how do communists think about pornographic material?

[mannetje]

I wonder how communists think about porn. i'm not a porn freak, but I'm not against it.:confused:

[Vendetta]

It helps me get over those lonely nights. ;)

[gorillafuck]

I'm opposed to the sexism that is extremely prevalent in pornography (as well as all the other ills that come in a capitalist society affecting pornography). I'm not inherently opposed to pornography though.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I hate pornography. Personally, I would be more than happy to get rid of it. It's portrays sexism and isn't even all that entertaining even. However, I guess if others enjoy it that's their own choice considering personal choice should be present in a communist society.

[Luisrah]

In my personal opinion, if someone creates and sells porn because that's what they like doing, and it is secure that only adults will see it, I don't see a problem.

The problem only starts when people do porn unwillingly (due to poverty, or being forced etc) and when non adults watch it.
This is what capitalism has done. Though prostituition (being related to porn) is as old as time (atleast almost) it has made the necessety for money so big, that some people choose, or must sell their own bodies so that they can live.

[RotStern]

I think its fine. As long as they are not forced to have sex.

[mannetje]

I already said that i got no problems with porn, but I don't like exploitation of people in that business (i don't like human exploitation at all by the way) and if i look at porn i try to avoid that standard especially american porn with that standard first a blowjob than ****fucking than assfucking and than standard cum in the girl's mouth. that kind of porn is tottaly making me mentaly numb. but amateurvideo's can be nice sometimes.

[Luisrah]

I already said that i got no problems with porn, but I don't like exploitation of people in that business (i don't like human exploitation at all by the way) and if i look at porn i try to avoid that standard especially american porn with that standard first a blowjob than ****fucking than assfucking and than standard cum in the girl's mouth. that kind of porn is tottaly making me mentaly numb. but amateurvideo's can be nice sometimes.

Is talk like that allowed in this forums? (I'm not censoring you I'm actually asking an innocent question)

Because you just made a 16 year old know how all porn is :rolleyes:

[Spawn of Stalin]

I am against pornography in the capitalist society, too much exploitation in the name of money if you ask me. That said, there are people who genuinely enjoy performing in pornographic films, and in the Communist society there will be no exploitation and there will be more choice in terms of employment, especially for those who have been forced into the sex industry, so it will be a much more savoury business since everything will be done voluntarily. That said, I imagine the porn industry would shrink many times over in the Communist society.

[mannetje]

Is talk like that allowed in this forums? (I'm not censoring you I'm actually asking an innocent question)

Because you just made a 16 year old know how all porn is :rolleyes: a 16 year old that doesn't know porn these days. that's a rare thing i think.

[Invincible Summer]

I am against pornography in the capitalist society, too much exploitation in the name of money if you ask me. That said, there are people who genuinely enjoy performing in pornographic films, and in the Communist society there will be no exploitation and there will be more choice in terms of employment, especially for those who have been forced into the sex industry, so it will be a much more savoury business since everything will be done voluntarily. That said, I imagine the porn industry would shrink many times over in the Communist society.

People's Porn? Interesting concept.

Just wondering - does anyone know/have statistics on how many women are forced into the porn industry vs. willingly entering it?

[Robocommie]

People's Porn? Interesting concept.

Just wondering - does anyone know/have statistics on how many women are forced into the porn industry vs. willingly entering it?

That kind of thing can be hard to determine, I'd imagine. There's also a question which feminists have yet to conclude as to what truly constitutes "willing."

Personally, I am all for personal choice, I do not feel that there is anything inherently sexist about porn but without question porn often does involve sexism. I think amateur pornography is probably ideal, some people really do get off on being filmed and being watched and when there's no money involved there's less exploitation. But I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of a porno industry as long as everyone is happy and healthy and are the primary beneficiaries of their own, erm, "production."

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Well, let's think about porn in a socialist society. Can you imagine a planned economy which dedicates some resources to the production of pornography? No, of course not. No one could seriously argue that we dedicate the resources of society to porn when there are so many other much more important things we could do instead.

There will not be any state-run porn. And for-profit porn will be impossible, as a side effect of the elimination of private industry in general. So, the only porn that is possible in a socialist society is amateur porn, filmed by ordinary people with ordinary cameras and shared freely.

There you go: the problem takes care of itself. By eliminating for-profit activities in general, we ensure that no one has a material reason to force or pressure other people into participating in porn movies any more. Also, by giving everyone a decent standard of living, we ensure that no one will participate in an activity they see as degrading just so they can survive. Porn will become a hobby, something that some people do for fun, if and when they feel like it. This means no more paying for porn. But it also means a lot less porn for you. Sorry.

And as a bonus, it will greatly reduce the quantity of spam on the internet.

Fight spam. Join the revolution! :)

[Eat the Rich]

Most of the time under capitalism, doing pornographic films is the only way for young women mostly , but young men as well to get out of poverty, unemployment and misery. In that way having public sex is forced upon a woman or a man. This is why I am against the concept of porn. Of course, many people are not forced and do it willingly, as they consider it an art such like acting. The is fact though, that most people act in such movies by being forced in one way or another. Furthermore a lot of porn movies portray women in every sexist way imaginable.

[JohannGE]

People's Porn? Interesting concept.

Just wondering - does anyone know/have statistics on how many women are forced into the porn industry vs. willingly entering it?

No statistics, defining and determining "willingly" would make that very difficult.

At a guess... I would say a similar proportion to those who "willingly" work for MkD's.

;)

[rednordman]

I Think that if you take the economic circumstances out of the equation i do not see that much wrong with it so long as it is not force, and done with voluntary enthusiasm.

However, when we get out of dream land and see it for what it actually is, it discusts me to the bone. Its tacky and unrealistic to say the least. Its a bad thing as it gives young unexperienced males (inparticular) false preconceptions on what is 'OK' sexually. And generally these are very degrading things for a woman. I could give examples here, but will spare the gory details. Lets just say that not many woman would be up for those sorts of things (straight away), if they had any self-respect/worth.

Then we look at the actual economic circumstances. This is really dire. People choose to go into the porn industry because of BOTH getting out of ecomonic problems AND because its an easy way to make money (very good in somecases).

The thought of college students in USA doing porn to help pay for their education, and eastern europeans doing it as 'a way out' of poverty, doesnt settle very well in me (says alot about those societies)

As for the people who do porn because they 'love to do it'. I really have suspicions on that statement. For me, if you love sex so much to have multiple partners, then why not just do that. Why video it for all to see. If your not doing it for the money then you are only feeding your own ego and or insecurities.

Looking at how the porn industry has grown with the economic liberalism of the 1990s, Porns stars have almost become the new popstars. So people actually now see it as a 'cool' thing to do, thus legitisizing exploitation of both sexes.

I think that the only real credance that it could have is whether or not people consider it art, but to be fair, there is nothing 'arty' about @%^&*!: someone in the ___ while grabing hold of their ____ and being 'rough' and 'dominaring'. To me thats the pinacle of sexism and chuavenism.

In so sorry if that sounds abit hard-line, its just how I see it. Really porno shouldnt be such a big industry as people should spend more time actually talking with each other and doing the real thing rather than giving themselves 'a hand' in some room and not really getting anywhere at all.

[F9]

In my personal opinion, if someone creates and sells porn because that's what they like doing, and it is secure that only adults will see it, I don't see a problem.

The problem only starts when people do porn unwillingly (due to poverty, or being forced etc) and when non adults watch it.
This is what capitalism has done. Though prostituition (being related to porn) is as old as time (atleast almost) it has made the necessety for money so big, that some people choose, or must sell their own bodies so that they can live.

Is it a problem if not adults see porn?:blink::blink: Why is that may i ask?Are teenagers too stupid to understand their sexual attractiveness?I see you are own and seems weird to me... What is wrong with a teen seen a porn movie?Tbh i think i wasnt even a teen when i first saw.
As for the thread, there is already another one in OI i think, so if its something people are both accepted to do, i cant say that there is a reason to condemn their actions.Its their choices(if they are not, its obviously a totally different thing.)

[RotStern]

Great post :D

[Stranger Than Paradise]

The pornography in today's society is oppressive and patriarchal. Therefore this form of pornography cannot and will not exist in communist society. However Pornography, the depiction of erotic acts, as such is not something we should turn our backs on. It should be freely depicted based on the principles of equality.

[JJM 777]

Can you imagine a planned economy which dedicates some resources to the production of pornography?
Yes, because so many people want it, and in Socialism people decide what to produce.


No one could seriously argue that we dedicate the resources of society to porn when there are so many other much more important things we could do instead.
A pity. I had hoped that in Socialism we would still have unnecessary joys such as computer games, sport, music, movies, art, a'la carte food, beautiful architecture...

Crap, so we'll go back to the Soviet version of life then.


So, the only porn that is possible in a socialist society is amateur porn, filmed by ordinary people with ordinary cameras and shared freely.
By saying so, you actually say that all other people who do work in Socialism will receive labour credits for their work, including artists, but not makers of erotic products. Their work or art will be singled out from everything else whatever is produced in the society, as unholy pariah work unworthy of any labour credits?

But I believe that such opinion would be less popular than an opinion adoring erotic art and willing to reward labour credits for it.

[chegitz guevara]

Given the amount of free porn out there (by which I do not mean stolen porn, but amateurs who put their stuff up for free), I think porn will continue even without a profit motive.

Sex is such a huge part of what we are as animals I can't see it ever not being a part of our society. Even in ferociously anti-sex periods of history, sex manages to find its ways, albeit hidden, into view.

[Luisrah]

Is it a problem if not adults see porn?:blink::blink: Why is that may i ask?Are teenagers too stupid to understand their sexual attractiveness?I see you are own and seems weird to me... What is wrong with a teen seen a porn movie?Tbh i think i wasnt even a teen when i first saw.
As for the thread, there is already another one in OI i think, so if its something people are both accepted to do, i cant say that there is a reason to condemn their actions.Its their choices(if they are not, its obviously a totally different thing.)

Well, it's ill advised for people under 18 to watch pornographical material. ALthough that is very taboo, I always thought that it would have some consequences in the future (don't ask me which)

As for (whoever thought it strange that I ''didn't know'' porn) I just don't watch it usually. I mean, some of my friends do, and when I watch it, it's usually because they tell me about sites and tell me to watch.

Besides, it takes all the fun away from the real game. It makes a simple touch in real life feel like it's nothing special, and that's why I don't watch it.

[Oneironaut]

Well, it's ill advised for people under 18 to watch pornographical material. ALthough that is very taboo, I always thought that it would have some consequences in the future (don't ask me which)

As for (whoever thought it strange that I ''didn't know'' porn) I just don't watch it usually. I mean, some of my friends do, and when I watch it, it's usually because they tell me about sites and tell me to watch.

Besides, it takes all the fun away from the real game. It makes a simple touch in real life feel like it's nothing special, and that's why I don't watch it.

Why once you reach the age of 18 can you suddenly watch porn as opposed to when you were simply one day younger? Arbitrary regulations like that are completely idiotic. In the US, we "don't" drink till we are 21. It isn't like that in most parts of the world. Yet we have much higher death rates resulting from alcohol than most countries. Basically, when people feel deprived of something because it is 'taboo', they gain a misunderstanding of what it is and by the time they can get it, they don't know how to responsibly use it. A much better approach is would be to expose people to what these things often are (patriarchal as fuck) and how they may affect us.

The only consequence for looking at porn is being judged by God at the gates of heaven. Luckily I don't believe in that.

Now, I agree it takes away a lot of the fun. However, I thoroughly enjoy a good time alone. I only go with amateur vids, because there are most definitely fun elements.

This is also a long thread somewhere else... http://www.revleft.com/vb/pornography-left-issuei-t84781/index.html?t=84781&highlight=pornography

[bawbag]

porn will always be alive there will always be a demand for it, personally i see nothing wrong with it, i dont understand why someone must be an adult to see it, fair enough i know what people mean by it being degrading to women.

but if its done artistically, then i think it can be a good thing and should not be condemmed, perhaps even encourage youngsters to see it, and by that i mean, would you rather your child see someone murdering another, which children see, even if in real life, films or television, or see 2 people making love, which is seen as a taboo and hidden away from children for aslong as possible.

I dont see it as a bad thing as i dont see how sex can be a bad thing,

however i must ask while on the subject,
with the money in the porn industry these days, and how it is made, we can agree that the majority of or most popular pornographic material that is going around is not art, so, other there being a camera present, what is the difference between a pornstar and a prostitute?

[Luisrah]

Why once you reach the age of 18 can you suddenly watch porn as opposed to when you were simply one day younger? Arbitrary regulations like that are completely idiotic. In the US, we "don't" drink till we are 21. It isn't like that in most parts of the world. Yet we have much higher death rates resulting from alcohol than most countries. Basically, when people feel deprived of something because it is 'taboo', they gain a misunderstanding of what it is and by the time they can get it, they don't know how to responsibly use it. A much better approach is would be to expose people to what these things often are (patriarchal as fuck) and how they may affect us.


Well, to respond to your first question, of course not. But the 18 year old minimun is a safety minimum.
Because, in general, or atleast in a big part of cases, 18 year olds are more mature than 16, or 14, and under. Of course that a 17 year old with another 364 years on his back IS a 18 year old.
Because it is not so commom (although it should be) that a 12 year old or a 14 year old is mature enough to watch porn or violence scenes, they input a minimum limit.

Because I had a cousin that almost threw himself out of the window wearing a superman cape thinking he would fly, I can think of many reasons as to why porn and violence scenes shouldn't be shown to people like him, and since by age 18 that number of people generally diminishes, I agree with the limit. (as a temporary thing)

Of course that educating the children about such things would be many times more important. Setting a limit like that (according to what I explained) is a lazy thing to do as an alternative to educating and thus relieving the world of some pedophiles, and violent men that go nuts whenever someone disagrees with them.

[ContrarianLemming]

personally, i only watch lesbian porn, i find it far more gentle and less sexist etc i like to see genuine love

[Misanthrope]

personally, i only watch lesbian porn, i find it far more gentle and less sexist etc i like to see genuine love
:laugh:

There is nothing wrong with pornography just as there is nothing wrong with movies or television shows.

[gorillafuck]

personally, i only watch lesbian porn, i find it far more gentle and less sexist etc i like to see genuine love
Wait what?

[Revy]

I love it when sexual moralists jump into any discussion...."prostitution this, sexism that". oh stfu.

Pornography is fine by me.

[chegitz guevara]

personally, i only watch lesbian porn, i find it far more gentle and less sexist etc i like to see genuine love

Yeah, yeah, that's it, me too. :laugh:

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Yes, because so many people want it, and in Socialism people decide what to produce.
Ok, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm betting that people will not vote to devote resources to porn, but of course the decision is actually up to the people.

I made a prediction, not a prescription.

[Black Sheep]

personally, i only watch lesbian porn, i find it far more gentle and less sexist etc i like to see genuine love
:blink::blink::blink:
WHAT?

[rebelmouse]

if some woman want to make porno with me, I am here :laugh:
condition: she must have a camera and we must find someone to record it good. :thumbup1: aaaand, she must like poliamory and be positive about sex.
place: Copenhagen.
(of course, no profit for any of us)

[Искра]

anarchist sex adds :D

[rebelmouse]

anarchist sex adds :D

of course, there is no revolution without sexual revolution! :laugh:
together fight, together enjoying.

[F9]

Back on topic.. please..

[ZeroNowhere]

The problem only starts when people do porn unwillingly (due to poverty, or being forced etc) and when non adults watch it.Wait... When non-adults watch it? Really?


Can you imagine a planned economy which dedicates some resources to the production of pornography?Certainly. Though I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'planned economy'. If you mean that production is determined by a bunch of Neo-Puritan fuckwits (I suppose I'll give the politicians hyping up 'Internet Addiction Syndrome' as an example), then no. But that would suck anyhow.


Because, in general, or atleast in a big part of cases, 18 year olds are more mature than 16, or 14, and under.My experience with 18 year olds, 16 year olds and 14 year olds would seem to suggest otherwise. And really, how is maturity relevant to whether or not somebody can watch pornography? If one were especially mature, one would just listen to 'Ample Destruction' rather than masturbate, but I digress.


Because I had a cousin that almost threw himself out of the window wearing a superman cape thinking he would fly, I can think of many reasons as to why porn and violence scenes shouldn't be shown to people like him, and since by age 18 that number of people generally diminishes, I agree with the limit. (as a temporary thing)Your example would actually seem to suggest that we shouldn't let people under 18 watch Superman.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

I agree with most on this forum: I have no problem with pornography when it is not forced (either by opression or our of necessity (such as povert etc.)) or discriminating.
In Socialist/Communist society I think it should be legal for persons who want to do it, of course there wouldn't be such an industry around it of course.

[JJM 777]

I considered starting a new thread about this what I will say now, not to have these thoughts buried under the rest of this thread, but I write it here anyway:

We all know the "short product life-cycle" preference of Capitalism. The shoes that go broken so quickly, so you must soon buy new shoes. The electronic appliances whose plastic (!) engine parts get broken just a few months after the guarantee period ends. The computers that are "becoming too slow" as Windows updates require more and more CPU power and memory.

But nowhere else have I noticed a more universal and strict "short product life-cycle" policy than in porn industry. All commercial porn, and I mean quite perfectly all that you can ever find on sale anywhere, is carefully designed to be boring after one or two watches, so people want to buy another product.

Simply said, all porn that you can find anywhere is strictly censored. The most delicious babes and/or photos that could be there, are picked away, so that the industry offers only material of medium or low erotic intensity, so people will not remain satisfied with their products for too long time, before they want to buy something more.

I will not go into details here, because some of our readers might experience rising blood pressure in their unSocialistic body organs. Has anyone else thought of porn that hey, instead of this crappy babe they could have a much more delicious babe here, or instead of this boring body position they could easily have something much more delicious here? But they don't and they never will, as long as the business is based on Capitalist "short product life-cycle" principles.

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

Pornography would still exist but not to the same extent. There probably wouldn't be a huge industry built around it and obviously it wouldn't be a ''business'' in the capitalist sense of the word. Amateur videos will always exist now, on the internet and things; I think that's mostly fine. Because of better standards of living, there would be nobody going into it out of desperation or poverty. Finally, sex would not be something that 'sells', nor would it be something that is sold. I have no idea how it would fit into a planned economy, but as long as there's a demand for something I suppose it's always going to be produced.

On a personal level, I dislike porn. It's tacky, unrealistic, cheap, unromantic - most of the time it's not even erotic. And it uses the participants (mostly women) as objects, so in that way it's also quite sexist.

[Luisrah]

Wait... When non-adults watch it? Really?

Your example would actually seem to suggest that we shouldn't let people under 18 watch Superman.

Meaning is that a kid like the one I was talking about (and you know there are a lot) is very easily influenced by what they see on TV or people telling them.

Having a kid watch lots of violence educates him towards that unless he is mature enough. If he watches movies where killing is legal, and if he is constantly annoyed by someone at school, who knows what may happen.

And since I know that porn is made of many different ways such as strangers starting to do it, or a someone who is about to be arrested offers to do a little job to the cop, or a middle aged man having sex with a teen (atleast it's what they state) what's there to stop kids from becoming pedophiles or rapists because of that?

I am not against ''underaged'' people watching porn. Very far from that, while not encouraging, I see absolutely no problem.
But the problem is that porn nowadays has scenes that might and most probably do interfere with the minds and education of viewers that aren't so discrete (as I stated in the above paragraph)

I agree to the age limit because in today's society, not every (and far from many) teens are educated towards having responsible sex, and towards those scenes I mentioned. Of course that I prefer not having a limit because everyone is informed. The problem is that they aren't, and the age limit (besides being a lazy thing because governments do that instead of educating teens) is a good thing WHILE not everyone is educated towards only watching the porn itself and not the non-educative scenes or until these un-educative scenes no longer exist.