No Revolutionary Proletariat = No FW Revolution

[AvanteRedGarde]

First World workers don't want revolution. The reason for this is because they benefit from the current global class structure.

Prove me wrong

[AvanteRedGarde]

Serious, how else can you explain why every single 'revolutionary' party or group are incredibly insignificant over the wide scheme of things. The so-called Lefts love with the so-called American working class is a one way relationship. Face it trot/"post-maoist"/"social-anarchist", the American "working class" does not want you.

[KC]

Cool story bro.

[OneNamedNameLess]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02iX20a0I92im/340x.jpg

Would you like more?

[Ele'ill]

First World workers don't want revolution. The reason for this is because they benefit from the current global class structure.

Prove me wrong

I think that middle to lower class workers all over the world want change. They just don't trust people in masks smashing cars and throwing paint on police. That's what they see of the left because much of the left is obsessed with its own image and encourages - internally - violent public behavior.

The left in America is like a teenage girl that just discovered her breasts.

She realizes she has something that's watched but at the same time this thing that's watched has the potential to put the person in a situation that may completely destroy its life.

The attention from it may lead to harmful encounters.

[9]

First World workers don't want revolution. The reason for this is because they benefit from the current global class structure.

Prove me wrong


Serious, how else can you explain why every single 'revolutionary' party or group are incredibly insignificant over the wide scheme of things. The so-called Lefts love with the so-called American working class is a one way relationship. Face it trot/"post-maoist"/"social-anarchist", the American "working class" does not want you.

So what are you saying? "First World revolutionary leftists, you will always be an insignificant minority, go join your fellow reactionaries where you belong!" ?

What a productive perspective. What exactly are you seeking to achieve?

[Eat the Rich]

What a classical petit-bourgeois thought.
I always wondered, have the third-worldists ever talked to a first world worker, or at least observe how he/she lives and gets by?
Because face it, most third worldist are petit-bourgeois with a warm heart, that love the revolutions and struggle far far away, but have a mortal fear of actualy engaging in it at home. It is probably the fear of losing their priviledges under capitalism, being petit-bourgeois and pretty well-off themselves.

[JohnnyC]

First World workers don't want revolution.

So what?Neither do majority of workers from Nigeria, why don't you complain about that?


The reason for this is because they benefit from the current global class structure.
First of all that isn't an argument we could refute, it's just your baseless opinion.And second, if you think that ANY worker benefit from current class system then you really need to brush up your Marxism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_labour#Critique_of_wage_labour

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_labour

[eyedrop]

First World workers don't want revolution. The reason for this is because they benefit from the current global class structure.

Prove me wrong

Easy;

Wage costs: 123 Billion NOK
Value added: 280 billion NOK

Industrial workers are expoited for (280-123) 157 billion NOK every year.

Source (http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/10/07/industri_en/)

[OneNamedNameLess]

Easy;

Wage costs: 123 Billion NOK
Value added: 280 billion NOK

Industrial workers are expoited for (280-123) 157 billion NOK every year.

Source (http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/10/07/industri_en/)

Forget the stats although I appreciate you providing them.

If you are familiar with and accept some of the bare bones of Marxist theory, then the standard of living of first world workers should not matter. Capitalism's ethics are poor which you, as a communist, should acknowledge. First world workers face the threat of unemployment and are victims of alienation and wage slavery. Why turn your back on them? We are internationalists after all are we not?

[eyedrop]

Forget the stats although I appreciate you providing them.

Well he asked us to prove and it's kinda hard to theoretically prove it, isn't that direct proof of why the industrial workers would benefit from a management change besides all the psychological reasons for why it sucks to work for someone. Some Third Worldists seems incapable of grasping that a "first world" economy is incredible productive and that workers are still made money off. The reason why first world worker are better of is because they are working in a productive economy. It's not likely if we had a world revolution today that we would degrade the productive sectors of modern economies to be less productive. We would rather work to make other countries more productive.

[Muzk]

First World workers don't want revolution. The reason for this is because they benefit from the current global class structure.

Prove me wrong


We are the proof

[Jazzratt]

What a productive perspective. What exactly are you seeking to achieve?

Third-worldist nutters don't want to achieve things, silly, any achievements would make them feel less able to be self righteous pricks.

[Muzk]

Third-worldist nutters don't want to achieve things, silly, any achievements would make them feel less able to be self righteous pricks.


Generalizations are the nazis friend, not ours

[Jazzratt]

Generalizations are the nazis friend, not ours

What the fuck are you talking about?

[red cat]

First World workers don't want revolution. The reason for this is because they benefit from the current global class structure.

Prove me wrong

Due to imperialist plunder and super-profits in the Third World, the First World ruling class(imperialists) can afford to have slightly better social and living conditions for the oppressed classes at home. This also means that the huge pockets of extreme deprivation which cradle the revolution at its initial stages is absent in the First World. But this hardly means that the First World working class is reactionary in nature, because they are at the bottom of the class hierarchy of their country nevertheless, and would benefit greatly from the revolution. Since their movements generally revolve around trade unions due to absence of these pockets, the leaders can be bought off rather easily and it is only a small fraction that constitutes the labour aristocracy. I would rather blame the subjective conditions, i.e. the failure of the Communist movement there to educate the workers, for their ignorance. Anyway, I doubt whether a large majority of the workers are still being effectively deluded by the working class, because of the huge rallies in the past few years that supported the revolutions in the Third World and proposed radicalism for their own countries as well.

[rebelmouse]

First World workers don't want revolution. The reason for this is because they benefit from the current global class structure.
Prove me wrong

that is general statement without analyze.
I am agreed that majority of workers in western countries don't want revolution, because:
-they grew up under control of ruling class (education, media, etc)
-they became soft after so many years of enjoying life and they don't want to risk
-they got better life than people in Soviet Union and Cuba and China, so, socialism didn't succeed to show itself as better for people, and people like people are mostly interested for enjoying (car, laptop, holiday in tenerifa, etc). Yugoslavia had, for me, the richest socialism, plus open borders, but again, communist party had no interest to let people to make rebellion. so, people were under control again. but western are topic, not Yugoslavians.

so, western people will get wish for revolution when they loose jobs more and more (because of this financial crisis and because corporations move production/factories to Asia) although their revolution will be soft and authorities will not have so big problem to destroy it. so, they will need to repeat trying more times until they learn lesson. if they don't do it, they will have to accept poverty.
don't forget one thing: people from west have everything, but it is not their property, when they loose job, they loose laptop, car, house, etc.
so there is potential for revolution, but people will have to learn in fight against authorities how to fight in order to win.

[RGacky3]

Easy;

Wage costs: 123 Billion NOK
Value added: 280 billion NOK

Industrial workers are expoited for (280-123) 157 billion NOK every year.

Source (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/10/07/industri_en/)

And this is JUST manufacturing and JUST in Norway (which happens to be probably the most egalitarian country with the most socialist principles in play in the western world), this does not include white collar workers, and with such a large profit margin in NORWAY, imagen what it is in the United States, or the UK.

The fact is in western countries Capitalism and the control is MUCH more sophisticated than in third world countries, also the benefit that first world workers get from third world workers is much less than the benefit they would get through revolution, also it can be argued that third world workers also benefit from first world prosperity (this is what free market nutjobs argue).

The fact is this:



What a classical petit-bourgeois thought.
I always wondered, have the third-worldists ever talked to a first world worker, or at least observe how he/she lives and gets by?
Because face it, most third worldist are petit-bourgeois with a warm heart, that love the revolutions and struggle far far away, but have a mortal fear of actualy engaging in it at home. It is probably the fear of losing their priviledges under capitalism, being petit-bourgeois and pretty well-off themselves.


I could not have put it better myself, many many first world workers struggle for basic survival too, not get your head out of your ass.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

What a classical petit-bourgeois thought.
I always wondered, have the third-worldists ever talked to a first world worker, or at least observe how he/she lives and gets by?
Because face it, most third worldist are petit-bourgeois with a warm heart, that love the revolutions and struggle far far away, but have a mortal fear of actualy engaging in it at home. It is probably the fear of losing their priviledges under capitalism, being petit-bourgeois and pretty well-off themselves.
This. Exactly. I kind of love third-worldists, there's something nice and comforting about them. I may feel like I'm broke, and can only pay my rent because I'm on housing benefit, but apparently I'm actually part of the global ruling class. Go me.

[eyedrop]

And this is JUST manufacturing and JUST in Norway (which happens to be probably the most egalitarian country with the most socialist principles in play in the western world), this does not include white collar workers, and with such a large profit margin in NORWAY, imagen what it is in the United States, or the UK.

I also tried to find the stats for the US and UK, but I was unable. I'm not sure if it's just their national census institutions which suck, or if i looked in the wrong places.