Musicians and the Fruit of their Labor

[What Would Durruti Do?]

So I got in a debate with a Marxist about illegal file sharing and how stealing music is taking the fruit of a worker's labor without compensation. (Though from my experience in dealing with the independent music scene, it's stealing from giant record labels who profit off of their labor and isn't stealing from the artists themselves.)

Just wondering what others thoughts about the file sharing debate is and how those with a leftist perspective view it.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Download all of your music.

[kharacter]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i59/ulstersocialist/0014_capitalism.jpg
http://www.revleft.com/vb/you-pay-mp3s-t99338/index.html

The link also includes some opinions regarding your question I believe. You seem to have the right idea regarding downloading, it's not any harm.

[eyedrop]

From the lyric's of Dedication from Raised Fist, one of my favorite hardcore bands, swedish guys.



Let me dedicate this song to those who never act in frustration
Let me give this song to those who have respect for all the punkbands in the nation
Let me pass this song to all the people that dare to disagree
Let me dedicate this song to those who downloaded this song as a mp3

[jake williams]

I know a fair number of musicians. They're virtually all broke, and only a tiny number of them make a living off it. Those who do for the most part make it from gigs, of course, not record sales. If you like a band and you buy their CD (or merch or whatever), if it's a "normal" band and not a "famous" band they can probably use the money - but, and I say this as a musician, I don't think anyone has the right to assume that they can make money by doing something that they really, really enjoy, and which makes other people like them. Virtually no musicians do it for the money. And if it's on a label the artist isn't seeing much of it, of course.

Personally I do by CDs of bands I like, I like supporting them, but, especially for more popular bands who're more financially stable, I see nothing wrong with downloading songs, at all. I think any musician who isn't full of shit would/should be happy to have lots of people listening to their music.

[Misanthrope]

Yes. Don't oppress the millionaire proletarians.

[yuon]

From an anti-state perspective, obviously copyright should be opposed (a state enforced and created monopoly).

From a socialist perspective, copyright should be opposed (all for all, share, be happy).

Therefore, from a socialist, anti-state perspective, in the current capitalist system, it makes a shit load of sense to be anti-copyright.

That's not anti paying people to make music, write books etc. Just anti said people being able to write one book, record one album, and then continue to make money off that for 50 (70 in the USA) years after they die.

Personally, in the current system, I can see a place for a limited copyright. Maybe about five years at the most, and less for certain things (software and music among other things). Most music sales are within the first five years of the piece being released (same with software), so a person is not "losing" a significant amount by their work being given back to the public.

Oh, in case you don't know, copyright is merely a method of encouraging stuff to be produced, by giving an artificial monopoly on the production of new copies, for a limited time. After which, it reverts back to the public (public domain) I seriously can't see how having John Lennon's Imagine still under copyright is encouraging him write more music though.

[ArrowLance]

There are several artists who don't expect money, it's just in the capitalist system they get drowned out by all the popular and signed musicians.

[The Essence Of Flame Is The Essence Of Change]

If you like music that its owned by multinational companies then PIRACY IS YOUR FRIEND:cool:
DIY or independent-label groups on the other hands could use some of your money if you support their stance/music.

I will only actually buy music from some non DIY/Independent band/music very rarely if its one of my really really faved ones.(Like New Model Army,gotta love these guys and I want to support them even though their best albums were published by EMI)

As for stupid arguements against file sharing,it's a conv leading nowhere :D If they were no companies making money out of the artists there wouldn't be a problem to start with.If you think of it every tiny little action that brings you closer to revolution is gonna hurt someone you fight for because simply capitalism is structured in such a way that the weak and poor act as a shield against the Bourgeoisie.

[ev]

Musicians make most of their money from touring and live events. Music studios make 90% of the money from album sales. I shit you not.

I download my music and movies (for free), I do support artists when they come touring in my area though, because I know that they get most of their money that way.

Only ever go and use your hard earned cash to see good musicians though, none of that pop bullshit - sorry guys, someone had to say it..

Music, movies and other forms of art belong to society, for society provides the circumstances in which artists can produce art, hence society should be entitled to enjoy what artists create for free.

[cb9's_unity]

If your gonna put $20 into a band do it at a show and/or at the merch table. There are plenty of bands who either give their music away free (Bomb the music industry!) or just tell you to steal music (Protest the Hero).

I'm musician and actually just started college as a music major. If I were to ever make any sort of popular music I would certainly want it to be downloaded illegally. I'll write and produce music for the fun, touring is where the cash (or at least some cash) is at.

[Drace]

watch the Southpark episode
"Christian Hard Rock"

[1billion]

actually most true capitalists are against intellectual property rights;)

[mykittyhasaboner]

watch the Southpark episode
"Christian Hard Rock"
I think my favorite part of that episode was when the fucking swat team busted in and arrested Stan, Kenny, and Kyle while they where downloading music. Followed by a long lecture by the police cheif which I will recite from memory.

"Since you kids decided to download music illegally, now Lars Ulrich, drummer of Metallica has to wait 6 months for a new golden fountain statue. Britney Spears used to have a Gulfstream 4 private jet, now shes had to downgrade to a Gulfstream 3; which doesn't even have a remote for the dvd surround sound system. This is the family of Master P, he was hoping to buy his new children an island in French Plolynesia; but since people like you kids decided to download music on the interenet for free, guess what boys, those kids will never get their island in French Polynesia."


You see kids, downloading music is really baaad. You don't want filthy rich musicians to be sad now do you? I would advise watching the episode (http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103772) to get the hilarious sarcasm of it.

[JJM 777]

In the theoretical situation that we would have a Socialist state, in a world that includes also Capitalist states, there would probably be some kind of a firewall between the Socialist part and Capitalist part, because in the Socialist part the state would pay their own artists directly, but in the Capitalist part the artists would receive payments by selling the music rather than letting them be downloaded for free.

In all areas of intellectual property -- not only music but also books, computer games, computer programs etc. -- peaceful and reasonable economical trade between the Socialist part and the Capitalist part would require that the Socialist part fully respects the intellectual rights of the Capitalist part, and also refrains from flooding the Capitalist economy with free stuff from the Socialist part, which would cause losses to the sales of the pay-per-download content in the Capitalist market.

So there would be a firewall preventing the citizens of Capitalist side from downloading free stuff from the Socialist side, and vice versa: any music or other products crossing the firewall to either direction would be commercial merchandise, paid by the downloader on the other side of the firewall. Capitalists would require such an arrangement, and Socialists would agree to it because they want to have peaceful trade relations, to be able to import and export merchandise as necessary.

[Yehuda Stern]

To be honest, I don't think it should be important to socialists that artists are able to make money off of their art. All it does is make some people become musicians or artists of some other kind for the money, and make others compromise their art when their old style no longer enjoys mainstream success.

[Robocommie]

One of my favorite album names of all time was the System of a Down album, "Steal This Album!"

Obviously inspired by Abbie Hoffman's Steal This Book

[mykittyhasaboner]

It's cool when artists just give away their music for free too, which as of now has become a fairly popular thing to do. They know it's mostly going to be downloaded anyways. In turn, this will open up there music to a much larger audience and get money in return by increased sales at shows, merch, etc. Selling music is completely obsolete, but that said I still buy an album every know and then; especially if it's to support a smaller band.