What percentage of whites WANT diversity

[sandragnash]

In your opinion, based on your observations and experiences, what percentage of white people are actively moving into areas which are majority ethnic minority? (Or actively trying to move into those areas).

[9]

I don't think anyone here, based on personal "observations and experiences" could possibly provide a percentage that carried even a crumb of accuracy, assuming the question made sense to begin with. It does not. Most people don't have the financial luxury of moving simply because they want to. People go where they can find work, and in the vast majority of circumstances, that and that alone is the impetus for moving. Not some desire for "ethnic diversity". Furthermore, its quite a stretch of the imagination to assume that the tiny minority of people with such favorable economic circumstances that they are able to move on a whim merely out of a desire to live in a different social setting will move to an area that isn't a wealthy suburban neighborhood. And considering the fact that most wealthy suburban neighborhoods are predominantly white, a person in the impractical scenario you've provided is likely not going to give all their money to charity and move to a low-income urban area due to the fact that its predominantly black or Hispanic.
To be honest, this is a pretty bizarre thread.

[sandragnash]

Well, we can work it out mathematically, can't we, without needing to ask anybody why they moved to wherever they live now...

In the 1950s, when the first Commonwealth immigrants came over here, 99.9% of the population was white.
So, imagine an all white street in, say, Savile Town. A Pakistani family move into the next house that comes up for sale in 1955.

When the NEXT house comes up for sale in that street, what are the chances of it being bought by an immigrant, and what are the chances of it being bought by a white person?
Well, since 99.9% of the population were white, and allowing for immigrants being poorer than the white population (on average), we can see that there would be at least 100 potential white buyers for every immigrant buyer.

But somehow more and more of the houses in Savile Town were bought by muslims (in this case).

How is that possible, when there would be over 100 times as many potential white buyers of any given house that went up for sale there, as muslim buyers?

Who told you that that "going where they can find work" is "alone" the impetus for people moving? I think the evidence clearly points to something ELSE being the cause, and I'm sure you know what it is...


From the Torygraph (I can't post the link yet - stupid forum)


"Trevor Phillips spoke of a crisis as white minorities bolt from ethnic areas, and warned of the emergence of separate and isolated communities."

From the Times (ditto)

"The judgment ended the intolerable practice of official racial segregation in the US. But it did nothing to end segregation itself. There followed decades of policies aimed at promoting integration, such as the largely failed experiment of “bussing” pupils long distances. Yet countless studies now show that schools, and neighbourhoods, are getting more segregated, not less."

Can you explain why?

Here is my original question - can you answer it based on the above two quotes?

"In your opinion, based on your observations and experiences, what percentage of white people are actively moving into areas which are majority ethnic minority? (Or actively trying to move into those areas)."



assuming the question made sense to begin with. It does not...
...To be honest, this is a pretty bizarre thread.

How can my simple and important question not make sense to begin with?

[sandragnash]

People go where they can find work, and in the vast majority of circumstances, that and that alone is the impetus for moving. Not some desire for "ethnic diversity".

But I thought most of the white population WANT 'diversity' and since, when moving, there are plenty of areas which have a higher proportion of ethnic minorities than the national average, why aren't they moving into those areas?

In other words - how do areas with a higher than the national average proportion of ethnic minorities come into being? Why aren't whites moving into those houses when they come up for sale? Isn't this leading to 'micro states' within the country, where only certain races live?

[9]

Well, we can work it out mathematically, can't we, without needing to ask anybody why they moved to wherever they live now...

In the 1950s, when the first Commonwealth immigrants came over here, 99.9% of the population was white.
So, imagine an all white street in, say, Savile Town. A Pakistani family move into the next house that comes up for sale in 1955.

When the NEXT house comes up for sale in that street, what are the chances of it being bought by an immigrant, and what are the chances of it being bought by a white person?
Well, since 99.9% of the population were white, and allowing for immigrants being poorer than the white population (on average), we can see that there would be at least 100 potential white buyers for every immigrant buyer.

But somehow more and more of the houses in Savile Town were bought by muslims (in this case).

How is that possible, when there would be over 100 times as many potential white buyers of any given house that went up for sale there, as muslim buyers?

First, your math makes absolutely no sense.
Secondly, are you at all familiar with the concept of a ghetto? My family came to the US from the Pale of Settlement in the early-mid 20th century. They moved into the Jewish quarters of South Philadelphia - a Jewish ghetto. In the general area, there were also Italian ghettos and Irish ghettos, and obviously black ghettos. According to your logic, this should be impossible, since the US is predominantly white. But your logic isn't making much sense. Generally, when immigrants come to the US in numbers, they tend to live amongst other immigrants from the same country because of language barriers, cultural barriers, and economic barriers. Why is that difficult to comprehend?


Who told you that that "going where they can find work" is "alone" the impetus for people moving? I think the evidence clearly points to something ELSE being the cause, and I'm sure you know what it is...
Working class people who need to work to survive don't have the luxury to move because "it would be nice". Generally speaking, they move if they get a better job offer, or they stay where they have reliable work. I don't need anyone to "tell me" this; I live it.
And no, I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're attempting to make.



From the Torygraph (I can't post the link yet - stupid forum)


"Trevor Phillips spoke of a crisis as white minorities bolt from ethnic areas, and warned of the emergence of separate and isolated communities."

Haha, what? Where is this from? In the US, there are already "separate and isolated communities" and there have been for well over a century.


From the Times (ditto)

"The judgment ended the intolerable practice of official racial segregation in the US. But it did nothing to end segregation itself. There followed decades of policies aimed at promoting integration, such as the largely failed experiment of “bussing” pupils long distances. Yet countless studies now show that schools, and neighbourhoods, are getting more segregated, not less."

Can you explain why?

Here is my original question - can you answer it based on the above two quotes?

"In your opinion, based on your observations and experiences, what percentage of white people are actively moving into areas which are majority ethnic minority? (Or actively trying to move into those areas)."

This is probably the strangest thread I've seen on this site. I said before that your whole scenario makes no sense. Why would a working person, of any ethnic background, pick up and leave their job and their home and whatever relative financial stability they have, solely to move into an area comprised predominantly of people of a different ethnic background? The scenario is absurd.




How can my simple and important question not make sense to begin with?

Do you want me to tell you my suspicion? My suspicion is that you were attempting to set up an argument, though you've failed due to incoherence, to make a case that "races should stay with their own kind and assimilation is bad". Has your "argument" proven anything? Yes - that you can't make a coherent argument.

[RedAnarchist]

Haha, what? Where is this from? In the US, there are already "separate and isolated communities" and there have been for well over a century.

It's from the UK.

[9]

It's from the UK.

Okay, well rereading it with that in mind, I honestly still can't comprehend what the OP is getting at..
I see you are from the UK, do you understand the points being made? Frankly, I've read it several times, and I'm completely confused. :confused:

[RedAnarchist]

Okay, well rereading it with that in mind, I honestly still can't comprehend what the OP is getting at..
I see you are from the UK, do you understand the points being made? Frankly, I've read it several times, and I'm completely confused. :confused:

I can't understand their points either.

[respectful87]

Some others psoter have made these points but I'll point them out again.

First I don't think anyone wants to move to place just for its diversity. I know when I was in a primarily mexican (and yes mexican not el salvadorian or cuban) nieghborhood its because thats all we could afford. Not to say we didn't like it (or that we did).

Anyone who has the ability to chose were they wish to live most likely isn't going to want to move into a "racially diverse" nieghborhood and not just because of race. Its because the nieghborhoods are often poorer too.

But these are not the only reasons. People often wish to be close to their families and people of similair backrounds. When I hang out with my friends of different races I am often the lone white person. Why is this? People often segregate themselves. Its not because everyone is a racist but rather people like whats familiar. And it is pretty much human nature to prefer whats known and familiar than what is different and unknown. Of course this is the kind of attitude that leads many down a path of ignorance. You will never know what you are missing unless you leave your comfort zone.

[sandragnash]

First, your math makes absolutely no sense.


Really? I thought it did. I thought I explained it very clearly.


Secondly, are you at all familiar with the concept of a ghetto? My family came to the US from the Pale of Settlement in the early-mid 20th century. They moved into the Jewish quarters of South Philadelphia - a Jewish ghetto. In the general area, there were also Italian ghettos and Irish ghettos, and obviously black ghettos. According to your logic, this should be impossible, since the US is predominantly white.


No, according to YOUR logic, this should be impossible, because you no doubt claim that MOST white people want to live around other races. Can you show me any evidence to back up your position?



But your logic isn't making much sense. Generally, when immigrants come to the US in numbers, they tend to live amongst other immigrants from the same country because of language barriers, cultural barriers, and economic barriers. Why is that difficult to comprehend?



HOW do they manage to live among other immigrants?
I've already clearly outlined above exactly what happened in this country - Savile Town, for example.

When a house came up for sale in Savile Town after the very first muslim family moved there, what were the chances of it being sold to a muslim, compared to a white person? White people outnumbered muslims by a thousand to one back then!
So please explain HOW successive houses ended up being bought by muslims (for example, in Savile Town) rather than by whites.
Have you any explanation?
When a house came up for sale, did all the potential white buyers say "I'm not even going to look at that house, because I know that immigrants "tend to live amongst other immigrants from the same country because of language barriers, cultural barriers, and economic barriers."
Obviously not.
So please explain.
Do you even understand what I am talking about?
I am talking about HOW ghettos came into being, and HOW they continue to exist. Have you an explanation for this, or a solution?



Working class people who need to work to survive don't have the luxury to move because "it would be nice". Generally speaking, they move if they get a better job offer, or they stay where they have reliable work. I don't need anyone to "tell me" this; I live it.
And no, I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're attempting to make.


Quite clearly.
Working class people move when they CAN for any number of reasons - and virtually always, they will move into whatever they think is a 'better' area. Obviously nobody is going to move into what THEY think is a 'worse' area.


Haha, what? Where is this from? In the US, there are already "separate and isolated communities" and there have been for well over a century.


Yes, exactly my point!



This is probably the strangest thread I've seen on this site.

Perhaps you should question things a bit more then.




I said before that your whole scenario makes no sense. Why would a working person, of any ethnic background, pick up and leave their job and their home and whatever relative financial stability they have, solely to move into an area comprised predominantly of people of a different ethnic background? The scenario is absurd.


You plainly are unable to grasp the most basic of concepts.
Hundreds of thousands of working class people move house every YEAR in this country, of all ethnicities.
How has it come about that there are now many areas where there is a far higher concentration of ethnic minorities than there are in the general population, UNLESS the vast majority of white people, when they DO move house, deliberately choose to buy in areas where there are mainly other white people?

Do you have any other explanation?




Do you want me to tell you my suspicion? My suspicion is that you were attempting to set up an argument, though you've failed due to incoherence, to make a case that "races should stay with their own kind and assimilation is bad". Has your "argument" proven anything? Yes - that you can't make a coherent argument.

Thank you for that gem of genius...

[sandragnash]

But these are not the only reasons. People often wish to be close to their families and people of similair backrounds.


The ONLY explanation for the formation of 'ghettos' of ethnic minorities, or rather, areas like Savile Town, many parts of Bradford, many parts of inner city London, many parts of Birmingham, etc.etc. is that MOST white people are moving OUT of areas that ethnic minorities move into, and MOST white people (I am talking about more than 95% here, but I'm sure I can come up with a much more accurate figure by doing mathematical analysis of this) deliberately avoid buying houses in areas with even a small number of ethnic minorities.

This was also said in the two news articles I quoted above - I can't post the links yet, but if you google the phrases you can find them and read them from yourselves.




When I hang out with my friends of different races I am often the lone white person. Why is this?


Because most people don't think like you do, and prefer their own people?



People often segregate themselves. Its not because everyone is a racist but rather people like whats familiar.


But apparently that is a 'hate crime' in itself, and certainly anybody who expressed such a desire, would be labelled a 'thought criminal', and lose their job, would they not?





And it is pretty much human nature to prefer whats known and familiar than what is different and unknown. Of course this is the kind of attitude that leads many down a path of ignorance. You will never know what you are missing unless you leave your comfort zone.


Or unless you read the news and find out exactly what those "different and unknown" people are going to bring to your life...

To sum up: I have conclusively proved that the overwhelming majority of white people in this, and every other white country on Earth, are segregating themselves from non-white immigrants, which means that, quite obviously, they do not want to live with them.

So then we get to the REAL issue here: do you all support democracy, the will of the majority, or do you support tyranny, the will of a tiny minority?

And where do you think this country is going to be (the U.K.) in another twenty years' time? A better place? A multicultural paradise? Or in the midst of an awful racial civil war?

[sandragnash]

"Honey, let's move to around John Doe street."
"Why?"
"There is a higher concentration of black people there."

I'm sure you all claim that MOST white people LOVE 'diversity', right?
So why are you making jokes about why white people obviously wouldn't choose to move into an area with a high proportion of non-whites in it?
I thought 'diversity' was 'our strength', and made our lives 'vibrant' and 'rich'. So why aren't white people moving into those areas?

And by the way- this is isn't about whether white people are choosing to move into ONLY areas with a high proportion of ethnic minorities - I am asking you WHY more than 95% of them choose NOT to.

Do any of you have an answer? Or is the truth too much to bear...

[sandragnash]

From the Times article:

"So what went wrong? There are many factors, but the main one is so-called white flight, one of the most pervasive determinants of human geography in the US. During the 1950s and 60s American whites moved from the city centres to the affluent suburbs, leaving black ghettos behind them. The Supreme Court has many powers, but it cannot tell people where to live. Could the same be happening in Britain? You are unlikely to hear the phrase “white flight” pass a politician’s lips, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening."


And this paragraph sums it all up - perhaps you'll accept the truth because it was written in the Times, rather than when I say exactly the same thing:


"London, Birmingham, Blackburn and Leicester all have wards where whites make up less than 20 per cent of the population. In Southall Broadway, West London, just 11.9 per cent of the population is white. It is simply implausible that whites would have become such small minorities if they hadn’t either left the area, or avoided moving there in the first place. There appears to be white flight from London as a whole, with the number of ethnic minorities rising from 1.3 million in 1991 to more than two million in 2001, while the white population actually dropped by 390,000 as record numbers moved out."


Please explain.
I repeat: "It is simply implausible that whites would have become such small minorities if they hadn’t either left the area, or avoided moving there in the first place."

[9]

I'm sure you all claim that MOST white people LOVE 'diversity', right?
So why are you making jokes about why white people obviously wouldn't choose to move into an area with a high proportion of non-whites in it?
I thought 'diversity' was 'our strength', and made our lives 'vibrant' and 'rich'. So why aren't white people moving into those areas?

And by the way- this is isn't about whether white people are choosing to move into ONLY areas with a high proportion of ethnic minorities - I am asking you WHY more than 95% of them choose NOT to.

Do any of you have an answer? Or is the truth too much to bear...

Your whole case is hilarious because of the single misconception that lies at its core: that most within the revolutionary left claim that "MOST white people LOVE diversity", which explains exactly why I found your arguments so incoherent; no one on the revolutionary left believes that! Racism is a HUGE force in capitalist countries, and its prevalence is incontestable. Absolutely, the majority of white people in the US and UK don't want to live near immigrants and ethnic minorities. That speaks to the pervasiveness of racism. Why you are under the illusion that revolutionary leftists believe racism isn't real is certainly a mystery.

[RedAnarchist]

Because most people don't think like you do, and prefer their own people?

Most people in the world live in areas where their "own people" are in the vast majority. it's only in parts of the Americas and Europe that we see any real multiculturalism, hence why it seems that most people prefer their own people. For those who live in such multicultural places, the ones who prefer their own kind are usually immigrants, ignorant of other cultures or racist.


Or unless you read the news and find out exactly what those "different and unknown" people are going to bring to your life... I find that living in a multicultural area is actually a lot better than living in a monocultural area, but that's just my opinion.


To sum up: I have conclusively proved that the overwhelming majority of white people in this, and every other white country on Earth, are segregating themselves from non-white immigrants, which means that, quite obviously, they do not want to live with them.In most "white" countries, the white population is the vast majority (In the UK, it's something like 90% white. Even in the US, it's like 75% white), so most white people live in mostly white areas.


So then we get to the REAL issue here: do you all support democracy, the will of the majority, or do you support tyranny, the will of a tiny minority?We support socialism, which is democratic. I don't see what this has to do with white people and ethnic minorities?


And where do you think this country is going to be (the U.K.) in another twenty years' time? A better place? A multicultural paradise? Or in the midst of an awful racial civil war?The ethnic minority population will be slightly bigger in 20 years time. There will be no "racial civil war", because few people in this country are race obsessed.

[9]

Or in the midst of an awful racial civil war?

Do you, don't you, want me to love you?
I'm comin' down fast, but I'm miles above you.
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer;
You may be a lover, but you ain't no dancer!
HELTER SKELTER!

http://www.daisydocs.com/auction/uploaded/1ef00bb6946ac6bc347a73a3c165c528.jpg

[Reuben]

This is ridiculous. Britain is around 93% non ethnic minority. Thus it stands to reason that only a small minority of areas have minority ethnic majorities. Thus askign whether the majority of white people are trying to move into areas with minoirty ethnic majorities is neither here nor there. It is simply a consequence of probability. It would simply be impossible for the majority of white people to move into the small number of places with ethnic minority majorities.

Like someone else who posted, by family lived in the Jewish east end, and I am convinced that it was predominantly jewish because of the huge number of jews who chose to come in rather than whites leaving in droves.

[sandragnash]

This is ridiculous. Britain is around 93% non ethnic minority. Thus it stands to reason that only a small minority of areas have minority ethnic majorities. Thus askign whether the majority of white people are trying to move into areas with minoirty ethnic majorities is neither here nor there.



You STILL obviously don't understand the central thesis of my argument.
HOW did those areas with 'minority ethnic majorities' come into existence?





It is simply a consequence of probability. It would simply be impossible for the majority of white people to move into the small number of places with ethnic minority majorities.


You don't understand the basics.
The consequence of probability would be that NO areas would have more than the national average of ethnic minorities in them. There would be no Savile Towns, etc. if MOST of the white people chose houses at random, irrespective of the proportion of ethnic minorities in those areas.




Like someone else who posted, by family lived in the Jewish east end, and I am convinced that it was predominantly jewish because of the huge number of jews who chose to come in rather than whites leaving in droves.

So did the Jews who moved in there somehow STOP potential whites from buying houses? Of course not! The whites must have overwhelmingly chosen not to move into the area once the proportion of Jews living there reached a certain percentage.

[RedAnarchist]

You STILL obviously don't understand the central thesis of my argument.
HOW did those areas with 'minority ethnic majorities' come into existence?

People would have gone to live near their relatives, as many cultures are very family-orientated.

[sandragnash]

Your whole case is hilarious because of the single misconception that lies at its core: that most within the revolutionary left claim that "MOST white people LOVE diversity", which explains exactly why I found your arguments so incoherent; no one on the revolutionary left believes that! Racism is a HUGE force in capitalist countries, and its prevalence is incontestable. Absolutely, the majority of white people in the US and UK don't want to live near immigrants and ethnic minorities. That speaks to the pervasiveness of racism. Why you are under the illusion that revolutionary leftists believe racism isn't real is certainly a mystery.

I'm sorry, but I just presumed that you all believed in democracy, and the greatest possible good for the greatest number of people.

So you're openly saying that you KNOW that most of the white population don't want to live near immigrants, but somehow this is all going to pan out and become a multicultural utopia? How can it, when ethnic minorities are, through the actions of white house buyers, ending up 'ghettoised', in their own areas? How can the country continue on like this, with a bigger and bigger population of various ethnic minorities, all ending up living in their own, isolated areas? Blacks living here, muslims living there, Pakistanis avoiding hindus, whites avoiding all of them, etc.etc.

What exactly is the remit behind this 'social experiment' (for want of a better phrase) if you KNOW that most of the white population are never going to accept and mix with the other races?

[respectful87]

The ONLY explanation for the formation of 'ghettos' of ethnic minorities, or rather, areas like Savile Town, many parts of Bradford, many parts of inner city London, many parts of Birmingham, etc.etc. is that MOST white people are moving OUT of areas that ethnic minorities move into, and MOST white people (I am talking about more than 95% here, but I'm sure I can come up with a much more accurate figure by doing mathematical analysis of this) deliberately avoid buying houses in areas with even a small number of ethnic minorities.

This was also said in the two news articles I quoted above - I can't post the links yet, but if you google the phrases you can find them and read them from yourselves.


Because most people don't think like you do, and prefer their own people?


But apparently that is a 'hate crime' in itself, and certainly anybody who expressed such a desire, would be labelled a 'thought criminal', and lose their job, would they not?




Or unless you read the news and find out exactly what those "different and unknown" people are going to bring to your life...

To sum up: I have conclusively proved that the overwhelming majority of white people in this, and every other white country on Earth, are segregating themselves from non-white immigrants, which means that, quite obviously, they do not want to live with them.

So then we get to the REAL issue here: do you all support democracy, the will of the majority, or do you support tyranny, the will of a tiny minority?

And where do you think this country is going to be (the U.K.) in another twenty years' time? A better place? A multicultural paradise? Or in the midst of an awful racial civil war?

I guess the UK is awfully different than the states then. I can only speak for me and my family but we don't give a shit who lives in our community because we pretty much mind our own business. Like when we lived in Houston we were the only white family on our street and we never had any issues with anyone. When we moved away it was to be with our family and not to "leave" minorities. (Of course we did want to attend a school that was more racially balanced and not 97% latino ).

You might be right on that. But isn't that just part of human nature. Its hard for most people to get past their preconcieved notions. I know it took me awhile. But with the right people guiding me I changed my tune. Also lets be honest whites are not the only ones guilty of racism. I know me and several of my black friends faced dicrimination (e.g. Is it true white people have monkey balls? (a guy seriously asked me this) Are all white people gay? Why are white people so wierd and crazy? Why are white people evil. Pinche Gringo. Black people are stupid. Black people are monkeys. Black people can't do math.) I am not a real confrontational guy but when I was there I got into tons of fights. When you are with your own ethnic group you don't deal with that kind of crap. It took me awhile to change my views on people like that and I realized they are just ignorant. I can brush that BS off now.

Also you sound like you are reading way to much into an issue. I could take this even further and say it goes deeper than white but rather cultural preferance: Go to Boston. When I lived there (and I am sure it has not changed) there was an Italian Section, a German, Irish, and a few slavs. These groups did not really mingle with each other. They stuck with their own cultural group even when going to bars they had their "own" that they prefered to go to. I also noticed this with asian communities in Houston: There was a Chinese section along with a Vietnamese and Korean.

Oh and as another poster pointed out your last line sounded like Charles Manson.

But my opinion is don't force anything on anyone. To each his own as long as he harms none.

[RedAnarchist]

Strange how you're ignoring every single one of my posts. Could that be because I'm right and you don't want to admit it?


I'm sorry, but I just presumed that you all believed in democracy, and the greatest possible good for the greatest number of people.

What are you going on about? Did you even read the post?


So you're openly saying that you KNOW that most of the white population don't want to live near immigrants, but somehow this is all going to pan out and become a multicultural utopia? How can it, when ethnic minorities are, through the actions of white house buyers, ending up 'ghettoised', in their own areas? How can the country continue on like this, with a bigger and bigger population of various ethnic minorities, all ending up living in their own, isolated areas? Blacks living here, muslims living there, Pakistanis avoiding hindus, whites avoiding all of them, etc.etc.

Where in that post did they say that they "knew that most of the white population don't want to live near immigrants", because I can't find it anywhere.


What exactly is the remit behind this 'social experiment' (for want of a better phrase) if you KNOW that most of the white population are never going to accept and mix with the other races?

What social experiment? Ethnic minorities came over here to help our economy, not to prove or disprove some theory.

[respectful87]

Do you, don't you, want me to love you?
I'm comin' down fast, but I'm miles above you.
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer;
You may be a lover, but you ain't no dancer!
HELTER SKELTER!



Dude thats some great shit xD :laugh:

darnit I had to take the pic out since I only have 19 posts :(

[ls]

I'm sorry, but I just presumed that you all believed in democracy, and the greatest possible good for the greatest number of people.

We do, except we believe it the world over and not just in some obscure island in the middle of the world. In a socialist world we envisage, migration would be open everywhere.

Apikoros seems to have been right in calling you out as a racial separationist. We believe racial separation is an anti-worker thing to believe in, additionally it's important to note we believe in integrationism (not assimilation) instead of multiculturalism, that means that there are no 'black ghettos' or positive action/discrimination, but that everyone regardless of their features is integrated in their communities and engaged.

Liberal multiculturalism such as under the guise of New Labour does not do this, it seeks to divide workers in subtle ways, on the grounds of perceived colour/creed and whatever else. It seeks to ensure things like positive action are in place to "redress the balance" even though it seeks to maintain the British monopoly on 'those of colour' in ways such as "keeping British culture alive" and "keeping the enemy where we know they are" (preventing true integration of Muslim communities for example, forming the Muslim Council of Britain to perpetuate perceived differences between how British people are treated and how Muslims are).


So you're openly saying that you KNOW that most of the white population don't want to live near immigrants

Actually, she's saying that people like what they know.

History has proven that all people will try new things given the right circumstances, even the most hardened white racists can change their minds and I happen to know this thanks to personal experience.


but somehow this is all going to pan out and become a multicultural utopia?

We believe in integrated socialist territories, not some White dreamworld like you, that is in fact the 'utopia'.


How can it, when ethnic minorities are, through the actions of white house buyers, ending up 'ghettoised', in their own areas? How can the country continue on like this, with a bigger and bigger population of various ethnic minorities, all ending up living in their own, isolated areas? Blacks living here, muslims living there, Pakistanis avoiding hindus, whites avoiding all of them, etc.etc.

By destroying the government.


What exactly is the remit behind this 'social experiment' (for want of a better phrase) if you KNOW that most of the white population are never going to accept and mix with the other races?

But they will given the right circumstances and the right encouragement, the government encourages racial separation like I said, in subtle and important ways and we must smash that. If they don't support that, Capitalism supports utter assimilation of minorities, which we also reject.

[Il Medico]

I can't say I have read all the OP's posts on this thread, I gave up after the second one out of pure confusion. I don't see what exactly he/she is trying to get at with this. I mean really, what is your point? White people in the UK are racist? Big shock there. :rolleyes:

[OneNamedNameLess]

I can't say I have read all the OP's posts on this thread, I gave up after the second one out of pure confusion. I don't see what exactly he/she is trying to get at with this. I mean really, what is your point? White people in the UK are racist? Big shock there. :rolleyes:

We are not all racist. There are many racist whites, blacks, asians and so on in the UK. Not all British blacks, whites and asians are racist.

The reason these areas came into existence is because mass immigration, which was introduced to aid certain sectors of the economy, resulted in minorities being allocated housing in particular areas. Obviously they were not given the best housing and settled in poorer areas. As RedAnarchist said, families moved in close proximity to each other when they came to the UK. I believe this is called chain migration? For instance, many blacks worked for bus companies and were allocated housing in particular districts. Chain migration led to relatives settling in those areas, these people reproduced... you get it?

[sandragnash]

"Ethnologist Maria Bäckman, in her study “Whiteness and gender,” has followed a group of Swedish girls in the suburb of Rinkeby outside Stockholm, where natives have been turned into a minority of the inhabitants due to immigration. The subjects “may encounter prejudices such as the idea that Swedish girls act and dress in a sexually provocative way or that blonde girls are easy.” Bäckman relates that several of the Swedish girls she interviewed stated that they had dyed their hair to avoid sexual harassment. They experienced that being blonde involves old men staring at you, cars honking their horns and boys calling you “whore.”

A report from the organization Save the Children told that Swedish girls are scared of being raped, a possibility that appears very real to them. A survey carried out among ninth-grade boys in the immigrant-dominated suburb of Rinkeby showed that in the last year, 17% of the boys had forced someone to have sex, 31% had hurt someone so badly that the victim required medical care, and 24% had committed burglary or broken into a car. Sensational statistics, but they appear to have been published only in a daily newssheet that is distributed free on the subways."

So - who do you care more about - white WOMEN, who have no all white countries to move to, if they want to get away from third world immigrants, or third world immigrant MEN, who already have their own, HUGE countries to live in?

Is it a points system or something? Do you get a reward for supporting the 'minority group' with the highest score?

[sandragnash]

We are not all racist. There are many racist whites, blacks, asians and so on in the UK. Not all British blacks, whites and asians are racist.

The reason these areas came into existence is because mass immigration, which was introduced to aid certain sectors of the economy, resulted in minorities being allocated housing in particular areas.



"allocated"?
Any evidence?

Obviously millions of immigrants were not "allocated" their houses. Market forces are what caused the formation of 'ghettos'.




Obviously they were not given the best housing and settled in poorer areas. As RedAnarchist said, families moved in close proximity to each other when they came to the UK. I believe this is called chain migration? For instance, many blacks worked for bus companies and were allocated housing in particular districts. Chain migration led to relatives settling in those areas, these people reproduced... you get it?

No, I don't get it - because you are ignoring the fact that when somebody sells a house, THEY don't get to choose who buys it. At least, I doubt that many white sellers would turn down a white buyer, and instead sell to a black buyer, for example.

Somebody above has already clearly stated that my supposition is correct: MOST whites are 'racist' in that they will move house to live in an area that is more white than the one they left, and will NOT move into an area that is more 'non-white' than the one they left.
This overwhelming fact is proved by the existence of concentrations of non-white immigrants in certain areas.

[sandragnash]

I can't say I have read all the OP's posts on this thread, I gave up after the second one out of pure confusion. I don't see what exactly he/she is trying to get at with this. I mean really, what is your point? White people in the UK are racist? Big shock there. :rolleyes:

Yes, that is my point - that the MAJORITY of the white population clearly do not want to live among immigrants.

So back to the real crux of the matter: do you support democracy, or tyranny?

[RedAnarchist]

We are not all racist. There are many racist whites, blacks, asians and so on in the UK. Not all British blacks, whites and asians are racist.

He wasn't saying that, but was saying that white racists in the UK exist.

[sandragnash]

What social experiment? Ethnic minorities came over here to help our economy, not to prove or disprove some theory.

How exactly has "our economy" been helped by mass immigration from the third world?

What result did you expect, exactly?

Tell me this - if we moved all the white people in the U.K. over to Haiti, and all the Haitian people over to the U.K., what would each country be like in one year's time?

I am presuming that you (laughably) claim that all races are the same, right?


Therefore it must be LAND MASSES which afford different races their intelligence, temperament, etc. not their race, right?


Of course, if race IS the cause of intelligence levels, temperament, etc. then bringing in millions of people from failed third world countries to a once successful, safe white country, is going to make that country a WORSE place to live in, for the white people.

Can you show me any evidence to the contrary?

And can you explain why you think that, just because my ancestors made this a better country to live in than Haiti, for example, all of Haiti should be allowed to just come here and TAKE what they obviously couldn't MAKE in their own country?
You're actually saying that if a billion people from the third world want to waltz into any country in Europe, they should be allowed to?
What will be the end result? The whole of Europe will be as poor and hideous as the third world.

So who is then going to provide all the excess wealth which is currently given as aid to Africa, etc? when all of Europe is full of Africans and Indians?

But I forget - it's the LAND MASSES that make people different, so once they have been here for a few minutes, they will all become the same as the Europeans they have driven out...

Have you never heard of the phrase "race to the bottom"?

[RedAnarchist]

"Ethnologist Maria Bäckman, in her study “Whiteness and gender,” has followed a group of Swedish girls in the suburb of Rinkeby outside Stockholm, where natives have been turned into a minority of the inhabitants due to immigration. The subjects “may encounter prejudices such as the idea that Swedish girls act and dress in a sexually provocative way or that blonde girls are easy.” Bäckman relates that several of the Swedish girls she interviewed stated that they had dyed their hair to avoid sexual harassment. They experienced that being blonde involves old men staring at you, cars honking their horns and boys calling you “whore.”

What does that have to do with race or immigration? Many Swedish women are blonde, and there is a stereotype that Swedish women are "easy".


A report from the organization Save the Children told that Swedish girls are scared of being raped, a possibility that appears very real to them. A survey carried out among ninth-grade boys in the immigrant-dominated suburb of Rinkeby showed that in the last year, 17% of the boys had forced someone to have sex, 31% had hurt someone so badly that the victim required medical care, and 24% had committed burglary or broken into a car. Sensational statistics, but they appear to have been published only in a daily newssheet that is distributed free on the subways."

A mixture of a patriarchical culture, patriarchical society, scapegoating immigrants and bullshit.


So - who do you care more about - white WOMEN, who have no all white countries to move to, if they want to get away from third world immigrants, or third world immigrant MEN, who already have their own, HUGE countries to live in?

You make it sound like all immigrant males are huge dangers to white women, like some daft film from 1950's America. I don't know why, but you seem to think all immigrant men are criminals. I assume you don't believe that white male criminals exist, or female criminals?


Is it a points system or something? Do you get a reward for supporting the 'minority group' with the highest score?

Are you a troll? Seriously, because you sound like one.

[RedAnarchist]

Yes, that is my point - that the MAJORITY of the white population clearly do not want to live among immigrants.

So back to the real crux of the matter: do you support democracy, or tyranny?

The majority of white people have no choice, because the ethnic minority population is so small.

What do democracy and tyranny have to to with race and ethnic minorities?

[sandragnash]

We do, except we believe it the world over and not just in some obscure island in the middle of the world. In a socialist world we envisage, migration would be open everywhere.


So what happens when the majority of the world's population, who are not intelligent, not capable of producing a functioning society, end up being the majority in ALL countries? Everything collapses. Have you never worked this out before?





Apikoros seems to have been right in calling you out as a racial separationist. We believe racial separation is an anti-worker thing to believe in, additionally it's important to note we believe in integrationism (not assimilation) instead of multiculturalism, that means that there are no 'black ghettos' or positive action/discrimination, but that everyone regardless of their features is integrated in their communities and engaged.



Are you going to allow everybody a democratic CHOICE in this? Because when white people are given one of the ONLY choices they have - that of which house they want to buy - the overwhelming majority do not want what you are offering them. How do you intend to overcome this problem? Force? Imprisonment for 'buying a house in a too white area'?




We believe in integrated socialist territories, not some White dreamworld like you, that is in fact the 'utopia'.



But YOUR "integrated socialist territories" are the dreamworld, because we can clearly see, in ALL white countries, with MILLIONS of house purchases over the past fifty years, that MOST whites don't want to be 'integrated'.
How do you hope to overcome that?
What do white people stand to gain by moving into an area with a large proportion of ethnic minorities? Can you sell it to them so that they'll buy it?




By destroying the government.


That isn't going to make white people want to live around non-whites. Why on Earth would you think it would?




But they will given the right circumstances and the right encouragement, the government encourages racial separation like I said, in subtle and important ways and we must smash that.


How? The government in NO way "encourages racial separation" !!! What are you on!
If a white person stands up and says "I would much prefer to live in an all white country" at work, they would be sacked from their job - they might even be put in jail for 'inciting hatred'. If a landlord put a sign up ENCOURAGING RACIAL SEPARATION by saying "No blacks, no asians, no Jews", they would be fined or imprisoned.

Come on - are you seriously suggesting that the government is AGAINST integration? The government BENEFITS from it, because it means we no longer have a society. We have a random collection of people from all over the planet, all of whom are losing their cultures, to the culture of consumerism, as it is all that unites them. Maybe you missed that part.




If they don't support that, Capitalism supports utter assimilation of minorities, which we also reject.

I don't understan what you mean, can you elaborate?

Do you support democracy? True democracy? Weekly votes using the Robinson Voting Method?
In short, can you SELL your idea to the majority? Is it going to make MOST people's lives better? (I mean most people in ONE country, not every freeloader on the planet who wants to just walk into a better country and claim to be 'English', 'French' etc. because it gives them a free ride.)

[RedAnarchist]

How exactly has "our economy" been helped by mass immigration from the third world?

Seriously? You don't think we're better off than we were just after WWII?


What result did you expect, exactly?

For what?


Tell me this - if we moved all the white people in the U.K. over to Haiti, and all the Haitian people over to the U.K., what would each country be like in one year's time?

The UK would have an Haitian culture, and Haiti would have a British culture. Most likely most British will be glad to live somewhere sunny and warm for a change.


I am presuming that you (laughably) claim that all races are the same, right?

No such thing as races, but people are different, yes. A Swede and a Nigerian are very different (but you're going to find that the Nigerian can be closer to that Swede than another Swede, due to the fact that Africans are far more genetically diverse than people from other continents).


Therefore it must be LAND MASSES which afford different races their intelligence, temperament, etc. not their race, right?

Racial differences in intelligence and temperament? What is this, the 1950s? Please don't tell me that you honestly believe that billions of people's intelligence and temperament are the same just because they come from the same region or ethnic group?


Of course, if race IS the cause of intelligence levels, temperament, etc. then bringing in millions of people from failed third world countries to a once successful, safe white country, is going to make that country a WORSE place to live in, for the white people.

Then it is obvious that race is not the cause of intelligence levels. After all, the US, UK, France etc are all very successful and the quality of life is very high.


Can you show me any evidence to the contrary?

I don't need to, because it's obvious. I mean, even the NHS proves that I'm right - look at how many Asian and African doctors, nurses and surgeons there are.


And can you explain why you think that, just because my ancestors made this a better country to live in than Haiti, for example, all of Haiti should be allowed to just come here and TAKE what they obviously couldn't MAKE in their own country?

Oh wow, you can name a majority black country with problems. Yet I don't hear you mention majority white countries such as the former Yugoslavia or Chechnya. It's not being a majority white country that helped make Britain a better country.


You're actually saying that if a billion people from the third world want to waltz into any country in Europe, they should be allowed to?
What will be the end result? The whole of Europe will be as poor and hideous as the third world.

The UK isn't. France isn't. Netherlands isn't.


So who is then going to provide all the excess wealth which is currently given as aid to Africa, etc? when all of Europe is full of Africans and Indians?

If white Europeans had not kidnapped millions of young Africans and enslaved them halfway across the world and left Africa alone, then Africa would not be so poor today.


But I forget - it's the LAND MASSES that make people different, so once they have been here for a few minutes, they will all become the same as the Europeans they have driven out...

Noone has driven Europeans out of anywhere in Europe. Now, Europeans driving others out of their land, that's a different story. Look what Europeans did to the Native Americans and Australian Aboriginals.


Have you never heard of the phrase "race to the bottom"?

Asians and Africans are not coming to Europe to make life worse for Europeans, they are coming here to make a better life for thsemlves, which ultimately benefits everyone.

[RedAnarchist]

So what happens when the majority of the world's population, who are not intelligent, not capable of producing a functioning society, end up being the majority in ALL countries? Everything collapses. Have you never worked this out before?

Intelligence is subjective, and to call the majority of the world unintelligent is both wrong and arrogant.

All human populations are capable of producing a functioning society, it's one of the human behaviours. What is society and civilisation to you is not going to be society and civilisation to someone living halfway across the world. Stop being so arrogant and eurocentric for a minute, adn you might be able to understand that.


Are you going to allow everybody a democratic CHOICE in this? Because when white people are given one of the ONLY choices they have - that of which house they want to buy - the overwhelming majority do not want what you are offering them. How do you intend to overcome this problem? Force? Imprisonment for 'buying a house in a too white area'?

Imprisonment for buying a house in a too white area? Most UK homeowners would be behind jail if that idea was law!


But YOUR "integrated socialist territories" are the dreamworld, because we can clearly see, in ALL white countries, with MILLIONS of house purchases over the past fifty years, that MOST whites don't want to be 'integrated'.
How do you hope to overcome that?

Most white people live in a mainly white area. Most white majority countries have a population where whites are in the vast majority. This means that most white people don't have a choice but to live in a mainly white area. Is this not simple enough for you to understand?


What do white people stand to gain by moving into an area with a large proportion of ethnic minorities? Can you sell it to them so that they'll buy it?

Friends, the chance to experience a different culture? Not all white people want the 1930's back, you know. Many white people are accepting of other cultures.


How? The government in NO way "encourages racial separation" !!! What are you on!
If a white person stands up and says "I would much prefer to live in an all white country" at work, they would be sacked from their job - they might even be put in jail for 'inciting hatred'.

Do you have any credible sources for this? By credible, I mean not the Daily Mail or the BNP.


If a landlord put a sign up ENCOURAGING RACIAL SEPARATION by saying "No blacks, no asians, no Jews", they would be fined or imprisoned.

I agree that they shouldn't be imprisoned. Even so, what is wrong with allowing Asian, black or Jewish people to lodge somewhere? Would he/she prefer a "chav" rather than a respectable Asian, black or Jewish person?


Come on - are you seriously suggesting that the government is AGAINST integration? The government BENEFITS from it, because it means we no longer have a society. We have a random collection of people from all over the planet, all of whom are losing their cultures, to the culture of consumerism, as it is all that unites them. Maybe you missed that part.


We do have a society, it's just not the society of the 1930's. How are they losing their cultures? "British culture" has always taken in influences from outside, just like all cultures.



I don't understand what you mean, can you elaborate?

Capitalism wants to supress minority culture, make us all the same. Socialists do not believe in having one grey, monolithic culture - we encourage many different cultures. This is unlike you, who thinks that white cultures are superior and that ethnic minorities do not have any.


Do you support democracy? True democracy? Weekly votes using the Robinson Voting Method?
In short, can you SELL your idea to the majority? Is it going to make MOST people's lives better? (I mean most people in ONE country, not every freeloader on the planet who wants to just walk into a better country and claim to be 'English', 'French' etc. because it gives them a free ride.)

Can you elaborate on what you're sying here, because this makes no sense at all.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Yes, that is my point - that the MAJORITY of the white population clearly do not want to live among immigrants.

So back to the real crux of the matter: do you support democracy, or tyranny?

What about the Islamists in Birmingham who threatened and intimidated Christian's in predominantly Muslim area? Several attacks on churches have occurred throughout the years too. Conversely, mosques and synagogues have been attacked by native whites. Why? Because they are xenophobic on both sides.

A couple of years ago here in Glasgow, some white gangs began to intimidate and attack eastern European migrants. Migrants fought back. There are many Asians in this part of the city which naturally led to Asian gangs emerging. Guess who also attacked and fought the newcomers? You guessed it. This is a more complex matter than you are making out. Minorities who were born in the UK are also concerned about immigration and housing, job loses and so on. They also fall for the far right's propaganda. Another good example of this is the BNP's rising number of Jewish members.

[OneNamedNameLess]

After reading this users more recent posts I don't know what he/she is getting at :confused:

[ls]

So what happens when the majority of the world's population, who are not intelligent, not capable of producing a functioning society, end up being the majority in ALL countries? Everything collapses. Have you never worked this out before?

This is completely weird and confused, do you you even know what you're talking about?


Are you going to allow everybody a democratic CHOICE in this?

Except for those that actively seek to destroy our movement (active members of Fascist groups like the BNP and NF, police officers/security forces working actively working to take us out..)


Because when white people are given one of the ONLY choices they have - that of which house they want to buy - the overwhelming majority do not want what you are offering them.

I'm not 'offering them' anything, I'm just pointing out the inevitability of a socialist revolution in all countries and saying that this is what's going to happen. People do get on with ethnically different people to themselves and it's only government perpetuation and racist groups' advocating of racial separation that destroys this.


How do you intend to overcome this problem? Force? Imprisonment for 'buying a house in a too white area'?

What is this nonsensical paranoid dribble? We're not 'authoritarians'.

A group like the BNP is more likely to try and enact a policy like that - on a local level (because they are never getting into parliament) for ethnic minorities actually.


But YOUR "integrated socialist territories" are the dreamworld, because we can clearly see, in ALL white countries, with MILLIONS of house purchases over the past fifty years, that MOST whites don't want to be 'integrated'.

No attempt to prove this I see. There are so many examples of integration of white people in their communities and your dreamtalk of 'white flight' is bollocks, let's take London "the multicultural hellhole" for example.

What is the percentage of mostly non-white boroughs there? I believe, three. The rest have an extremely overwhelming majority of white people.


How do you hope to overcome that?
What do white people stand to gain by moving into an area with a large proportion of ethnic minorities? Can you sell it to them so that they'll buy it?

You making out that I advocate 'positive action' (ie forcing white people to move out into multicultural areas) is hilarious, dream on. The scenarios you keep inventing are non-existent.


That isn't going to make white people want to live around non-whites. Why on Earth would you think it would?

The fact is this: racial separation doesn't work, it leads to mass slaughter and inequality, just look at India and Pakistan's separation and the bloody murders of Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims!

Look at the attempts of liberal multicultural ethnocentral separation in Northern Ireland between Catholics and Protestants, with the British government trying to make Protestants the landowners and keeping the Catholics down and only in certain areas. Look at how the radical groups like the UVF forced Protestants into non-mixed council estates.

Racial separation doesn't work at all.


How? The government in NO way "encourages racial separation" !!! What are you on!

I just showed you proof it does, the Muslim council of Britain please? No rebuttal of that then? Ok.


If a white person stands up and says "I would much prefer to live in an all white country" at work, they would be sacked from their job - they might even be put in jail for 'inciting hatred'. If a landlord put a sign up ENCOURAGING RACIAL SEPARATION by saying "No blacks, no asians, no Jews", they would be fined or imprisoned.

And they should get shit for doing or saying that yes, it's wrong and so is racial separation.


Come on - are you seriously suggesting that the government is AGAINST integration?

No shit.


The government BENEFITS from it, because it means we no longer have a society.

No, that's liberal multiculturalism you're thinking of, they do not benefit from communities being strong and integrated.


We have a random collection of people from all over the planet, all of whom are losing their cultures, to the culture of consumerism, as it is all that unites them. Maybe you missed that part.

Consumerism is more easy to market under the guise of different cultures. It's pretty obvious, you can go to certain cultural festivals and find it 'culturally themed' and they are meant to be more interesting to people, as opposed to simply bright and generic.

The culture of consumerism is once again something we can thank Capitalism for - and its policy of encouraging multiculturalism. Liberal Multiculturalism's nature of inciting racial separation causes this, it causes weaker communities thus weaker celebrations of everything we care about.


I don't understan what you mean, can you elaborate?

RedAnarchist summarised it extremely well.


Do you support democracy? True democracy? Weekly votes using the Robinson Voting Method?

Votes as often as the communities themselves deem necessary, yep.


In short, can you SELL your idea to the majority? Is it going to make MOST people's lives better? (I mean most people in ONE country, not every freeloader on the planet who wants to just walk into a better country and claim to be 'English', 'French' etc. because it gives them a free ride.)

Yes it is going to make most people's lives better the world over, socialism has worked before and it will work again.

Oh by the way, ethnocentric socialism in one country is what Hitler wanted too.


I am presuming that you (laughably) claim that all races are the same, right?


Therefore it must be LAND MASSES which afford different races their intelligence, temperament, etc. not their race, right?


Of course, if race IS the cause of intelligence levels, temperament, etc. then bringing in millions of people from failed third world countries to a once successful, safe white country, is going to make that country a WORSE place to live in, for the white people.

Can you show me any evidence to the contrary?

And can you explain why you think that, just because my ancestors made this a better country to live in than Haiti, for example, all of Haiti should be allowed to just come here and TAKE what they obviously couldn't MAKE in their own country?
You're actually saying that if a billion people from the third world want to waltz into any country in Europe, they should be allowed to?
What will be the end result? The whole of Europe will be as poor and hideous as the third world.

So who is then going to provide all the excess wealth which is currently given as aid to Africa, etc? when all of Europe is full of Africans and Indians?

But I forget - it's the LAND MASSES that make people different, so once they have been here for a few minutes, they will all become the same as the Europeans they have driven out...

Have you never heard of the phrase "race to the bottom"?

And this is why you were banned. Good riddance.