Fighting off B.S. capitalist 'arguments' help

[StrictlyRuddie]

So I thought I'd create a thread were people could post some common arguments and criticisms and get some good and legit responses to use. I have some now on 'incentive'..

A common argument from pro capital is that

"There would be no incentive to work under socialism"

or

"There would be no incentive to work when 'each according to there abilities to each according to there needs" is implemented because when those who work more then the average joe see his fellow brethren slacking off and just working the minimum, the hard worker would begin to work less and less slowing down productivity etc."

or..

"There would be no incentive to create new/better products/services under socialism because the lack of the profit motive. People create new and better products and make it happen because they want money, thus no creativity"

[MarxSchmarx]

You'll find a lot (if not all) the answers to these in the high school commies guide.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/high-school-commie-t22370/index.html

[StrictlyRuddie]

Thank you, I never really read that entire thread. :)

[ZeroNowhere]

This (http://www.slp.org/pdf/de_leon/ddlother/fif_ques.pdf) may also be relevant.


"There would be no incentive to create new/better products/services under socialism because the lack of the profit motive.Wait, but then what is R&D for, seeing as surely only capitalists invent things?

[Comrade Akai]

So I thought I'd create a thread were people could post some common arguments and criticisms and get some good and legit responses to use. I have some now on 'incentive'..

A common argument from pro capital is that

"There would be no incentive to work under socialism"

or

"There would be no incentive to work when 'each according to there abilities to each according to there needs" is implemented because when those who work more then the average joe see his fellow brethren slacking off and just working the minimum, the hard worker would begin to work less and less slowing down productivity etc."

or..

"There would be no incentive to create new/better products/services under socialism because the lack of the profit motive. People create new and better products and make it happen because they want money, thus no creativity"

Workers would do all of those things because they would see the benefit in doing so, because everyone works together in a communist system and for the good of each other. They also get to choose to do whatever they like with absolute freedom, so if they like their job why would they not want to do their best?

[ZeroNowhere]

Workers would do all of those things because they would see the benefit in doing so, because everyone works together in a communist system and for the good of each other. They also get to choose to do whatever they like with absolute freedom, so if they like their job why would they not want to do their best?
And what if they find their own hobbies more interesting than the jobs available? For example, if they would rather sit around reading Dunsany all day than work some job, from cleaning to factory work to programming, etc? After all, what sensible person with a good taste in literature wouldn't?

[Muzk]

If you are able to work, you work. You don't have a choice.

Meaning - lazyness is no excuse

[Comrade Akai]

And what if they find their own hobbies more interesting than the jobs available? For example, if they would rather sit around reading Dunsany all day than work some job, from cleaning to factory work to programming, etc? After all, what sensible person with a good taste in literature wouldn't?
There has to be something they enjoy that can be made into work.

[NecroCommie]

If capitalists ever argue anything about the productivity of society, one can always remind them that it is the communists, not the capitalists who endorse: "Those who don't work, shall not eat".

So what if it is a strawman. It's not like those cappies would change their minds anyway. If one likes to argue properly however, there is this point that states how communism, even if unproductive, compensates the productivity of the individual with the productivity of society. We don't even need for anyone to work to their fullest when every single person works. A situation virtually impossible during capitalism.

This is ofcourse provided that communism would even decrease motivation to work, because it is bullshit claim that money would be man's only, or even the strongest incentive. Mankind survived aeons before any form of universal currency was ever invented. It can be said even, that once money started artificially hoarding possessions to a dominating sect of society, that significant portion has been motivated to slack ever since. Simultaneously denying the rest of population their earned compensation for their work.

And even all this time the entire point has been in vain for the cappies. It is outrageously ridiculous to claim that productivity=good society. We communists have more important matters to think about than the petty increases in productivity. Prime values of humanity have always been food, housing, entertainment and health, and it has been primarily capitalists that have separated workers from their even-now-humble desires.

[Ohnoatard]

Under Crapitalism, workers are usually paid by a 'min. wage' (I think it's 8 dollars or something). No matter how hard you work, you get the same amounts of money, What's the incentives under Crapitalism then?
_________
Under socialism, the incentive to come up with more efficient ways to do things is that we'd have to work less time to do the same amount of work! The amount of necessary labor needed to produce the things we need like food, housing, etc. would gradually decrease so that eventually we may only need to "work" for 2 hours a week or less! Of course as humans we would not be lazy and sit around - humans are curious, exploratory, and want to learn, invent, etc. Our "free" time would be spent creating ever better works of art, scientific research, cures for diseases, etc. After a period of time, the new generations will not even know what it was like under capitalism, and the productivity of labor will be tremendously high. The barrier between "work" and raw human exploration and mastery over its environment (in harmony with the environment!) will disappear also - no more coercive state, police, etc. No more chaos in the markets - the workers will plan what we need and then reinvest a portion to continually make even better things. Everyone will be "rich" so to speak - able to travel, to live comfortably, to eat what they wish, to continue their education throughout life.

[Dr Mindbender]

Under Crapitalism, workers are usually paid by a 'min. wage' (I think it's 8 dollars or something). No matter how hard you work, you get the same amounts of money, What's the incentives under Crapitalism then?

if you don't work hard enough, you lose your job. Seems to be.

[punisa]

Under Crapitalism, workers are usually paid by a 'min. wage' (I think it's 8 dollars or something). No matter how hard you work, you get the same amounts of money, What's the incentives under Crapitalism then?
_________
Under socialism, the incentive to come up with more efficient ways to do things is that we'd have to work less time to do the same amount of work! The amount of necessary labor needed to produce the things we need like food, housing, etc. would gradually decrease so that eventually we may only need to "work" for 2 hours a week or less! Of course as humans we would not be lazy and sit around - humans are curious, exploratory, and want to learn, invent, etc. Our "free" time would be spent creating ever better works of art, scientific research, cures for diseases, etc. After a period of time, the new generations will not even know what it was like under capitalism, and the productivity of labor will be tremendously high. The barrier between "work" and raw human exploration and mastery over its environment (in harmony with the environment!) will disappear also - no more coercive state, police, etc. No more chaos in the markets - the workers will plan what we need and then reinvest a portion to continually make even better things. Everyone will be "rich" so to speak - able to travel, to live comfortably, to eat what they wish, to continue their education throughout life.

Oh crap, you almost made me cry ;)
That was simply beautiful, in a few lines you summed up all that true revolutionary fights for !

[ZeroNowhere]

If capitalists ever argue anything about the productivity of society, one can always remind them that it is the communists, not the capitalists who endorse: "Those who don't work, shall not eat".Please don't generalize, we are not all assholes.


There has to be something they enjoy that can be made into work.For every necessary job, are there enough people who would prefer to do it than play sports, read, and so on? Also, while perhaps something which they enjoy can be made into work, there are lots of things which I enjoy, but hardly do, because I enjoy other things more, and so on. There is no reason to assume that people would have some work which they prefer to their hobbies.