How young is too young? [Archive]

Wanted Man

28th August 2009, 19:24

Ahh, the cause célèbre of this year's silly season. I find it hard to bring up sympathy for the spoiled kid, but I am surprised by the zealousness of the state's bureaucrats in attempting to stop her.

By now, the argument used by them is not simply a legalistic reference to the fact that she still has compulsory high school for a few more years, it's a little more sinister. The girl also has a New Zealand passport, so her parents tried to have her removed from her town's population registry (usually a mere formality) and have her "settle" in NZ. But the hard-working local authorities have denied this request "until the court's decision"; a decision that was guaranteed to go against her, but which they could have prevented if they had granted her request.

All because of some moral judgement that is all too typical of our Christian Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChristenUnie) generation... Anyone who goes against the flow in any way needs the wagging finger of the authorities to tell them off...

politics student

29th August 2009, 00:18

Dutch judges are to decide if a 13-year-old can be allowed to sail solo around the world. What do you think?

(Feed provided by BBC News | Have your Say (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/talking_point/default.stm))

Well a few things I felt about this...

1) Why is this a major BBC news story? (Watched it today on BBC 24).
2) I don't care if she can or not, I don't care how prepared she is travelling round the world by sailing solo. I fail to see why she can't just do such an event in a gap year like other students. Even if it was a gap year or 2 between GCSEs and A levels (or whatever the educational set up is)
3) I have no sympathy for the kid, in fact when BBC news stated it was a 2 year trip solo, I was just shocked the parents completely supported her. This of course could be the parents trying to live through their kid which sometimes happens.

Overall I considered the kid to be spoilt, with the story having no news value. I just don't understand why the kid cannot wait a couple of years and just finish her current schooling. That would allow her to take a year or two gap in education.
To be honest I did not consider it news worthy.

gla22

29th August 2009, 03:36

Clearly yuppie parents living through their kid. Kid has been trained to do this pretty much. Idc either way what happens.

LeninKobaMao

29th August 2009, 03:51

As jammoe said:

let the rich twat die

fiddlesticks

30th August 2009, 01:04

I say let her sail. Although I think she should be equipped with a plethora of communication devices because so many things can go wrong.

FreeFocus

30th August 2009, 01:09

It's definitely cool to sail around the world, I'd love to try it. She's probably too young, though, and sailing alone is always dangerous.

JimmyJazz

30th August 2009, 01:10

erm, is she planning on going through Dutch waters? How bizarre that the Dutch government thinks it has a say.

30th August 2009, 01:14

As jammoe said:

Thats tough, for a 13 year old kid....:rolleyes: I mean wtf?Doesnt mean that because her dad/mom have money a kid deserves to die.....I cant understand your logic..
What are we doing here?I cant remember to read anywhere in communism that "all rich die" kids not excluded...

Andrei Kuznetsov

30th August 2009, 02:24

let the rich twat die

Yes, because our parents' class origin TOTALLY determines our own class consciousness and our place in the world... *snorts*

That, and isn't calling a 13 year old girl a "twat" more than a bit misogynistic? Seriously people.

Pirate turtle the 11th

30th August 2009, 02:27

Here I was thinking this was going to be a nonce thread.

respectful87

30th August 2009, 02:28

She should be allowed to do it if she's competent to do it, and it sounds like she is, and if not, let the rich twat die, who the fuck is born on a yacht?

You can't hold what circumstances she was born into against her. She is to young to realise the way the world works. Her parents were/are grooming her to do this (maybe live threw her, or typical yuppies).

I mean comeon, have some compassion. I am not saying have compassion for the bourgeois, no fuck that, I am mearly saying wishing death upon a child is beyond horrible. Blaming her for what her parents have brain washed her to do is like blaming a crazy person for being crazy.

Also note this is coming from a guy who hates most people.

So please explain to me the logic in your comment.

EDIT: Also why is this an important news story?

StalinFanboy

30th August 2009, 02:44

I wish I knew how to sail.

Misanthrope

30th August 2009, 03:17

You can't hold what circumstances she was born into against her. She is to young to realise the way the world works. Her parents were/are grooming her to do this (maybe live threw her, or typical yuppies).

I mean comeon, have some compassion. I am not saying have compassion for the bourgeois, no fuck that, I am mearly saying wishing death upon a child is beyond horrible. Blaming her for what her parents have brain washed her to do is like blaming a crazy person for being crazy.

Also note this is coming from a guy who hates most people.

So please explain to me the logic in your comment.

EDIT: Also why is this an important news story?

It's a sad day when people criticize a young girl for wanting to fly around the world. :rolleyes:

This is an irrelevant issue and if you really have a moral objection to letting this girl do as she wishes... wow.

Have some compassion for a rich girl who has been spoon fed everything in her entire life! :laugh:

Stop being a liberal

The Red Next Door

30th August 2009, 04:01

As jammoe said:
do you have to be so cruel.

The Red Next Door

30th August 2009, 04:09

They should let her do it and how do u know she is a spolied child? the last time i check a spolied little **** wouldn't spend two years on the sea.

ZeroNowhere

30th August 2009, 06:23

Sounds like fun. Let her do it, if she's competent enough (which should apply to anybody who wants to sail around the world, or sail around in general). And if a 17-year old can do it, I'm fairly sure that a 13-year old can do it more easily, seeing as they have more maturity, generally.

And children aren't spoiled unless they're either born in poverty or whipped.

politics student

30th August 2009, 11:32

EDIT: Also why is this an important news story?

Yep my main point... It is not important, it sounds like something the Daily Mail will rant about for a week but a major news story on the BBC :blink:

LeninKobaMao

30th August 2009, 11:42

Thats tough, for a 13 year old kid....:rolleyes: I mean wtf?Doesnt mean that because her dad/mom have money a kid deserves to die.....I cant understand your logic..
What are we doing here?I cant remember to read anywhere in communism that "all rich die" kids not excluded...

Well if she is competent enough to do it let her. But if she dies it's her fucking fault. And i'm 14. Stop being so ageist.

LeninKobaMao

30th August 2009, 11:46

do you have to be so cruel.

EVERYONE has some element of cruelty to their personality it's human nature to act cruelly sometimes. But as I said let her do whatever she wants do do she can suffer he consequences.

Ovi

30th August 2009, 11:51

Wanted Man

30th August 2009, 12:30

Of course she's a rich kid, of course the publicity is part of the game (getting attention and corporate sponsorship for this record attempt), and of course it's ridiculous that the whole western world is now worried about one of the happy few who can afford yachts, sailing boats and a good lawyer. I wonder what the reaction would have been if the kid was a veiled muslima, living in Rotterdam, whose parents are immigrant workers from the Rif mountains in Morocco, and who can't afford a lawyer to help them out.

All of that is lamentable, but the publicity is there now. So it may sound cool to "not give a fuck", but there is little to be done about it. Except for recognising that it's also ridiculous that municipalities and child protection agencies act as if they're above the law, enforcing their conservativism on society. The implications of that are worrying.

And yeah, someone tell me what the fuck is up with "let the rich twat die"... Good to see the kind of humanity that the left is known for...

30th August 2009, 13:09

Well if she is competent enough to do it let her. But if she dies it's her fucking fault. And i'm 14. Stop being so ageist.

Me?Ageist?:rolleyes:Where you got it from my posts that?Im 17, and in my whole life, i never wished someone to die just because s/he is rich..:rolleyes:
Those "ideas" some of you said, are ridiculous and disgusting..Pointing out this, isnt ageism, so please dont try to hang up on things that dont exist to avoid your ridiculous arguments..

Misanthrope

30th August 2009, 17:02

It's not about moral objections but about her age. If a 7 year old would want to do the same and her parents would be ok, is it really ok?

A moral objection due to her age. Stop trying emotive pleas, I have no sympathy for a girl wanting to fly around the world, regardless of her age. There is no reason to be sympathetic.

respectful87

30th August 2009, 17:16

It's a sad day when people criticize a young girl for wanting to fly around the world. :rolleyes:

This is an irrelevant issue and if you really have a moral objection to letting this girl do as she wishes... wow.

Have some compassion for a rich girl who has been spoon fed everything in her entire life! :laugh:

Stop being a liberal

I never said I objected to letting her do as she wishes but I am opposed to wishing death upon her.

I thought the whole ideology for leftist (including myself) includes being fair and just. Communism is based on doing whats right. If we are to have no compassion what makes us differ from our rivals? They have no compassion for the working class which is why they must be overthrown. The system and the exploiters are our enemies. Not a child whom has no idea of the ways of the world. Call me a liberal or a puss. I don't give a shit.

Now if she wants to do it let her, but as others said whatever happens to her is on her parents and herself.

btw All the people saying she is spoiled: Do you personaly know her? I doubt it. ou are rushing to judement from am mere article. But again this shouldn't even be a news story.

Anyways sorry for getting way off the original topic. Its just disheartining to see some peoples calousness.

EDIT: My original comment was about the guy whom wished her death and called a 13 y/o a twat.

FreeFocus

30th August 2009, 17:20

A moral objection due to her age. Stop trying emotive pleas, I have no sympathy for a girl wanting to fly around the world, regardless of her age. There is no reason to be sympathetic.

All kids (and people, generally) have dreams. Sadly, the vast majority are not able to live them out due to financial limitations, or other limitations usually imposed by society. You can raise a point that she's a spoiled brat, fine. However, I think it's better to support her endeavor, while raising the point that all people who wish to do something like this have the barriers they face torn down so that they are able to.

respectful87

30th August 2009, 17:21

Misanthrope

30th August 2009, 17:48

I never said I objected to letting her do as she wishes but I am opposed to wishing death upon her.

Letting her do as she wishes does equate to wishing death upon her.

I thought the whole ideology for leftist (including myself) includes being fair and just. Communism is based on doing whats right. If we are to have no compassion what makes us differ from our rivals? They have no compassion for the working class which is why they must be overthrown. The system and the exploiters are our enemies. Not a child whom has no idea of the ways of the world. Call me a liberal or a puss. I don't give a shit.

Communism is not based on doing what is "right". Communism is based on collective ownership of the means of production in a stateless, classless society. If you think in communism every single worker is going to work for the common good rather than their own interests than you are a sad idealist.

I don't understand why you think that I believe this child to be an enemy of the communist movement. I believe that if she has the ability to choose to sail around the world then she should be allowed to. We as communists do not need to be her parents, we do not need to decide what is good for her. This child is not apart of the working class, she is not an owner of the means of production, she is just a child, she is irrelevant to the class struggle and politics. That is why I don't care if she sails around the world.

Now if she wants to do it let her, but as others said whatever happens to her is on her parents and herself.

btw All the people saying she is spoiled: Do you personaly know her? I doubt it. ou are rushing to judement from am mere article. But again this shouldn't even be a news story.

Anyways sorry for getting way off the original topic. Its just disheartining to see some peoples calousness.

EDIT: My original comment was about the guy whom wished her death and called a 13 y/o a twat.

"Now if she wants to do it let her" exactly

Being "spoiled" is all relative. From my perspective, she, as a young teen is very well off compared to the majority of young teens (this includes working class teens, "middle" class teens and teens that are victims of imperial occupation and starvation.)

30th August 2009, 18:49

Letting her do as she wishes does equate to wishing death upon her.

It's obvious she's pretty competent at sailing, others have sailed around the world at young ages. What is your point here?

FreeFocus

30th August 2009, 19:01

This child is not apart of the working class, she is not an owner of the means of production, she is just a child, she is irrelevant to the class struggle and politics.

..so does being "irrelevant to the class struggle and politics" strip you of your value as a human being and means that you warrant no consideration whatsoever? This is a pretty ridiculous position. Communism isn't just about the working class having "collective ownership over the means of production," it's about opening up doors and removing barriers so that people can reach their full potential and realize their dreams. Our position on this girl should be one of support; a child's dreams need to be put within the context of the human story, but we also need to make it a point that there are other kids who may wish to do this but are not able to because of class society/oppression. Our position should be that we need to socialize the ability to sail around the world by removing obstacles that prevent others from doing it.

The essentially anti-human rhetoric in this thread is frightening. Yeah, capitalism sucks, yes, we need socialism. But human beings are human beings. If a human being is not involved in oppression, how fucking dare you wish death upon them (especially this, what the hell kind of thing is this to say) or declare them irrelevant. Save such rhetoric for imperialists and other people who are actually capitalists.

n0thing

30th August 2009, 19:56

Dang. Thought this was going to be a jailbait thread...

Red Apex

31st August 2009, 08:04

Dutch judges are to decide if a 13-year-old can be allowed to sail solo around the world. What do you think?

If she wants to..who cares??? Why should a judge have any say in the matter???

ZeroNowhere

31st August 2009, 09:16

This child is not apart of the working class, she is not an owner of the means of production, she is just a child, she is irrelevant to the class struggle and politics.And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Gravedigger01

31st August 2009, 10:54

If she's good enough then she's old enough

respectful87

31st August 2009, 11:24

Letting her do as she wishes does equate to wishing death upon her.

Communism is not based on doing what is "right". Communism is based on collective ownership of the means of production in a stateless, classless society. If you think in communism every single worker is going to work for the common good rather than their own interests than you are a sad idealist.

I don't understand why you think that I believe this child to be an enemy of the communist movement. I believe that if she has the ability to choose to sail around the world then she should be allowed to. We as communists do not need to be her parents, we do not need to decide what is good for her. This child is not apart of the working class, she is not an owner of the means of production, she is just a child, she is irrelevant to the class struggle and politics. That is why I don't care if she sails around the world.

"Now if she wants to do it let her" exactly

Being "spoiled" is all relative. From my perspective, she, as a young teen is very well off compared to the majority of young teens (this includes working class teens, "middle" class teens and teens that are victims of imperial occupation and starvation.)

I was responding to the person who said "let the rich twat die". Look at who I was responding to in my original post. Pay attention to detail you might learn something.

I think FreeFocus already adressed this well enough. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Well atleast we can agree on something.

Well from my perspective spoiled is an attitude. I know teens (seeing as I am one) from across the economic class spectrum and there are "spoiled" individuals from each group. I never understood how a person living in the "barrio" could be spoiled until I met persons who quickly broke that generalization.

LeninKobaMao

31st August 2009, 22:51

Me?Ageist?:rolleyes:Where you got it from my posts that?Im 17, and in my whole life, i never wished someone to die just because s/he is rich..:rolleyes:
Those "ideas" some of you said, are ridiculous and disgusting..Pointing out this, isnt ageism, so please dont try to hang up on things that dont exist to avoid your ridiculous arguments..

Umm... Your the one with ridiculous arguments for I never wished death on anyone. I said "let the rich twat die" not "I hope that rich twat dies". Did I say that? Fool.

31st August 2009, 23:17

Umm... Your the one with ridiculous arguments for I never wished death on anyone. I said "let the rich twat die" not "I hope that rich twat dies". Did I say that? Fool.

Ohh we have a smarty one here, people.Get your attacks elsewhere, or feel free to send me a visitor message/pm with anything you want, but im not going to keep a ridiculous "argument" going on, in the forums..

Ovi

11th September 2009, 15:57

A moral objection due to her age. Stop trying emotive pleas, I have no sympathy for a girl wanting to fly around the world, regardless of her age. There is no reason to be sympathetic.
You mean if your 7 year old kid would like to saild around the world although he knows nothing about sailing you would let him do that because it's his wish? That's stupid. Age is a crucial point.

ZeroNowhere

11th September 2009, 16:01

You mean if your 7 year old kid would like to saild around the world although he knows nothing about sailing you would let him do that because it's his wish? That's stupid. Age is a crucial point.
So it would be alright if he was 30?

Ovi

11th September 2009, 17:24

So it would be alright if he was 30?
Yes! It's his choice. If my kid would see a man flying with an umbrella in a movie, I would certainly be against him trying that, no matter how much he would wish to jump from the roof!

ZeroNowhere

11th September 2009, 17:46

I'm sorry, but boats must be built, and resources for a journey around the world must also be produced, and it would be something of a waste to allow somebody who knows nothing about sailing to sail around the world just because he wants to.

Ovi

11th September 2009, 17:50

chegitz guevara

11th September 2009, 18:39

1) Why is this an issue on RevLeft?

2) The level of misogyny and hatred in this thread is disgusting.

mumba miss

12th September 2009, 10:41

Why is this on the news.
Stop bickering, you sound like capitalists:)

Outinleftfield

16th September 2009, 06:25

I dont see the big deal here.
Let her do it.
She can get her education over the internet.
Its not like she can't change her mind. With a cell phone she could even call for her parents to pick her up.

And what's with all this hate. She can't help who her parents are. And how do we know she's even spoiled? If my parents owned a yacht at that age I'd probably have wanted to sail around the world too if they allowed me to. Would be great if everyone could have access to sailboats to sail around the world if they wanted to. Maybe someday they will. We shouldn't be ridiculing this girl. Her political beliefs aren't stated. For all we know she might be a communist.

What's more ridiculous is that the court not only said no but punished the parents by banning them from making any decisions on her behalf for two months and then having another review. All they did was make a request. The court could've just said "no" and left it at that.

www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1919316,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1919316,00.html)

RedHal

17th September 2009, 03:45

ah so you're born rich, so you're free to indulge in extravagant rich pursuits, while the majority of the world's population are struggling to survive and the rich brats should not be called out? And where do you think the funds come from that finance this rediculously expensive trip, her parent's fortunes are stolen from the toiling masses. Oh but she should be free to live out her beourgious lifestyle *sniff* *sniff* fuck that, call me cruel all you want, but if she drowns and we are inundated with soppy news reports, I'll probably have a grin on my face. I have absolutly no sympathy for the rich and their decadent lifestyles.

Das war einmal

17th September 2009, 13:45

We need to have certain age restrictions. Not because a person that is 13 is not responsible enough, but because the majority of 13 year olds are not responsible enough. Next to that, its very dangerous to make a world trip. We don't allow children to take drugs and alcohol before a certain age and I think thats wise.

Pirate Utopian

17th September 2009, 14:50

I dont think age should matter if you're competent enough.
She's also planning on doing schoolwork on the boat. She was stopped by the government for atleast 2 months and her parents didnt come up with the idea they even at first tried to talk her out of it before agreeing with her.

I'd really like to now why people assume she's rich. Being born on yauth means very little, I've been to mansions and I'm not rich.
My dad has a small boat, he's hardly rich.
I think the thought of her being rich is based on cliche views of what rich and poor people are supposed to do.

ah so you're born rich, so you're free to indulge in extravagant rich pursuits, while the majority of the world's population are struggling to survive and the rich brats should not be called out?
Do you watch TV? I know you use a computer with internet, you capitalist bastard.

And where do you think the funds come from that finance this rediculously expensive trip,
How the fuck do you know?

her parent's fortunes are stolen from the toiling masses. Oh but she should be free to live out her beourgious lifestyle *sniff* *sniff*
You dont fucking know that.

fuck that, call me cruel all you want, but if she drowns and we are inundated with soppy news reports, I'll probably have a grin on my face. I have absolutly no sympathy for the rich and their decadent lifestyles.
Well dont you just win the superdupercommunist award, made out of real coal cause plastic is bourgeouise decadence.