Are We Preaching To The Choir On These Forums?

[Outinleftfield]

There are some issues we don't all agree on and there's a lot of discussion and debate on those issues and there are a few critics who come to this site, but aren't we mostly preaching to the choir?

The people who really need to hear our voice are the people who blog and post on mainstream discussion sites.

I post on mainstream sites sometimes debating people about capitalism, and the state and bringing a socialist perspective to a number of issues.

I suggest these sites:

Topix- www.topix.com (http://www.topix.com) -A lot of conservatives on this news site, but most people with any kind of rational argument tend to be the progressive. You're unlikely to win over the conservatives but progressives will be more open minded.

Yahoo- answers.yahoo.com (http://answers.yahoo.com) -Need to have a yahoo account. People ask all kinds of questions on there. I've seen some very disturbingly bigoted answers from some far right members there. Its time to make yahoo fair and balanced.

Youtube- www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com) - Self-explanatory.

We're not going to change the world if we just keep to ourselves. We need to educate people who think differently than us.

Any other site suggestions would be good.

[The Something]

Here's my suggestion: There are many "armchair activists". We need to get out there and start doing actual things in reality. I mean telling some people on youtube that capitalism is bad and to fight their bourgeoisie oppressor is all fine and good, but I feel as though it doesn't change anything tangibly. Maybe I'm just venting, but this is how I feel about this right now and the "left" on here and in general.

[Outinleftfield]

Here's my suggestion: There are many "armchair activists". We need to get out there and start doing actual things in reality. I mean telling some people on youtube that capitalism is bad and to fight their bourgeoisie oppressor is all fine and good, but I feel as though it doesn't change anything tangibly. Maybe I'm just venting, but this is how I feel about this right now and the "left" on here and in general.

I see where you're coming from. You're right. Just talking will never bring us anywhere. Only action can make change. But talking is still important. We need more people to agree with our ideas before anything significant can be done. I've seen that the radical right doesnt hold back in making its presence felt on the internet. Ive seen many comments from 'libertarian' capitalists on the one end and neo-nazis and hatemongerers on the other. Thats why sadly the radical right keeps growing. Many people realize that something isn't working and when they see opinions from right-wingers they accept them easily as the "solution" to the world's problems. They need another perspective.

If enough leftists comment on mainstream sites it could have a bandwagon effect. Many people might already be considering radical left ideas but aren't sure and don't talk openly about these views because they are afraid of other's opinions. Some might not agree with our ideas but have thought about them a little and political taboo is stopping them from thinking about it too much. If we show them they aren't alone these people will be more willing to open up and for those who aren't sure to continue thinking about our ideas.

I wonder how many of us are open about our beliefs in public with family? friends? strangers? boss? coworkers? professors? teachers? Even many of us who know where we stand keep quiet off the internet. We can not affoard to keep quiet. The world can't wait. Next time when the subject is politics talk about how it ties in with class. Talk about how it ties in with socialism. When someone says something you disagree with calmly explain your point of view. If the logic is flawed point it out. If they have their facts wrong point it out. We are right. Reason is on our side. We just have to reach more people. The fate of the world depends on it.

[RedSonRising]

I agree with most points stated already, but I don't think that "preaching to the choir" necessarily excludes dedicating time to those unfamiliar with class struggle. Checking and challenging each others' viewpoints on leftist issues is vital to the development of individual judgment and interpretation, and that makes one better equipped to organize or educate among both committed leftists and potential revolutionaries.

[willdw79]

Here's my suggestion: There are many "armchair activists". We need to get out there and start doing actual things in reality. I mean telling some people on youtube that capitalism is bad and to fight their bourgeoisie oppressor is all fine and good, but I feel as though it doesn't change anything tangibly. Maybe I'm just venting, but this is how I feel about this right now and the "left" on here and in general.
You use the phrase "armchair marxist", why? It is a term that only divides Marxists. In order to have revolution (which I think is your goal) we need people who talk about Marxism in all circles. Also, everybody is not a fighter.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Here's my suggestion: There are many "armchair activists". We need to get out there and start doing actual things in reality. I mean telling some people on youtube that capitalism is bad and to fight their bourgeoisie oppressor is all fine and good, but I feel as though it doesn't change anything tangibly. Maybe I'm just venting, but this is how I feel about this right now and the "left" on here and in general.

Ffs. Not directed at you in particular so don't take it personally. This has been stated so many times and I have not even been a member for that long.

Firstly, many of us are not 'armchair activists' and do things in real life. I know many of the UK comrades do. Just look at the Anti-Fascism forum. How many Brits on here were at the G20, BNP's RWB for the counter demos, Mayday marches, Anarchist bookfairs and so on? A lot actually. Many, many users on the site do an awful lot of work in their free time. Secondly, it is not possible for everyone to get active. Not everyone lives in a highly populated area and the left are very small these days in comparison to other movements. Therefore, getting active is near impossible for some people and they probably do a bloody good job of making use of the internet to substitute for this. Lastly, in relation to your final point, the left are small. The left are rather actice for our size if you consider the amount of groups and parties there are not to mention newspapers and magazines. Yes, we are too divided however, as I have said before inactivity is not confined to the left. Where are all of these hundreds of thousands of Stormfront members beyond their site? Are a high percentage of them active? We try pretty hard you know. Well, harder than you are making out.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Are We Preaching To The Choir On These Forums?Yes. This forum doesn't have a broad appeal beyond those already on the far-left or perhaps disenfranchised social democrats. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, and perhaps you're missing the point of this site. RevLeft tends to function as an internal debate community, where people can just interact with other leftists (say like a biker bar). The fact that we house people from both 'authoritarian' and 'libertarian' schools of thought means there's an innate sort of ideological disunity, which doesn't really lend well to an atmosphere where we could 'recruit' people.

I really don't think that the internet is a good tool for recruiting people, neither is selling papers - people don't tend to radically change the foundations of their political beliefs because of one 16 page newspaper they come across. All the same, both the internet and producing leftist papers serve important functions.

The 'armchair revolutionary' pejorative gets thrown around a lot here. Usually it's by people who use it out of self guilt for their own inaction (assuming everyone else on the site is equally inactive) or by someone who just went to their first troops out demo and thinks they're Che Guevara. It can be quite daunting if you're new to leftism and want to get involved but don't actually know anyone from groups in your area, I think at that point people might come to this forum as if you remove the personal factor, it's possibly more approachable. Obviously we foster a radical atmosphere here and people can hopefully use that as a springboard for getting active in real life, realising that they're not a minority of one. I'd like to think that most of the members who've been around here a while are at least semi active.

If we want to attract people to radical leftism, I think it's important that you strike that personal connection. People are usually happier to engage you in semi open minded and respectful discussion if you're talking to them one on one than say over Yahoo! answers.