christian-American Confusion

[KarlMarx1989]

I was wondering if there were any connections between the Gothic period and the Nazi Germany period.

I am what one would normally call gothic. However, when I walk around town, I have people making specific remarks to me. I am not bothered when I am called a freak or something like that. I actually am bothered, and rather confused, when people say "White power" and "Hitler is dead" at me.

I am not a supporter of Hitler, I am not even a follower of christianism. Yet people confuse me with being a neo-Nazi for some reason. I also happen to know that neo-Nazis dress just like everyday redneck christian-Americans.

So, can someone help me out, here?

[Holden Caulfield]

I wouldn't say there is a link other than people who love paganism and other occult things and who are trying to rebel by dressing in a certain way are often gravitated towards fucked up ideas like Satanism of Nazism (as you can see in some Black/Death Metal Bands). But the nazi connection is fucking tiny and insignificant.

That said, I wouldnt make the connection of goth=nazi and I don't think anybody in the UK would. Perhaps people who give you abuse are just mindless ****s, or perhaps it is different in America. Goth is hardly skinhead.

Perhaps they see the gothic look as something german, nordic, etc and dumbly label you a nazi for that reason.

Happy as I am to answe your questions this doesn't really need a thread in the anti-fascist forum, in future give post on my page or post in another forum.

much love
holden

[KarlMarx1989]

Well, OK; but I thought that, since I am anti-Nazi, I was expressing a view of being against Nazism and being confused as to why people would associate me with something I am against. However, I do realize that this is anti-fascism actions, so will do next time.

[Holden Caulfield]

Well, OK; but I thought that, since I am anti-Nazi, I was expressing a view of being against Nazism and being confused as to why people would associate me with something I am against. However, I do realize that this is anti-fascism actions, so will do next time.

don't worry about it comrade, I was just saying it was abit out of place, I don't mind other wise I would have moved this one.

[Dr Mindbender]

I was wondering if there were any connections between the Gothic period and the Nazi Germany period.

I am what one would normally call gothic. However, when I walk around town, I have people making specific remarks to me. I am not bothered when I am called a freak or something like that. I actually am bothered, and rather confused, when people say "White power" and "Hitler is dead" at me.

I am not a supporter of Hitler, I am not even a follower of christianism. Yet people confuse me with being a neo-Nazi for some reason. I also happen to know that neo-Nazis dress just like everyday redneck christian-Americans.

So, can someone help me out, here?

I think the nazis romanticised the 'second reich' because they viewed it as a time of ethnic 'purity' before the meeting of west and east.

I think it's for no reason that they idolise viking mythology and religions; Odin, Freya, Thor etc. The overlap between Goth and nazi culture is unfortunate, but i dont think it in any way means they are political befellows. The vast majority of goths ive encountered are politically nihilist.

[Holden Caulfield]

Also whats the deal with your banging on about christians all the time, such as in your blog?

[Rjevan]

I wouldn't say there is a link other than people who love paganism and other occult things and who are trying to rebel by dressing in a certain way are often gravitated towards fucked up ideas like Satanism of Nazism (as you can see in some Black/Death Metal Bands). But the nazi connection is fucking tiny and insignificant.

This. Sadly some people who are into occultism, pagansim or gothic seem to be magically attracted by nazism, there are many many books and essays about "The Third Reich and the occult", "The true powers behind Hitler" or "The connection between National Socialism and Satanism" and so I guess some people think: goth = satanist = nazi
But those pagans who are into white supremacy and nazism are a minority and so are the gothics so seeing somebody looking like a gothic and chanting "Hitler is dead" is definitely out of place.

[KarlMarx1989]

Also whats the deal with your banging on about christians all the time, such as in your blog?
Well, in person; I think you'd find that I am more against people who misuse christianity for personal gain or to get their way with people they feel uncomfortable around as I have met christians who still practice it properly who are actually very nice people. I don't emphasize on it enough, I suppose. I do find it a little tedious to outline that so much. Most of the, about, 75% of Americans who are christian; I would guess--as a "ballpark" figure--about 25% or so of that 75% practice christianity properly in christian-America. As you may have seen; there are people in the media, as well as in the government, who practice christianity wrongly for the wrong reasons. That, as you may guess, affects the gullible people who listen to the media's bias; which is a surprisingly high number. It is a growing problem, here in chrisitan-America, and I don't see any hope in changing that.

[9]

Most of the, about, 75% of Americans who are christian; I would guess--as a "ballpark" figure--about 25% or so of that 75% practice christianity properly in christian-America. As you may have seen; there are people in the media, as well as in the government, who practice christianity wrongly

What constitutes "practicing Christianity properly" is no objective matter. Every practicing Christian (or practicing member of any of the Abrahamic religions) claims to be "doing it the right way", whatever that means.


But in response to your original post, I am as perplexed as anyone. I've dealt with a good number of neo-Nazis and Nazi sympathizers growing up and they've all been (to provide some crude stereotypes) either the redneck-wannabe pickup truck sort or jocks. It may be a regional thing (though I didn't see where you were from, other than somewhere in the US), but I've never seen/heard anyone associate goths with Nazis.
Though some of the assertions others have made in this thread do make sense.

[KarlMarx1989]

What constitutes "practicing Christianity properly" is no objective matter. Every practicing Christian (or practicing member of any of the Abrahamic religions) claims to be "doing it the right way", whatever that means.
What I mean by that is the people who read Biblia Sacra and follow what it says without taking anything out of context. The presbyterian church I visit every so often has preachers who make sure no one leaves getting the wrong impression of the teachings of their messiah. I think if christians were more like this, then maybe christian-America wouldn't be so bad. However, so many abuse/misuse it. Then you get something like Rome. Rome collapsed soon after it embraced christianity not because of the religion itself, but because of the combination of church and state; which is where catholicism basically came from.

[Holden Caulfield]

but because of the combination of church and state
thats a myth comrade, Rome collapsed because its economic system weakened the central system, the provinces became too advanced and removed Romes export market (I think thats it in a nutshell, ask in history forum for a better answer) when Rome collapsed the only bit that survived and thrived was the Church/Bureaucracy.

However the mixture of Church and state thing is pretty near the mark.

[KarlMarx1989]

I was aware of the economic system, I learned that because the economic system was worsening that they embraced christianity to try to bring some moral stability into the population and they hoped that christianity's morals would prevail in their people. That, in turn, never ended up working out; partly because catholicism is nothing like actual christianity but also because of the money they put into promoting christianity--as they knew it.