EDL for beginners

[Holden Caulfield]

I know some of you, especially our non-UK posters, may not know who the EDL are so here is a brief summary of the group. If you have any more questions go ahead and post them, I'll do my best to answer them.

English Defence League (EDL)

Although they claim not to be a fascist group, a violent group or affilitated with the BNP the claims of the EDL just don't stand up. Set up by a BNP member and comprising of racist football casuals, ultra-nationalists, sieg heiling Nazis, and BNP boneheads the EDL have gone back to the Oswald Mosley school of fascism. Going off on 'anti-Islamic' marches and claiming to be non-violent while trying to kick the heads of ethnic minorities hasn't won the EDL many friends, and they have had the same levels of sucess as Oswald did at Cable Steet.

Not satisfied at playing cat and mouse around Luton & Birmingham with working class youths the EDL recent brainwave was to march again the Harrow Mosque located in one of the most culturally diverse areas on London. This feat of BUF-esque genius saw them literally being forced to flee out of town by hundreds of locals. For their next trick: March on Manchester, we await the results eagerly.

Politically the EDL play the role of the former BNP/NF bootboys who had to tidy up their image when the Griffin era's 'boots to suits' mantra became gospel. The EDL came about as a outlet for fascist violence that can claim not to tarnish the BNP's 'legitimate democratic party' line of defence. The EDL marches are not a-political or simply anti-islam as they claim, they are the return of fascism to the streets and as anti-islam (in the form of progressive anti-islamism) as Hitler was a constructive critic of Judaistic teachings.

To get an image of the EDL and the role they could play, think of the BNP circa 1992 and the Battle of Waterloo Station, or the NF at Lewisham.

Needless to say the EDL need to be opposed, and my advice for militant anti-fascists at one of their 'peaceful marches' would be to be prepared to be as 'peaceful' as the EDL will be with you.

A few links:
English Defence League is BNP front group (http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/07/433945.html) (Indymedia)
the English Defence League (http://www.***************/forum/showthread.php?t=636990) (from Stormfront)
An account of the EDL counterprotest in Brum (http://www.revleft.com/vb/account-edl-birmingham-t116808/index.html) (revleft)
EDL national tour (http://www.revleft.com/vb/english-defence-league-t116688/index.html) (revleft)
Harrow Mosque protest (http://www.revleft.com/vb/anti-islam-harrow-t116824/index.html) (revleft)

[Pogue]

Composition of the EDL

The English Defence League's membership is almost exclusively white male aged between 16-60. It would appear that they function as a travelling firm - as evidenced by the fact the same faces attend esch demonstration with roughly the same numbers.

The organisation has only ever really peaked with 100 people attending their demonstration mainly coming from UK football firms. The football firm element is seen in the 'casual' dress style as well as the fact that a large chunk of the group come from 'Casuals United', a group formed from football hooligans from various UK clubs coming together to pursue their far-right wing agenda.

One of their main members, you could say the 'leader', is a BNP activist from Weston Super Mare, and a number of well known far-right activists have been involved, as seen by the Nazi salutes and shirts sporting the name of the gas used to murder Jews during the Holocaust.

What do they do?

Similar to the NF etc in the 70s and 80s they generaly walk around trying to look intimidating. Their style is basically to get tanked up on beer prior to a demo before swaggering along the route of their 'march' usually before the agreed start time. They chant 'England' in football style as well as other nationalist songs like 'Rule Britannia'. They have been violent from the beginning - in their first major outing in Luton they rampaged through the town, smashing the windows of shops and houses owned by Asians (not extremists, just anyone who was Asian).

As like the typical fascist and bully type in large groups following alcohol consumption they have alot of 'bravado' - they will square off, shout abuse and attempt to attack anti-fascists/Asians. They have even gone around in packs targetting lone Asians on buses and attacking them at will (anyone who is Asian, regardless of what they have or haven't done or what they believe). However they are not incredibly brave or intelligent, when they outnumbered anti-fascists in Birmingham they hesistated from taking us on and were easily pushed off the streets.

When met with militancy and as demonstrated by accounts and youtube videos when met with a militant response they tend to bottle it and run away. This is not unsual for people who are brave in packs but when the grim reality of streetfighting appears they don't cut it.

This is signficant as it means when anti-fascists group together they are intimidated as was seen in Harrow, where they had a meagre 20-30 people crowded behind police lines, or Birmingham, where they were less then brave even when they were numerically superior.

[Melbourne Lefty]

They also hold up signs saying "Black and white unite" openly welcome black, mixed race and asian people who wish to join them [so far according to the blogs and chatter about 2 mixed race blokes in total].

They wave Israeli and indian flags and denounce the BNP. The BNP in turn denounces them and says that any BNP member caught going to their protests will be thrown out of the party. The BNP has even suggested that they are set up by the state.

People who try to conflate the BNP and EDL for activist reasons are kidding themselves. Go out on the net and read the blogs by the people who run the EDL, they are anti-racist and pro-Israel, they just hate muslims.

Its lazy thinking by lazy thinkers, and quite frankly I expected better. The likes of the UAF chanted to tv cameras about how the EDL were actually the BNP in Birmingham, and then the camera flicked over to the vision of a vista of a couple dozen banners over the EDL crew all saying "We are not the BNP". The people here are supposed to be smarter than the UAF types.
Seriously, its time to stop lying, the EDL are anti-muslim and they stir up hate, is that not enough reason to oppose them? Does everyone have to be a fucking fascist? Does the word even mean anything any more?

Go to scumfront and take a look at what they feel about the EDL, its all a sea of "tools of the jews" etc.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm not familiar with the EDL, but I fail to see how animosity between them and the BNP or their selective scapegoating and xenophobia would make them not fascist.

In the US, we have all stripes of fascist groups and thankfully they are not very organized. So some are untra-patriot and hate neo-nazis for their support of Hitler and Nazi Germany. There are pegan fascists who are hated by Christian Identiy fascists. There are anti-immigrant fascists who openly try and recruit black people in order to mainstream their fascism.

To me the defining theing about fascist groups is that they go out to intimidae and brutalize dissenters. If the EDL are marching through arab and immigrant neighborhoods they are doing so to intimidate people and are essentially no different than US minutmen protesting outside places where immigrant day-laborers come to find work.

[mumba miss]

they are a useful group to us communists.
They legitemise our fighting with them and other racist groups, making us the good guys in the media, and bringing more attention to our cause

[nuisance]

Perhaps a short write up could be added to the opposition sticky.

[Pogue]

To be honest mate, firstly, are you really qualified to even lecture us about this. I don't see what research or activism you've done in regards to this group that we've missed out on.


They also hold up signs saying "Black and white unite" openly welcome black, mixed race and asian people who wish to join them [so far according to the blogs and chatter about 2 mixed race blokes in total].

They went around Birmingham in packs attacking lone Asians, regardless of whether or not they had done or said anything. They have one black member, do you think maybe there is a reason why there is only one black guy and no Asians? Do you think an Asian person would be made welcome in their ranks? Why do you think it is they will happily storm into a crowd of Muslims fists swinging?


They wave Israeli and indian flags and denounce the BNP. The BNP in turn denounces them and says that any BNP member caught going to their protests will be thrown out of the party. The BNP has even suggested that they are set up by the state.

They wave Israeli and Indian flags to fool mugs like you into thinking they are somehow tolerant or internationalist. Israel flags also serve to wind up Muslims. Did you know they have members who wear shirts with nothing but 'Zyklon B' on them, the gas that was used to murder victims of the Holocaust?

If they are not linked to the BNP why is their founding member closely connected to the party? Why are a number of activists members of both organisations? Why do they have the same slogans?

Do you not think this is a convenient bit of official denial from both groups? Does it even matter? They both serve each others agenda. Our analysis is the EDL is what the BNP want to do, hence why there is alot of crossover in membership. The BNP could not go on the streets, everyone knows them and hates them too much. The EDL uses its non-racist bullshit rhetoric to try and justify their presence on the streets. Look at the 'United People of Luton' - populism masquerading a far right agenda.

The BNP also says Antifa were set up by the state. Go figure.


People who try to conflate the BNP and EDL for activist reasons are kidding themselves. Go out on the net and read the blogs by the people who run the EDL, they are anti-racist and pro-Israel, they just hate muslims.

Hmmmm, anti-racists who hate Muslims and attack Asian people on sight. It doesn't take a genius...



Its lazy thinking by lazy thinkers, and quite frankly I expected better. The likes of the UAF chanted to tv cameras about how the EDL were actually the BNP in Birmingham, and then the camera flicked over to the vision of a vista of a couple dozen banners over the EDL crew all saying "We are not the BNP". The people here are supposed to be smarter than the UAF types.


The irony here is delicious. While I disagree with UAF's tactics and I too find the chants about the BNP to be crap because although the groups are linked as I explained, we are confronting the EDL on these demos, you are way out of line.

Firstly, not everyone who confronts them subscribes to that line, I certainly don't.

You expected better? What the fuck mate, your an armchair fucking leftist, your not even involved in anti-fascism, and you expected better? I expect better than idiots like you whinging on a forum about how everyone else is doing it wrong. At least even the UAF types are doing something. Who the fuck do you think you are?


Seriously, its time to stop lying, the EDL are anti-muslim and they stir up hate, is that not enough reason to oppose them? Does everyone have to be a fucking fascist? Does the word even mean anything any more?

Yes, it does mean something and we use it appropriately. These guys are fascists if we ever saw them, just as the BNP, NF, BM, etc are fascists. The groups intentions and means of going about its business is fascist.


Go to scumfront and take a look at what they feel about the EDL, its all a sea of "tools of the jews" etc.

Oh, I guess if Scumfront says it then it must be true :rolleyes:

Quite simply you don't have a clue. This is what I'd expect from someone who only ever talks about this stuff on a forum and doesn't get involved. You've formulated some pet theory about how we're all approaching this wrong and you want to lampoon us with it. You can fuck off. We've seen this group, we know alot of its members from their previous involvement in fascism, I've been out on the streets and been attacked by them and seen what they say and how they behave. You know fuck all but what your mind has constructed. So stop acting like you can lecture us on this because quite frankly you are talking shit.

[Pogue]

Yeh I think something should be added. I'd be happy to write it, I've done alot of discussing and research on this group and have been out against them a couple of times (and more times in the future) so I could do that easily.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Go to scumfront and take a look at what they feel about the EDL, its all a sea of "tools of the jews" etc.

0_o

Stormfront fucking love the EDL:

http://www.***************/forum/showthread.php?t=638991&highlight=harrow

[The Ungovernable Farce]

The EDL website was set up by Chris Renton. Chris Renton is a BNP activist. It's not like this is some big antifa secret, it's been reported in the sodding Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6794080.ece).

[Holden Caulfield]

Pogue said alot of what I wanted to say, albeit differently from how I would have said it.

But Mel if you believe what you posted it is you, and not us, who are guilty of 'lazy thinking'.

The BNP will deny it, all of EDL do not know it, but if you look at their roles within society and politics then we are pretty much bang on with our summary. Remember when the C18 searchlight mole said Griffin came to the pub with them and spoke of his support, why do you think he would feel any differently about EDL and the job the EDL do in whipping up racial tensions and also of being the violent wing of ultra-right politics. Do you think that if a BNP member was discovered to be C18 (or something similar) Griffin would not be forced by the party image to remove them from the party, yet he still has claimed to support C18 in private.

It could have been set up as a front group, it could have been set up as something seperate, it doesn't matter. If you think it is not a help to the BNP then I suppose you also think that their Solidarity Union is also seperate. And I suppose when SWP members try to claim UAF isn't 'their baby' you will blindly swallow that pill as well?

What myself and Pogue have said is based on what has been seen first hand and from reports we read from a number of sources, including far right ones, whereas you seem to have pulled what you say out of your arse.

[Holden Caulfield]

@ Pogue, I wasn't sure about putting EDL in the opposition thing thats why i posted it here in this thread in a slightly different format, but if people want it in their I would be more than happy to edit in an article if you send me a short article on them (roughly the same length as the others in their).

While I'm at it I'll try to get other updates for that sticky

[Pogue]

@ Pogue, I wasn't sure about putting EDL in the opposition thing thats why i posted it here in this thread in a slightly different format, but if people want it in their I would be more than happy to edit in an article if you send me a short article on them (roughly the same length as the others in their).

While I'm at it I'll try to get other updates for that sticky

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be there, most anti-fascists I know consider them to belong to the ranks of all the other groups in there, they are as or mroe fascist than many of the listed organisations.

[Fidel Follower]

Pogue that was the best owning i've seen in awhile -in a nut shell i completely agree with everything you said about the EDL being fascists. I know the Guardian is a bit protentious but there's an interesting article in the Weekend edition that gives a factual account of who the EDL are, what they have planned and comparisons to the early 1930's fascists of Britain.
They also have a page all about the right which has some pieces of interesting info.
www.guardian.co.uk/farright (http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright)
(i think it's down atm)

[MilitantAnarchist]

Im not sure what i can add to this... I dont believe for a second EDL aint racist. I get what they mean by being a 'reaction' to certain things that are going on, but they aren't intelligent enough to see who really is to blame... the government (for some reason i cant understand they still blaim jews tho)...... I hate the way all these right wing twats say 'we hate muslim extremists' but i would make a bet the 99.9% of the world fucking hate muslim extremists! Fucking UAF is an embaressment, they turn up at these things and make all antifascists look like morons.
No matter how small EDL is, they have more members and supports then Antifa. Where are the so called 'Antifa Hooligans' to combat these fuckers! We should be out there giving bollox to EDL, UAF and the Islam extremists (the real Islam extremists not the normal Muslims EDL target)

I'm sure no one will agree with me here and just twist my words, but, as always i stand by them.

P.S How come they have just suddenly become our biggest enemy overnight, their just a bunch of tossers that have given themselves a gang name. Our streets are full of tossers just like ELD, just without the label.

[Holden Caulfield]

Where are the so called 'Antifa Hooligans' to combat these fuckers

The EDL were chased off of the streets by locals on more than one occasion, I don't think we should be crying out for 'antifa hooligans' to parachute into areas and act like supermen with a messiah complex. There may well have been militant antifascists on these demos, and we would hope there was. However for the group, who openly promote violence and could be rounded up and nicked at any point for it, to proclaim where they will be from the roof tops wouldn't be a wise move. Especially in a city centre covered in CCTV and coppers, and when something near to 200 people got nicked last time in Brum.

However all that said, the tumble weed blowing thru the antifa website is worrying, the group cannot remain silent and above criticism for ever. The group has faced serious issues but even that cannot be used as an excuse for their total silence on pretty heavy issues that alot of people would look to them for an opinion on.

Hopefully this will be resolved sooner than later, and until then I guess people on this forum (myself, pogue, EP) who have in the past spouted the 'antifa party line' will do our best to fill in the void of opinion left by the silence of antifa.

[Pogue]

The lack of updates on the website is an issue and it needs to be dealt with, I understand intitally why it happened but I agree it needs to be sorted out.

If you think there was no militant anti-fascist presence on these demonstrations you are being naive and ignorant. They were there, but the situation in Harrow meant there was no need for them to act and the situation in Central London meant it was impossible to do so. I also think you misunderstand the reality of what it is like to be a known militant anti-fascist - you hardly go shouting it about, and the police also recognise you and promptly act to ensure you are demobilised (FIT, bans, arrests). Such difficulties are the reality of such work and it would be absurd to assume otherwise. This however does not mean comrades would not do what they had to in a situation where it was neccesary.

[Pogue]

Im not sure what i can add to this... I dont believe for a second EDL aint racist. I get what they mean by being a 'reaction' to certain things that are going on, but they aren't intelligent enough to see who really is to blame... the government (for some reason i cant understand they still blaim jews tho)...... I hate the way all these right wing twats say 'we hate muslim extremists' but i would make a bet the 99.9% of the world fucking hate muslim extremists! Fucking UAF is an embaressment, they turn up at these things and make all antifascists look like morons.
No matter how small EDL is, they have more members and supports then Antifa. Where are the so called 'Antifa Hooligans' to combat these fuckers! We should be out there giving bollox to EDL, UAF and the Islam extremists (the real Islam extremists not the normal Muslims EDL target)

I'm sure no one will agree with me here and just twist my words, but, as always i stand by them.

P.S How come they have just suddenly become our biggest enemy overnight, their just a bunch of tossers that have given themselves a gang name. Our streets are full of tossers just like ELD, just without the label.

No one is saying they are our 'biggest enemy', as if we would ever say such a thing or meaningfully act on it. We see a clearly dangerous far right wing organisation and mobilise to try and deal with it. They clearly are not like any other bunch of tossers, as they organise, mobilise and demonstrate, hence we oppose them. I don't really understand your point, you seem to be accusing us of not doing anything then saying we do too much. Maybe you could get involved in anti-fascism and show us how its done.

[Tjis]

So where did the EDL come from? I don't remember hearing anything about them one month ago.

[Lyev]

They started as a counter to an islamic march for something, I can't remember what it was for. At first I think it was more of a patriotic thing, I'm not sure. They started talking over the internet with other guys and then starting recruiting ignorant football hooligans. Here's their wanky website. http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/ 'England has fallen to Islam'- stuff like that is fucking dangerous.

[Holden Caulfield]

I think...

that they really started to form after radical islamists protested returning troops, out of the upsurge of nationalism in the press and the indignation of right wing anti-islamist members of the working class they kinda came together.

I think...

the groups origins are in a counter radical-islam yet a not as far right group/movement called 'march for england' and from right-wing football casuals who came together on a website and a grouplet called 'firms reunited'.

out of this EDL was brought together, the website is ran by a BNP member, and the politics of the group (there are non officially) are the same as the BNPs, all the BNP said to criticse them was that they were too confrontational.

this has all been pretty recently.

I very well might be wrong with my history of the EDL, and am happy to be corrected, but that is how I have seen it progressing.

I did my best, hope that helps

[MilitantAnarchist]

No one is saying they are our 'biggest enemy', as if we would ever say such a thing or meaningfully act on it. We see a clearly dangerous far right wing organisation and mobilise to try and deal with it. They clearly are not like any other bunch of tossers, as they organise, mobilise and demonstrate, hence we oppose them. I don't really understand your point, you seem to be accusing us of not doing anything then saying we do too much. Maybe you could get involved in anti-fascism and show us how its done.

I am doing just that... I'm a writer and im trying to do a piece on this whole thing, but its difficult to infiltrate a right wing element with ANTIFA tattooed down the middle of my arm. At the moment i would class myself as a 'dormant militant anti fascist' (that is meant to sound as pathetic as it does). I know it sounds like some kind of cop out, but i stand by what i beleive, but at the minute it isnt possible for me to be militant because of some personal shit im going through.
I'm not accusing anyone of doing the wrong thing, not really, but the right wing have got it sussed, as you said they mobilise and demonstrate, unfortunately with good effect. Now we have no REAL equivalent to EDL or C18 or any of the other tossheads the right has... To me the media opinion is not important as it is always inflated to sell more newspapers, but in the publics eye, our voice there that day was UAF, and I really dont wanna be linked up to them fools. To get anywhere against fascists, we need the support of the public, or at least an understanding. A lot of people do relate with what BNP and EDL say, no matter how much i hate it, and we all hate it here, and that is because they have easy answers and catchy slogans like 'British jobs for British workers' and 'We hate muslim extremists', but if anyone with half a brain stopped to thing, we all want jobs and we all hate muslim extremists.
To be honest, i dont no what im getting at, and i hate to use business man speak, but there is a 'gap in the market' for our thing, we have no 'fear factor' or 'street presence' but if we had an equivalent to EDL that the media would jump on the back of and say OH MY GOD LOOK AT THESE NUTTERS!!!!!! People would listen to what WE had to say, and we could explain the truths of the whole thing without the BRITISH AND PROUD bollocks.
Im not saying that i am right, but EDL and BNP need something to fear, even if we go under a 'legit' banner like they do.

[Holden Caulfield]

seems like everybody is crying out for antifa england to resurface re-modelled on our european counter parts.

lets all hope eh

[Partizani]

Haha i bet they regret using Free forums, just visited them and the advert on the left was for 'The International Muslim Matrimonial Site'.

[Holden Caulfield]

I was in the pub with a comrade today and he made some interesting points:

How long do you think EDL will survive after the media get bored and leave them alone, and the football season gets up to full steam?

[MilitantAnarchist]

I was in the pub with a comrade today and he made some interesting points:

How long do you think EDL will survive after the media get bored and leave them alone, and the football season gets up to full steam?

Good point, i think they will end up like RVF, just a bunch of sad old pissed off tossers sat at computer screens wanking over pictures of underage aryan girls... more then likely...

[Spawn of Stalin]

To be honest I think EDL will get bored before the media do, there's only so much excitement Paki bashing, screaming "England", and generally acting like a brainless idiot can bring.

[Holden Caulfield]

To be honest I think EDL will get bored before the media do, there's only so much excitement Paki bashing, screaming "England", and generally acting like a brainless idiot can bring.

they will all get nicked before they get bored, what with there only being a core of around 30 of them, and they do all their 'demos' in city centres