our energy into disseminating ideas not exactly "imposing" but triggering more interest amongst, then we can initiate dialogue and conversation. The state and society now form one all-embracing matrix, we need peopel to realize this that their spurious dreams of attaing wealth is futile, I say we need to start taking street action be spontaneous, I am planning my own actions in my own city and I am hoping you are too. Let's not dwell on comparison to the past and present, let us discard the past notions that seemingly dictate how we do policy and attempt to invent new methods and ideas of publishing and actively delivering ideas. Sure this is a time characterized by turmoil and forlorn but we can counter that if we begin communicating and start accepting that everyone on this website possesses "differences" that we should embrace instead of scolding someone because their views are not compatiable and congrous with ours.

[dubaba]

Workers have gained more benefits and rights since the time of Marx. But I do not view it as a success because no matter how much the unions do, they are operating in a capitalist economy and will only temporarily solve the contradiction of workers rights in a capitalist economy.

[Uncle Ho]

People needing charismatic leadership to participate in something that would increase their wages is a problem by itself. Lacking said leadership not so much

As much as we like to think otherwise, humans are simple beasts. We will follow anyone who can stir our hearts with courageous words, and the modern union movement lacks anyone of this caliber.


Also, no such thing as bourgeois professions. You mean office jobs?

So, then, what are the people who willingly choose professions that destroy the proletariat except bourgeoisie?

Have you any better term for people like bankers, stock traders, marketers and all those who choose to profit off suffering?

[FSL]

As much as we like to think otherwise, humans are simple beasts. We will follow anyone who can stir our hearts with courageous words, and the modern union movement lacks anyone of this caliber.



So, then, what are the people who willingly choose professions that destroy the proletariat except bourgeoisie?

Have you any better term for people like bankers, stock traders, marketers and all those who choose to profit off suffering?


People supporting capitalists has more to do with the cultural hegemony of those controlling the means of production and less with charismatic politicians. You don't fight it with a pretty face but with "ideas" and "deeds". If you fail you need to be trying harder, not worry about your tie or how should you phrase that sentence.

Even Castro or Chavez would be considered much less charismatic if they were dressed in Armani suits and implemented IMF policies.


And you made it seem like young people picked those jobs "en masse". I don't really think the world is full of CEOs.

[KarlMarx1989]

Well 15 Million Peopel are unemployed now, I believe if we harness and channel our energy into disseminating ideas not exactly "imposing" but triggering more interest amongst, then we can initiate dialogue and conversation. The state and society now form one all-embracing matrix, we need peopel to realize this that their spurious dreams of attaing wealth is futile, I say we need to start taking street action be spontaneous
Well said.

I am planning my own actions in my own city and I am hoping you are too.
What city is that? Are you innercity or in a small town?

Let's not dwell on comparison to the past and present, let us discard the past notions that seemingly dictate how we do policy and attempt to invent new methods and ideas of publishing and actively delivering ideas. Sure this is a time characterized by turmoil and forlorn but we can counter that if we begin communicating and start accepting that everyone on this website possesses "differences" that we should embrace instead of scolding someone because their views are not compatiable and congrous with ours.
Well said x2.

[cyu]

We will follow anyone who can stir our hearts with courageous words, and the modern union movement lacks anyone of this caliber.


Go do it yourself. If you think you suck at it and aren't even going to try, then at least don't get in the way of the people who are doing it.

Waiting for The Messiah (TM) is just another way for oppressors to teach the oppressed to do nothing. If you're not going to be your own Messiah, then you may just always be a slave.

[Uncle Ho]

People supporting capitalists has more to do with the cultural hegemony of those controlling the means of production and less with charismatic politicians. You don't fight it with a pretty face but with "ideas" and "deeds". If you fail you need to be trying harder, not worry about your tie or how should you phrase that sentence.

Even Castro or Chavez would be considered much less charismatic if they were dressed in Armani suits and implemented IMF policies.

While this is true, you must remember that often times, the only difference between a revolutionary and a crazed thug is charisma.

How would history remember Eugene Debs, for example, if he lacked the ability to inspire?


And you made it seem like young people picked those jobs "en masse". I don't really think the world is full of CEOs.Of course not, however, they have been convinced by the system that the only proper path is sitting in a cubicle counting master's imaginary money. Those who chose the life of a worker are largely seen as stupid failures. It's as much a fault of our education system as anything, really.

The problem isn't that the world is filled with CEO's, it's that it is filled with people who want to be.


Go do it yourself. If you think you suck at it and aren't even going to try, then at least don't get in the way of the people who are doing it.

Waiting for The Messiah (TM) is just another way for oppressors to teach the oppressed to do nothing. If you're not going to be your own Messiah, then you may just always be a slave.

I've been trying, actually.

I do union organizing work on the side. My area is incredibly anti-union, but we've been making some progress. We're working mostly with oil rigs and coal mines in Wyoming now, but their laws are structured so as it's very difficult for us to gain any leverage over the employers, unless we resort to some old fashioned black cat action, which would not be looked upon kindly by the local authorities.

[cyu]

I do union organizing work on the side. My area is incredibly anti-union, but we've been making some progress. We're working mostly with oil rigs and coal mines in Wyoming now, but their laws are structured so as it's very difficult for us to gain any leverage over the employers, unless we resort to some old fashioned black cat action, which would not be looked upon kindly by the local authorities.

More power to you :thumbup1: It might be good to discuss various strategies for taking on pro-capitalists with as many people as possible, and how well the different methods work.

[Omegared]

I didn't die in a cotton mill after a 70 hour shift at the age of 10...

so yes, we have succeeded a bit.


Truth Speaks LOL!!!!!!!!!

[Omegared]

Well 15 Million Peopel are unemployed now, I believe if we harness and channel our energy into disseminating ideas not exactly "imposing" but triggering more interest amongst, then we can initiate dialogue and conversation. The state and society now form one all-embracing matrix, we need peopel to realize this that their spurious dreams of attaing wealth is futile, I say we need to start taking street action be spontaneous, I am planning my own actions in my own city and I am hoping you are too. Let's not dwell on comparison to the past and present, let us discard the past notions that seemingly dictate how we do policy and attempt to invent new methods and ideas of publishing and actively delivering ideas. Sure this is a time characterized by turmoil and forlorn but we can counter that if we begin communicating and start accepting that everyone on this website possesses "differences" that we should embrace instead of scolding someone because their views are not compatiable and congrous with ours.


I am planning on organizing in my city along a marxist line. Would you be willing to share any of the tactics or methods that you have used, whether or not they were successful?

[KarlMarx1989]

If there are enough supporters of Socialism then it won't matter how fancy you look. It's the Capitalists and the Fascists that require you to look good for their attention.