Ted Kennedy Dies.

[absurd_planet]

Who's interests did he represent? As a member of the Senate for decades, he was arguably on of the most influential law-makers in U.S history.

Any thoughts?

[gorillafuck]

He's dead? When did that happen?

And he was a liberal. He seems like he may have been a bit more principled than many liberals but he was a capitalist, and he represented liberal capitalism.

[Plagueround]

If Ted was dead, the news sites would be flooded with memorial shit right now.

[absurd_planet]

dumb fuck go to abc.com or google his name he died from brain cancer it was just announced

[GPDP]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TedKennedy/story?id=6692022

There's the source. There's Breaking News alerts on other news sites as well.

[Plagueround]

dumb fuck go to abc.com or google his name he died from brain cancer it was just announced

It wasn't up when I checked, most sites are just now being updated. Now kindly stop being a jerk.

[PRC-UTE]

dumb fuck go to abc.com or google his name he died from brain cancer it was just announced

Calm down, please.

[absurd_planet]

I didn't wanna derail this discussion any further by responding.

I posted something that was true and you've replied back twice with things that have nothing to do with Ted Kennedy. Let's get back on topic.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Good riddance.

I can't say I'm looking forward to the months of remembrance we're going to have to endure, however. As if he was some big fucking hero.

He hasn't done shit since he came out of his moms vag except kill that girl (jail time? Oh wait, this is royalty we're talking about) and be named Kennedy. Also all this BS about how he was a liberal lion in the Senate. Please, his greatest accomplishment was No Child Left Behind!!! And they call him a "liberal lion." :rolleyes:

He's not either of his brothers, both of whom may have put the Democratic Party in a more democratic-socialist direction, especially in the late 1960s. Instead he's an aged joke that's given way too much respect because of his name, and nothing else.

[Saorsa]

He's not either of his brothers, both of whom may have put the Democratic Party in a more democratic-socialist direction, especially in the late 1960s.

Are you joking or just really, really uninformed?

[Lolshevik]

Perhaps he meant social-democratic. Even then I still would disagree.

[New Tet]

Who's interests did he represent? As a member of the Senate for decades, he was arguably on of the most influential law-makers in U.S history.

Any thoughts?

First and foremost, Kennedy represented his family's interests. After that, his class'.

[KurtFF8]

He certainly was one of the main leaders of the left-wing of the Democratic Party in the US that has pushed for things like Single-Payer health care (aka decent reforms of the capitalist system).

It shouldn't even have to be said "but he represented the interests of the ruling class!" that's just obvious. We can, however, acknowledge that such reforms to capitalism do bring material benefits to the working class and are better than not having said reforms.

That's not to say we should go join the Party and campaign for people like Kennedy, but to completely dismiss everything people like himself and the left-wing of the Democratic Party do seems a little lacking in depth in my opinion.

Of course we could take the opinion of "all reforms of capitalism are meant to buy off revolutionary tendencies of the working class" which I do view as an important view to hold as well.

[Comrade B]

He was another well intended puppet of the US system. Better than most of the democrats, things will get a little worse, but it is no major change.

[Il Medico]

Is it wrong for me to be apathetic? He was a capitalist, yes. He was perhaps one of the more principled ones, but never did anything to make me hate him. Or love him for that matter... so meh. Although his sister died like a week or two ago, so it must be pretty sad for the Kennedys to have two deaths back to back like that.

[Josef Balin]

That's not to say we should go join the Party and campaign for people like Kennedy, but to completely dismiss everything people like himself and the left-wing of the Democratic Party do seems a little lacking in depth in my opinion.
???

You mean reformism?

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Are you joking or just really, really uninformed?

I meant social-democrat of the euro variety.

I forgot for a moment I have to keep my labels in the right order.

[Colonello Buendia]

I think that If i was to pick an american capitalist not to hate it would be a Kennedy. Ted was was an important character in american politics and his death may possible allow for the Healthcare bill to pass which inturn will reduce the number of deaths from preventable illnesses. Therefore one might argue that something good will come out of him.


If anyone believes that the Kennedy's were social democrats they're wrong, they were left wing in comparison to republicans so effectively centre right. JFK maintained the blocade on cuba and clearly despised socialistic thought, he was merely more moderate and alot sexier than most US politicians, same goes for the other brothers

[Axle]

Ted Kennedy was an American politician to the core (as in holding Capitalist class interests above all else) and will only be remembered on the grounds of being a Kennedy.

I watched some of the memorial coverage on television yesterday and it was as much about the Kennedy family as it was about him. Even Fox News, setting aside all bias in the name of ratings, were paying him tribute.

I'm not upset or glad that he died. I don't feel strongly either way. Strip away the famous surname and Ted Kennedy was just another run-of-the-mill politician.

[Guerrilla22]

Yeah he was the typical New England liberal, politically no big loss, It's always sad to see someone have their life cut short by cancer though.

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

I tip my hat to the man for being a veritable one-man political machine for nearly 3 decades, but overall for reasons stated above I'm mostly apathetic.

[RedSonRising]

Since he never got in a position to make too many exploitative decisions, I would say he did more good (through reforms) than bad for the people of the country.

I'd say he, like many politicians, support capitalism out of a belief that the system works best in comparison to socialism and that through reform we can all be fat and happy. Which isn't true, of course, but a lot of times I come to think that for many politicians, "supporting their class" isn't part of their day to day train of thought. I think there are some politicians like Kennedy who think they are doing things in the holistic interest of the people, and just simply lack exposure or education in Marxist analysis and don't view things through the lens of class struggle.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't vote for him or support reformism, just saying that some people in medium positions in power aren't working-class representatives for reasons other than a burning need to protect the interests of the ruling-class. I don't think they read the communist manifesto and go "I think I'll go with the Bourgoisie in this epic historic battle," like Buffet basically stated.

That's not to say many upper level people are aware of the competing interests between public/private, but guys like Kennedy...he was just a senator. Sorry if I got off track, it was just a realization I came to as I started this post.

[Luís Henrique]

I'm not one to commemorate someone's death, unless they are some monsters of the Goebbel's kind. And even then, only if it results of some political action from someone actually entitled to it (Roehm being killed? No problem here. Roehm being killed on Hitler's orders? Big difference.)

That said, Ted Kennedy was certainly a representative of the New Englander high bourgeoisie, with all the characteristic qualities and flaws that this entails. He was however more progressive than his older brother John, who was a fanatic anticommunist, or his father Joe, who was an appeaser at the time of WWII, when he was US ambassador to London.

Luís Henrique

[Hoggy_RS]

IRA sympathiser Ted Kennedy was no friend of Britain


It says much about humanity’s basic urge to be ruled by dynasties that Teddy Kennedy came anywhere near being elected president in 1980. Whatever his other qualities, his behaviour at Chappaquid**** eleven years earlier, where he might have been able to save Mary Jo Kopechne’s life but instead chose to save his own career by waiting until his blood/alcohol level reached a legal level, would have ruled out anyone else from becoming local rat catcher, let alone leader of the greatest nation on earth.

But after the murder of his brothers John and Bobby, Teddy became America’s atheling – until the public realised there was little good left to come out of that clan (with the exception of Arnold Schwarzenegger, married to Teddy’s niece Maria Shriver).

Kennedy was no doubt a dedicated servant of Congress and a passionate believer in combating poverty, but his lasting legacy on this side of the Atlantic was to poison Anglo-American relations for a generation. It’s not often said aloud but many British people when they first saw United 175 hit the World Trade Centre felt, alongside shock, pity and a sense of solidarity with the American people, also a feeling of “now you know what terrorism is like, will you stop funding the murder of our people?”

For years Kennedy was the bang-drummer-in-chief for brainless Irish-American IRA sympathisers, dimwits who shouted “troops out of Dublin!” and sang maudlin songs from the comfort of Boston and New York, giving money for strangers 3,000 miles away to murder their neighbours.

For despite the pseudo-Marxist justifications the IRA used, which was obviously lapped up by useful idiots on both sides of the Irish Sea and across the Atlantic, their goal was always ethnic cleansing against their neighbours, the people who Americans still call “the Scots-Irish”.

Kennedy himself said that Ulster Protestants “should be given a decent opportunity to go back to Britain”, without in any way suggesting he would give Boston back to the Indians (or the English-Americans, for that matter) and return to Co. Wexford. He compared Britain’s presence in Ulster with America’s in Vietnam, and later forced Jimmy Carter to ban arm sales to the RUC, blackening the name of that tirelessly heroic band of men, each one of them worth a thousand spoiled Ivy League playboys.

Kennedy spoke out against violence in Northern Ireland while cosying up to IRA terrorists, the cause of the violence, ensuring Gerry Adams could visit the States in 1996 and celebrate that great festival of plastic patriotism and falseness, the American St Patrick’s Day Festival. He only later distanced himself from Sinn Fein/IRA after their goons murdered Robert McCartney and the American public woke up to the reality of “the boys”.

It’s bad manners to speak ill of the dead, before his family have got the chance to bury their loved one, but it cannot go forgotten. I’m sure Kennedy was essentially a good man and a servant of his own country, but he was certainly no friend of ours.

Link:http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100007596/ira-sympathiser-ted-kennedy-was-no-friend-of-britain/

Absolutley ridiculous story I came across on another forum. The part in bold sums up how idiotic the writer is.

[BIG BROTHER]

Ted Kenedy I believe was mostly his last name than anything. I mean as a political figure I think he was underrated, and seeing that he was known as the "great bipartisan" that probably means (too lazy to corroborate facts) he wasn't even all that "liberal"

[*Red*Alert]

Reacting to the news that Senator Edward Kennedy has passed away after a long battle with illness, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams said:


“It is with great sadness that I heard of the death of Senator Edward Kennedy . He has served the American people with courage and commitment for nearly 50 years. His service to Ireland through his role in the Peace Process was exceptional and contributed significantly to its progress.



“Senator Kennedy also carried out sterling work with, and on behalf of, the undocumented Irish in the United States and brought forward proposals to see this issue, that affects so many, resolved.
“My sincere condolences to his wife Vicky and family, to his sister Jean Kennedy Smith, who as Ambassador to Ireland also played a crucial role in the Peace Process, and to his wide family circle .


“My condolences also to his colleagues in the Senate and Congress and to the American people who have lost a champion. Ted Kennedy will be deeply regretted and much missed.”

While I personally wouldn't go as far to call Ted Kennedy "a champion", he did fight for real reforms that would have made life more tolerable for ordinary Americans.

Internationally, he was always a strong supporter of the Peace Process and wished to see the political engagement we now have in Ireland rather than the former armed struggle. In recent years, despite claims of distancing himself due to the activity of rogue ex-IRA people, he remained in support of the way forward.

[Saorsa]

Kennedy was always a supporter of the SDLP, not the Provos, and he was apparently on good terms with SDLP leader John Hume. He wasn't an IRA supporter.

[*Red*Alert]

Kennedy was always a supporter of the SDLP, not the Provos, and he was apparently on good terms with SDLP leader John Hume. He wasn't an IRA supporter.
Since the Peace Process though he'd grown quite friendly with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, hence annual invites to the White House on St. Patrick's Day.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41455000/jpg/_41455662_adams_kennedy_af203p.jpg

*Start ominous music* Our new sympathizer:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2lngid.jpg

[Saorsa]

Perhaps this makes me a bad person but that photo at the bottom cracked me up, the tiny wee woman looks like some kind of gnome compared to Gerry and Barack! :lol: Who is she?

I love how St Patricks Day is the token "all things Irish" day, even for matters like the GFA and the process around it.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

If anyone believes that the Kennedy's were social democrats they're wrong, they were left wing in comparison to republicans so effectively centre right. JFK maintained the blocade on cuba and clearly despised socialistic thought, he was merely more moderate and alot sexier than most US politicians, same goes for the other brothers

One has to remember that creating a blockade on Cuba was the dovish move at the time. Because it was unkown that Cuba has short-range missiles ready, the US came very close to going in and removing Castro and the threat before the long-range missiles were ready to go online. Obviously that would have been disastrous, but to paint the episode in such a black-and-white frame is overly simplistic in my opinion. In the chess game the world was involved in the US had to respond (obviously assuming the US interests) and the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff called for an aerial assault followed by divisions of marines, which were already mobilized, landing on the beach and invading. The blockade allowed Kennedy to look like he was doing something, which, don't get me wrong , he was, while giving precious time to negotiate a truce which didn't involve Cuba/West Berlin changing hands and the dominos to start falling.

Now, to say Kennedy intended for 50 years of blockade is a stretch and obvioulsy can't all be pinned on him. And don't get the wrong idea, I'm not a big fan of JFK myself, but I admit the man avoided nuclear war even if he didn't deliver on civil rights.

With that said, the assasination of Bobby Kennedy in 1968 ended the last good chance of social democracy in the United States. It was the virtual end to any type of 1960s progressivism as thousands of anti-war demonstrators were beaten in the Chicago streets as the Democrats nominated a good-ol boy in Hubert Humphrey who was the complete opposite of the platform of ending the war in Vietnam and "Black blood blue blood" coalition that Kennedy had put together during the campaign.

Obviously Kennedy getting elected wouldn't have been a great communist socialist voctory, but it is undeniably true that the election of Richard Nixon was one of the most regressive steps this country has ever taken at one time, and that the US has never had anything close to a political left, in any sense of the word, since the late 1960s.

Between MLK getting shot, RFK getting shot, and the Chicago beatdown, 1968 was probably the worse year for progressive politic in the 60 years of post-war America. I would go so far as to argue that Reagan and, eventually, Bush, were largely the symptoms of those events, as a dissillusioned generation turned off and back on in a completely different aspect.

[RotStern]

Hmmm well I dont view this as a bad thing without him workers in America would probably be screwed even more in America

[Luís Henrique]

One has to remember that creating a blockade on Cuba was the dovish move at the time.

However, it is not true that John Kennedy merely maintained the embargo against Cuba. He tried an outright invasion, which failed miserably.

Luís Henrique

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Very true, and I did neglect to mention the Bay of Pigs. However, what I meant was an invasion of the US military, not a bunch of gung-ho exiles. If the military men had had their way, or, say, W was the President at the time, Cuba would have been bombed for days while tens of thousands of US soldiers and tanks rolled onto it. It looks abvsolutely ridiculous to comprehend something such as that today, but that's what was being prepared.


Hmmm well I dont view this as a bad thing without him workers in America would probably be screwed even more in America


What do you mean? Were you responding to Ted being deceased or my post?