1984

[Socialmalfunction]

that book made me think about everything concerning how we live. big brother vs our government... is there really a big difference? they had telescreens we have hidden cameras. in 1984 everything they said was the opposite of what they really meant. ministry of truth told lies... english socialism? dont the same rules apply there? the world in which we live much closer to the world that orwell saw than many would like to imagine. so where is the world heading? it really makes you think about what you are in the big scheme of things. the best damn book i ever read just for that fact alone.

[Conghaileach]

The difference between Orwell's Oceania and our world is that the resistance that exists here is real.

[Socialmalfunction]

true, and that does make all the difference in the world doesnt it? but how can we really resist what we cant always see? like they said if you cant express your thoughts and feelings, do the even exist? much of what goes on we are blind to, so how can we know to resist in the first place?

[ComradeJunichi]

I have a question about the brotherhood in that book. So the brotherhood never existed? It was just planned and made up by O'Brian?

[Conghaileach]

My opinion is that the Brotherhood was created by the Party as a way of finding out about possible rebels within the Party, so that they could be taken care of.

[ComradeJunichi]

Oh...That sucks for Winston. To believe it and totally get screwed over.
That book is very scary. Big Brother and living like that? (we might be halfway there already) The scariest was when Winston and, I think, Julia were in the room above the antique shop. They were repeating something and then there was a telescreen behind the wall and a bunch of police came upstairs. I think they said "you are dead", haha I don't remember. fill me in

[Conghaileach]

I just posted a topic in Politics on how the U$ is turning into the Orwellian nightmare.

The URL is http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...m=11&topic=1896 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=11&topic=1896)

[Socialmalfunction]

yeah they were saying they are dead and the dood in the telescreen repeated it. it was a scary book but i loved it. it has a ring of truth in it that no one can completely deny... you know?

[perception]

the ending of that book pissed me off.

but it makes you feel the frustration of anyone who'd try to resist the Party.

[ComradeJunichi]

I totally agree...you mean how Winston gave up? Did exactly as O'Brian wanted, ratted on Julia? Then, Winston learned to love the system and Big Brother.
So what would you have preferred? That Winston overthrew Big Brother? Even though the ending pissed me off, I think it makes you think more.

[Titus]

George Orwell worked for the BBC for awhile; I'm pretty sure he was one of the people writing news for radio broadcasts. His job was not unlike that of Winston Smith's in the book...

Orwell said that the book was a reflection of a government that he saw in Britain, and the dangers of it escalating to a regime not unlike the totalitarian right-wing horrors of the Third Reich in Germany.

In fact, I'm pretty sure Orwell released a book about it. A factual one about his time working with propaganda. Hmm,

[vox]

The point is, when we see it happening around us, we must resist it.

If we are too afraid to resist, then it is, of course, too late to resist. That's the whole point about Big Brother. It doesn't matter if BB watches you all the time or not. The important thing is whether you ACT like BB is watching you all the time.

vox

[Felicia]

I wanted to rewrite the ending, so do some friends of mine.

[Socialmalfunction]

i wouldnt change it if i could. when you see how its going to end, it pisses you off, but i think that with even more reason it should be left as it is. you cant fully understand the power of BB until you see that even your thoughts arent yours. the government has more power over you than you would ever like to think. at least that is what i got out of the story.

[ComradeJunichi]

I agree with sociallmalfunction, I think I said something like that earlier.
As much as I don't like the ending, makes me think about it...

[mentalbunny]

!984 completely terrified me, i was shit scared of what the world could become. I value truth and the whole doublethink freaked me out. I haven't read it in a year or so, so my memories of it are a bit fuzzy but it had a huge impact on me.

It's so sad that in the end Winston becomes like the rest of them. I really wqanted some kind of "happy ending" but i gues the fact it doens't have one makes it more powerful and gives it more meaning than some kind of scary fiction thing. It just looks so much more possible when he becomes like the rest, more plausible, 'cos if that did happen there would probably be very few who could resist, and if they could they'd probably be the ones in power.

I suspect that if it did happen the kind of people who could resist would be the kind who post in this community. That gives me courage.

[Socialmalfunction]

nicely put, mentalbunny. but then everyone who has posted here has said something that lets you know there are people out there who will revolt no matter what. and thanks comradejunichi, but your name reminds me so much of 1984 that i cant help but find it interesting. lol :)

[j]

I think that it is important to recognize one of Orwell's most salient points: don't let the world become 1984. If you let the world end up like 1984 than you will not be able to fight it. The Party was too far along in their ability to be powerful. Winston had no choice!!! If we let things get bad enough, we all will submit!!!

Orwell's book is a classic cautionary tale. I think his point was to rebel while we still can. Before the party gets too much power. I think we all see the allusions to 1984 in the US (Patriot Act, TIPS, War on Terror). We need to do something about it NOW!!! We must challenge the authority of Big Brother I mean George Bush!!!

j

[President Dick Nixon]

1984 was written to show the oppression and tyranny of the Communist state. The references in the book are made to Communist countries, not democratic countries. It is a shame that you left wing Communist scum use such works as part of campaigning anti-American sentiments.

[Conghaileach]

You do of course realise that Orwell himself was "left wing Communist scum"?

[President Dick Nixon]

George Orwell condemned the Soviet Union!

I disagree with his leftist views, and agree that he was no laissez-faire capitalist, nevertheless he was no communist! Its funny how you lefties twist words so often. George Orwell was against the oppressive Soviet regime, 1984 was fiction about living in such a regime at home. The numerous references in the novel clearly insinuated a Communist dictatorship, not one of any other kind.

[j]

Orwell was a libertarian socialist. Of course he did not support the USSR!!! There are a lot of us here who don't either!!!!

In Orwell's time he was a harsh critic of the perversion of socialism. When Winston read Goldstein's book it was said, "Socialism, which appeared in the 19th century... was the last link in a chain of thought stretching back to the slave rebellions of antiquity...But in each variant of Socialism that appeared from 1900 onwards the aim of establishing liberty and equality was more and more openly abandoned....These new movements...tended to keep their names and pay lip-service to their ideology."

You see Orwell is calling the socialist ideal great but it could be easily changed to suit the needs of those in power. You need to understand that Orwell wrote this in the fourties following both the tyrannies of Hitler and Stalin who both called themselves socialist but in reality were not.

I believe that if Orwell were to write this book now his idealogies would only be slightly different. Instead of IngSoc, it would be IngCap, or IngImperial.....but the reality of what he wrote would still be same. The insane patriotism of the people of Oceania (um, look at the bumper of 1/2 the cars rolling down your street), war with an enemy of continental proportions (GWB, "You are either with us, or with the terrorists"were fighting Afganistan--no Iraq--no the Axis of Evil...is there really a difference? Haven't we always been at war with EastAsia, I mean Iraq?), the population under constant surveillance (Internet eavsdropping, i mean investigations, TIPS, the Patriot Act).

Orwell thought these things would come from Socialism. But they have not. Orwell was wrong in pegging socialism for this type of stuff...actually capitalism was not then what it is today...the corporate dictatorship did not exist then.

j

[perception]

Quote: from President Dick Nixon on 5:32 pm on Aug. 10, 2002
George Orwell condemned the Soviet Union!

I disagree with his leftist views, and agree that he was no laissez-faire capitalist, nevertheless he was no communist! Its funny how you lefties twist words so often. George Orwell was against the oppressive Soviet regime, 1984 was fiction about living in such a regime at home. The numerous references in the novel clearly insinuated a Communist dictatorship, not one of any other kind.


I think Oceania had more in common with USA 2002 than it did with the USSR.

[Xvall]

Orwell did not like the U.S, 1984 wasn't a refrence for any one nation, but rather a warning of any totalitarian regime. A study of modern society, although it is not as harsh.

Big Brother is like Uncle Sam, a non-existant entity; and the embodiment of 'The Party'. People are expected to hold rallies and have extreme support of the party. Natiobnalism is abundant, as it is in the United States. Goldstien is like Osoma Bin Laden. Our #1 enemy. Although we don't actually know if he even exists or is alive anymore. Our government must spend tons and tons of money to 'find him'. Two minute hate, as we glare at our television screen occasionally at some speech with 'goldstien' talking, and angrilly shout at it. A screen. We are in 1984. A diffirent version, but all the same. Massive military action. War movies. Desensitization. Our enemies swap commonly. We were always at was with Eastasia. The enemy of our enemy is our friend. A few years ago we were allies with Iraq. We were allies with 'goldstien'. We rallied behind him in support. What happened?

I'm just ranting at this point... Just ignore it..

[President Dick Nixon]

1984 featured a one-party state, a state that owned all the means of production and distribution. The book was written in 49, after the world was able to see how one member of the Allied powers enforced its own totalitarian ideology onto every nation it "liberated" from the Nazi occupation. With the fall of fascism there was only one ever increasing threat to the free world.

There is only one type of dictatorship that has such attributes: a Communist dictatorship.

[Mazdak]

Hey dumbass, i thought cappies werent allowed in any forum except cVSs?

[Moskitto]

George Orwell condemned the Soviet Union!

So did Trotsky.

[Socialmalfunction]

drake made an excellent point. the US is constantly at war. people have gotten so used to that fact that its easy to just "forget" that its going on at all. this war that never ends doesnt have to be an "official" war declared by politics, the US might just be "helping out" some other country by sending in the troops. and i dont think orwell was condemning any one place. i think he was condemning all governments in a way. it was called a socialism because he book is nothing but contradictions. minitrue, minipeace, minipax, miniluv, any of these ring a bell. nothing was as it seemed, just like now. so i agree, the book was a warning... to us all, everywhere.

and why is dick in this thread??

[j]

Yes, Orwell condemned the Soviet Union. So do I.

But you can not fail to see the links between 1984 and USA 2002. Orwell condemned all totalitarian states. The US in under a totalitarian regime of corporate dictators.

Orwell condmened any sort of loss of freedom--the ctizens of the US are losing them daily.

j

[Lefty]

That is probably my favorite book. It is just such great writing on so many levels. That and the fact that it manages to maintain its relevance many years after its publication are testaments to the genious of George Orwell.

[Socialmalfunction]

yeah lefty good point. its probably my favorite book too. there is just too many things about that book that make sense for me to feel differently.