Vegan?

[progressive_lefty]

Many people on here vegans?
I am considering becoming one. It's something I feel I should do considering my beliefs about everything. I've been putting the preparation in place by decreasing the amount of meat in my diet and increasing salad.
Any suggestions for me?
Or, why did you become a vegan? I think becoming a vegan for me is as much about being healthy as it is for doing it for my own ethics.

[h0m0revolutionary]

Go to your local health food store and try out soya milk, vegan cheese, vegan mayonaise and then go to the supermarket and buy lots of bourbon biscuts, these are essentials. They will make all vegans happy :)

[Pirate Utopian]

Eat normal food. Nobody likes a boring preachy soymuncher.

[red cat]

Many people on here vegans?
I am considering becoming one. It's something I feel I should do considering my beliefs about everything. I've been putting the preparation in place by decreasing the amount of meat in my diet and increasing salad.
Any suggestions for me?
Or, why did you become a vegan? I think becoming a vegan for me is as much about being healthy as it is for doing it for my own ethics.

What is your problem in life?

[An archist]

What is your problem in life?
What's yours?

[red cat]

What's yours?
Umm... I can't bear to see people voluntarily moving towards malnutrition?:D

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Umm... I can't bear to see people voluntarily moving towards malnutrition?:D

You have angered the Plant Murderers. They attack you for over 9000 damage. You die. :laugh:

[An archist]

Umm... I can't bear to see people voluntarily moving towards malnutrition?:D
Pish Pash, eating meat or not has little to do with malnutrition, in fact, many meat-eaters suffer from malnutrition. A lot more then vegetarians or vegans, simply because vegetarians and vegans are more conscious about what they eat.
You do know that right?;)

[Vanguard1917]

Go to your local health food store and try out soya milk, vegan cheese, vegan mayonaise

And if you still wanna be a vegan after that ordeal, here's to you.

Is it true that vegans can't even have butter and honey on toast? Even the most restrictive religious dietary law seems liberal compared to what vegans have to put themselves through.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Being a vegan means you can't eat what I think are the best parts of a fry-up - no bacon, no sausages, no eggs, and no black pudding.

I also love cheese too much to be a vegan.

[Revy]

And if you still wanna be a vegan after that ordeal, here's to you.

Is it true that vegans can't even have butter and honey on toast? Even the most restrictive religious dietary law seems liberal compared to what vegans have to put themselves through.

Ever heard of margarine? It's not hard to find one which doesn't have dairy ingredients.

Honey, I've only had that once in my life, when I was not vegan, and it was fucking gross. Most times honey is added as an ingredient. Some vegans don't care about eating honey because a lot of us don't extend our ethics toward insects.

[Revy]

Being a vegan means you can't eat what I think are the best parts of a fry-up - no bacon, no sausages, no eggs, and no black pudding.

I also love cheese too much to be a vegan.

um, yeah you can. there are vegan alternatives for all the things you listed.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

um, yeah you can. there are vegan alternatives for all the things you listed.

No there isn't. Stuff like Quorn (http://www.quorn.co.uk/) tastes nice, I'll grant you that, especially the sausages. They're rather expensive though, and I like them as an addition rather than a replacement.

Bacon? The stuff I've encountered tastes like bacon the same way banana-flavoured sweets taste like bananas - IE, the substitute's taste is a parody, a caricature if you will, of the taste of the original. Nice, but not bacon.

There can be no vegan substitute for black pudding because black pudding by definition contains blood.

Real meat (unless it's heavily processed) has a texture that is quite unlike anything rendered so far in vegetable or fungal protein. The flavours of the meat substitutes I've been exposed to (my family was vegetarian for a while), while tasty enough, just don't have the same flavour.

[Revy]

few vegans at all eat the Quorn shit. its some fungus grown in a lab. That's not what we eat. We eat soy products, actual protein food from plants. I have only heard bad things about Quorn and its safety. there's a difference between mushrooms, and how they make Quorn.

plus Quorn is not even vegan:


Are Quorn products suitable for a Vegan Diet?No. Since all Quorn products contain a small amount of egg white, and most also contain milk ingredients, they are not suitable for vegans.Why you would want to eat pudding with blood makes no sense to me, but c'est la vie.

All the soy meat alternatives I have eaten taste similar, and good. As a vegan, one gets grossed out by real meat, it begins to look too greasy, and of course you're grossed out by the thought of where it came from.

[bcbm]

Of course you can't even politely ask for information about veganism from vegans on here without the thread being assaulted by the "MEAT IS THE BEST FUCK HIPPIES" crowd. Good work you stupid, worthless assholes.

[progressive_lefty]

Of course you can't even politely ask for information about veganism from vegans on here without the thread being assaulted by the "MEAT IS THE BEST FUCK HIPPIES" crowd. Good work you stupid, worthless assholes.

Thanks for the post, I was going to click on the button but it mustn't be on this part of the website.

Bit disappointed this thread has turned to trash so quickly.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

few vegans at all eat the Quorn shit. its some fungus grown in a lab. That's not what we eat.

What's wrong with eating fungus? And why is it bad if it's grown in a lab? I mean, you eat food from a farm, don't you? They're a lot dirtier any laboratory I've seen.


We eat soy products, actual protein food from plants. I have only heard bad things about Quorn and its safety.

Such as? I've never had any problems whenever I've eaten it.


there's a difference between mushrooms, and how they make Quorn.

You say that like it's a bad thing, yet you've given me no reason at all to believe so.


plus Quorn is not even vegan:

Well that's a shame, I guess. Presumably some alternative binding agent could be used?


Why you would want to eat pudding with blood makes no sense to me, but c'est la vie.

It's called a pudding, but it's actually a thick sausage that's been cut into slices. Weird, I know. As for why? Well, it tastes good. We eat the muscles and organs of animals - why let the blood with all its nutrients go to waste?


All the soy meat alternatives I have eaten taste similar, and good. As a vegan, one gets grossed out by real meat, it begins to look too greasy, and of course you're grossed out by the thought of where it came from.

That's strange, I don't find meat to be "greasy" unless it's actually been cooked with oil - which admittedly is fairly often, since I'm partial to greasy food.

As for the gross-out factor, that doesn't bother me - for work experience I was sent (against my will, I might add) to a slaughterhouse. Let's say I have certain respect for the person working in the gut room, because that person was me at one point.


Of course you can't even politely ask for information about veganism from vegans on here without the thread being assaulted by the "MEAT IS THE BEST FUCK HIPPIES" crowd. Good work you stupid, worthless assholes.

Welcome to Chit-Chat. Because you'd be a damn fool to ask for info/advice in here.

[Il Medico]

You have angered the Plant Murderers. They attack you for over 9000 damage. You die. :laugh:
http://www.geocline.net/miscimages/Over9000_small.jpg

[Black Sheep]

Pish Pash, eating meat or not has little to do with malnutrition, in fact, many meat-eaters suffer from malnutrition. A lot more then vegetarians or vegans, simply because vegetarians and vegans are more conscious about what they eat.
You do know that right?;)
Exactly, so that is the reason for malnutrition.Not eating meat.

Vegeterianism + veganism is based on morals about not slaughtering the cute baby cows for veal.

[NecroCommie]

A picture of the most awesome fictional character ever!
I love you!!! You posted DBZ!!!

[cb9's_unity]

Can someone explain to me the whole not consuming dairy products? I understand the cows are being "exploited" in some way but isn't it true that cows like being milked. I guess I could be wrong but I've heard this from several different places.

[Stand Your Ground]

I'm vegetarian. Here's some good reasons why you should be:

Global meat consumption has increased from under 50 million tons annually to over 200 million tons in the last 50 years. The amount of animal manure produced in the U.S. is 130 times greater than the amount of human waste. This is causing more environmental and health problems than ever seen before. Here are 15 good reasons to stop eating meat (or at least cut down):

Health Reasons:

1. Lower risk of cancer. The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine has reported that vegetarians are less likely to get cancer by 25 to 50 percent.

2. Lower risk of heart disease. Researchers Dr. Dean Ornish and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn have a program that includes a vegetarian diet and is currently one of the few programs that has been proven to reverse heart disease. A vegetarian diet reduces cholesterol.

3. Lower risk of osteoporosis. Studies have shown that too much protein in our diet causes loss of bone calcium. Meat eaters generally get far more protein than they need or can use.

4. Lower risk of kidney and gallstones. The calcium leached from the bones by the body’s efforts to neutralize the acids produce by too much protein

5. Factory farmed animals carry disease. According to the FDA poultry is the number one source of food-borne illness. Despite the heavy use of pesticides and antibiotics, up to 60% percent of chickens sold at the supermarket are infected with live salmonella bacteria. Approximately 30% of all pork products are contaminated with toxoplasmosis. We are increasingly at risk from highly contagious diseases like Mad Cow Disease and Foot and Mouth disease in sheep and cattle.

6. Factory-farmed animals contain toxic chemicals. Meat contains accumulations of pesticides and other chemicals up to 14 times more concentrated than those in plant foods. Half of all antibiotics used in the U.S. are used in farm animals and 90% of those are not used to treat infections but are instead used as growth promoters.


Environmental Reasons:

7. Inefficient use of agriculture. 70% of U.S. grain production is used to feed farm animals. The grains and soybeans fed to animals to produce the amount of meat consumed by the average American in one year could feed seven people for the same period.

8. Inefficient use of water. It takes 2640 gallons of water to produce one pound of edible beef. The water used to raise animals for food is more than half the water used in the United States.

9. Inefficient use of energy. Calories of fossil fuel needed to produce 1 calorie of protein in beef: 28. Calories of fossil fuel needed to produce 1 calorie of protein in soybeans: 2.

10. Environmental Pollution. Raising animals for food is the biggest polluter of our water and topsoil. Factory farm animal waste pollutes the ground and groundwater horribly.

11. Destruction of natural habitat. It takes more land to raise animals for food than it does to produce the equivalent nutritional value by raising edible plants. Rain forests are being destroyed to make room for huge cattle ranches. Coyotes and other animals are poisoned and shot by western cattle ranchers who consider federal land to be their land for grazing.


Animal Rights Reasons:

12. Animals on factory farms are over-crowded. They spend their brief lives in crowded and ammonia-filled conditions, many of them so cramped that they can't even turn around or spread a wing.

13. Animals on factory farms are tortured. Within days of birth, for example, chickens have their beaks seared off with a hot blade. Animals are hung upside down and their throats are sliced open, often while they're fully conscious.

14. Animals on factory farms are treated like machines. They are pumped up with drugs, fed their own waste and forced to grow or produce as fast as possible. They are subjected to 24-hour artificial lighting while being crammed into tiny cages one on top of the other to make it easier to harvest.

15. We don’t need to eat animals! Most of us in the U.S. don’t eat animals because we must in order to survive. We eat them because we want to. We are subjecting animals to torture, damaging the environment unnecessarily and subjecting ourselves to greater risk of disease just to satisfy a desire, not a need.

<http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww355/cottonsocks08/MEAT%20-%20COWS/Vealfactoryfarms.jpg (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vcGhvdG9idWNrZXQuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9mYWN0b3 J5JTIwZmFybXM=)

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww355/cottonsocks08/MEAT-PIGS/pig09.jpg (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vcGhvdG9idWNrZXQuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9mYWN0b3 J5JTIwZmFybXM=)

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x7/paula129/factory%20farming/l_edb1ad3565b24c78920e06aee0d60869.jpg (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vcGhvdG9idWNrZXQuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9mYWN0b3 J5JTIwaGVucw==)

You can get a totally balanced diet without eating meat. All vegetables contain protein and too much protein consumption is unhealthy. Grains, legumes and soybeans contain plenty of protein. Vegetarian foods do not have to be boring. Spice it up! For example, veggies and rice with some Teriyaki sauce is delicious and as filling as any meat dish you can think of while being far more healthy for you and easier on animals and the environment. Why not give a vegetarian diet a try and give our environment a break. Your body will thank you and so will the Earth!

The information above came from the following sources and there is a lot more data available on these web sites:

Public Education Network
Meatstinks.com (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vTWVhdHN0aW5rcy5jb20=)
VegWeb.com (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vVmVnV2ViLmNvbQ==)
PETA
Vegan.com (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vVmVnYW4uY29t)
Why Go Veg?


Consider these facts as well:


* The livestock sector is responsible for 18% of greenhouse gas emissions globally. Cows emit vast amounts of methane, a potent greenhouse gas, into the atmosphere – and the impact of these emissions is greater than that of CO2 from cars.

* Animals raised for food in the U.S. produce 130 times more excrement than the human population.

* Each and every year, factory farms dump 220 billion gallons of hormone-, antibiotic- and bacteria-laden animal waste onto farmland and into waterways.

* Pfiesteria, a microscopic organism that feeds off the phosphorus and nitrogen found in manure, is a lethal toxin harmful to both humans and fish. In 1991 alone, 1,..000,..000,000,000 (one billion) fish were killed by pfiesteria in the Neuse River in North Carolina.

* Since 1995, an additional one billion fish have been killed from manure runoff in estuaries and coastal areas in North Carolina, and the Maryland and Virginia tributaries leading into the Chesapeake Bay.

* Overuse of antibiotics in animals is causing more strains of drug-resistant bacteria, which is affecting the treatment of various life-..threatening diseases in humans.

* Raising animals for food consumes more than half of all the water used in the U.S. It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of meat, but only 25 gallons for a pound of wheat.

* Raising animals for food is the number one cause of deforestation around the world, thanks to the huge amounts of land needed for grazing and growing animal feed.

* Animal feed is grown by intensive farming operations that use massive quantities of pesticides while producing problems such as pesticide resistance in insects and weeds, and pollution of nearby water supplies with toxic chemicals. Those pesticide residues also accumulate in animals’ fatty tissue.

* 20 times more land is required to feed a meat-eater than to feed a vegetarian.

* Overgrazing has turned a fifth of all pastures and ranges into desert.

Source: Earth First

http://earthfirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/crowded-cows.jpg
http://earthfirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/factory-farm-runoff.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/2950338288_7feb2ea422.jpg

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Source: Earth First

There's your problem right there. They value "the Earth" over human beings.

[FreeFocus]

There's your problem right there. They value "the Earth" over human beings.

Human beings are part of the Earth. To try to extract humanity from it and somehow put humanity above it doesn't make you much different from capitalists, who aren't concerned about how many species go extinct, how much the seas and land are polluted, etc. Human interests and nature preservation need not conflict, in fact they meet up quite nicely.

Anyway, good post ARF, although I'm not a vegetarian.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Human beings are part of the Earth. To try to extract humanity from it and somehow put humanity above it doesn't make you much different from capitalists, who aren't concerned about how many species go extinct, how much the seas and land are polluted, etc. Human interests and nature preservation need not conflict, in fact they meet up quite nicely.

Usually, but not always. It's one thing to not shit where you eat, metaphorically speaking, but it's quite another to deny oneself something "for the planet". That's why they're advocating veganism instead of better ways of farming and raising livestock.

[Stand Your Ground]

There's your problem right there. They value "the Earth" over human beings.


Human beings are part of the Earth. To try to extract humanity from it and somehow put humanity above it doesn't make you much different from capitalists, who aren't concerned about how many species go extinct, how much the seas and land are polluted, etc. Human interests and nature preservation need not conflict, in fact they meet up quite nicely.

Anyway, good post ARF, although I'm not a vegetarian.
Humans don't need to eat animals to survive. There's an infinite supply of fruits, vegetables, grains etc. that we can eat just fine. Animals suffer enormous amounts of pain just so we can have meat.

Thanks. Good post from you also.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Humans don't need to eat animals to survive.

That's not an argument. I don't need to drink coffee to survive, but I do. I don't need to smoke tobacco to survive, but I do. The reason I drink coffee and smoke tobacco is not to survive, but because I enjoy doing so.


There's an infinite supply of fruits, vegetables, grains etc. that we can eat just fine.

Agriculture produces a surplus already. People want to eat meat. Therefore, it makes sense to feed the surplus to animals raised for meat, rather than buying the surplus and destroying it or paying farmers to farm less, which is the kind of thing that currently happens.


Animals suffer enormous amounts of pain just so we can have meat.

Animals in the wild suffer enormous amounts of pain in the first place, what with there being no vaccines or antibiotics, no protection from predators (which have no qualms about killing in a slow and/or messy fashion), an unstable supply of food, and nobody to treat them or put them out of their misery if they become ill or injured.

It makes no difference to the animals whether the source of the pain is humans or other animals - but it does make a difference to us, which is why militant veganism has less to do with the animals and more to do with salving their own guilty consciences.

[The Feral Underclass]

That's not an argument. I don't need to drink coffee to survive, but I do. I don't need to smoke tobacco to survive, but I do. The reason I drink coffee and smoke tobacco is not to survive, but because I enjoy doing so.

But you don't need to inflict violence and cruelty onto coffee beans and tobacco in order to consume them.

[Misanthrope]

There's your problem right there. They value "the Earth" over human beings.

Human beings are Earth.

[chimx]

To the op, I've been vegan for about 10 years. I have never had a problem with malnutrition, that I'm aware of at least.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

But you don't need to inflict violence and cruelty onto coffee beans and tobacco in order to consume them.

As I said, it make no difference to the animal, and humans can certainly make raising and slaughter less stressful and painful than a life and death in the wild, although most domesticated animals are unlikely to survive in the wild anyway.


Human beings are Earth.

What a curious statement. I know that humans have a presence in the ecosystem and have an effect on a number of other Earthly processes, but how can humans "be" a 5,973,600,000,000,000,000,000-ton ball of mostly iron?

[Ovi]

Ever heard of margarine?

You pretty much blew up the healthy part.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You pretty much blew up the healthy part.

Don't avoid margerine because it's bad for you - avoid it because it tastes like shit!

[bcbm]

Welcome to Chit-Chat. Because you'd be a damn fool to ask for info/advice in here.

Oh so where should it have been posted? Sciences and environments? Yeah, right... look how any vegetarian related thread there turns out. Its just stupid.


Usually, but not always. It's one thing to not shit where you eat, metaphorically speaking, but it's quite another to deny oneself something "for the planet".

I'm not saying this is the case here but, if such a scenario existed where something consumed uncritically turned out to be very bad for the planet, I don't think it would be unreasonable to argue for denying that "for the planet."

[red cat]

The tendency of human civilization seems to be dissociating itself from the ecosystem more and more. In far future, I think, we will be living in space-ships, chemically synthesizing our food from simple molecules in laboratories. But at present, the first and foremost issue before us is class exploitation, which is inseparable from any mode of food production under capitalism/ feudalism etc. Being a vegan is a personal choice of course, but since these people support their choice with ethics, it seems a bit illogical that people with sensitivity so high that they advocate not using milk from a cow (which would otherwise nourish its calf instead), are not desperately moving in with a gun to help out the people who are forced to feed their children with rice(no milk or vegetables are affordable) not more than once a day. As long as a single from of Bourgeois exploitation exists, this whole thing "veganism" is nothing more than a silly Bourgeois feel-good-issue. Before being a vegan atleast make sure that no one is economically forced into leading a vegan life.

[Patchd]

Many people on here vegans?NO!!!!!


Any suggestions for me?Don't succumb to their hippie powarz!!! No but seriously, if you wanna make vegan tuna, get some chickpeas, vinegar and just mush up the chickpeas with vinegar in it, it tastes pretty realistic and isn't that bad tbh, have it on toast or whatever (h0m0revolutionary makes me them sometimes :o) ... a vegan recipe I know :P ... also, stuffed peppers = win ... and should be the staple vegan diet.

MEAT IS LE AWESOME!

[LeninBalls]

I was a vegetarian until like, 2 days ago. I still want to be one but it was too damaging to me. I was constantly tired and unable to focus, and my joints started to ache recently.

I, however, blame Ireland. :D The fruit and vegetables here are just too not nice to eat in large amounts everyday, so I often just ate noodles rice pasta salad etc instead. When I was in the south of France not long ago, where the fruit and veg is just delicious, my girlfriend´s father (a doctor) gave me a quick check up and said I was in pretty good health, because there I ate tons of lovely fruit and veg. When I came back though, I started to get pale and tired again.

The only good fruit and veg in Ireland are potatoes and red apples.

Even though I think it was Noxion I was givng some veggie dishes to eat some while ago, as tasty as spicy noodles with tofu are, it´s just not enough to keep me fighting. I get flu´s so easily now (have one now in fact, even though I just came back from Morocco).

When I stopped 2 days ago I decided to just jump straight into it again and settle back to normality, so I bought a triple whopper and it was sick! So not tasty, made out of grease and gross to look at!

This is gonna take a while!

[NecroCommie]

I'm not going vegan during the next century. I see no real moral reasons for veganism, as animals kill each other why should we humans treat them specially? I advocate vegetarianism however, not for moral but for economical reasons. That is a motive with which even communists can agree with. And I like animals in general. The fact that there exists no philosophical reasons for not slaughtering them all, I like to be nice. :) Even animals feel. (proven)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Oh so where should it have been posted?

Mutual Aid and DIY seems a good choice. Sports & Health appears to be another one.


Sciences and environments? Yeah, right... look how any vegetarian related thread there turns out. Its just stupid.

Those threads "turn out stupid" (in other words they don't agree with you) because they discuss the merits of vegeterianism and veganism in a general manner.


I'm not saying this is the case here but, if such a scenario existed where something consumed uncritically turned out to be very bad for the planet, I don't think it would be unreasonable to argue for denying that "for the planet."

Or you could try and work out ways of reducing the impact, instead of the reflexive, unthinking reaction of "it's bad, ban it, ban it!"

[the last donut of the night]

http://happyvegetable.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/bunny.jpg


silly vegans! this is chit-chat

[bcbm]

Mutual Aid and DIY seems a good choice. Sports & Health appears to be another one.

Fair 'nuf.


Those threads "turn out stupid" (in other words they don't agree with you) because they discuss the merits of vegeterianism and veganism in a general manner.

Don't agree with me? What position exactly do you think I have in this debate? If you don't know, maybe you shouldn't be working off assumptions. I'm talking about the "I'm gonna go eat three steaks just for you vegans, HA HA HA" sort of shit. I don't have any problem with discussing the merits of veganism in general.


Or you could try and work out ways of reducing the impact, instead of the reflexive, unthinking reaction of "it's bad, ban it, ban it!"

Well, I think some things might merit banning outright because even a "reduced impact" would not be desirable. But this is all hypothetical so it isn't really worth trying to argue over anyway.

[Ovi]

The tendency of human civilization seems to be dissociating itself from the ecosystem more and more. In far future, I think, we will be living in space-ships, chemically synthesizing our food from simple molecules in laboratories.

I hope I'll never get to see that.


But at present, the first and foremost issue before us is class exploitation, which is inseparable from any mode of food production under capitalism/ feudalism etc. Being a vegan is a personal choice of course, but since these people support their choice with ethics, it seems a bit illogical that people with sensitivity so high that they advocate using milk from a cow (which would otherwise nourish its calf instead)
The point of domesticating a cow is to breed one that makes more milk than the calf needs. Otherwise it would starve and we would be left out of cows!

[red cat]

I hope I'll never get to see that.

The point of domesticating a cow is to breed one that makes more milk than the calf needs. Otherwise it would starve and we would be left out of cows!
Oops! Another of my silly mistakes. Corrected it. You will notice that the absence of the "not" placed that part against the mood of the post.:lol: