Anti Islam Harrow, UK protest 11th September [Archive]

Station Rd

6th September 2009, 19:58

No one appears sure if the Harrow Mosque Protest is going ahead., It's disappeared from the future demo page on EDL. If it does, as a person who grew up in Harrow I had the following advise.

For any protester I would note that the people of harrow have an astounding record of tolerance whilst bring Britain's most religiously diverse borough.

Harrow has large 'White', Hindu and Jewish communities as well as Irish, black and Muslim and many other communities and has had migrant for as long as you can remember. It's a VERY live and let live community.

All I'm getting at is that the local will have little time for them but as it's 9/11 on pray day during Ramadan at a very small mosque on a very busy road with little parking things could turn nasty.

UAF: The local will respect peaceful protest that doesn't interrupt their day. Let the EDL make their own trouble and just create a barrier so the people using the mosque can go about the business safely.

Antifa: If you're gonna look for a fight then try and keep it away from the mosque. EDL thugs will be forced to approach by foot as there is little parking. Their are plenty of back streets off Station Road which they'll use for parking.

Those taking the train will have a long walk from Harrow On The Hill station but the route is heavily monitored by CCTV. Even as far as the Tesco's I know for a fact their are cameras.

Harrow and Wealdstone Station is much nearer but also covered by cameras. I'm not condoning violence but I thought it better to give a heads up. I can give further details by PM in order that everyone "play safe"

wasteman

8th September 2009, 04:59

Even the media are saying its gonna proper kick off

Anti-Islam demonstrators plan to protest outside one of London’s largest mosques on Friday, the anniversary of September 11, raising the prospect of violence. Large numbers of anti-fascists also intend to descend on the site of the new Harrow central mosque to show solidarity with Muslims.

Both groups have promoted Friday’s protest on their websites. It is being organised by a third right-wing group calling itself Stop Islamification of Europe.
SIOE, which claims that “Islamophobia is the height of commonsense”, says it is planning a peaceful protest. However, fears of more ugly clashes were raised when Unite Against Fascism announced that large numbers of its demonstrators would also attendhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6825354.ece
(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6825354.ece)

Melbourne Lefty

10th September 2009, 10:59

Be careful everyone, with 90 arrests at the last one the last thing anyone on our side needs is a night in the nick. Let the racist pricks kick it off and get locked up.

Pogue

10th September 2009, 12:36

Be careful everyone, with 90 arrests at the last one the last thing anyone on our side needs is a night in the nick. Let the racist pricks kick it off and get locked up.

While I'd encourage people of course to avoid getting arrested and exercise caution as I did, the thing with these sorts of demos is that inevtiably they tend to kick off. I don't know what the police presence will be at Harrow or the numbers involved but I'd be very suprised if there wasn't any kind of trouble. I think the key thing is to not do anything stupid or unnecesary, i.e. needlessly attacking someone when it doesn't tactically make sense right in front of the police, but I'd also say that there is a difference between stupidly kicking off and using violence to defend yourself or others if neccesary.

Steve_j

10th September 2009, 12:58

Anyone know if this is still happening? Got alot on so not sure if its worth heading up.

EDIT:Just read the thread properly... I thought this was an EDL demo, but they seem to be distancing themselves from it now :confused:

bricolage

10th September 2009, 13:34

As this at five, those who around could also attend the picket of the Serbian embassy before hand;

Serbian Embassy (London) 28 Belgrave Square, LONDON SW1X 8QB.

SOLIDARITY WITH SERBIAN ANARCHO-SYNDICALISTS.

Six anarchists have been arrested in Belgrade following an attack on the Greek Embassy in April 24. The attack was claimed by a previously unknown group, and was said to be in solidarity with the recent uprising against the Greek state.

Those arrested deny all knowledge of the group and the attack, and believe that this is an attempt to criminalise the growing Serbian anarchist movement. The activists are members of the Serbian section of the International Workers’ Association.

They have been remanded in custody for 30 days while the Serbian state prepares its case. If convicted, these activists face long prison sentences.

SUPPORT OUR SERBIAN COMRADES!

PICKET THE SERBIAN EMBASSY

28 Belgrave Square, London, SW1X 8QB
(near Hyde Park Corner & Knightsbridge tube stations)
Friday, September 11th, Noon – 2pm

Bring banners, flags, placards, loudspeakers.

AntifaAustralia

10th September 2009, 15:30

lefties opposing Islam? or righties opposing islam? lefties should defend people from discrimination, no doubt that lefties will be protecting muslims there.

lucky to have an easy task of fighting discrimination. we have people against islamic school construction in sydney, there are Christians and fascists, atheists, and environmentalists and anti-development people perhaps even socilaists(but they will stay clearlike me). are you for a private muslim school? gives me headaches being an atheist and lefty, and anti-discrimination guy.

Steve_j

10th September 2009, 15:45

This has next to nothing to do with Islam. These demonstrations are an effort of the far right to inflame racial tensions with the Asian community.

I would be no more for or against a private muslim school than i would be a private Christian or Jewish school.

wasteman

10th September 2009, 17:24

This time dont drink too much red bull :lol:

Holden Caulfield

10th September 2009, 18:27

This has got about as much to do with Islamic Terrorist as the persecution of the Jews had to do with the Russian Revolution (carried out you "Jewish Bolsheviks" remember).

Its not defending Islam, in the same way denouncing the holocaust is defending Judaism.

Just clear that up seen as AntifaAus... post confused me

KarlMarx1989

10th September 2009, 19:31

No doubt that people of islam have done some terrible things. However, I think that christian extremism is more dangerous than muslim extremism. There are more christian extremists than there are muslim extremists, for one. Also, most of the christian extremists reside in christian-America; which means that they have the freedom to misuse christianity to hate and to beat. The "terrorists" of western Asia are more like resurgents, they have taken over countries in the past (i.e. Taliban ruled Afghanistan for a time in the late '90s) and the governments of most of the countries there are more against them rather than supportive of them (unlike the US). Most of the people who practice Islam are rather peaceful people (as the word 'islam' means peace) and have no affiliation with any of the terrorists. Also, these "Arab terrorists" don't have the media portraying them as 'good guys' like christians do in christian-America.

I think what we need to focus on, rather than the religions themselves, is the extremists of those religions. After all, christianity and islam alike aren't all bad if they are practiced the way they are supposed to be practiced.

I have never met an islamic extremist; only good-hearted, fun-loving, peaceful people of the muslim religion. I have, however, met many christian extremists; more so than nice christian people. I have noticed that the christians who are actually good, caring people are the ones who practice christianity the way their messiah intended. They, too, are not affiliated with the extremists of that religion.

h0m0revolutionary

10th September 2009, 19:45

No doubt that people of islam have done some terrible things. However, I think that christian extremism is more dangerous than muslim extremism.

Let's not get drawn into which religion is more oppressive.

I think what we need to focus on, rather than the religions themselves, is the extremists of those religions. After all, christianity and islam alike aren't all bad if they are practiced the way they are supposed to be practiced.

That is your understanding of those religions, and your opinion is about as valid, or rather invalid, as the next persons.

I have noticed that the christians who are actually good, caring people are the ones who practice christianity the way their messiah intended.

When the bible teaches it as legitimate to stone somebody for the crime of picking up sticks on a Sunday, do you consider this a good, caring act?

The fact is, the Bible, like any other religious book is so ambiguous it can accomodate your "good, caring" comrades as much as it can fascists, religious extremists and those who strap semtex to their boots.

I would say given that is the case, the best thing the left can do, is srop the habit of tailing reactionary religious ideas, under the pretext os opposing racism and openly embrace anti-theism as the legitimate questioning of religious belief, without persecuting peopole for those beliefs.

But what we don't do, is tail backward anti-religious views, especially when the far-right march against Islam, for no other reason that to prepetuate myths about that religion and to protect England as a beacon of Christian values :/

Holden Caulfield

10th September 2009, 20:09

Have you read the bible it teaches that men should give up their wives and daughters to be raped to protect a fellow male stranger, that is opressive patriarchy.

I can't be fucked getting into dumb religious attitudes, but the Spanish Inquesition, the Crusades (including the massacre of European Jews on the way to the holy land and the massacre of multi-ethnic Jerusalem on arrival), etc etc. I hope you see my point

KarlMarx1989

10th September 2009, 20:14

When the bible teaches it as legitimate to stone somebody for the crime of picking up sticks on a Sunday
Yes, and Jesus taught that the person who is without sin can punish others for this. People who have sinned cannot judge others for they have done wrong themselves. god Is said to be the only one without sin and Jesus was god who had come to the people to show them the way.

I don't believe this myself for I believe in neither the beliefs of judaism or christianity. Whatever the case, I think that you need to do some studying up on christianity rather than taking what you know from The Tanakh, the full extent of jewish beliefs and the old testament to christians, and presenting it as the full extent of the beliefs of proper christians. Maybe read the gospels? There are people who misuse Biblia Sacra in order to get their way or to have this "inner security", but I think it is no better to take it out of context and use it against them. I think that is why christians who misuse their religion prevail over people who are against religion because we keep fighting in their territory, the territory of ignorance.

I am a person who is not religious, yet know more about Biblia Sacra than most christians. There aren't many people like me. That is also why we fail. If there were more people who actually understood the contents of biblia Sacra then I think that we would have ground to stand on against it.

10th September 2009, 20:17

http://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/4585906.Mosque_calls_for_9_11_protest_to_be_banned/

The demo is definitely going ahead and it's not by EDL, it's by SIOE.

They are all the same anti-Muslim idiots and we must oppose them, it's about time you edited this thread's title, Holden. :glare:

AlMack

10th September 2009, 23:45

theyre meeting at a pub called the fat controller apparently

The Ungovernable Farce

11th September 2009, 00:36

I have noticed that the christians who are actually good, caring people are the ones who practice christianity the way their messiah intended.
How do you know what Jesus intended? Have you ever met him?

Yes, and Jesus taught that the person who is without sin can punish others for this. People who have sinned cannot judge others for they have done wrong themselves.
Some christians believe that being born again in Christ frees them of all sin. It's as legitimate as any other. Fundamentalist Christianity's a horrible, horrible ideology, but it's no less "christian" than liberal Christianity is.

Whatever the case, I think that you need to do some studying up on christianity rather than taking what you know from The Tanakh, the full extent of jewish beliefs and the old testament to christians, and presenting it as the full extent of the beliefs of proper christians. Maybe read the gospels? There are people who misuse Biblia Sacra in order to get their way or to have this "inner security", but I think it is no better to take it out of context and use it against them. I think that is why christians who misuse their religion prevail over people who are against religion because we keep fighting in their territory, the territory of ignorance.

I am a person who is not religious, yet know more about Biblia Sacra than most christians. There aren't many people like me. That is also why we fail. If there were more people who actually understood the contents of biblia Sacra then I think that we would have ground to stand on against it.
Believe me, I know my Christian theology (and I agree that a lot of Christians don't know shit about the text they supposedly follow). But I don't oppose Christianity because I like or dislike the contents of the Bible (is there any actual reason for using the latin term), I oppose it because it plays a reactionary role in the real material world, and because it fucks people's heads up. This thread probably needs splitting at this point.

KarlMarx1989

11th September 2009, 00:55

Some christians believe that being born again in Christ frees them of all sin.
Yes, some. However, that doesn't necessarily make it true. I do agree that some christians (i.e. the misusers) really believe that. However, as a legitimate christian would tell you (not like you'd listen anyway, I presume) that is not how it is. Sure, you get cleansed of passed sins; but that doesn't mean you don't keep sinning. Besides, I don't know why we're arguing about something as trivial as what Jesus taught. I think that the real problem is extremism / terrorism, from every religion; especially christianity.

StalinFanboy

11th September 2009, 02:38

Yes, some. However, that doesn't necessarily make it true. I do agree that some christians (i.e. the misusers) really believe that. However, as a legitimate christian would tell you (not like you'd listen anyway, I presume) that is not how it is. Sure, you get cleansed of passed sins; but that doesn't mean you don't keep sinning. Besides, I don't know why we're arguing about something as trivial as what Jesus taught. I think that the real problem is extremism / terrorism, from every religion.
Fixed it for you.

Every religion should be opposed.

KarlMarx1989

11th September 2009, 02:56

You mean, every religion's extremists...;)

The Ungovernable Farce

11th September 2009, 17:01

Yes, some. However, that doesn't necessarily make it true. I do agree that some christians (i.e. the misusers)
You keep on bringing up this idea of misuse. Who decides what's a misuse of Christianity and what's a proper use? As far as I can see, only God would be entitled to make that distinction, but he's imaginary.

really believe that. However, as a legitimate christian would tell you...
Legitimate according to whose standards? Again, only God gets to say who is and isn't legitimately Christian, and he doesn't exist. You seem to be using "legitimate" as a synonym for "people I like" and "illegitimate" to mean "people I don't like". That's not quite how it works.

You mean, every religion's extremists...
You're replying to someone who calls themselves "Godstomper". I think it's not unrealistic to suggest that they might be against religion full stop.

Steve_j

11th September 2009, 18:05

And getting back on topic.

Looks like things are going well.

http://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/4625521.Anti_mosque_protesters_chased_out_of_Weald stone/

Killfacer

11th September 2009, 19:16

Sounds like their boys took one heeeeeelll of a beating.

Steve_j

11th September 2009, 19:21

Sounds like the police saved their ass big time. There are a few more reports comming in. Not much detail as yet.

Happy days though.. Was feeling a little guilty for not going :blushing:

KarlMarx1989

11th September 2009, 21:49

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ra33d4o2Uo&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Wanted Man

11th September 2009, 23:18

And getting back on topic.

Looks like things are going well.

http://www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/4625521.Anti_mosque_protesters_chased_out_of_Weald stone/

HOARDS of Asian men! :laugh: Good show though!

Steve_j

11th September 2009, 23:26

HOARDS of Asian men!

Yeah.... Over the past week there have been a couple of attacks on muslims when leaving moques :(. One was killed. Those i know in the community are pretty angry and distraught, might have added a little fuel to the fire.

Pogue

11th September 2009, 23:31

Got there expecting fuck all. Heavy police presence alerted me otherwise.

Went out into Harrow, saw fucking bundles of people. The whole area surrounding the mosque was on lock down. Estimates range from at least 1000 of us up to 2500. There was fucking loads of us though, all sorts, anarchists, socialists, unaffiliated Muslims, local people (alot of kids from the school and nearby college).

EDL didn't stand a chance. Everyone was just standing around the mosque chilling waiting for them to arrive.

I'd say the most important thing was that quite simply they couldnt get near us. They had about 30 people, we had 1000 (minimum). They would have got decimated. The police sheperded them about in an armoured securicor van which was set upon, and towards the end we found out whrere they were hiding (behind the civic centre in a estate like area) surrounded by literally hundreds of police. there was about 30 of them cowering behind police lines, totally humiliated and utterly out numbered.

fucking jokes. just what was needed. they were totally out numbered, we stopped them getting near the mosque and totally humiliated them. grats to everyone who was there it was good.

Steve_j

11th September 2009, 23:36

Sorry i wasnt there...

alot of kids from the school and nearby college

Great to hear!

I wonder if they have learnt their lesson yet... or are up for some more punishment :)

Pogue

11th September 2009, 23:39

Killfacer

12th September 2009, 00:52

It wasn't the EDL was it?

Melbourne Lefty

12th September 2009, 05:13

Melbourne Lefty

12th September 2009, 05:15

tbh if i was them i'd just think 'fuck this', its just boring and embarassing for them, they simply couldn't do shit, we could have had 1/4 of our numbers and still would have utterly overwhelmed them, it was a good day, its funny cos birmingham was a fight but this was just a foregone conclusion, the edl and the police knew they simply wouldn't be able to take us on, the crwod was fucking hyped, and i mean hyped.

EDL was not there, and I refer to my above post, was this a victory for the left or for the Islamic community in the UK.

I assume you know that there is a difference.

Sorry for getting testy here, but the cheerleading of what seems to be a protest by the Islamic community with little left wing involvement is getting on my nerves.

The Ungovernable Farce

12th September 2009, 13:30

If Asians want to fight back against racism, I'm not going to condemn them for it. Since there are probably many more Asians than active socialists in the UK, it's hardly surprising that if both groups mobilise for something, the former will dominate it. Do anti-racist protests have to be mostly white to be acceptable?

brigadista

12th September 2009, 14:29

nice to see the local community coming out

Rosa Lichtenstein

12th September 2009, 14:33

Good report and pics here:

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2009/09/english-defence-league-humiliated-in.html

Stand Your Ground

12th September 2009, 15:15

Nice. Good job guys.

Wanted Man

12th September 2009, 15:49

Yeah.... Over the past week there have been a couple of attacks on muslims when leaving moques :(. One was killed. Those i know in the community are pretty angry and distraught, might have added a little fuel to the fire.

I know, I just thought part of the news message was funny. Both because of the spelling and because it invoked images of "islamic hordes". :rolleyes:

EDL was not there, and I refer to my above post, was this a victory for the left or for the Islamic community in the UK.

I assume you know that there is a difference.

Sorry for getting testy here, but the cheerleading of what seems to be a protest by the Islamic community with little left wing involvement is getting on my nerves.

Well, what is the exact problem? A community that faces heavy discrimination has come out in force to defend itself, and won quite clearly. It probably helps that their opponents couldn't organise their way out of this:

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/57-lb-1-6-brown-paper-grocery-bag-500-bd/57-lb-1-6-brown-paper-grocery-bag-500-bd.jpg

But it's still an interesting achievement. I don't see the problem with "cheerleading" the fact that these people can confidently defend themselves from all sorts of creepy "national conservatives" or what have you.

Steve_j

12th September 2009, 16:05

I just thought part of the news message was funny. Both because of the spelling and because it invoked images of "islamic hordes"

Ah get you now.... went over my head :)

12th September 2009, 16:36

Looks like about 1000 muslim kids showed up and threw stuff at the police.

And 30 ubermensch, but they wouldn't want you to think anything other than "it was just the muslims causing trouble again".

The left wing "Boots on the ground" were lost in the crowd.

What does that even mean. Should "left-wing boots on the ground" stand out with high-viz vests saying LEFT-WING BOOTS ON THE GROUND, alternatively must they be white and wearing FUCK FASCISM t-shirts or something?

Has the UAF sort of been sucked up into a larger muslim backlash against racism? They seem to be getting swamped pretty comprehensively at some of these protests.

Whatever you're saying here makes no sense, a lot of Muslims are part of UAF and if that doesn't make sense, idk what will.

Anyone looking at the sky footage and the youtube stuff that is up there would call this a muslim protest, not a left wing one.

What's that supposed to mean?

Our side seems to have slightly missed the train here. If the dominant political groups at these protests are communalist or islamist and not left wing then this could be a little ugly.

If they are protesting specifically against Muslims, do you think that Muslims who feel discriminated against should/are going to just stay home?

Your criticism feels entirely unnecessary.

EDL was not there, and I refer to my above post, was this a victory for the left or for the Islamic community in the UK.

I assume you know that there is a difference.

Sorry for getting testy here, but the cheerleading of what seems to be a protest by the Islamic community with little left wing involvement is getting on my nerves.

What on earth is your problem? The "Islamic community" is part of all our communities and we are meant to work at building non-assimilationist integration whilst eating away at liberal multiculturalism, not help aid multiculturalist bullshit talk.

Holden Caulfield

12th September 2009, 18:06

"Those dam Muslims defending their local communities, we had the same problem with the dam Jews at Cable Street back in the good old days"

A brilliant return to form Melbourne, I almost forgot about the times that we doubted your alligences :closedeyes:

Rory

12th September 2009, 18:55

It's not a race riot, and that's what the EDL are trying to create. Young muslims are carrying UAF plaquards. Whether you support UAF or not, the fact that it's anti-BNP and not anti-white slogans means the EDL aren't achieving their aims of whipping up racial tension. In the video from Birmingham on the 8th of August when some asian lads catch one of the EDL and start putting the boot in you hear them shout "Fuck the BNP!". I think it's a victory that people from these communities don't see this as "All white people out to attack muslims".

wasteman

12th September 2009, 19:05

Listen I know some of you are against all religion but its important to remember that the first step in establishing an atheist state/people is to fight for equality for ALL religions and fight the discrimination.

Once the religious extremists and right wing groups have died in numbers then is the right time to bring forward an atheist agenda under various poltical banners.

But you have to keep in mind you can never elimnate ALL right wingers or religious nuts this is how the human mind works, but it IS possible to dwindle the numbers through correct education system or propaganda system

Holden Caulfield

12th September 2009, 22:43

pictures (http://www.jesshurd.com/clients/0909HarrowEDL/content/index.html)
pictures (http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery/G0000iTO1fKFQtkA/)

Atrus

12th September 2009, 22:51

Holden Caulfield

12th September 2009, 22:54

Anyone know of any more of these?
I believe the EDL are doing a series around the country, but I'm yet to hear of any more counter protests.
Except HOPE Not Hate going to Leeds on October 31st, but I'm not sure if standing around smiling counts as a counter protest...

Manchester is up on the cards and has been mentioned if you snoop rounds the threads, or drop h0m0revolutionary a message, i think it was he who posted the details

brigadista

13th September 2009, 00:17

remember the old slogan "self defence is no offence..." of course communites will defend themselves and we should support them

progressive_lefty

13th September 2009, 05:33

I saw a news-report about this in Australia, its a pretty worrying development. To be honest, I don't think the BNP will grow much larger. In my opinion, I think they are just a protest vote against new EU immigrants from places like Poland, and I can't imagine a significant number of Brits voting for them because they hate blacks or muslims. If British revleft users are so worried, maybe you could check out the 'One Nation' party on wikipedia, or you may already be familiar with them. Pauline Hanson and her party provided Australian voters with a protest vote, but she didn't last beyond 5 years.

Pogue

13th September 2009, 08:56

Pogue

13th September 2009, 08:58

Looks like about 1000 muslim kids showed up and threw stuff at the police.

The left wing "Boots on the ground" were lost in the crowd.

Has the UAF sort of been sucked up into a larger muslim backlash against racism? They seem to be getting swamped pretty comprehensively at some of these protests.

Anyone looking at the sky footage and the youtube stuff that is up there would call this a muslim protest, not a left wing one.

Our side seems to have slightly missed the train here. If the dominant political groups at these protests are communalist or islamist and not left wing then this could be a little ugly.

Again why the fuck are you commenting on something you have no part? What excactly is your problem with Muslim people? This was a protest being held agaisnt Muslims, in a area with alot of Muslims, and you act shocked when, suprise suprise, the demonstration is predominantly Muslim? I suppose being one of those 'boots on the ground' I was lost then? Fuck that, I was there happy to see such a kick ass mobilisation that meant the EDL and that toher joke act couldn't even get close. You clearly quite simply don't have a fucking clue what the fuck you are on about.

Killfacer

13th September 2009, 14:36

Atrus

13th September 2009, 17:18

Simply put the events in Harrow serve only to make racial tensions worse in the UK. Some people might see loads of young muslim kids rampaging around and get off their arse and join the EDL.

So, you think that the Islamic people of Harrow should just bend over for the EDL or what?
"Actually lads, I think this might have a worse impact in the country as a whole, so let's not defend ourselves, let's leave our area to which we are entirely entitled and simply minding our own business in, so as not to increase racial tension."

No, the Islamic people have a right to stand up for themselves, speak out against such terrible individuals as the EDL. Racial tension increasing is a damn sight better than Muslims everywhere giving up and being run out of Britain by violent fascists such as the EDL.
If I could have gotten to Harrow, I'd have been there to support them, and gladly have blended in to the crowd, because if the crowd's big enough for me to blend in to, it means a lot of people are standing up and being counted for this cause.

AntifaAustralia

13th September 2009, 17:44

EDL was not there, and I refer to my above post, was this a victory for the left or for the Islamic community in the UK.

I assume you know that there is a difference.

Sorry for getting testy here, but the cheerleading of what seems to be a protest by the Islamic community with little left wing involvement is getting on my nerves.

I agree with melb lefty, i got no idea why the fuck you fellas are so against his comment. a prodominately muslim protest presence is quite sad i think, there shouldve been more LEFT people and LEFT organisations throwing activists to contribute to the anti-religious discrimination cause.

We lefties should've have felt EQUALLY SADDENED BY THE DISCRIMINATION! by letting a muslim force take over the anti-discrimination scene ..... it only contributes to an emotional reaction by muslims and not the anti-discrimination movement, which is quite a waste of time, pure pointless. anti discrimination and antifa etc movements are the key tool for future success and peace and the promotion of socialism/communism.

If Asians want to fight back against racism, I'm not going to condemn them for it. Since there are probably many more Asians than active socialists in the UK, it's hardly surprising that if both groups mobilise for something, the former will dominate it. Do anti-racist protests have to be mostly white to be acceptable?
are asians more likely to be socialists? i reckon, given their discrimination contributing to a lower socio-economic status. The pakistani and muslims were more likely to have a larger presencce because it hit them more harder, but still any person against discrimination could have showed up, even anti-school-bullying or anti-sexist campaigners!

yeah more diversity adds to a better successful campaign, that way you can get racial segregation out of peoples minds, and Ethnic unity into peoples minds, or perhaps even Minority unity(considering that GB is a predominately white area, not so much in some towns though, like manningham?).

Atrus

13th September 2009, 17:51

I agree with melb lefty, i got no idea why the fuck you fellas are so against his comment. a prodominately muslim protest presence is quite sad i think, there shouldve been more LEFT people and LEFT organisations throwing activists to contribute to the anti-religious discrimination cause.

And you're assuming that these Muslims aren't left because...?

Tjis

13th September 2009, 17:53

We lefties should've have felt EQUALLY SADDENED BY THE DISCRIMINATION! by letting a muslim force take over the anti-discrimination scene ..... it only contributes to an emotional reaction by muslims and not the anti-discrimination movement. anti discrimination and antifa etc movements are the key tool for future success and peace!
What. The. Fuck.
A muslim force? What the fuck are you talking about. This had NOTHING to do with religion. Asians went on the streets because a group of fash who are known to randomly beat up Asians on the streets and smash asian shops was going to march through their neighborhood. The fact that you can only see this act as a "muslim force" taking over the anti-discrimination scene makes me sick.

Killfacer

13th September 2009, 18:11

So, you think that the Islamic people of Harrow should just bend over for the EDL or what?
"Actually lads, I think this might have a worse impact in the country as a whole, so let's not defend ourselves, let's leave our area to which we are entirely entitled and simply minding our own business in, so as not to increase racial tension."

Way to not read anything i said, gleam a message from skim reading it and have a go at me. I specificly said that they were withing rights to defend themselves and i fully support them in doing so.

No, the Islamic people have a right to stand up for themselves, speak out against such terrible individuals as the EDL. Racial tension increasing is a damn sight better than Muslims everywhere giving up and being run out of Britain by violent fascists such as the EDL.
If I could have gotten to Harrow, I'd have been there to support them, and gladly have blended in to the crowd, because if the crowd's big enough for me to blend in to, it means a lot of people are standing up and being counted for this cause.

Yeah nice, next time read what i say.

Killfacer

13th September 2009, 18:20

I feel i should make my position clear so no more fucking morons decide my opinion for me.

I support the counter protest entirely, i thought it was an excellent reaction. For me the problem comes when someone considers it a great victory for the left. It wasn't. Perhaps if it had been a major counter demo by lefties with the locals then yes. However, all that people will see on TV is hundreds of Muslim kids hurling bricks. You think that none lefties are gonna be like "YES, THIS IS BRILLIANT!!!"?

Because they won't.

Pogue

13th September 2009, 18:23

Whilst i disagree with Melbourne Lefty i don't think you're being particularly fair. It's pretty obvious he doesn't have a problem with muslims. Simply put the events in Harrow serve only to make racial tensions worse in the UK. Some people might see loads of young muslim kids rampaging around and get off their arse and join the EDL. Whilst i hardly thing that it's particularly likely or that the community isn't allowed to defend itself, i don't think it can be seen as a major victory.

If that wasn't a major victory then I don't know what was. I'm sorry but what your talking has no grounding in reality. What I saw was alot of people ready to tell the EDL to fuck off. Alot of them local Muslims many of them who wanted to defend a mosque they attended. I wouldn't expect anything else than them swarming on fascists. It wasn't an Muslim versus non-Muslim thing, I am a white male and I never felt threatened, because its not just a Muslim thing. The sort of people who will look at demos like Harrow and join the EDL are the sort of people who would anyway - do you think a normal, decent working class person will see those images and suddenly decide they want to join the EDL on their pathetic demonstrations? I don't. Anyone who was there will know what actually happened and will see it was an obvious victory. I personally don't want to tell rightfully angry Muslim people to act less angry incase it makes a few people 'get off their arse and join the EDL'.

Killfacer

13th September 2009, 18:25

If that wasn't a major victory then I don't know what was. I'm sorry but what your talking has no grounding in reality. What I saw was alot of people ready to tell the EDL to fuck off. Alot of them local Muslims many of them who wanted to defend a mosque they attended. I wouldn't expect anything else than them swarming on fascists. It wasn't an Muslim versus non-Muslim thing, I am a white male and I never felt threatened, because its not just a Muslim thing. The sort of people who will look at demos like Harrow and join the EDL are the sort of people who would anyway - do you think a normal, decent working class person will see those images and suddenly decide they want to join the EDL on their pathetic demonstrations? I don't. Anyone who was there will know what actually happened and will see it was an obvious victory. I personally don't want to tell rightfully angry Muslim people to act less angry incase it makes a few people 'get off their arse and join the EDL'.

Nor do i. I'm simply saying that if there was a bigger lefty presence it would have been better for winning over the jo public.

The Ungovernable Farce

13th September 2009, 18:27

I do actually think Gardstein has a point here (melbourne is probably still a dick, tho). The point isn't that Asians shouldn't be confronting the EDL, they should be, the point is that white anti-racists should also be mobilising in large numbers, to make it clear that it isn't a whites vs. Asians/Muslims fight, it's an anti-racists vs racists one.

Pogue

13th September 2009, 18:28

Nor do i. I'm simply saying that if there was a bigger lefty presence it would have been better for winning over the jo public.

There was a pretty large left wing presence. It just so happened that the locla population turnout was much larger to the extent you would find it hard to notice us. I myself find it incredibly encouraging that I could attend a demo where for once I didn't have to worry about the input of the left wing because the locals had it sorted. We were there in quite big numbers, there was even an decent anarchist presence (remember this was on a weekday too). The local muslims made a point of shaking hands with any non Muslims/non-locals/lefties/anarchos they saw and thanking them for coming. I thought the thing was fine.

I think we need more people regularly coming down though. For example I already mentioned Brum, we did need more bodies on the ground, and there were moments in London today where more bodies would have been nice (I'll do a report later).

Atrus

13th September 2009, 18:29

Way to not read anything i said, gleam a message from skim reading it and have a go at me. I specificly said that they were withing rights to defend themselves and i fully support them in doing so.

Yeah nice, next time read what i say.

What you said was largely contradictory of itself, at one point saying that the Muslims should defending themselves is a good thing, and at another point saying that it isn't. So naturally I picked up on the parts that were negative toward the protest, because I think it was a good thing.