Left Libertarianism Versus Anarchism

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Is there a difference? Does left libertarianism support a state or not?

[Revy]

Libertarian Marxists don't necessarily oppose a state.

[GPDP]

Left-libertarianism, as I understand, is a term usually invoked to refer to mutualism, agorism, and everything in between. It is "libertarian" in that it is anti-statist and pro-market, and it is "left" in that its political economy lies to the left of "conventional" libertarianism and "anarcho"-capitalism (in the case of Agorism, this is due to its acceptance of black markets, while mutualism is more radical due to its opposition to property rights altogether, exchanging them for use rights).

I hesitate to include conventional anarchism in the umbrella of left-libertarianism, even if the term libertarianism is synonymous with anarchism (at least outside the US where right-wing reactionaries have hijacked the term), since it appears to exist within the context of American libertarianism. In other words, it is a response of sorts to "right"-libertarianism.

[Revy]

GPDP, you mean these guys? (http://all-left.net/)lol



I think OP may be referring to libertarian socialists, though I'm not sure.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I'm referring to whoever identifies as a left libertarian, I'm not sure exactly what that is, thats why I asked.

[9]

I've always been under the impression that "left-libertarianism" was a blanket term which covered a range of left-wing anti-authoritarian ideologies (e.g. broadly "libertarian communism" and "libertarian socialism", and more specifically, council communism, anarchist communism, anarcho-syndicalism, communalism, etc. etc.)
I may well be entirely wrong about this, but it is what I have always taken the term to mean.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I just remember that that one guy that everybody hated identified as a left libertarian, but I guess he was also a pacifist and got sent to the OI.

[9]

I just remember that that one guy that everybody hated identified as a left libertarian, but I guess he was also a pacifist and got sent to the OI.

Green Apostle? He changes his ideology every ten minutes.

[Durruti's Ghost]

Green Apostle? He changes his ideology every ten minutes.

I think he's talking about Howard, aka Mr. "Gandhi-was-an-anarchist!"

[kharacter]

if you google "Revleft", one of the first results is "Howard on revleft" from an anarchist forum, and explains that he goes on a lot of forums, preaching his ideas, and copy-pasting the same threads and responses onto each of the forums.

I'm not proud of the fact I discovered this, because apart from posting the above, the shameful "investigation" was a waste of time.

[GPDP]

GPDP, you mean these guys? (http://all-left.net/)lol.

Yeah, that's who I meant. We actually have a few unrestricted members who identify in such terms.

[Misanthrope]

Left libertarianism should not be mistaken with libertarian socialism. Left libertarianism is market "anarchism". They are capitalists, mutualists, counter-economists, ect. They are not leftists.

[SubcomandanteJames]

Left libertarianism should not be mistaken with libertarian socialism. Left libertarianism is market "anarchism". They are capitalists, mutualists, counter-economists, ect. They are not leftists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism:

Left-libertarianism (sometimes synonymous with left-wing libertarianism and libertarian socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-1)) is a term that has been used to describe several different libertarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism) political movements and theorists.
Left-libertarianism, as defended by contemporary theorists such as Peter Vallentyne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Vallentyne), Hillel Steiner (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hillel_Steiner&action=edit&redlink=1), and Michael Otsuka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Otsuka), is a doctrine that has a strong commitment to personal liberty and has an egalitarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarian) view concerning natural resources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_resources), believing that it is illegitimate for anyone to claim private ownership (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property) of resources to the detriment of others.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-2)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-Gaus.2C_Gerald_F._2004._p._128-3) Some left-libertarians of this type support some form of income redistribution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_redistribution) on the grounds of a claim by each individual to be entitled to an equal share of natural resources.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-Gaus.2C_Gerald_F._2004._p._128-3) Social anarchists, including Murray Bookchin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Bookchin)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-4), anarcho-communists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communist)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-5) such as Peter Kropotkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kropotkin) and anarcho-collectivists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-collectivism) such as Mikhail Bakunin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin), are sometimes called left-libertarian.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-6) Noam Chomsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky) also refers to himself as a left libertarian.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-7) The term is sometimes used synonymously with libertarian socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-8) or used in self-description by geoists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolibertarianism) who support individuals paying rent to the community for the use of land. Left libertarian parties, such as Green, share with "traditional socialism a distrust of the market, of private investment, and of the achievement ethic, and a commitment to expansion of the welfare state."[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#cite_note-9)

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It's a broad term that can refer to minarchist/anarchist ideals, and a range of economics. Overall though, it's anti-capitalist/privatization.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Isn't mutualism a form of socialism though?

[FreeFocus]

Left libertarianism should not be mistaken with libertarian socialism. Left libertarianism is market "anarchism". They are capitalists, mutualists, counter-economists, ect. They are not leftists.

Hey now, mutualism is a legitimate anti-capitalist and leftist ideology. While left libertarianism certainly includes ideologies such as mutualism, I also think left libertarianism is basically a synonym for libertarian socialism (although left libertarianism may be a bit broader).

[Durruti's Ghost]

"Left-libertarianism" is actually a name shared by two broad clusters of ideologies.

One of these clusters is libertarian socialism, and includes such ideologies as anarcho-communism, anarcho-collectivism, mutualism, anarcho-syndicalism, libertarian Marxism, and left communism.

The other is the more nebulous grouping represented at http://all-left.net/ that includes mutualism, individualist anarchism, a left-leaning form of "anarcho"-capitalism known as agorism, and geolibertarianism.

[GPDP]

Left-libertarian is such a vague and nearly meaningless term if you include so many ideologies within its umbrella, especially if they can be divided into at least two quite distinct groupings.

If we're gonna be using such nebulous catch-all terms, it'd be best if we differentiate between the market-oriented and collectivist/communist-oriented ideologies. Hence, "left-libertarianism" would be left to the former, and "libertarian socialism" to the later.

It'd be fitting, since I hardly ever hear any libertarian socialist call themselves a left-libertarian, while I do hear market anarchists call themselves such.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Left-libertarian is such a vague and nearly meaningless term if you include so many ideologies within its umbrella, especially if they can be divided into at least two quite distinct groupings.

If we're gonna be using such nebulous catch-all terms, it'd be best if we differentiate between the market-oriented and collectivist/communist-oriented ideologies. Hence, "left-libertarianism" would be left to the former, and "libertarian socialism" to the later...
Surely the former would be right-libertarianism? I just read it as shorthand for anti-capitalist (i.e., left), and anti-statist (i.e. libertarian). A bit vague, but a pretty good place to start off from.