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View Full Version : Bob Avakian's "Revolution" video posted online



redwinter
4th September 2009, 21:29
(This film is newly online in its entirety, I have read people discussing it on this forum several times and wanting to see it, so I thought it would be important to share on here...what are people's thoughts?)

REVOLUTION: Why It's Necessary, Why It's Possible, What It's All About
a film of a talk by Bob Avakian

Online at: http://www.revolutiontalk.net/

In 2003 Bob Avakian, Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party USA delivered an historic talk in the United States. This talk, followed by questions and answers, is a wide-ranging revolutionary journey, covering many topics. It breaks down the very nature of the society we live in and how humanity has come to a time where a radically different society is possible. It takes us deep into the heart of the horrors we see around us – from the oppression of whole peoples and parts of the world to what underlies brutal wars of domination – and why we live in a world where profound poverty, starvation and exploitation co-exist with unprecedented wealth. From the American nightmare to a sweeping vision of a whole new world, he breaks it all down, and shows how and why a radically different world can be brought forward. This film is full of heart and soul, humor and seriousness. It will challenge you and set your heart and mind to flight.

There is nothing online like THIS talk of Bob Avakian’s: nothing that answers the questions of why we are in the situation we are in... what is the source of the problem... and what is the nature of the solution. Nothing that gets at these questions as deeply, thoroughly and truthfully as this. Millions of people are searching for the truth, and watching videos, short and long. Some of these give part of the answer; but some of them—including some of the most popular—give people bullshit answers, pointing people in the wrong direction and spreading poison. Here, and all over the world, people need to see Revolution: Why It’s Necessary, Why It’s Possible, What It’s All About.


“Quite frankly, many people have never heard anyone say the things Chairman Avakian said, or have ever heard anyone talk about this world, this social system, this society, and another possible society and way of living in the way he did before. This talk addressed questions that literally millions of people all over the world are agonizing over at this moment.” [A communist artist]

“It’s like we’re in a situation where we don’t know where to go. It feels like an atmosphere of distrust, fear of the future, instability. I feel like there are no guidelines or parameters on where to go. But I think Bob Avakian has a plan full of hope in the face of uncertainty that weighs on people.” [Comment by a woman after showing of the DVD Revolución in Mexico City]

“In times like these, this clear voice for social change is a welcome relief from all the confusion and lies. Listen, and you will truly hear a voice of reason, with sharp analysis and deep understanding, going up against the tide of injustice and oppression. Of crucial importance is the fearless opposition to the rise of the Christian right and its pernicious effect on the political and cultural life in this country. While you might not agree with everything he says, he will challenge you with his insights and a clarion call to what must be done. ” [Reverend Earl Kooperkamp, Pastor, St. Mary’s Church, Harlem, NYC*]

“He was showing the kind of system we live in and what it does to all humanity... he was inviting people to rise up their sights, their views and look at things at this moment of history we’re in and the need to transform and change things.” [A young construction worker from Latin America]

“I heard Bob Avakian speak last year on the urgent and timely issue of revolution: why it’s necessary, why it’s possible, and what must be done to bring revolution about… His explanation of the workings of the imperialist system – and how the struggle of the people can get rid of it and replace it with a just and equitable society – was powerful and uplifting… This speech needs to be heard by others. It could take many more people onto the path toward that world liberation.” [Yuri Kochiyama]

A lengthy yet fascinating lecture by Bob Avakian, the Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party of the United States. In his first public appearance since 1979, Avakian offers an astute critical analysis of American politics and the Maoist tactics that he believes can bring about revolutionary change. Although 20th century history has demonstrated the complications inherent in achieving the Communist ideal, Avakian puts forth a compelling case that a revolutionary program is what contemporary America needs (if not necessarily what it desires). [Facets Multimedia]

“… [Avakian’s] communist analysis is graceful, and he lucidly explains concepts ranging from dialectical materialism to irony without condescending to his audience. Like a Richard Pryor concert film, Revolution cuts between different versions of the same material in this case, the same all-day lecture given on the east and west coasts in 2003. He's no less sharp when he's answering questions than when he's outlining his revolutionary program…" [Jonathan Rosenbaum, Chicago Reader critic, August 20, 2004]

“I highly recommend this talk as a starting place for study or an update to review the Marxist Leninist Maoist approach. Bob Avakian hurls an impassioned, articulate challenge to capitalism and US imperialism. Women’s liberation cannot be achieved without defeating these forces, therefore Avakian’s presentation is an important contribution.” [Carol Downer, Founder, Federation of Feminist Women’s Health Centers*]

“Whatever your political orientation or religious background, this comes across as a challenge that must be heard and wrestled with. There is great depth and seriousness in Bob Avakian’s analysis of a situation which most of us have failed to fully recognize. But he is confident that we can create a viable future for the planet. ” [Reverend George W. Webber, President Emeritus, New York Theological Seminary*]

“Bob Avakian, a thinker and activist of remarkable critical insights, sums up the lessons he has learned and the conclusions he has determined during more than thirty years of activism and leadership and guides present and future activists through a tough course which leads to the understanding of the imperatives for a new society.” [Dr. Juan Gómez Quiñones, historian and writer, UCLA*]

“It was like hearing Mao speak on the Long March.” [A young Black proletarian woman]

“If my people had a leader like this, we would have been free a long time ago.” [A young worker from the Mixtec national minority of Mexico]

“He speaks from the heart and at the same time with such a sweeping understanding, with total resolution, and not just with hatred for the bourgeoisie but confidence in the masses of people.” [a young immigrant woman from South Asia]

“When I first started watching the Revolution DVD it was like a book I couldn't put down. Bob Avakian is unsparing in shining a light on the darkest aspects of American history and the capitalist system that underlies it. No American should allow fear, pride or prejudice against Avakian because of his communist beliefs, to keep them from facing these truths about their country. Avakian did not just fall out of the sky the other day to preach revolution. He was part of some of the signature movements of the 1960's: the Berkeley Free Speech Movement, SDS and the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. He has been observing and studying the decline of the American political system for decades. Bob Avakian has much that is relevant to say to us. Watch this DVD!” [progressive democrat]

“A journey to be savored.” [a veteran communist]

“I loved everything about it, including its presentation and its factual basis. In this talk, Bob Avakian says, ‘White supremacy is built into the foundation of this country.’ I agree with that and I think it’s impossible to remove under the current system of government…

“When Emmett Till was murdered for whistling at a white woman in 1955, we were devastated and felt the same concern. As young Black men, we didn’t know whether they would come after us or not for playing basketball in the south. Our team was the first integrated team to play at the college level in the south. When we played in Oklahoma, the fans called us ‘N....,’ and yelled, ‘Get those n..., off the court!’ They threw nickels and quarters at us while we were playing and called us Globetrotters. The Black players weren’t allowed to stay in the hotel. Our team met and decided that we were all going to stay together, so the white and Black players stayed at the University of Oklahoma university dorms. When we won that game, we celebrated by ourselves in the empty dorm... The attitude of the fans and the white society overall was that we shouldn’t be playing in the first place. Not only were we playing, but we beat everyone we played against…

“This experience of oppression for Black people is going to continue and it will get worse, unless there’s a change. I believe a revolution will have to come about for it to change.” [Hal Perry, (1933-2009), former basketball player, on listening to "They’re selling postcards of the hanging”]

“Avakian, speaking in public in the U.S. last year for the first time since 1979, offers a full plan for revolutionary transformation, and he gets the attention of Black Americans right away on these four DVDs in his passionate discussion of lynching, police brutality, racial profiling and issues pertinent to African Americans.

"Recalling the vicious assaults on Claude Neal, Mary Turner and Emmett Till, Avakian provides a brutal and bloody outline of tragedy, and does it with a fervor that is far too uncommon coming from the mouth of a white man. I can think of only Tim Wise who comes close to genuinely evoking white sympathy as he assails racism and white supremacy." [The Revolution may not be televised, but it's on film by Herb Boyd, The Amsterdam News, August 5, 2004]

* for identification only

INDEX

DISC I - Session I
1. “They’re selling postcards of the hanging”
2. Police: Enforcers of oppression and madness
3. 1960’s: Racism and oppression challenged head-on
4. A world of rape and sexual assault
5. “Traditional” values - tradition’s chains
6. U.S. expands through conquest and exploitation
7. Youth deserve a better future
8. Not fit caretakers of the earth
9. A history of genocide and war crimes
10. As long as you don’t say nothin’
11. Why do people come here from all over the world?
DISC 2 - Session 2
1. What is capitalism?
2. A lopsided imperialist world
3. How the world got this way
4. A better world is possible
5. Today, societies are divided into classes
6. The proletariat and communism
7. Imagine ... a new society Healthcare, work, education, science, etc...
8. The dictatorship of the proletariat, and what it’s for
9. The “voting trap” under capitalism
10. Democracy and dictatorship during socialism
11. Overcoming wounds and scars from capitalism
12. From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs
13. It’s not “Make them suffer like we suffered”
14. Carrying forward the revolution under socialism
15. “Two sides” to globalization
16. A vampire system with “NUKE-ular” weapons
17. International class-world-wide struggle
DISC 3 - Session 3
1. How could we actually make revolution, in a country like the U.S.?
2. Uniting all who can be united for revolution
3. Iraq war resistance—what was accomplished?
4. Learning while leading, leading while learning
5. The “solid core” of the united front, and ending national oppression
6. How a revolutionary situation can come about
7. It’s not just “The Corporations”
8. Why not bring about change peacefully?
9. Isn’t the problem “human nature?”
10. Dialectical materialism, historical materialism
11. Religion
12. Does communism equal “totalitarianism?”
13. Valuing dissent in socialist society
14. The people need leadership ... a communist vanguard party
15. A challenge and call: get with the party
DISC 4 - Questions and Answers
1. Smoke weed in socialism?
2. Difficulty for proletarians to get active?
3. Change for women in a new society?
4. Another war for election purposes? (pyramid)
5. What made you not believe in god?
6. First thought on 9/1I?
7. How to reach the proletariat?
8. More on 9/1I?
9. When will people fight for a different future?
10. How does the party keep its goal of revolution?
11. Is communism a European ideology?
12. Reparations for African-Americans?
13. Breaking down borders under socialism?
14. A new generation of revolutionary leaders?
15. Huey Newton and the Black Panther Party?
16. Favorite band, favorite movie?
17. We need a revolutionary people.
18. Involving more minority youth?
19. At 89, I want to see change.

punisa
4th September 2009, 21:33
Thanks for sharing, looks interesting. I'll watch if first before coming out with comment. But one question - is the posted material full movie or just snippets?

UPDATE: got it, you gotta go to http://www.revolutiontalk.net/films/ to see the entire film, front page only has snippets.

punisa
4th September 2009, 23:04
Ok, so I watched a little over 1.5 hours and now I believe I can make a comment on it.
I know that some people hold it very against Bob for having certain "deviations" towards how socialism should be reached, but that is about his theory.

But the speech he gave there was nothing less then brilliant !
I say so with a very good reason.
It's one hell of great material to show any person who is not yet introduced to the leftist ideology. He speaks "to the masses" and I really like that.
As a matter of fact I just mailed the link to a couple of people who (I hope) will be interested to see it.

He did a great job by providing hard evidences why capitalism must be destroyed, not just in the economic, but in a humanist sense.
I learned a lot by watching hours and hours of Chomsky or Harvey, but these are not the materials I'd give someone who is totally clueless on human exploitation.
Bob on the other hand made a speech I was kinda waiting for, something I can deal around :)

Its a lecture that almost everyone can understand. Again, thank you very much for sharing this. I encourage everyone to spend some time on it.

redwinter
5th September 2009, 00:21
Ok, so I watched a little over 1.5 hours and now I believe I can make a comment on it.
I know that some people hold it very against Bob for having certain "deviations" towards how socialism should be reached, but that is about his theory.

But the speech he gave there was nothing less then brilliant !
I say so with a very good reason.
It's one hell of great material to show any person who is not yet introduced to the leftist ideology. He speaks "to the masses" and I really like that.
As a matter of fact I just mailed the link to a couple of people who (I hope) will be interested to see it.

He did a great job by providing hard evidences why capitalism must be destroyed, not just in the economic, but in a humanist sense.
I learned a lot by watching hours and hours of Chomsky or Harvey, but these are not the materials I'd give someone who is totally clueless on human exploitation.
Bob on the other hand made a speech I was kinda waiting for, something I can deal around :)

Its a lecture that almost everyone can understand. Again, thank you very much for sharing this. I encourage everyone to spend some time on it.

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment you expressed here, punisa...and I highly encourage everyone to spread this online through email, myspace, facebook, twitter, whatever technologies you have at your disposal. It's cool to see that this has already reached all the way to the Balkans and that you're getting it around to comrades there...let us know what they think of it, invite them here to get in on the discussion!

Think of the millions of people around the world who need to hear this analysis and learn about this leader, who are feeling this same way...and in a scientific and approachable way get reality broken down the way it really is and are invited along on the revolutionary journey to wrangle with understanding the world and changing it.

What kind of change might it make if those millions actually got a chance to check this out?
And what revolutionary opportunities would be lost if they don't?

scarletghoul
5th September 2009, 00:27
It is a pretty great lecture, and something worth spreading. I think Avakian's a cool person, however the RCP's cult of personality around him is stupid and does more harm than good, as it gives the impression of them as an irrational cult rather than a revolutionary vanguard. Unfortunately cult of personality is something all too common in Maoism, but especially in this day and age I think it is an outdated propaganda method. What needs publicity is Avakian's ideas, not his name.

Anyway yeah great video

punisa
5th September 2009, 00:46
It is a pretty great lecture, and something worth spreading. I think Avakian's a cool person, however the RCP's cult of personality around him is stupid and does more harm than good, as it gives the impression of them as an irrational cult rather than a revolutionary vanguard. Unfortunately cult of personality is something all too common in Maoism, but especially in this day and age I think it is an outdated propaganda method. What needs publicity is Avakian's ideas, not his name.

Anyway yeah great video

Is RCP really set up like that? I guess all of you who live in the states know much better. Actually this is the first time I heard Bob speak.
To me he gave an image of a very (maybe even too much) down to earth kind of guy. This video being the only thing I ever saw of him, I find it rather hard to imagine him as a cult of personality guy.
And trust me, I come from Yugoslavia - country of cultist personalities :lol:

But I guess you are right, cause I saw many many people here on Revleft talk about RCP in that light.
If it is indeed such, then I must say it's a terrible waste - cause this guy can really talk. And I mean charisma-style "talk" :)
But a personality cult is the last thing we need for 21st century socialism :glare:

I'll research deeper into it, right after I finish watching those vids :)

bailey_187
5th September 2009, 13:30
Thanks

I enjoyed the 7 talks so i will probably enjoy this



lol, i like how Bob Avakian always has reviews of his works and books from normal people like "young black man from Harlem" or "Latin American construction worker"

Sugar Hill Kevis
5th September 2009, 14:18
“It was like hearing Mao speak on the Long March.” [A young Black proletarian woman]

I'm glad they didn't use my name.

redwinter
5th September 2009, 20:20
Is RCP really set up like that? I guess all of you who live in the states know much better. Actually this is the first time I heard Bob speak.
To me he gave an image of a very (maybe even too much) down to earth kind of guy. This video being the only thing I ever saw of him, I find it rather hard to imagine him as a cult of personality guy.
And trust me, I come from Yugoslavia - country of cultist personalities :lol:

But I guess you are right, cause I saw many many people here on Revleft talk about RCP in that light.
If it is indeed such, then I must say it's a terrible waste - cause this guy can really talk. And I mean charisma-style "talk" :)
But a personality cult is the last thing we need for 21st century socialism :glare:

I'll research deeper into it, right after I finish watching those vids :)

Actually, the RCP is not a personality cult...the Party is inspired by this re-envisioning of revolution and communism by Avakian, and is dedicated to bringing that into being. There's no other leader in the international communist movement putting forward what he is.

Many times though, people (including radical-minded people who post on revleft) spontaneously under capitalist society develop a petit-bourgeois line on leadership, where having or putting forward any leader is bad and equivalent to a personality cult.

I'd point people to (http://www.revcom.us/a/159/BA_Appreciation-en.html)An Open Letter to the Revolutionary Communists and Everyone Seriously Thinking About Revolution: On the Role and Importance of Bob Avakian (http://www.revcom.us/a/159/BA_Appreciation-en.html) for info on the RCP's line on their leader.

And for those more interested in topics around "21st century socialism", the international communist movement and the new synthesis being put forward here: Communism: The Beginning of a New Stage (http://revcom.us/Manifesto/Manifesto.html), a Manifesto from the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA.

I think every single person who checks this out needs to forward it along to all of their friends and contacts, spread the word about this video, and organize showings of it in their schools, dorms, workplace break rooms, and at parties...then get some serious debate and discussion going on about this, and deepen our revolutionary understanding.
(http://www.revcom.us/a/159/BA_Appreciation-en.html)

The Something
5th September 2009, 20:37
The way he speaks and refers to little stories and such reminds me way to much (and eerily I might add) sounds so much like a preacher.

Just a comment on his speech style, not on the substance.

Sugar Hill Kevis
5th September 2009, 21:26
Actually, the RCP is not a personality cult...the Party is inspired by this re-envisioning of revolution and communism by Avakian, and is dedicated to bringing that into being. There's no other leader in the international communist movement putting forward what he is.

Many times though, people (including radical-minded people who post on revleft) spontaneously under capitalist society develop a petit-bourgeois line on leadership, where having or putting forward any leader is bad and equivalent to a personality cult.

I'd point people to An Open Letter to the Revolutionary Communists and Everyone Seriously Thinking About Revolution: On the Role and Importance of Bob Avakian (http://www.revcom.us/a/159/BA_Appreciation-en.html) for info on the RCP's line on their leader.

And for those more interested in topics around "21st century socialism", the international communist movement and the new synthesis being put forward here: Communism: The Beginning of a New Stage (http://revcom.us/Manifesto/Manifesto.html), a Manifesto from the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA.

I think every single person who checks this out needs to forward it along to all of their friends and contacts, spread the word about this video, and organize showings of it in their schools, dorms, workplace break rooms, and at parties...then get some serious debate and discussion going on about this, and deepen our revolutionary understanding.


Given that the open letter is entitled “…On the role and importance of Bob Avakian” as opposed to say, “On the role and importance of leadership” doesn’t do much to dispel allegations of a cult of personality. The grandeur around him is fantastic to boot, that he’s underground despite being cleared of any criminal charges back in the ‘80s. When Castro isn’t seen for a few months, there is wild speculation as to his health, whether or not he’s dead. When Bob Avakian goes off the grid, everyone forgets about him sans a handful of RCP fanboys waiting for their god that will never come. His last public appearance was 2003 right? Perhaps if Avakian was more of a public figure some of he’d be somewhat less alluring.

The faux-proletarian appeal in the reviews is beyond me as well.
“If my people had a leader like this, we would have been free a long time ago.” [A young worker from the Mixtec national minority of Mexico]
Bob Avakian: everything that Emiliano Zapata (or more contemporarily perhaps the EZLN?) wasn’t.

The ‘fact’ there is ‘nobody in the international communist movement’ putting forward things in the same way as Bob Avakian isn’t essentially a positive thing. If someone said the same thing about the Sparts, I’d probably wipe my brow and thank god/Mao/Bob. That’s putting aside that if you critically examine that sentence it’s a hideous sweeping statement. It’s also putting aside the dubious philosophy of Western Maoism.

On one final tangent; disecting the personal attributes that should go some way to explaining why Bob Avakian is such a captivating/inspiring figure leaves me somewhat stumped as well. He's a 'good' public speaker, but I don't find him entrancing. If anything I think he's got quite a relaxing voice, it doesn't instill me with revolutionary fervor.

(the above being said, he sounds fairly decent on the Koba track where they sampled his speech on youth. The RCP site for it is dead now, but I took the liberty of reuploading (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F5B7KP8X) the track).

spiltteeth
5th September 2009, 22:05
I love these speeches, I think Avakian comes across as a sensible down to earth guy.

However, I wouldn't say he's a great speaker, like Lenin, Trotsky, Castro, or Chavez.

I do think RCP is quite Culty, for a good analysis of Bob and RCP I'd recommend Mike Ely from Kasama which has a lot of ex-RCP members : http://mikeely.wordpress.com/

Orange Juche
5th September 2009, 22:25
Who lives in an ego-cult inside of his head, SPONGEBOB AVAKIAN!

redwinter
5th September 2009, 23:30
anyone have more thoughts besides just that he's a great speaker, or that you love these speeches?

what about the content of what he's putting out in this speech -- do you actually think this is the same thing that castro or chávez are promoting? or has anything to do with those visions?

i'd point people more towards the third section of the video (with more specifically on the vision of socialist society, getting to communism, valuing dissent in socialism, is communism "totalitarianism", etc)...and would invite people to compare and contrast the lines of castro and chávez (or some of the other leaders that people put forward in this thread, like zapata, the EZLN or trotsky) and see what the differences are.

I'm just going to ignore the trolling one-liners for the time being, because i don't think they are really contributing to any discussion, and come from a position of ideological weakness -- if you want to critique the content of what Avakian has to say, you have twelve hours of video to get started with...I invite some of the haters to "do the work", and then let's get into the real ideological differences. I did post that "Open Letter" link above for a reason, but that's not the beginning nor the end of the debate on leadership...

bailey_187
5th September 2009, 23:35
I love these speeches, I think Avakian comes across as a sensible down to earth guy.

However, I wouldn't say he's a great speaker, like Lenin, Trotsky, Castro, or Chavez.

I do think RCP is quite Culty, for a good analysis of Bob and RCP I'd recommend Mike Ely from Kasama which has a lot of ex-RCP members : http://mikeely.wordpress.com/

Lenin was shit speaker apparently. Couldn't pronounce his R's i think

spiltteeth
6th September 2009, 00:18
Just to be clear, I wasn't comparing Avaiken's content to the speeches of Castro or Chavez etc, I just think his lacks their passionate intensity.

The content is mostly spot on, although in the beginning Bob seems kinda stuck in the 60's, giving accounts of racism and sexism from 70 yrs ago.

His 'vision' is very broad, devoid of specific solutions, so I don't think many would disagree that we need a revolution, capitalism is bad, reformism doesn't address systemic problems, America does bad things, etc etc

Unlike the anarchists, although I truly value them, I'm all for a leader. Avakian's not bad but most of the criticism for the RCP is about its structure, it's constant beating of the drum how great Bob is, it's focus on selling newspapers etc
And I have heard Bob has a 'new synthesis' but after searching for a few months in his books and on the website I couldn't find anything like that.

Again, the content itself is really too broad to really disagree with, except for his insistence on the need for a leader, which I can agree with an a general way.

RHIZOMES
6th September 2009, 03:28
Wow isn't that like the first picture/footage of RCP's dear leader since like 1980?

n0thing
6th September 2009, 04:21
Glorious days indeed.
The dear leader has blessed us with a documentary.

The Something
6th September 2009, 09:01
It would be funny if there was a little counter at the bottom of the screen that dinged every time he said " Mao said...." ahahahahaha.

black magick hustla
6th September 2009, 09:49
i like how the people they quote have extensive descriptions like "young hella brown proletarian dressed with rags and smelling like factory" that gives hella street cred to bobby sponge avakian

Revy
6th September 2009, 10:12
If Bob Avakian wants to be considered a "leader", he has to do more than give one talk six years ago.

If Bob Avakian is the leadership we have, where is he? Is he giving speeches, appearing in the press? No...and while he refuses to actually seize hold of leadership, real leadership, he will be unknown outside the RCP.

Wanted Man
6th September 2009, 11:24
i like how the people they quote have extensive descriptions like "young hella brown proletarian dressed with rags and smelling like factory" that gives hella street cred to bobby sponge avakian

Hella? Don't you mean "totally radical"?

Anyway, I'm never entirely sure what the point of these things is. Although I am delighted to see that they have apparently realised that not all young black female Mexican proletarians are going to shell out money to see it on DVD.

The whole idea of pushing the "leader" onto the unwilling masses seems hopelessly idealist to me. There is no real engagement with the masses as a whole, that you can base your theories on, and decide on leadership issues in practice. No, it's a lot more simple: this is our leader, we want him to be your leader too, he is the best thing since Marx, Lenin and sliced bread. So we go to the streets to proselytise, and we expect people to recognise that he has "the right ideas" (without ever showing that this is the case in practice), and we expect them to "dig into" it or whatever hopelessly outdated language they use these days.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Don't you ever wonder why so few people are willing to, out of the blue, "dig into" these videos and then critique them and compare them to Chavez or Fidel? Because there's absolutely no reason to. If Avakian is "the leadership we need", why doesn't he do more to take up the mantle? Maybe there really isn't so much to him in reality? Maybe the vast majority of people will always reject "leadership" of an invisible leader being pushed by zealots? Anyone who chooses to "really engage with this great man's ideas" will be doing so on an entirely theoretical and academic level. An untested program that can, at best, be compared to other untested programs. At least if you read Fidel's reflections, you know where he's coming from.

The fact about Avakian is that the man is notably absent from every form of class struggle, therefore he will never be able to take up any meaningful leadership. In fact, the whole invisible leadership thing mostly just reminds me of the internet classic Kissing Hank's Ass (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/hank).

chegitz guevara
6th September 2009, 19:29
I have to admit, he's a damn good speaker.

n0thing
7th September 2009, 16:05
Anyone else reminded of Charlie Manson when you hear him talk?

There's something very distinctive about 60's cult leaders.

redwinter
8th September 2009, 04:13
Hella? Don't you mean "totally radical"?

Anyway, I'm never entirely sure what the point of these things is. Although I am delighted to see that they have apparently realised that not all young black female Mexican proletarians are going to shell out money to see it on DVD.

The whole idea of pushing the "leader" onto the unwilling masses seems hopelessly idealist to me. There is no real engagement with the masses as a whole, that you can base your theories on, and decide on leadership issues in practice. No, it's a lot more simple: this is our leader, we want him to be your leader too, he is the best thing since Marx, Lenin and sliced bread. So we go to the streets to proselytise, and we expect people to recognise that he has "the right ideas" (without ever showing that this is the case in practice), and we expect them to "dig into" it or whatever hopelessly outdated language they use these days.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Don't you ever wonder why so few people are willing to, out of the blue, "dig into" these videos and then critique them and compare them to Chavez or Fidel? Because there's absolutely no reason to. If Avakian is "the leadership we need", why doesn't he do more to take up the mantle? Maybe there really isn't so much to him in reality? Maybe the vast majority of people will always reject "leadership" of an invisible leader being pushed by zealots? Anyone who chooses to "really engage with this great man's ideas" will be doing so on an entirely theoretical and academic level. An untested program that can, at best, be compared to other untested programs. At least if you read Fidel's reflections, you know where he's coming from.

The fact about Avakian is that the man is notably absent from every form of class struggle, therefore he will never be able to take up any meaningful leadership. In fact, the whole invisible leadership thing mostly just reminds me of the internet classic Kissing Hank's Ass (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/hank).

The history of the communist movement is a history of connecting the masses with communist leadership.

Before the masses support communist leaders they historically have been quite "unwilling" as you put it: look at, for instance, the mass reaction in Russia after the 1905 revolution was put down and the flourishing of the Black Hundreds, and tons of masses of oppressed people lining up behind the Tsar (up until he lead thousands and thousands to their deaths in World War I).

I just don't see why we would expect the masses to spontaneously gravitate towards communist leadership, as if just because it's correct means that people are going to support it--that kind of viewpoint seems really metaphysical and unscientific to me.

And this line was just weird:


Maybe the vast majority of people will always reject "leadership" of an invisible leader being pushed by zealots?

Were you not aware that the vast majority of humanity today is rushing to embrace the leadership of an invisible leader being pushed by zealots? We call this phenomenon religion. It might be a lot easier to get a religious type of movement going (even including people who uphold Che, Fidel or Chavez as religious-type savior icons), but what we need is people thinking critically and getting into this analysis Avakian's brought forward.

Uh, and I actually do think it is necessary for people to get into this theory "on a theoretical level" (come the fuck on, people). Theory must run ahead of practice or else there's no point to any of Marxism -- otherwise why should Lenin or a Petrograd factory worker in April 1917 have taken up Marxism when it was an "untested" theory, when Marx had never participated in the only real revolutionary upsurge that occurred during his lifetime (the Paris Commune) which wasn't really influenced by his ideas at all?

So, by the way, there are also some clips on YouTube that are also part of this speech set, people can get into them and spread them around: http://www.youtube.com/user/RevolutionTalk

n0thing
8th September 2009, 04:34
He's a good speaker, but he doesn't sound very intelligent in the Q&A: He rambles, makes bad jokes (huge laughter from RCP audience anyway), and talks in simple terms about simple things.

So I can assume that he got to where he is purely on his speaking ability. Which I think says something about the RCP

New Tet
8th September 2009, 05:03
A good talk badly read.

communick
8th September 2009, 14:03
If Bob is such a great leader, why is the RCP shrinking and absent from virtually every social struggle/movement?

More walk/less talk.

I was in the RCYB about a decade ago and, yes, it is a personality cult. It was then and it has gotten worse.

...petty bourgeois managerial outlook in regard to the proles who need "a leader of a special caliber".

Study the Shining Path and how blind allegiance to the one true leader can destroy a movement-Jefetura

Cooler Reds Will Prevail
10th September 2009, 00:33
The talk is worth watching I think. It's not going to satisfy your deep theoretical thirst but it's still delivered pretty well for the most part. I haven't watched it in like a year though so I don't really remember much to critique, plus I was organizing with the ReCiPes back then so I had a much less critical view of it all.

Kassad
10th September 2009, 00:45
I've been meaning to ask this to Revolutionary Communist Party USA supporters for a while. What happens when Chairman Avakian dies? Since he is viewed as such a critically important figure in the development of socialist revolution in the United States, what happens when he dies? I mean, does the Revolutionary Communist Party think that all hope is lost once Avakian dies? I'm legitimately interested in how you think the party and socialist revolution will progress after Bob Avakian passes away.

Cooler Reds Will Prevail
10th September 2009, 01:02
I've been meaning to ask this to Revolutionary Communist Party USA supporters for a while. What happens when Chairman Avakian dies? Since he is viewed as such a critically important figure in the development of socialist revolution in the United States, what happens when he dies? I mean, does the Revolutionary Communist Party think that all hope is lost once Avakian dies? I'm legitimately interested in how you think the party and socialist revolution will progress after Bob Avakian passes away.

Wait wait wait... I think I know the answer to this one!

"When Bob Avakian dies it's going to totally suck, and I'm going to talk in circles about how important he is to the communist movement and why we need to make a revolution now using his scientific synthesis that everybody needs to engage with before he dies or we iz screwed."

Nwoye
10th September 2009, 01:03
the dear leader will never die