Why are tips humiliating towards the worker?

[Absolut]

Some time ago, I read, in a book about the Spanish Revolution, that the workers in Barcelona '36 denied tips from customers when they were offered and then explained why it was demeaning and humiliating for them to be offered and accept tips. I cant remember which book it was, mightve been Homage to Catalonia or Antony Beevors book, but thats not really important. If I recall correctly, there wasnt any explanation as to why the tip was humiliating, just that it was. I didnt think much of it then, but today when I was given tip at work, I realised that I had read about it.

However, what I dont understand is really why it is humiliating (or why the workers in Barcelona thought so, dont know if its a universal thought). From what Ive gathered, it puts the worker down, in the way that their position as subservient to the bourgoisie becomes even more fortified and it really becomes obvious that the costumer certainly isnt equal to the worker. Or something like that.

What I would like, is to perhaps being pointed to the specific parts of the book (Im sure at least someone here can tell me from which book it was), if there should be an explanation to this that I mightve missed, or simply an explanation as to why tip is humiliating to the worker (or was to the working class in Barcelona).

Thanks in advance. :)

[JJM 777]

Tipping is a bit like begging, "please give". And the customer has the power to give or not give. Give much or give little. No certainty, no equality, one gets more and the other gets less.

Also tipping is a way of making the earnings of restaurant workers (etc.) dependent on the amount of customers. A safe way for the employer to automatically cut employee costs if there are fewer customers coming.

I don't like to see any tipping or begging in the Society.

[chegitz guevara]

The tip system is humiliating for the worker because he has to beg and scrape and act like servant in the hopes of getting payment. Unlike any other system of payment, in tip systems, first the work is done, then the buyer decides how much he will pay. There's no negotiation up front, there's no redress if the buyer refuses to pay. Not only are you fucked out of the money, but if your boss finds out, you can get in trouble.

One time I got called up by my boss and grilled as to why I'd only received a $1.50 on a $70 ticket. I told him it was a frequent customer to the restaurant who was well known for not giving decent tips, and was a friend of the owner. Rather than reimburse me, the owner just nodded, as if that were acceptable.

[☭World Views]

You know what tip technique is really demeaning around here?

Only tipping 4 cents, one cent on every corner of the table.

It is considered more demeaning than simply not leaving a tip.

[Absolut]

First of all, thanks for the answers, they clarified things. :)


The tip system is humiliating for the worker because he has to beg and scrape and act like servant in the hopes of getting payment. Unlike any other system of payment, in tip systems, first the work is done, then the buyer decides how much he will pay. There's no negotiation up front, there's no redress if the buyer refuses to pay. Not only are you fucked out of the money, but if your boss finds out, you can get in trouble.

Wouldnt that mean that theres a difference in how humiliating a tip is depending on the workplace and/or the nature of the boss?

Take for example a restaurant, which you used as en example, where a certain percentage of the money the worker gets at the end of the month is made out of tip. I understand how a week/month with poor tip can be devastating to the worker, both in terms of the money he actually gets and with the boss, who might put you in trouble. As another example, take an antiquarian bookstore, where the worker/s have their set salaries, which theyve always gotten and arent dependent on an uncertain income source such as tipping. Would tipping still be as humiliating, given the fact that the worker has not made begging and scraping into a frequent behaviour, and does not have to beg and scrape, in order to get tip, in the bookstore as in the restaurant?

Also take into account that the boss, in the antiquarian bookstore, is not expecting the worker/s to get any tips and sets the workers salaries accordingly, as opposed to the restaurant owner, who might be taking into account that the worker is making money from tips, and therefore sets the restaurant-workers salary lower.

[red cat]

A tip is always humiliating independent of its perspective. In reality, the bourgeoisie is dependent on the working class, while the act of tipping at least momentarily deludes us to believe the opposite. A worker always gets much less than what he deserves. Why should a part of his income be dependent on the customer's will? A tip is but a fraction of the value of the labor the bourgeoisie steals from him. Revolutionaries must teach workers to refuse alms. The class-conscious proletariat must SNATCH ALL OF ITS DUE from the bourgeoisie.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I've had lots of jobs where I got tips - in California, employers aren't allowed to pay you less than minimum wage because you get tips, but in much of the country you'll get an hourly wage of $2 or so and then the tips supposedly put you over minimum wage.

As a tip earning worker, it breeds resentment towards customers rather than just your boss and managers (a much more productive resentment). It's like privitization of wages, it's awful and demeaning and small-headed little yuppie fascists like to hold it over your head as a low paid wage worker. I've thrown tips back at many cutomers who acted like they could buy me to watch their car or hold their bags for a tip when it's not my job to do extra chores for them.

I would be happy to abolish all tips and I think workers will do that when they take power as history has shown.

[mannetje]

Then I'm the pariah in this thead. that says that he has no problems with tips.

I worked in a company where I provided services to clients. And on the rare occasions that I received tips. the money came in handy, but it felt like a compliment to me for doing my work good.

[Oneironaut]

Be a waiter for awhile in a cheap italian restaurant with unlimited pasta for 5.99$. It'll answer it much better than I could ever articulate.

[manic expression]

Give tips. Bigger tips than most people give. If the service is bad, tip the worker anyway. If you're drunk, make sure to remember to tip.

Sure, there's a demeaning side to it, but the bottom line is that tips make up a very important part of many workers' incomes (especially in the US). In so many cases, it's no small matter for many service workers' livelihoods.

Plus, it's basically expected that you give them, so it's not a "bonus" for the way the waiter smiled at you, it's just what you do. Every time. Give tips.

[mannetje]

Give tips. Bigger tips than most people give. If the service is bad, tip the worker anyway. If you're drunk, make sure to remember to tip.

Sure, there's a demeaning side to it, but the bottom line is that tips make up a very important part of many workers' incomes (especially in the US). In so many cases, it's no small matter for many service workers' livelihoods.

Plus, it's basically expected that you give them, so it's not a "bonus" for the way the waiter smiled at you, it's just what you do. Every time. Give tips. I surely don't give tips to anyone. For me it is important that the service is fast, and how polight they are. But if I'm satisfied I give usually big tips.

[NecroCommie]

I dunno. There is no tip culture here whatsoever. Workers are paid because they are not expected to receive any tip, and no one ever tips because we consider the restaurant prizes to include the wage of the waiters. I guess here the humiliating nature of tips is stressed because of that.

[JJM 777]

Only now I remember that when I visited USA for a week some years ago, I never left any tip in any restaurant. :blushing: The thought never occurred to me that I should leave a tip, as it is not customary in Finland (in the cheaper restaurants where I usually eat). The tradition may still live in our middle-class and upper-class restaurants, but I never eat in them because they are exorbitantly expensive.

[NecroCommie]

The tradition may still live in our middle-class ... restaurants,
It has never existed there.


but I never eat in them because they are exorbitantly expensive.
It helps if you grew up in middle class family. ;)

[brigadista]

in theory proper wages should be paid but very often v basic wage is paid and tips have to make up the living wage gap- I dont care if waiting staff are surly or slow - i ALWAYS tip as much as i can afford [dont eat out v much ]because i dont know that the person who is waiting the table is low paid or not. and the thought that people dining expect waiitng staff to be "fast" or obsequious to them is vile.. its a bleeding thankless job ..noone should have to demean themselves to customers just to get a tip.....

[Jimmie Higgins]

Give tips. Bigger tips than most people give. If the service is bad, tip the worker anyway. If you're drunk, make sure to remember to tip.

Sure, there's a demeaning side to it, but the bottom line is that tips make up a very important part of many workers' incomes (especially in the US). In so many cases, it's no small matter for many service workers' livelihoods.

Plus, it's basically expected that you give them, so it's not a "bonus" for the way the waiter smiled at you, it's just what you do. Every time. Give tips.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not saying don't give tips right now, just that workers will probably abolish them when they are in charge.

[New Tet]

Back in the late '70s I had the dubious pleasure of eating at restaurants in Madrid, Sevilla and other places in Spain. The waiters were rude and supercilious. They didn't deserve a tip.

Tips are not a form of humiliation, they are rewards for good service, gratuities, which means thank-yous. I like to be generous when tipping a food service worker or anyone who provides a service because they generally are badly paid and a tip helps to supplement their income.

If the workers in Republican Barcelona had been more interested in defeating fascism than in correcting perceived faults in tipping, they might have stood a better chance, I think.

[bcbm]

If the workers in Republican Barcelona had been more interested in defeating fascism than in correcting perceived faults in tipping, they might have stood a better chance, I think.

What an absolutely disgusting thing to say about comrades who fought and died trying to make a revolution and destroy the rising tide of fascism more or less on their own.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Tipping may be humiliating in some cases, but I don't even get tips and I would like them (not that most of the people who come into my place of work wold tip anyways, I would think that other co-workers deserve it more too). If I have extra change, and there's a tip jar, I'll likely put it in. It may make a difference for whoever is working at that time, or simply as a show of appreciation.

It's a shame of course, to rely on tips part of your main source of income, and it made sense to abolish them in Spain during the war, as with any proletarian society.

[New Tet]

What an absolutely disgusting thing to say about comrades who fought and died trying to make a revolution and destroy the rising tide of fascism more or less on their own.


My reverence for good people who died fighting fascism does not prevent me from remarking about their stupidity.

[bcbm]

My reverence for good people who died fighting fascism does not prevent me from remarking about their stupidity.

How is making a social revolution "stupidity?"

[OllyH]

Back in the late '70s I had the dubious pleasure of eating at restaurants in Madrid, Sevilla and other places in Spain. The waiters were rude and supercilious. They didn't deserve a tip.

Tips are not a form of humiliation, they are rewards for good service, gratuities, which means thank-yous. I like to be generous when tipping a food service worker or anyone who provides a service because they generally are badly paid and a tip helps to supplement their income.

If the workers in Republican Barcelona had been more interested in defeating fascism than in correcting perceived faults in tipping, they might have stood a better chance, I think.

I think you've missed the point. The fact is that in countries where tipping is the norm, wages are kept low because its assumed that tips make up a substantial part of a persons pay. If a large part of your pay is dependent on the goodwill of your customer then that puts you in a humiliating and subservient position, no two ways about it.
The last part of your comment doesn't even require much response... thats how stupid it is. Are you seriously suggesting that the Workers in Barcelona lost to the fascists because they wouldn't accept tips? Not only is this a completely ridiculous thing to say, its an assault on the memory of those Workers who fought and died for their principals. They are our comrades and we should honor their memory, even if their victory was short lived.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

If the service is bad, tip the worker anyway.

I've only not tipped once, and I have no regret about that decision.

[New Tet]

How is making a social revolution "stupidity?"

Maybe you should answer that question yourself since it wasn't I who raised it.

[gorillafuck]

I know tipping is demeaning and shouldn't have to be done, but as long as there are people who rely on tips as a substantial part of their income (and get scolded if they don't get tipped because it makes their boss assume they did something bad), I'm gonna tip. Because it's not like there's a mass movement for the abolition of tipping so me not tipping wouldn't help anyone.

[New Tet]

I think you've missed the point. The fact is that in countries where tipping is the norm, wages are kept low because its assumed that tips make up a substantial part of a persons pay. If a large part of your pay is dependent on the goodwill of your customer then that puts you in a humiliating and subservient position, no two ways about it.

Excuse me, but the wages system itself is servitude. No two ways about it.


The last part of your comment doesn't even require much response... thats how stupid it is. Are you seriously suggesting that the Workers in Barcelona lost to the fascists because they wouldn't accept tips?

The stupidity of Spain's working class was not so much in the ridiculous belief that tips were bad. That's a minor infraction, I think.

Their biggest idiocy was in trusting Moscow and allowing the anarchist to destroy churches and go after priests and nuns.


Not only is this a completely ridiculous thing to say, its an assault on the memory of those Workers who fought and died for their principals. They are our comrades and we should honor their memory, even if their victory was short lived.

As I implied above, the Spanish working class, at least the part of it that was active in the communist movement (except the trots), misread Stalin's intentions; They were dupes in a grand setup. Stalin betrayed them after promising help, a "help" that included bloody purges of trots and anarchists.
Had Moscow been sincere about its help, it would have thrown every available resource in helping to resist the Falangists, which it did not.

[Aeval]

I'll tip if someone is serving a massive group of us, if someone I'm with (or me) has caused them extra work by being wasted/obnoxious/whatever, and if they have gone out of their way to help us. Then a tip is not demeaning, rather it's a thank you or an apology, 'cause I know if someone in our group gets pissed, throws up everywhere and shouts abuse at the waitress then that's going to make their shitty job even shittier and I can't really think of anything else to do to make up for it other than apologise and give a tip.

But I won't give a tip to someone who has just done their job. Why? Because loads of people are on shit wages and don't get tips, you don't tip the person serving you at tesco do you? Or McDonald's? Or the bus drivers, nursery workers, air stewards, etc etc etc? Well they're all shit minimum wage jobs too, where the worker is expected to be all smiley smiley and polite, the only difference is that there isn't a culture of tipping there. I know people who get a ridiculous amount of money in tips (obv. it depends what type of restaurant you're working in), put if the poor harassed tesco worker who spends all their day running around fetching shit for people because their too lazy/stupid to just read the signs above the aisles, having customers flip out at them for some reason beyond their control, never been given their break at the correct time, getting abuse off customers then getting it in the neck because they complain to a manager, not to mention putting up with the boredom of working entirely alone on the tills; if they don't get a tip, then why give a restaurant worker one?

I'll stand by them if they want to do something to get better wages/working conditions, but I'm not giving them extra money myself, especially when I earned it working in a shit convenience store probably for less an hour than them.

[Revy]

I usually don't go to restaurants. It's a passive boycott since I'm vegan and the only vegan restaurant closed down a couple years ago. In fact, I'm annoyed by the silly little idea of going somewhere to eat, when I could just as easily eat at home...yes, I'm a freak....

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Some time ago, I read, in a book about the Spanish Revolution, that the workers in Barcelona '36 denied tips from customers when they were offered and then explained why it was demeaning and humiliating for them to be offered and accept tips. I cant remember which book it was, mightve been Homage to Catalonia or Antony Beevors book, but thats not really important. If I recall correctly, there wasnt any explanation as to why the tip was humiliating, just that it was. I didnt think much of it then, but today when I was given tip at work, I realised that I had read about it.

However, what I dont understand is really why it is humiliating (or why the workers in Barcelona thought so, dont know if its a universal thought). From what Ive gathered, it puts the worker down, in the way that their position as subservient to the bourgoisie becomes even more fortified and it really becomes obvious that the costumer certainly isnt equal to the worker. Or something like that.

What I would like, is to perhaps being pointed to the specific parts of the book (Im sure at least someone here can tell me from which book it was), if there should be an explanation to this that I mightve missed, or simply an explanation as to why tip is humiliating to the worker (or was to the working class in Barcelona).

Yeah, it's from Homage to Catalonia. The passage as a whole is pretty amazing:

It was the first time that I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle. Practically every building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red flags or with the red and black flag of the Anarchists; every wall was scrawled with the hammer and sickle and with the initials of the revolutionary parties; almost every church had been gutted and its images burnt. Churches here and there were being systematically demolished by gangs of workmen. Every shop and cafe had an inscription saying that it had been collectivized; even the bootblacks had been collectivized and their boxes painted red and black. Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the face and treated you as an equal. Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. Nobody said 'Senior' or 'Don' or even 'Usted'; everyone called everyone else 'Comrade' and 'Thou', and said 'Salud!' instead of 'Buenos dias'. Tipping was forbidden by law; almost my first experience was receiving a lecture from a hotel manager for trying to tip a lift-boy. There were no private motor-cars, they had all been commandeered, and all the trams and taxis and much of the other transport were painted red and black. The revolutionary posters were everywhere, flaming from the walls in clean reds and blues that made the few remaining advertisements look like daubs of mud. Down the Ramblas, the wide central artery of the town where crowds of people streamed constantly to and fro, the loudspeakers were bellowing revolutionary songs all day and far into the night. And it was the aspect of the crowds that was the queerest thing of all. In outward appearance it was a town in which the wealthy classes had practically ceased to exist. Except for a small number of women and foreigners there were no 'well-dressed' people at all.
Practically everyone wore rough working-class clothes, or blue overalls, or some variant of the militia uniform. All this was queer and moving. There was much in it that I did not understand, in some ways I did not even like it, but I recognized it immediately as a state of affairs worth fighting for.
In context, I think it's pretty clear that it's describing tipping being abolished as part of the atmosphere of total equality.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not saying don't give tips right now, just that workers will probably abolish them when they are in charge.
I thought we were going to abolish wage labour altogether when we're in charge? The point isn't to abolish tipping, it's to abolish the differences in levels of power and wealth/access to resources that makes practices like tipping possible in the first place.

[Absolut]

Yeah, it's from Homage to Catalonia. The passage as a whole is pretty amazing:

Thanks. Yeah, its pretty amazing. :)