an alternative to fight against fascism

[danyboy27]

there is a lot of movement from the antifa to intimidate fascist, a lot of those actions are commited in order to protect minorities from them.

I think a better stance toward fascism would be to help those minorities to defend themselves by giving them self defense lessons, judiciary advices and support while trying to integrate them in their communities.

this would certainly make a lot of damages against nazi and the BNP.

what do you think?

[Dr Mindbender]

there is a lot of movement from the antifa to intimidate fascist, a lot of those actions are commited in order to protect minorities from them.

I think a better stance toward fascism would be to help those minorities to defend themselves by giving them self defense lessons, judiciary advices and support while trying to integrate them in their communities.

this would certainly make a lot of damages against nazi and the BNP.

what do you think?

I dont think it will make a difference because unless there is a fundamental improvement to ordinary people's lives on both sides of the indigenous/non indigenous barrier then the fascists will always find ammunition to blame and scapegoat immigrants for the failings of the capitalists.

Infusing people with class consciousness and will be far more destructive to the BNP than giving immigrants karate lessons to fight frustrated white workers with misplaced anger.

[danyboy27]

I dont think it will make a difference because unless there is a fundamental improvement to ordinary people's lives on both sides of the indigenous/non indigenous barrier then the fascists will always find ammunition to blame and scapegoat immigrants for the failings of the capitalists.

Infusing people with class consciousness and will be far more destructive to the BNP than giving immigrants karate lessons to fight frustrated white workers with misplaced anger.

but you gotta admit that this is a far more better alternative than the good old: OMGZ, HE WEAR A LEATHER COAT, HE SHAVED AND WEAR ARMY BOOT, LETS KICK HIS ASS!

[Dr Mindbender]

but you gotta admit that this is a far more better alternative than the good old: OMGZ, HE WEAR A LEATHER COAT, HE SHAVED AND WEAR ARMY BOOT, LETS KICK HIS ASS!

No i don't have to admit anything. Liberal half measures that appease the bourgeioise will do nothing to qwell the spread of fascism, and I don't think anyone in the left much less revleft is arguing that we should think skinheads in leather coats should be attacked purely for aesthetic reasons.

Even the most militant advocates on physical antifascism here have sounder intellectual basis for their activities than that.

[danyboy27]

No i don't have to admit anything. Liberal half measures that appease the bourgeioise will do nothing to qwell the spread of fascism, and I don't think anyone in the left much less revleft is arguing that we should think skinheads in leather coats should be attacked purely for aesthetic reasons.

Even the most militant advocates on physical antifascism here have sounder intellectual basis for their activities than that.

i wonder how class awareness will appease tensions and strike a blow to the nazi?

seriously, i dont think its gonna change much, everyone in my office is aware of their social status, everyone is aware that the rich walk over them all day long, everyone actually aknowledge that we could make stuff work by our own, but guess what? it didnt stop fuck all when it come to xenophobia or racism and they didnt toppled their bosses yet.

now tell me how class awareness alone is supposed to help us?

dont get me wrong, class awareness is cool and all, but i am not quite sure that the problem is there.

from all the buisness i worked at, ALL the worker where aware of their classes, and they never made nothing , fuck all to improve their conditions, no revendications, nothing at all.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

there is a lot of movement from the antifa to intimidate fascist, a lot of those actions are commited in order to protect minorities from them.

I think a better stance toward fascism would be to help those minorities to defend themselves by giving them self defense lessons, judiciary advices and support while trying to integrate them in their communities.

this would certainly make a lot of damages against nazi and the BNP.

what do you think?

I think this could go along side antifa work very nicely , , however the training should be open to anyone black or white as both have an intrest is preventing football hooligan bnp thugs fucking up the community. .

[Dr Mindbender]

i wonder how class awareness will appease tensions and strike a blow to the nazi?
Because if people are [correctly] associating society's ills with affronts to our standard of living made by the ruling class then working class people will stop thinking politically along race lines which is what the nazis and fascists are trying to perpetuate.

If you want to give legal advice and self defence lessons to immigrants then fill your boots but seriously its going to do little if anything to undermine fascist gains.

If anything it will probably only sustain the victimised 'what about us' sentiment that generally comes from right-ist thinking indigenous workers with a paranoid complex about the 'PC lobby' and affirmative action.

[danyboy27]

Because if people are [correctly] associating society's ills with affronts to our standard of living made by the ruling class then working class people will stop thinking politically along race lines which is what the nazis and fascists are trying to perpetuate.

.

well, the thing is, the majority of the racism i have been witness of have nothing to do with the whole they gonna steal our job things, it was all about integration.

the governement dosnt do its share of integrating them. the results are catastrophics, they dosnt understand us, we dont understand them and conflict happen.

nothing is made to make us understand their ways and cultures, and we dont actually try to make them understand our ways neither.

that and the language barrier change everything when it come to integration.

[Pogue]

I don't really think we are patrnoising enough as anti-fascists to feel a need to 'train' ethnic minorities. I think history shows they have been able to defend themselves very well. AFA said that the Asian/Black/ even white youth from the local areas were the ones who dealt best with NF incursions into their community, and the EDL in Birmingham saw what angry Muslim people can do.

That said I think learning self defence in some form is vital and militant anti-fascist organisations would encourage taking this up. For example doing boxing lessons or simply training on a bunch bag to work on your ability to defend yourself physically is never a bad idea in any context given the world we live in today. Alot of anti-fascist groups encourage their members to train themselves to some extent physically so they are fit and can handle themselves in a fight. Its just common sense.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Not a bad idea as a precaution. Hardcore Nazi groups do a lot of combat training. Just look at the ones in Russia for instance. However, spreading our ideas and highlighting the problems caused by capitalism greatly undermines far right conclusions. This in turn is an effective way of inspiring class unity over national unity.

[Rosa Provokateur]

I dont think it will make a difference because unless there is a fundamental improvement to ordinary people's lives on both sides of the indigenous/non indigenous barrier then the fascists will always find ammunition to blame and scapegoat immigrants for the failings of the capitalists.

Infusing people with class consciousness and will be far more destructive to the BNP than giving immigrants karate lessons to fight frustrated white workers with misplaced anger.

Well you convince immigrants that they're part of some-sort of working-class; so what. People targeting immigrants wont care if the target is in the same union, all they see is a non-White face filling a job position that could've gone to a hard working (American, Englishman, fill in the blank).

Fascists arent stupid and I think they're more into class-politics than we give them credit for. Just look at who they recruit and the rhetoric they use about taking back jobs for "their people". The only difference is that they draw lines on color and orientation.

Self-defense, community integration, and dialogue with fascists is a sure-fire model to aim for. Dont inflict violence unless attacked and teach others to fight so they can live with dignity.

[Rosa Provokateur]

I think this could go along side antifa work very nicely , , however the training should be open to anyone black or white as both have an intrest is preventing football hooligan bnp thugs fucking up the community. .

This thing we've got in the States called Pink Pistols sounds pretty similar. It trains those in the glbt community to effectively use fire-arms as a defense against being mugged. I dont use guns and never will but it saved my best-friend's life and I cant apply my pacifism to others.

[Green Dragon]

i wonder how class awareness will appease tensions and strike a blow to the nazi?


It won't. The problem is that the nazi also identifies with "class" as well (as long as the correct racial makeup). It also denounces the "rich" and their supposed exploitation of the working class.

From where does the "nazi" come from, electorally? All indications is that it arises from the Left; that is who loses votes when the nazi gains.

A fire is not smothered by pouring oil upon it. Likewise conceding the arguments that the nazis make will not make them weaker.