Invasion of USA

[Radical]

Would you support a Military Invasion of USA if it was backed by enough military support?

[Orange Juche]

Would you support a Military Invasion of USA if it was backed by enough military support?

What does an invasion succeed in doing, in terms of advancing democracy, freedom, and proletarian liberation?

You can't just force these things on people. You have to change their minds, or nothing will really be accomplished.

[Radical]

What does an invasion succeed in doing, in terms of advancing democracy, freedom, and proletarian liberation?

You can't just force these things on people. You have to change their minds, or nothing will really be accomplished.

In Americas situation. Put an end to the acts of violence and war they force across the World.

[Sam_b]

Can this nonsense be moved to chit-chat?

[Bankotsu]

I would support a peaceful strategy to end U.S unipolar world, end their aggressive wars and create a multipolar world.

[Radical]

Can this nonsense be moved to chit-chat?

I think it's a fairly warranted ON-TOPIC Question

[Orange Juche]

In Americas situation. Put an end to the acts of violence and war they force across the World.

But is a full scale invasion necessary to accomplish that?

[Radical]

But is a full scale invasion necessary to accomplish that?

Thats why I made this thread

[9]

This is a strange question.
First, it is exceptionally vague. An invasion of the US by whom? For what purpose?
Based on the extremely limited information you've provided, my answer is no. I don't see any benefit which would come from such a measure. Even if it were a "socialist" "regime", so called, doing the invading, I'm not sure what the benefit would be without further elaboration. One certain result of such an invasion would be the predictable upsurge in rightwing sentiment. This wouldn't benefit the revolutionary proletariat in the US in any way, and would almost certainly make them an even smaller minority among the general US proletariat. So, strategically speaking, I really see no good that would come of this at all. But it might be wise to elaborate on the question and provide some context.

[Sam_b]

Well that depends on your definition Radical, a preamble if you will, and conditions to make this a real discussion rather than a one-liner of vagueness with a poll for the hell of it.

Define your terms. Are we talking about the current first of all? In other words, you would support another inter-imperialist conflict?

[Radical]

In the context of ending US Imperialism and power spreading throughout the rest of the world.

[Bankotsu]

In the context of ending US Imperialism and power spreading throughout the rest of the world.

Radical, do you support multipolar world and BRIC bloc's agenda to reform current world order?

[scarletghoul]

I would support it but only if it was carried out by a group of gorillas. Using the foco formula, it would require about 27 gorillas to take over the whole of the USA.

[Sam_b]

So basically, you support another country's imperialism taking the space and position of the US? The only 'military invasion' that would be even feasable in the present would come from another imperialist country, certainly not from exploited groups and states. You have to realise that defeating imperialism is not solely done in a quick and bloody way by the barrel of a gun. Being, as Lenin said, a specific era of monopoly capital, it is not possible to defeat it by another capitalist country coming in guns blazing: the challenge has to come from the working class - like what resistance groups are doing all over the world to try and get imperialism out of their land and lives.

This seems nothing more than a quick-fix and romanticised notion which negates the hard work and class struggle necessary to cause such a defeat. It won't, and can't, happen in this way.

[Bankotsu]

I would support it but only if it was carried out by a group of gorillas. Using the foco formula, it would require about 27 gorillas to take over the whole of the USA.

Didn't weatherman or SLA tried that back in the 70s?

[Radical]

So basically, you support another country's imperialism taking the space and position of the US? The only 'military invasion' that would be even feasable in the present would come from another imperialist country, certainly not from exploited groups and states. You have to realise that defeating imperialism is not solely done in a quick and bloody way by the barrel of a gun. Being, as Lenin said, a specific era of monopoly capital, it is not possible to defeat it by another capitalist country coming in guns blazing: the challenge has to come from the working class - like what resistance groups are doing all over the world to try and get imperialism out of their land and lives.

This seems nothing more than a quick-fix and romanticised notion which negates the hard work and class struggle necessary to cause such a defeat. It won't, and can't, happen in this way.

I haven't said anything. Dont jump to conclusions, It's a question I wanted to ask THE people.

[ArrowLance]

Is it invasion that liberates us? Or, more likely, is it an invasion that oppresses the workers and creates another world super power to continue what the united states is already doing. So I'm going to answer, no.

[Sam_b]

I haven't said anything.

That's the point. Why did you not put forward a decent preamble to the poll then? What do you really believe? Why don't you answer the question: do you therefore support another inter-imperialist conflict?

[Bankotsu]

The collusion between the capitalist financial, corporate oligarchy and politicians in U.S:



Q. What are some of the larger political and economic issues you see typified in Victorville?



A. The unholy union between politicians and various vested business interests. Some people will call it graft or corruption.

In Victorville, you can see it in the very generous relationship that exists between the city government and real estate developers.

Victorville’s pro-business, pro-growth attitude is one of the reasons why the city boomed and crashed as hard as it did.

But what’s best for business is not always what’s best for people, and more often than not the two are at odds. And as far as I can tell, local politicians here did everything to please the business end, while doing little to look out for the interests of their constituency, the very people that elected them. It’s a problem that exists at every level of government, from state to federal.

http://exiledonline.com/yasha-levine-is-front-page-news-in-victorville-3/

[scarletghoul]

We have to train marxist gorillas and set them loose. This is the only way to liberate te people. Focoism has proven this to work time and time again.

[Manifesto]

Well it says military so I would guess that it is a country that invades America.

[Radical]

Well it says military so I would guess that it is a country that invades America.

Si

[Bankotsu]

We have to train marxist gorillas and set them loose. This is the only way to liberate te people. Focoism has proven this to work time and time again.

But it didn't work out in the 1970s. Just a bunch of kids doing propaganda of the deed tactics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)

[Durruti's Ghost]

We have to train marxist gorillas and set them loose. This is the only way to liberate te people. Focoism has proven this to work time and time again.

I'm pretty sure you're being ironic, based on the misspelling of the word "guerrilla". However, I'm not entirely sure. So tell me, should I be like this:

:laugh:

or should I be like this:

:thumbdown:

[Orange Juche]

I would support it but only if it was carried out by a group of gorillas. Using the foco formula, it would require about 27 gorillas to take over the whole of the USA.

Animal cruelty. :D

[scarletghoul]

But it didn't work out in the 1970s. Just a bunch of kids doing propaganda of the deed tactics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_%28organization))
You are missing a FUNDAMENTAL POINT of my posts. The reason it failed in the 70s was because it was attempted by humans, not gorillas.

WE HAVE TO TRAIN GORILLAS AND SET THEM LOOSE OR THERE WILL BE NO REVOLUTION

[Durruti's Ghost]

You are missing a FUNDAMENTAL POINT of my posts. The reason it failed in the 70s was because it was attempted by humans, not gorillas.

WE HAVE TO TRAIN GORILLAS AND SET THEM LOOSE OR THERE WILL BE NO REVOLUTION

Oh, okay. So, then...

:laugh:

[Orange Juche]

WE HAVE TO TRAIN GORILLAS AND SET THEM LOOSE OR THERE WILL BE NO REVOLUTION

http://rookery2.viary.com/storagev12/763000/763068_c5ef_625x1000.jpg

[RedSonRising]

An invasion would simply imply a power not of this country trying to impose their will on this one. An invasion would likely mean unpopular military movement on civilian territory, which just wouldn't be cool.

[Revy]

Epic Fail of a thread. Of course I voted NO :cool:

[Revy]

I would support it but only if it was carried out by a group of gorillas. Using the foco formula, it would require about 27 gorillas to take over the whole of the USA.

King Kong > 27 gorillas

[scarletghoul]

Sure, if you could get King Kong to attack the USA under the banner of Marxism-Leninism that would be great, but that's not going to happen. We have to be realistic here; gorillas are our best chance.

[Bankotsu]

We have to be realistic here; gorillas are our best chance.

So you support "propaganda of the deed" type of attacks in USA if carried out by trained gorillas?

[scarletghoul]

Yes, if its by gorillas.

[Il Medico]

Hmmm. Well knowing that it is Radical asking the question and based on his responses above, I voted no. This is vaguely a question on support for another imperialist nation invading the US. Replacing one group of imperialist with another group of imperialist does nothing. The line "The US bad, anyone who fights US good" is typical of your crap politics. The only thing that would be the result of such an endeavor would be the death of millions of working class people fighting on the front lines of an imperialist brawl. Anyone who would answer yes to this, should frankly reconsider their leftism.

[Jimmie Higgins]

So you support "propaganda of the deed" type of attacks in USA if carried out by trained gorillas?That's the only propaganda of the deed I would support on principle. Oh, only if they were on roller-skates too.




Scratch that: rocket skates and red capes!

[Guerrilla22]

I support this proposal 100% just so long as it is several Latin American countries doing the invading. It would definitely be justice.

[AntifaAustralia]

I would support a peaceful strategy to end U.S unipolar world, end their aggressive wars and create a multipolar world.
fuck yeah, if america wants to continue to exploit and abuse foreign nations based on ideology and promote their fucked capitalist culture over another why not? America is a fascist state!


So basically, you support another country's imperialism taking the space and position of the US? The only 'military invasion' that would be even feasable in the present would come from another imperialist country, certainly not from exploited groups and states. You have to realise that defeating imperialism is not solely done in a quick and bloody way by the barrel of a gun. Being, as Lenin said, a specific era of monopoly capital, it is not possible to defeat it by another capitalist country coming in guns blazing: the challenge has to come from the working class - like what resistance groups are doing all over the world to try and get imperialism out of their land and lives.

This seems nothing more than a quick-fix and romanticised notion which negates the hard work and class struggle necessary to cause such a defeat. It won't, and can't, happen in this way.
Not imperialism over another, it's called COMMUNISM over imperialism, the people of the world triumphing for the unification of the american and international community. I totally agree that it wont happen this way, america will a good little boy and convert to socialiism once the world is against it :)


I support this proposal 100% just so long as it is several Latin American countries doing the invading. It would definitely be justice.
Latin america is too weak to do that, we need every nation against that fascist State, like what we did to the Fascists of WW2
germany, italy and japan.

[AntifaAustralia]

America, if it keeps on going as it is, it will eventually turn into a fascist state. If the world turns socialist and we will kick it from the UN, we could sanction the fascists to death!

Look at north Korea, Cuba! Communist and alone, isolated and communist nationalists!, if the tide agaisnt Class discrimination arises, america better integrate to the communist culture, or they will be defeated like the third reich!

But damn the americans are big, we need a really big intercomm army. India and china have a lot of soldiers :)

Another alternative is to arm american Gorrillas??? or Guerrillas??? with arms!

[Guerrilla22]

Another alternative is to arm american Gorrillas??? or Guerrillas??? with arms!
__________________

Nah, all ameriKKKans must die.

[Q]

Would you support a Military Invasion of USA if it was backed by enough military support?
No. It will achieve nothing but fuel reactionary ideologies, exactly what we are seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan today. This whole "we'll get back at America" thing is quite stupid to begin with. Who is going to suffer from such an invasion? The capitalists? Of course not, they'll flee or bribe the invaders with all their wealth and power. The victims are, as always, the working class.

Duh.

[Glenn Beck]

Would you support a Military Invasion of USA if it was backed by enough military support?

Why not start right now?

You first.

[Sam_b]

Look at north Korea, Cuba! Communist and alone, isolated and communist nationalists!

How can these states be communist when they are indeed, states?

[Revy]

No. It will achieve nothing but fuel reactionary ideologies, exactly what we are seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan today. This whole "we'll get back at America" thing is quite stupid to begin with. Who is going to suffer from such an invasion? The capitalists? Of course not, they'll flee or bribe the invaders with all their wealth and power. The victims are, as always, the working class.

Duh.

Exactly.

[AntifaAustralia]

How can these states be communist when they are indeed, states?
I'm really starting to get agitated fighting with trots, the sectarianism is pretty foolish, we are siblings you know. i know that DPRK and cuba and nepal and venezuela are not your perfect bra size, but wear it! it'll make your communismm look bigger;)

[Sam_b]

What? This is not a Trotskyist thing, this is a specific Marxist, indeed leftist, thing. We can have a dispute about the democratic control of the means of production if you like, but that isn't the point: I haven't really seen anyone on here state that these are 'communist states' because the idea is an inherant contradiction. Socialist perhaps, but communism is incompatable with either a state structure or a national border.

There's nothing sectarian about it.

[Wanted Man]

Not if it was by an army or guerrillas. Well, I'll make an exception:

3KN-LhuSOz0

[Holden Caulfield]

supporting one imperialist state to smash another imperialist state?
this doesn't belong in a political forum on a site for revolutionary leftism

[Q]

I'm really starting to get agitated fighting with trots, the sectarianism is pretty foolish, we are siblings you know. i know that DPRK and cuba and nepal and venezuela are not your perfect bra size, but wear it! it'll make your communismm look bigger;)
In the minds of many people on the left (and with that I mean the broad left, not just the far left) the DPRK is not communist, they mostly recognise this country as a complete caricature of socialism, let alone communism. Most people haven't even heard of developments in Nepal and where they have they're not very impressed to see it as an example of how to move forward here. In Venezuela I frankly have never heard anyone (and I'm talking about people who actually follow world developments etc) outside the far left say they are all about socialism, it is more seen as a leftwing government which is far from perfect - which is what it is. Cuba is an ambivalent issue for most, it is seen as socialist, but not directly a system they want to fight for and/or live in.

My point with all this? It is you who is sectarian.

[Holden Caulfield]

I moved this btw, if anybody has any complaints you know where to find me

[bcbm]

Wolverines!

[gorillafuck]

I would only support an invasion of the USA if everyone in the invading army dress as Teletubbies

[spiltteeth]

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae191/spiltteeth/monkey1jpgw560h536.jpg

[AntifaAustralia]

In the minds of many people on the left (and with that I mean the broad left, not just the far left) the DPRK is not communist, they mostly recognise this country as a complete caricature of socialism, let alone communism. Most people haven't even heard of developments in Nepal and where they have they're not very impressed to see it as an example of how to move forward here. In Venezuela I frankly have never heard anyone (and I'm talking about people who actually follow world developments etc) outside the far left say they are all about socialism, it is more seen as a leftwing government which is far from perfect - which is what it is. Cuba is an ambivalent issue for most, it is seen as socialist, but not directly a system they want to fight for and/or live in.

My point with all this? It is you who is sectarian.

Oh yes, probably, getting me worried, i probably am a sectarian bastard. I'm not a pro-authoritarian, but sometimes i dont know this, i might be.

I considered them part of the communist stuggle because of their deep understanding of social justice, yes it is completely wrong to label DPRK or Venezuela as true communist states, completely wrong! socialist indeed.

Back tot he topic america should be invaded.

[Dimentio]

Invasions often do not change the social structure at all. They could of course affect the social and productive mechanisms of a society. But societies have been totally transformed before without being invaded.

[Il Medico]

Back tot he topic america should be invaded.
And what exactly is your rationale behind this? I doubt there is any besides your wet dream about Amerikkka getting it's ass kicked in a war, but humor me. Now if a capitalist nation invades another capitalist nation thousands of workers will die fighting a war between two bourgeois states. What possible reason, save crap politics and complete lack of thinking, could make you be in favor of such an endeavor? To paraphrase you, I think revolutionary leftism isn't your bra size.

[Vendetta]

No, I live here. I'd rather not get shot at.

[Pavlov's House Party]

America, if it keeps on going as it is, it will eventually turn into a fascist state. If the world turns socialist and we will kick it from the UN, we could sanction the fascists to death!

Look at north Korea, Cuba! Communist and alone, isolated and communist nationalists!, if the tide agaisnt Class discrimination arises, america better integrate to the communist culture, or they will be defeated like the third reich!

But damn the americans are big, we need a really big intercomm army. India and china have a lot of soldiers :)

Another alternative is to arm american Gorrillas??? or Guerrillas??? with arms!

facepalm.jpg

[RHIZOMES]

Would you support a Military Invasion of USA if it was backed by enough military support?

Shut the FUCK up

[Dr Mindbender]

We have to train marxist gorillas

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i59/ulstersocialist/marxistgorilla.png

EDIT: oh someones already done one, oh well heres my attempt anyhoo.

[Black Sheep]

i think the OP plays too many video games.
freedom fighters and c&c

[JimmyJazz]

i'm so in guys

let's make this happen