Racial Pride is Idiotic

[Havet]

Posted this (http://www.***************/forum/showthread.php?t=633927) on Stormfront:


The whole point why racism is retarded is because it ignores individual behavior and merit in favor of a crass generalistic caricature. Judging people on their individual basis (i.e. whether they are an asshole or not) is the exact opposite of racism.

If someone is "born" an unscrupulous murder, is it wrong to judge them for it? Of course not. As far as understanding of consciousness goes, people have a choice to murder or not, so much as anyone has a choice to choose anything, so its perfectly rational to judge people on their actions, even if those actions are genetically rooted.

Not to mention Hasty Generalizations (Just because a person of X color is bad doesn't mean ALL persons of X color are bad).

Saying someone is proud of being white is the same as saying one is proud of having a predisposition to colon cancer, for example. It's the same thing. You don't get to choose it. And people with a certain skin color aren't inherently bad. It's our actions that determine us, not conditions of birth which we had no choice upon.

Here's the best selection so far (7 pages and counting):


Actually, race is not random. I'm White because a White man and a White woman decided to further the White race by having a child; it was not a random birth. Aliens don't zap random raced babies inside the wombs of women.


They really do act like a woman becomes pregnant and then a random raced baby pops out 9 months later.


Are you not proud of your family name and bloodline? What about being an American? These are things people are born with, yet take great care to defend. If you eliminate race as a pillar of your identity, you may as well throw away everything else that makes you unique.


Lack of pride from public school indoctrination is reflected on national test scores where the USA keeps falling in relation to the rest of the world where they are taught to have pride in their people and their nation.


Why do we need to have chosen something in order to be proud of it? We're all proud of things we didn't choose or that we weren't personally reponsible for.

Honestly, I don't care for your cult of individualism. It's anti-social, it's anti-human, and even you take pride in things that you didn't choose, so why shouldn't whites?


How is racial pride illogical? Why should one be proud of their personal achievements? Your remarks are too vague to be taken seriously.



I don't hate black people, but fact is I am far more likely to be robbed at gunpoint or shot to death by a black person so I just stay away from them altogether.

That's not being unfair, that's being smart. Racism saves lives in this messed up world we live in. Nothing is fair.


Leonardo da Vinci's mother was quite possibly a Russian Jewess which by orthodox Jewish law would make Leonardo a Jew. As for Tesla, he was the son of a Serbian couple, and as anyone should know Serbs are a Slavic people.


WTF??


The mainstream media is known for covering up black crime and that's why independent news sites like NewNationNews (http://www.newnation.cc/forums/index.php) exists and dedicates itself to bringing the masses black crime reports that the mainstream media won't cover.


What I am was not accidental either, why do you keep repeating that? White people exist because both parents of said person were white, nothing about it was random or an accident. Everything you've said has already been seen by eyes here over one thousand times before. You aren't changing anything.

enjoy the idiocy

[danyboy27]

in other news today scientifics showed evidence that we need air to survive.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm surprised you were even allowed to post that in the first place. Don't they heavily moderate posts from "antis" over there?

[Havet]

I'm surprised you were even allowed to post that in the first place. Don't they heavily moderate posts from "antis" over there?

Dunno, so far they have allowed me. It usually takes from 1-3 days to my posts to be accepted, or they go instantly (depending on their mood).

[Raúl Duke]

I agree, they're idiots.


Leonardo da Vinci's mother was quite possibly a Russian Jewess which by orthodox Jewish law would make Leonardo a Jew. As for Tesla, he was the son of a Serbian couple, and as anyone should know Serbs are a Slavic people.

:confused: and this entails...what?

That being said...


Lack of pride from public school indoctrination is reflected on national test scores where the USA keeps falling in relation to the rest of the world where they are taught to have pride in their people and their nation.

ehh wut? Any studies to back that up?

In other news, WNs are as dumb as ever (not surprising). In fact, not sure if he's in that position to talk about "falling SAT/ACT scores"; he probably contributed to that.

[RedAnarchist]

I posted there for a week or so a few months ago, amassing about 50 posts in their Opposing Views subforum. I got banned for no obvious reason, but I think it was because I caught one of the SF'ers using disproven facts in their argument (They even made up a congressman from the US). I was polite when I posted and even got rep points from some of the more saner SF'ers for this.

From what I saw when I posted there, they tend to twist your words and make you look like the bad guy. If they can't beat you in a discussion, they will bring up one of their conspiracy theories or use some outdated idea to show that white people are somehow superior. They also tend to post almost any news article where someone from an ethnic minority has either been arrested, jailed or done something anti-social and then they act as if this one person is representative of millions of people.

There seems to be a few distinct groups of SF'ers from what I saw -

White "Nationalists" - These people claim not to hate any other ethnic group, and want what they consider to be best for white people - a white-only community. Probably the least dangerous ones, but still full of hate and they still deny the Holocaust and believe in conspiracy theories.

White "Supremacists" - These people are the ones who think all people who aren't white are inferior. They tend to be either middle-aged or quite young, and do not seem at all intelligent. These are the SF'ers who are too far gone and will probably never be able to progress in any way. To use a rather classist stereotype, these people are your typical rednecks, and proud of it.

Fake Antis - These are unregistered people who post stuff in the OV section that makes the SF'ers look intelligent by comparison. Most likely either overzealous liberals, or SF'ers.

Antis - The voices of reason, who are heavily moderated. They are massively outnumbered on SF, and usually give up after a short period of time.

Overall, SF'ers seem very miserable. They seem to be depressed at the state of the world, and blame everything on the Jewish, ethnic minorities or the government. These people have a narrow world view that is very different to that held by most white people, and it is very hard to understand their viewpoint.

[danyboy27]

anyway its so ridiculous, you cant judge people by their racial traits, its just so dumb.

social factors on the other hand show more credible evidences about a person.

statisticly i am pretty sure a withe person have more odds to be born in a well off country and have more decents conditions than a black man.

exploitation made it that way, it ghave nothing to do with races at all.

[RedAnarchist]

Dunno, so far they have allowed me. It usually takes from 1-3 days to my posts to be accepted, or they go instantly (depending on their mood).

If they see anything they can immediately jump on and shout "YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE!", they'll approve it almost instantly. Anything else will take a while longer.

[OneNamedNameLess]

I'm surprised you were even allowed to post that in the first place. Don't they heavily moderate posts from "antis" over there?

Is Stormfront more progressive than us? :scared: Just joking :D

I think you argued your points pretty well. With most of them you are just wasting your time though. There are some intelligent users on Strormfront but there are many who post absurd statements like the one in my sig .

[Zolken]

If they see anything they can immediately jump on and shout "YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE!", they'll approve it almost instantly. Anything else will take a while longer.

In all likelihood Black and his cronies create 'dummy' accounts by which they flood their own site with 'supposedly' anti posts as means to stir controversy and thus attract new members as well as potentially turning existing members into lucrative 'sustaining members'.

At an earlier time those of Revleft and those of Stormfront would have met on the streets, whereas now all such ideological warfare must be staged online. This then is our call is it not, to become todays vanguard of revolutionary activism by carrying the battle onto our enemies site ... it's called Stormfront, I say we make it the front.

[Demogorgon]

Why bother reasoning them? You might as well give a dog a formally constructed argument as to why it should not lick its balls in public.

[ls]

I've got to say, you pretty much cornered them from the start hayenmill.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

At an earlier time those of Revleft and those of Stormfront would have met on the streets, whereas now all such ideological warfare must be staged online. This then is our call is it not, to become todays vanguard of revolutionary activism by carrying the battle onto our enemies site ... it's called Stormfront, I say we make it the front.
If you want to debate Nazis online that's "cool" ...I guess, but it's not any sort of "battleground for revolutionary activism." They can just ban you when they get fed up with your posts anyways.

We still need to be meeting them on the streets.

[RGacky3]

Why waste time debating idiots, your not going to get very far.


We still need to be meeting them on the streets.

Why? In most places they are insignificant, they don't have power, we need to be meeting the actual dangerous people, the people in power. Not retarded nobodies yelling rediculous garbage.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Why waste time debating idiots, your not going to get very far.



Why? In most places they are insignificant, they don't have power, we need to be meeting the actual dangerous people, the people in power. Not retarded nobodies yelling rediculous garbage.

What about the BNP in Britain? Also, Nazis in public influence what is considered acceptable speech and political positions. Here's an example: Nazis in the US have begun holding rallies against "illegal immigration." One of these Nazis went to the city council in the city I live in with a petition to bring in federal agents to increase the deportations. The mayor and city council refused to sign or even listen to him much because he was already outed by antifascists as a Nazi whose organization supports deporting all non-whites.

[JimmyJazz]

Why bother reasoning them? You might as well give a dog a formally constructed argument as to why it should not lick its balls in public.

Considering that these people merely make explicit the chauvinism which all people are at times tempted to, I'd say that's a bit of an extreme position. Arguments against every kind of chauvinism need to be a big part of the overall socialist argument.

[Demogorgon]

Considering that these people merely make explicit the chauvinism which all people are at times tempted to, I'd say that's a bit of an extreme position. Arguments against every kind of chauvinism need to be a big part of the overall socialist argument.
We need to argue against prejudice, totally. But there is no point in doing it with Stormfronters. They explicitly shut down their critical reasoning with regards to race and other areas of prejudice so as to protect their views. They won't respond t any argument, if utterly cornered in an argument, they will simply ignore what has been said to them, putting it out of their mind. In many cases racism is an emotional crutch for them, making up for real problems they have. They aren't going to give it up simply because someone has outsmarted them.

[Havet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayenMill http://www.***************/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.***************/forum/showthread.php?p=7285734#post7285734)
I'm not proud of my family or my family name because I could never be proud of something that was not the result of my merit or actions. They happened without my intervention. Just like WWII. I can be happy, but happiness and pride are different things.




This is excellent

Now even this liberal has an excuse that he does not have to be blamed for slavery...

He never had anything to do with it...


In any event


hasty generalisations come about because of conscious contact. As in people are always trying to catagorise one another.

Generalisations are based on observation.

There is nothing hasty about them.

Having lived in Africa for 40 years I believe myself quite capable of making generalisations about Africans, which is why I

1. Do not employ them because GENERAL observation taught me they seal

2. Do not drive through their areas because EXPERIENCE and GENERAL observation has taught me they will kill me

3. DO cross the street when they are walking towards me because GENRAL observation has taught me that they are likely as not to greet me or kill me, rob me and rape my daughters

There is nothing hasty about this kind of generalisation. It is born of 40 years of observation and learning.

Yes it is not scientific, but it is observational. And several white people worldwide have EXACTLY the same experience.


And in any event the word "strawman" has in and of itself become yet another little leaf of stupidity that your ilk tries to use to silence debate. If I see that in a post I simply ignore the rest of what the person says because what you are really saying is "no matter how good your argument I will not try to understand or believe it"

So what if the colour of our skin came about because of a genetic accident thousands of years ago. The fact is that genetic accident gave birth to all the good things in humanity as we know it and that is no accident. It is no accident that those things came about because of WHITE people.

The thing you cannot argue with is that all the things that make our lives what they are today, including the computer you are typing on and the internet where this forum is hosted is the invention of people who are / were white born.

Not by accident but because their parents were white, carried the correct genes to ensure the birth of a white baby who was surprisingly born as a white baby and grew up to be a white man.

Accident?

There is no accident.

Unless we're talking about the evolution and the genetics that made us what we are as a race today....

[Muzk]

Why bother reasoning them? You might as well give a dog a formally constructed argument as to why it should not lick its balls in public.



Win


Anyways, some nazis seem to call me a bolshevik bastard. Others say 'how can u be comi u saw wut comi do to u countri?? rape ur woman ur mom ur bastard!!"

[Havet]

We need to argue against prejudice, totally. But there is no point in doing it with Stormfronters. They explicitly shut down their critical reasoning with regards to race and other areas of prejudice so as to protect their views. They won't respond t any argument, if utterly cornered in an argument, they will simply ignore what has been said to them, putting it out of their mind. In many cases racism is an emotional crutch for them, making up for real problems they have. They aren't going to give it up simply because someone has outsmarted them.

Interesting. Personally, my coming to stormfront was purely academic: learn how douchebags can completely ignore logic and masturbate one another in their hideous ideas.

I also think, though, that one should not initiate aggression against them. HOWEVER, i think one should study, practice and teach self-defense in any case they try to attack, especially "minorities" (i placed the " " because they believe they are the minority...) and other white people who are strongly anti-fascist, anti-racist, or anti-racial pride and very active. Someone should start a thread about self-defense in DIY and Mutual Aid.

[Comrade B]

Christ, Nazis never cease to make me laugh, we will lose a lot of funny idiotic remarks when they are all gone and buried.


Leonardo da Vinci's mother was quite possibly a Russian Jewess which by orthodox Jewish law would make Leonardo a Jew. As for Tesla, he was the son of a Serbian couple, and as anyone should know Serbs are a Slavic people.
doesn't that say that race doesn't determine a damn thing about a person?

[Havet]

Christ, Nazis never cease to make me laugh, we will lose a lot of funny idiotic remarks when they are all gone and buried.


doesn't that say that race doesn't determine a damn thing about a person?

Yes, although he was using it to argue that the scientific discoveries are somehow inherently inferior because they (davinci and tesla) werent "pure race"............:(






:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Dimentio]

Interesting. Personally, my coming to stormfront was purely academic: learn how douchebags can completely ignore logic and masturbate one another in their hideous ideas.

I also think, though, that one should not initiate aggression against them. HOWEVER, i think one should study, practice and teach self-defense in any case they try to attack, especially "minorities" (i placed the " " because they believe they are the minority...) and other white people who are strongly anti-fascist, anti-racist, or anti-racial pride and very active. Someone should start a thread about self-defense in DIY and Mutual Aid.

With all respect, nazis are a minority everywhere except probably in some really messed up eastern European towns. So they're halfright ^^

Fun thread btw. ^^

[RGacky3]

What about the BNP in Britain? Also, Nazis in public influence what is considered acceptable speech and political positions. Here's an example: Nazis in the US have begun holding rallies against "illegal immigration." One of these Nazis went to the city council in the city I live in with a petition to bring in federal agents to increase the deportations. The mayor and city council refused to sign or even listen to him much because he was already outed by antifascists as a Nazi whose organization supports deporting all non-whites.

The BNP in Britain do not hold any real power.

ANY political position or speach is acceptable, thats the meaning of free speach.

racism should be treated as it is, as idiotic, rediculous and a baseless position. As long as racists are just saying it and believing it, in my opinion they should just be ignored and/or mocked.

What should be fought is violence, discrimination and oppression where ever it is (and whatever the reason).

Nazis are not what they were in the 30s, what we should be worrying about now are the ones with REAL power.

[Demogorgon]

What about the BNP in Britain?
Despite them being the official Revleft Boogeyman, they are actually of less consequence than the fascist parties in a fair few other European countries. Compared to Vlaams Belang or the Front Nationale, they are nothing.

[NecroCommie]

Oh my god! Slavs are not white? I really need to tell this to my local finnish white pride pricks. :laugh: Honestly, how is it possible to so blatantly ignore all traces of logic? Everytime I hear the member amount of stortmfront my faith in humanity diminishes...

[Zolken]

Yes, although he was using it to argue that the scientific discoveries are somehow inherently inferior because they (davinci and tesla) werent "pure race"............:(






:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

The original poster had made reference to da Vinci and Tesla as examples of White genius as it were, while the ideal counter was to point out that these two men are not at all what 19th century Nazism would consider as Aryans thus destroying the claim that race determines genius.

[Zolken]

If you want to debate Nazis online that's "cool" ...I guess, but it's not any sort of "battleground for revolutionary activism." They can just ban you when they get fed up with your posts anyways.



It's impossible to debate Nazis online or anywhere else for that matter in that Nazi refers to a member of the NSDAP of early 20th century Germany. What one witnesses today are a bunch of neo-numbskulls drunk on nostalgia for a time long since past.

Of course you're correct to point out that Stormfront moderators will simply ban you at their own discretion, as well as hold back from the boards any post which they can't afford to have published.


We still need to be meeting them on the streets. One needs to be mindful of what occurred in Greensboro, N.C. in Novemeber of 1979 when a group of Klansmen and neo-Nazis fired upon members of the Communist Workers Party, killing five and wounding nine others .. with most of the violence being caught on film. Whats more, those accused in the killings were acquitted in two separate trials (in 1980 and 1983). In plain language, historically, now as ever the cards are stacked in favor of the enemies of Communism.

[Havet]

ATTENTION! THIS POST INCLUDES AWESOME PWNAGE!

Me: Yeah. By the same logic I dont think its rational to be proud of having ADD, i also think its not rational to be proud of not having ADD. These two scenarios still rely on a basic fundamental error: arbitrary conditions outside of one's choice are no basis for pride. They might be basis for happiness (who wouldnt be happy of not having ADD?), but not of pride.

Response:


Who says pride has to be "rational"?

So he admits that racial pride is irrational! Yay!

[RedAnarchist]

:lol:

Well done, although I get the feeling you'll be banned there soon for showing SF members too much of reality and rationality. I'm surprised that they even let your posts through still. Maybe they're hoping that you'll say something that they can twist around? Just look at the second post after you catch the guy admitting that racial pride is irrational, where another one acts as if one little typo debunks your entire argument.

[Havet]

:lol:

Well done, although I get the feeling you'll be banned there soon for showing SF members too much of reality and rationality. I'm surprised that they even let your posts through still. Maybe they're hoping that you'll say something that they can twist around? Just look at the second post after you catch the guy admitting that racial pride is irrational, where another one acts as if one little typo debunks your entire argument.

Yeah, its really a shame that it takes an arbitrary amount of time for my post to be approved, because I already answered that dickweed half an hour ago xD

[OneNamedNameLess]

Despite them being the official Revleft Boogeyman, they are actually of less consequence than the fascist parties in a fair few other European countries. Compared to Vlaams Belang or the Front Nationale, they are nothing.

Precisely. That is why I would like to see more info on what the far right are doing in Europe and on other continents.

[Misanthrope]

My parents gave birth to further the white man's struggle against the racial minorities! We are the oppressed!!!!!!!!!!!!11 nascar! Yea!!!!!!!!!!!

[RedAnarchist]

My parents gave birth to further the white man's struggle against the racial minorities! We are the oppressed!!!!!!!!!!!!11 nascar! Yea!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, of course they did. You are after all, a white person and therefore perfect and pristine! There's no flaw in your genetic makeup! :p

If we were so different, mixed race people would be either impossible or all born infertile. If we are so different, why is it that the most genetic diversity occurs within populations instead of between populations?

Stormfronters need to wake up and realise that their ideas about humanity are not only outdated, they are highly unscientific and very much incorrect.

[Robert]

The thread needs to be retitled to "Why Stormfronters are Stupid" or something.

If you want to complain that Racial Pride is Idiotic in general, you can identify illegitimate Asian, Hispanic, Black, and White gangs who unite exclusively along racial lines to commit mischief and marginalize their rivals. Much ( I think most) American prison violence occurs between Chicanos (U.S. citizens of Mexican descent) and African Americans.

According to gang experts and law enforcement agents, a longstanding race war between the Mexican Mafia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Mafia) and the Black Guerilla family, a rival African American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American) prison gang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_gang), has generated such intense racial hatred among Mexican Mafia leaders, or shot callers, that they have issued a "green light" on all blacks. This amounts to a standing authorization for Latino gang members to prove their mettle by terrorizing or even murdering any blacks sighted in a neighborhood claimed by a gang loyal to the Mexican Mafia.[3] (http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/stateof/hutchinson105)California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California) prisons where Mexican American inmates and African Americans have targeted each other particularly, based on racial reasons[.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_States

There are also some benign if obnoxiously-titled organizations that assemble along racial lines, including the German-American Business Association, the
Nation of Islam, and the Alaska Chinese Association. There are THOUSANDS of these kinds of groups. Look at the California groups alone: http://www.awib.org/content_frames/directory/asian/

I know, I know, they aren't Nazis. But they do organize on racial lines to help each other for no particular reason other than their shared skin color and national origin.

May I recommend that everyone write "none of your business," or "indeterminate," when any standard form asks that you self-identify by race.

[destr0000000000yer]

well what to say, its still stupid

you are right :)

[Raisa]

There is no such thing as races though.
I learned this when I studied cosmotology mainly, and I saw that there are only really two hair colors....Eumelanin, and Phenomelanin...and a negative gene that is nothing. like 0 in the number .001 holding a place. Albinos have that nothing gene, and people with black hair have just eumelanin, and red heads have phenomelanin....and everyone inbetween is different combinations of the three. Blondes have no melanin just a real little bit of phenomelanin or theyd have completely white hair.

I believe it is the same with skin too. Theres no races, just more or less melanin.

[Havet]

There is no such thing as races though.
I learned this when I studied cosmotology mainly, and I saw that there are only really two hair colors....Eumelanin, and Phenomelanin...and a negative gene that is nothing. like 0 in the number .001 holding a place. Albinos have that nothing gene, and people with black hair have just eumelanin, and red heads have phenomelanin....and everyone inbetween is different combinations of the three. Blondes have no melanin just a real little bit of phenomelanin or theyd have completely white hair.

I believe it is the same with skin too. Theres no races, just more or less melanin.

Well they (SFers) bring up the fact that different race people have different skull configuration, different facial configurations, etc. The main point is that the conclusion they are trying to make from these differences does not follow the premise.

[Havet]

"Logic and reasoning is subjective, like truth"

...

:(:(:crying:

[Collectivism]

I disagree. Brown Pride is acceptable for propaganda purposes because it is a way of blacks and mestizos rebelling against white oppression. Of course white pride is stupid because they have no reason to be proud.

Scientifically, race does not exist. No scientist actually says race exists. Genetics is bullshit anti-marxist propaganda.

[Havet]

I disagree. Brown Pride is acceptable for propaganda purposes because it is a way of blacks and mestizos rebelling against white oppression. Of course white pride is stupid because they have no reason to be proud.

Scientifically, race does not exist. No scientist actually says race exists. Genetics is bullshit anti-marxist propaganda.

Glad you got banned, you saved me time from arguing.

I'd like to ask a question to you all. Does the following count as a logical fallacy? I've tried to look it around, but its neither the affirming the consequent or denying the antecedent fallacies.

"1) If you are proud of being white race, then you are proud of things you have no choice upon.

2)Having a genetic predisposition to a certain disease is something one has no choice upon

3) Therefore, you are proud of having a genetic predisposition to a certain disease."

[Durruti's Ghost]

Yes, it is indeed a logical fallacy. Statement 1, while true, does not imply that the subject is proud of ALL things about which he/she has no choice, just SOME things. It would, however, be accurate to say that being proud of having a genetic predisposition to a certain disease is analogous to being proud of being of a particular race.

[Havet]

Yes, it is indeed a logical fallacy. Statement 1, while true, does not imply that the subject is proud of ALL things about which he/she has no choice, just SOME things. It would, however, be accurate to say that being proud of having a genetic predisposition to a certain disease is analogous to being proud of being of a particular race.

Thanks a bunch

[George W]

is it OK to be a racist on this site, or is this site incompatible with racial pride? what about gay pride?

[anti-N.I.C.E.]

Yes, it is indeed a logical fallacy. Statement 1, while true, does not imply that the subject is proud of ALL things about which he/she has no choice, just SOME things. It would, however, be accurate to say that being proud of having a genetic predisposition to a certain disease is analogous to being proud of being of a particular race.
Would it, though?

Race obviously makes up more of one's being than a genetic predisposition to lung cancer (or whatever) and a predisposition to disease is obviously negative while race is probably neutral in value.

There are a lot of differences between the two.

(I don't believe in racial "pride", perhaps "ethnic pride" to some degree).

[George W]

Would it, though?

Race obviously makes up more of one's being than a genetic predisposition to lung cancer (or whatever) and a predisposition to disease is obviously negative while race is probably neutral in value.

There are a lot of differences between the two.

(I don't believe in racial "pride", perhaps "ethnic pride" to some degree).
what is your opinion on homosexuality?

[anti-N.I.C.E.]

what is your opinion on homosexuality?
Okay?

I believe it to be improper sexual conduct similar (in fact the same as) fornication or adultery.

[George W]

you are british, no? what's wrong with ethnic, racial pride? do you want to see all racial differences dissolve and the world become mud coloured?

[anti-N.I.C.E.]

you are british, no? what's wrong with ethnic, racial pride? do you want to see all racial differences dissolve and the world become mud coloured?
No, I wouldn't particularly like to see that.

Ethnic "pride" is preferable to racial pride because it is more particular, relevant and obvious.

[Havet]

is it OK to be a racist on this site, or is this site incompatible with racial pride? what about gay pride?

Why should one be proud of their own race, which they had no choice upon?

[Havet]

Okay?

I believe it to be improper sexual conduct similar (in fact the same as) fornication or adultery.

Why is it improper?

[George W]

without ethnic/racial pride and vigilance, whites, who are only 9% of the world's population, will be all but gone by the turn of the century. our ancestral homelands, such as the british isles, will be overrun with non-whites. likely none of your great great grandchildren will be white.

[anti-N.I.C.E.]

Why is it improper?
Because the only proper sexual conduct is within marriage.

[George W]

being proud of your race helps ensure your race will not vanish. (edit: addressed to hayenmill)

[Havet]

without ethnic/racial pride and vigilance, whites, who are only 9% of the world's population, will be all but gone by the turn of the century. our ancestral homelands, such as the british isles, will be overrun with non-whites. likely none of your great great grandchildren will be white.

Proof 9% of the population is white?

Why does this matter? What does it matter of only 9% of the world have the lowest amounts of melanin in their skin?

How is any race inherently better than other to justify its preservation?

[Havet]

Because the only proper sexual conduct is within marriage.


Why is it only proper to engage in sexual activity in a (i assume) religious and state-sanctioned relationship?

[anti-N.I.C.E.]

without ethnic/racial pride and vigilance, whites, who are only 9% of the world's population, will be all but gone by the turn of the century. our ancestral homelands, such as the british isles, will be overrun with non-whites. likely none of your great great grandchildren will be white.
Race actually has little to do with the colour of one's skin as the skin colour of a group can change rapidly (in evolutionary terms) because of the environment unlike other features.

Many Morrocans (I think), for example, are of Nordic race but as they have lived in Northern Africa for a long time, they have darker skin than a Swede would.

[George W]

Proof 9% of the population is white?

Why does this matter? What does it matter of only 9% of the world have the lowest amounts of melanin in their skin?

How is any race inherently better than other to justify its preservation?
well, "white" is not perfectly defined, so best to say roughly 10% - roughly 600 million europeans and 200 million american (candian, etc..) -europeans.

forget about "better" (whatever that means). being of european descent, I feel it would be a shame if whites were to vanish, and I see a danger of it happening since the folks who have the majority of babies are non-white.

racial differences go beyond skin color, an albino african is not white.

[anti-N.I.C.E.]

Why is it only proper to engage in sexual activity in a (i assume) religious and state-sanctioned relationship?
1. Special divine revelation (i.e. the moral laws of the Bible)
2. Natural theological law

[George W]

Race actually has little to do with the colour of one's skin as the skin colour of a group can change rapidly (in evolutionary terms) because of the environment unlike other features.

Many Morrocans (I think), for example, are of Nordic race but as they have lived in Northern Africa for a long time, they have darker skin than a Swede would.

I agree, I use "white" to describe a group of genetically identifiable individuals whose ancestors lived in europe thousands of years ago.

defining races is notoriously difficult and controversial.

[Havet]

1. Special divine revelation (i.e. the moral laws of the Bible)
2. Natural theological law

1.Do you have any proof that the "divine" exists? If it does, why should you impose its customs on non-believers?

2. Is this natural theological law objectively verifiable? Can it be scientifically or logically/philosophically explained?

[Havet]

http://austrianeconomists.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451eb0069e2011570ea5170970c-800wi

Thanks for the warning. I believe I met anti-N.I.C.E. before in StormFront...

[anti-N.I.C.E.]

1.Do you have any proof that the "divine" exists? If it does, why should you impose its customs on non-believers?

2. Is this natural theological law objectively verifiable? Can it be scientifically or logically/philosophically explained?
1) I'm going to go into whether God exists or not as I don't want to go on a tangeant.

I don't think we should impose any religious customs on non-believers. Where did you get that from?

2) Yes.


Thanks for the warning. I believe I met anti-N.I.C.E. before in StormFront...
I'm not on StormFront or any other similar website but nice try...

[George W]

is it ok to be racist on this board, or should I stick to opposing ideologies?

[Bright Banana Beard]

No, you will be ban for being racist. You must, however, stay within Opposing Ideologies if you are not revolutionist.

[George W]

No, you will be ban for being racist. You must, however, stay within Opposing Ideologies if you are not revolutionist.

what is your opinion on homosexuality?

[George W]

No, you will be ban for being racist. You must, however, stay within Opposing Ideologies if you are not revolutionist.

weird question: would you be automatically closer to someone you are biologically related to (e.g. mother, sister, grandfather, daughter) than you would be to a total stranger, even if you never knew the relation?

[revolution inaction]

you are british, no? what's wrong with ethnic, racial pride? do you want to see all racial differences dissolve and the world become mud coloured?

thats not how genetics works

[George W]

thats not how genetics works
weird question: would you be automatically closer to someone you are biologically related to (e.g. mother, sister, grandfather, daughter) than you would be to a total stranger, even if you never knew the relation?

if so, why?

[revolution inaction]

weird question: would you be automatically closer to someone you are biologically related to (e.g. mother, sister, grandfather, daughter) than you would be to a total stranger, even if you never knew the relation?

if so, why?

i don't see any reason why i would, what has this to do with anything?

[Plagueround]

Posting the same question several different times is spamming and trolling. Please stop.

[George W]

i don't see any reason why i would, what has this to do with anything?
trying to gauge how racist you are. generally, those who place some importance on biological connections tend to be more racist.

do you plan on having children?

[George W]

Posting the same question several different times is spamming and trolling. Please stop.
are you racist?

[Plagueround]

are you racist?

Nope. Next question.

[George W]

Nope. Next question.
everyone is racist to a certain degree, even if subconsciously. so you are maybe telling me you go out of your way to try and counteract any racist tendencies you might have. like believing blacks are better basketball players than whites.

hey btw is there a realtime option so i don't have to continually refresh?

[Plagueround]

everyone is racist to a certain degree, even if subconsciously. so you are maybe telling me you go out of your way to try and counteract any racist tendencies you might have. like believing blacks are better basketball players than whites.


This is just one of those things people say to make excuses about their own racist behaviors. I don't pay much attention to basketball, got a better example?

To elaborate, my "racial background" is a composite of about 4-5 different ethnicities and cultures. What race am I, and why should anyone get pigeonholed into a race if I myself can't fit neatly into any pegs?

[George W]

This is just one of those things people say to make excuses about their own racist behaviors. I don't pay much attention to basketball, got a better example?
blacks not being as good at advanced math as the other races.

[George W]

To elaborate, my "racial background" is a composite of about 4-5 different ethnicities and cultures. What race am I, and why should anyone get pigeonholed into a race if I myself can't fit neatly into any pegs?
well, hopefully you can form an identity around the composite, it's good to know who you ancestors were to help you know what to look out for in the future.

[Plagueround]

blacks not being as good at math as the other races.

Well, first one would have to discern as to what percentage of "black" qualifies as black. This already complicates the problem to an absurd degree, and you can find some much longer and more in depth posts on that subject on this forum in other places.

Then one would have to accept that something like mathematic ability could be traced to any sort of genetic origin. Then, you would have to completely ignore any and all other demographics they come from, like country of origin, socio-economic status, upbringing and occupation of guardians, not to mention other tiny influences like how much sleep one got that day or whether or not they ate breakfast, what problems are going on in their lives, plus a multitude of other factors I've probably left out.

Once you're done with that you would have to adjust for level of mathematic ability expected, type of test being taken, how accurate a small sampling of the population could reflect an entire ethnic group, and a multitude of other factors I've probably left out.

So if the best conclusion one could come to after all that, based on standardized tests, is that "blacks" are bad at math, then you're a racist at worst and someone who could probably do some studying of their own at best.

[Havet]

Well, first one would have to discern as to what percentage of "black" qualifies as black. This already complicates the problem to an absurd degree, and you can find some much longer and more in depth posts on that subject on this forum in other places.

Then one would have to accept that something like mathematic ability could be traced to any sort of genetic origin. Then, you would have to completely ignore any and all other demographics they come from, like country of origin, socio-economic status, upbringing and occupation of guardians, not to mention other tiny influences like how much sleep one got that day or whether or not they ate breakfast, what problems are going on in their lives, plus a multitude of other factors I've probably left out.

Once you're done with that you would have to adjust for level of mathematic ability expected, type of test being taken, how accurate a small sampling of the population could reflect an entire ethnic group, and a multitude of other factors I've probably left out.

So if the best conclusion one could come to after all that, based on standardized tests, is that "blacks" are bad at math, then you're a racist at worst and someone who could probably do some studying of their own at best.

Great post. It might be important to mention that once he's done doing that, what possible practical use would he have for that information? So what if blacks (actually there are only three human races: Caucasian, negroid and mongoloid ) are inherently worse at math? Does that mean that they are inherently bad at everything else? he would have to repeat the same precise criteria for all the other aspects of life.

[Plagueround]

well, hopefully you can form an identity around the composite, it's good to know who you ancestors were to help you know what to look out for in the future.

I suppose, if you want to look at it that way, my "identity" is certainly formed around some of the traditions and views of american indian culture as I've grown up on reservations, but I don't feel inclined to rule things out because they don't match up with the values of that culture. I don't think anyone is arguing that people will be inclined to adopt or follow pieces of the cultures they come from. What is quite silly, however, is the proposition that we are tied or drawn to these things because of some inherent genetic predisposition. Likewise with genetic dispositions that run within particular bloodlines such as greater risk of certain diseases...none of these things constitute a race anymore than eye color would.


actually there are only three human races: Caucasian, negroid and mongoloid

lol wat

[George W]

well anyway good luck guys. I love people of all races, but I hope to keep racial diversity alive and well, I don't want to see everyone becoming genetically identical which is the current globalist trend I'm fighting against.

remember there is there is strength in diversity, and unity is not always for the best. just something to think about. peace.

[Plagueround]

well anyway good luck guys. I love people of all races, but I hope to keep racial diversity alive and well, I don't want to see everyone becoming genetically identical which is the current globalist trend I'm fighting against.

remember there is there is strength in diversity, and unity is not always for the best. just something to think about. peace.

If diversity in the gene pool is what you're trying obtain, then the best way to go about that would not be staying within one's (imaginary) race.

[Havet]

lol wat

Those are really the only "genetic races" that exist in humans (not that it matters at al). Everything else, like "black", "white", "jew", "mexican", "european", etc are all social constructs and/or extremely ambiguous definitions.

[Plagueround]

Those are really the only "genetic races" that exist in humans (not that it matters at al). Everything else, like "black", "white", "jew", "mexican", "european", etc are all social constructs and/or extremely ambiguous definitions.

There is only one human race. Those classifications have been discredited and are no longer in use.

[Havet]

There is only one human race. Those classifications have been discredited and are no longer in use.

I am well aware such classifications are practically useless (unless for a racist), but my point is that there are differences between different humans that allows them to be classified under a set of certain common characteristics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_races#Race_as_subspecies

Now most of the characteristics are social constructs, which means they are nothing more than a human concept, but others, like I suggested, have actual scientific evidence behind them.

What I'm saying is we shouldn't ignore the fact that negroids have more melanin on their skin, or other "races" have different characteristics, but we also shouldn't judge them on that.

[Plagueround]

I am well aware such classifications are practically useless (unless for a racist), but my point is that there are differences between different humans that allows them to be classified under a set of certain common characteristics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_races#Race_as_subspecies

Now most of the characteristics are social constructs, which means they are nothing more than a human concept, but others, like I suggested, have actual scientific evidence behind them.

What I'm saying is we shouldn't ignore the fact that negroids have more melanin on their skin, or other "races" have different characteristics, but we also shouldn't judge them on that.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(anthropology)

Typology in anthropology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology) is the division of the human species by races. During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, anthropologists used a typological model to divide people from different ethnic regions into races (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29), (e.g. the Negroid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroid) race, the Caucasoid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasoid_race), the Mongoloid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid_race), the Australoid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race), and the Capoid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoid_race) which was the racial classification system as defined in 1962 by Carleton S. Coon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carleton_S._Coon))[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_%28anthropology%29#cite_note-0). This approach focused on traits that are readily observable from a distance such as head shape, skin color, hair form, body build, and stature.
The typological model was built on the assumption that humans can be assigned to a race based on similar physical traits. However, author Dennis O'Neil says the typological model in anthropology is now thoroughly discredited.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_%28anthropology%29#cite_note-1) Current mainstream thinking is that the morphological traits are due to simple variations in specific regions, and are the effect of climatic selective pressures.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_%28anthropology%29#endnote_palomar) Those who claim typological models are scientific are criticized as anecdotal and unsupported by credible scientific evidence.[3] (http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/113/12/1663) This debate is covered in more detail in the article on race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29).

[Havet]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(anthropology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_%28anthropology))

Typology in anthropology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology) is the division of the human species by races. During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, anthropologists used a typological model to divide people from different ethnic regions into races (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29), (e.g. the Negroid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroid) race, the Caucasoid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasoid_race), the Mongoloid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid_race), the Australoid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race), and the Capoid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoid_race) which was the racial classification system as defined in 1962 by Carleton S. Coon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carleton_S._Coon))[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_%28anthropology%29#cite_note-0). This approach focused on traits that are readily observable from a distance such as head shape, skin color, hair form, body build, and stature.
The typological model was built on the assumption that humans can be assigned to a race based on similar physical traits. However, author Dennis O'Neil says the typological model in anthropology is now thoroughly discredited.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_%28anthropology%29#cite_note-1) Current mainstream thinking is that the morphological traits are due to simple variations in specific regions, and are the effect of climatic selective pressures.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_%28anthropology%29#endnote_palomar) Those who claim typological models are scientific are criticized as anecdotal and unsupported by credible scientific evidence.[3] (http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/113/12/1663) This debate is covered in more detail in the article on race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29).

Oh, that's good to hear then. Thanks for the information.

[George W]

it's difficult to quantify, and simple analyses or models will never be sufficient or satisfactory, but undeniably there are differences between, say, indigenous africans, indigenous europeans, and indigenous chinese. based on skull shape alone you can accurately determine who is who. whether you call these races is just semantics.

clearly the most valuable criteria for determining races are genetic. for example, consider the method for determining genetic populations called STRUCTURE:

"We describe a model-based clustering method for using multilocus genotype data to infer population structure and assign individuals to populations. We assume a model in which there are K populations (where K may be unknown), each of which is characterized by a set of allele frequencies at each locus. Individuals in the sample are assigned (probabilistically) to populations, or jointly to two or more populations if their genotypes indicate that they are admixed. Our model does not assume a particular mutation process, and it can be applied to most of the commonly used genetic markers, provided that they are not closely linked. Applications of our method include demonstrating the presence of population structure, assigning individuals to populations, studying hybrid zones, and identifying migrants and admixed individuals. We show that the method can produce highly accurate assignments using modest numbers of loci—e.g., seven microsatellite loci in an example using genotype data from an endangered bird species."
[from pritch.bsd.uchicago.edu cannot post links yet!]

"Most recently, Wilson et al. [2] studied 354 individuals from 8 populations deriving from Africa (Bantus, Afro-Caribbeans and Ethiopians), Europe/Mideast (Norwegians, Ashkenazi Jews and Armenians), Asia (Chinese) and Pacific Islands (Papua New Guineans). Their study was based on cluster analysis using 39 microsatellite loci. Consistent with previous studies, they obtained evidence of four clusters representing the major continental (racial) divisions described above as African, Caucasian, Asian, and Pacific Islander. The one population in their analysis that was seemingly not clearly classified on continental grounds was the Ethiopians, who clustered more into the Caucasian group. But it is known that African populations with close contact with Middle East populations, including Ethiopians and North Africans, have had significant admixture from Middle Eastern (Caucasian) groups, and are thus more closely related to Caucasians [14]. Furthermore, the analysis by Wilson et al. [2] did not detect subgroups within the four major racial clusters (for example, it did not separate the Norwegians, Ashkenazi Jews and Armenians among the Caucasian cluster), despite known genetic differences among them. The reason is clearly that these differences are not as great as those between races and are insufficient, with the amount of data provided, to distinguish these subgroups."

Neil Risch, Esteban Burchard, Elad Ziv, and Hua Tang
Genome Biology, 2002
[from pubmedcentral.nih.gov]

hmm, can't post images until 25 posts, but if I could you would see when K=3 (which means the STRUCTURE clustered all genetic data into three clusters on a global level), there are 3 large neatly continental structures, basically representing Negroid, Caucasoid, and Mongoloid clusters.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

OK, so we have different shaped skulls. So what?

[Havet]

People have got to be taught what to do. The large masses can not think for themselves. A drug addict, can't obviously think for himself. With propper education, people can be made to understand what is right and what is wrong, what is needed, and what is not. The Leaders of the country are supposed to be working for the people even if the people do not understand what exactly the leader wants to do.

A child can not decide for itself. Parents do it for him. Just becasue a child doesn't want to go to the doctor, that doesn't mean that when the parents take him there, against his will, that they are bad. No, they are good, they know exactly what is best for the child. Even if the child doesn't. The large masses of people can not think for themselves in respect to what the government should do. A small minority of intuitive people who are born leaders are supposed to do that job. Leaders of a country are like parents to the masses of people.

I had not fully understood the political theory of some of the members until now. This is scary stuff.