OI New York Draft Riots Thread

[Richard Nixon]

(http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Draft_Riots)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Draft_Riots (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Draft_Riots)

I only just heard about these through watching Gangs of New York. I hadn't heard of them before. I was shocked to hear about what happened and quite upset really. The film does the events justice, I think. Basically, this started out as anger coming from the working class directed against the rich and the government because of the fact they were being drafted to fight for the Union whereas the rich could pay 300 dollars to avoid being conscripted. Police stations and government offices were burned. However this quickly turned into something of a pogrom as African-Americans were targetted as scapegoats, being seen as the cause of the war by some and just as an easy target by an angry crowd. This upset me because form seeing it portrayed in film I thought I was watching an early proletarian revolt against the rich I hadn't seen before but it was distressing to hear that black people, even children were targetted. This clear evidence of a historical distortion of working class anger is saddening. I have even read that police had to stop rioters from attacking a black orphanage at one point.

I was also wondering what you do in such a situation, where people were angry at the rich and the state but it was being violently directed in the wrong direction, and the problem and anger that would cause, as working class people were targetting other working class people and not the police, rich and state, the common enemy.

Thoughts?

This was an interesting and I would like to post. As for what I would do I would help mow down the rampaging rioters with available weapons and help the authorities in general.

[danyboy27]

you know, if there was some assoles killing innocents people in my neigborhood, i would get a weapon, get my family together and establish some kind of perimeter in my neighborhood. i would collaborate with the state if necessary but i wouldnt do the dirty work for him. i dont consider opposing the state a valid option when the support isnt widespread.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I would probably have gone to California.

Fight the war with drinking games.

[Plagueround]

you know, if there was some assoles killing innocents people in my neigborhood, i would get a weapon, get my family together and establish some kind of perimeter in my neighborhood. i would collaborate with the state if necessary but i wouldnt do the dirty work for him. i dont consider opposing the state a valid option when the support isnt widespread.

But would you have been you in 1863? ;)

[FreeFocus]

I don't care why a person is shooting at me, and shooting at me because I'm brown and you thinking its all right to do that because that's the way society conditioned you isn't sufficient reason for me to not send you to the ground for it. Fact is, the protesters may have been angry for the right reasons, but directed their anger in such a way that they became wholly reactionary, racist and frankly terroristic.

[Plagueround]

It's an important piece of history because the civil war period is generally presented as a unified and patriotic north against the traitorous south. As with most periods in american history, the time was filled with class struggle, militancy, and challenges to the power elite as they scramble to make appeasing concessions, things that are often discarded in favor of making america look noble and moral. It is also, unfortunately, a tragic and disappointing demonstration of people finding a scapegoat and making victims of them.

Interestingly enough, some of my ancestors fought on the side of the south.

[danyboy27]

But would you have been you in 1863? ;)

somehow neutral, i would get my people together and take control of a sector, protect it from any kind of social disturbance. i would contact governement official announcing them that i wouldnt engage them in combat. once all this shit will be over i would hand over the control of the zone to the governement.

beccause lets face it, there is no chance in hell a bunch of rag tag people could have matched the union troops.

[Richard Nixon]

Also I should note that these types of mobs are usually very cowardly and if a few well trained soldiers come up and fire a few shots they'll all run away.

[khad]

It's an important piece of history because the civil war period is generally presented as a unified and patriotic north against the traitorous south. As with most periods in american history, the time was filled with class struggle, militancy, and challenges to the power elite as they scramble to make appeasing concessions, things that are often discarded in favor of making america look noble and moral. It is also, unfortunately, a tragic and disappointing demonstration of people finding a scapegoat and making victims of them.

Interestingly enough, some of my ancestors fought on the side of the south.

The typical leftist interpretations of this event ignore much of the broader political context. I have a hard time believing that there was a genuine proletarian uprising in this or that this could have developed into something with liberatory potential.

The draft fees must be viewed in conjunction with the institution of draft fees in general, which includes the American South. In fact, what is left out of the typical historical narrative is that some 90%+ of those who could not pay the draft fee had their draft fees paid through various political machines. This was particularly true with Tammany Hall in NYC and the Irish community.

What the $300 fee did in effect was to put a cap on substitution costs (since finding someone to take one's place was such a common practice back then). It also restricted mercenary activity somewhat. This is contrasted with what happened with the Confederate Army, where people were being paid 2000 or 3000 dollars to stand in for someone else. Given this alternative, what the Union did was incredibly astute. Instead of enriching mercenaries, exemption fees would go directly to the government, and, as it turned out, those who really didn't want to go didn't have to because those fees would have been paid by their political representatives. Tammany had deep, deep pockets.

As for the riot itself, I think it would be informative to take a somewhat "long view" of American urban violence. In many ways it was a continuation of the epidemic of brutal race riots that swept through American cities like Philadelphia throughout the 1830s and 40s, which resulted in the suppression of the public life of free blacks in the North.

[Pogue]

I don't care why a person is shooting at me, and shooting at me because I'm brown and you thinking its all right to do that because that's the way society conditioned you isn't sufficient reason for me to not send you to the ground for it. Fact is, the protesters may have been angry for the right reasons, but directed their anger in such a way that they became wholly reactionary, racist and frankly terroristic.

Was this targetted at me? Because obviously I see a difference between understanding why they targetted black people and apologising for it...clearly I was doing the former.

[FreeFocus]

Was this targetted at me? Because obviously I see a difference between understanding why they targetted black people and apologising for it...clearly I was doing the former.

I was speaking generally. How would I be targeting you if you hadn't posted in the thread prior to this? :lol: I didn't see any of your comments elsewhere on the topic.