my problem with fascist watch list [Archive]

danyboy27

24th August 2009, 17:58

Demogorgon

25th August 2009, 01:48

It allows certain members to imagine they are part of a glorious struggle against the fascist hordes at the gates.

Robert

25th August 2009, 01:56

some lists circulate with the name and adresses of fascists on revleft

What the hell is this about? List? Circulate? Circulate among whom?

danyboy27

25th August 2009, 03:53

What the hell is this about? List? Circulate? Circulate among whom?

well, there is some list of fascist and other right winger circulating inside antifascist circles, one of them actually on revleft.

i have recently been able to see this :http://www.revleft.com/vb/wikileaks-us-national-p1528684/index.html#post1528684

this is one of the fews exemple of existing documentation of personnal information on fascist groups, but has i said earlier nothing actually stop some people with bad intention to put the name of some of the people they simply dont like.

seriously, what actually stop some committed people to create a second account, pose has a commited revolutionary, join the antifascist group and put some name of the people he dosnt like in it?

Comrade B

26th August 2009, 02:57

We get the names from Storm Front, typically.
So don't chill with Jeremy The Walrus Nazi and you will be fine.

Lacrimi de Chiciură

26th August 2009, 03:43

I would never advocate tracking someone down and that you found on some list and beating them up or something, but I think people in their community should know if their neighbor is a Nazi, kind of like those flyers they put up when child predators move into a neighborhood.

PC-Basher

26th August 2009, 16:03

i noticed that some lists circulate with the name and adresses of fascists on revleft. I seriously dont care about fascist, but what actually stop people who know me to falsely accuse me of fascism and put my coordonates on that list?

i dont want to be persecuted for something i am not. i wonder if someone ever considered that kind of risk. i am well aware that if my coordonates are left on that list i will receive threatening email and phone call, that some people will throw stuff on my house or that i migt just be beating on my way home.

just to rassure you that so far i havnt been victim of nothing but the possibility that such things might happen worries me.

Same here brother, i too am accused for being a fascist for no particular reason, perhaps my vocal stance agaisnt fascists? It really pissies me off. In facebook on my personal account ive had 2 dickheads call me fascist or a fake account. I dont know, but is my writing style like an illiterate fascist or something? perhaps i'm just to open with my words on the net? to emotional?

Yeah, i am a vehemently antifascist lunatic but ive got people accusing me of fascism, and with cyber antifascist hackers and all, i get scared they might attack their fucking own.:cursing: it pissies me off.

The Feral Underclass

26th August 2009, 16:40

Why are you going out of your way to show us all how anti-fascist you are?

danyboy27

26th August 2009, 17:20

Why are you going out of your way to show us all how anti-fascist you are?

well, fascism ias not a viable ideology, its kinda like a pyramidal scheme, the main coponnent that make it progress is violence, more violence create more violence, and incidentally fascist fight in order to restore social peace, but the fact that they are doing violence to restore peace do nothing but create more violence. in a nutshell, fascism is a shitstorm generator.

Comrade B

26th August 2009, 18:44

I feel no sympathy for Nazis. Their ideology encourages violence and can best be stopped with violence. There is no logic behind the ideology, it is only anger and hate, there is no reasoning with real Nazis.

Bud Struggle

26th August 2009, 20:33

What's next? Communist/Nazi mud wrestling matches?

Why bother with Nazis? It's a dead philosophy.

Ignore them.

Havet

26th August 2009, 20:36

Why bother with Nazis? It's a dead philosophy.

Ignore them.

Oh (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/15/nazi.march/) really (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/5186735/Neo-Nazi-protests-mar-the-opening-of-the-Illinois-Holocaust-Museum-and-Education-Centre-in-Skokie.html?image=3)?

Bud Struggle

26th August 2009, 20:42

Oh (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/15/nazi.march/) really (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/5186735/Neo-Nazi-protests-mar-the-opening-of-the-Illinois-Holocaust-Museum-and-Education-Centre-in-Skokie.html?image=3)?

Yea. They're lunatics. Everybody knows their lunatics and the last thing you need to do is get down in the mud with lunatics.

Havet

26th August 2009, 20:49

Yea. They're lunatics. Everybody knows their lunatics and the last thing you need to do is get down in the mud with lunatics.

What if they constantly seek to get down in the mud with us? Should we not defend ourselves?

Madvillainy

26th August 2009, 20:51

It allows certain members to imagine they are part of a glorious struggle against the fascist hordes at the gates.

Agreed :) It's nothing but a fetish for violence and it's a complete distraction from real class struggle. I swear I think some people really do get a hard on for this kind of crap.

Bud Struggle

26th August 2009, 20:57

What if they constantly seek to get down in the mud with us? Should we not defend ourselves?

Because it's thinking small. The Democrats don't get down in the mud with the CPUSA, the Republicans don't get down in the mud with the Socialist Party. If they HAVE TO acknowledge a world class figure like Ralph Nader, they do. In passing, as a footnote.

You comrades what to "take over the world" then act like it.

Really and truly, you have to let the little stuff go and concentrate on the things that really matter. That's how winners win. Loosers are always bogged down in the details.

Agreed :) It's nothing but a fetish for violence and it's a complete distraction from real class struggle. I swear I think some people really do get a hard on for this kind of crap.

What he said. ^^^

Havet

26th August 2009, 21:03

Because it's thinking small. The Democrats don't get down in the mud with the CPUSA, the Republicans don't get down in the mud with the Socialist Party. If they HAVE TO acknowledge a world class figure like Ralph Nader, they do. In passing, as a footnote.

You comrades what to "take over the world" then act like it.

Really and truly, you have to let the little stuff go and concentrate on the things that really matter. That's how winners win. Loosers are always bogged down in the details.

What the hell are you talking bout?

I'm talking of when Neo-Nazis and that tripe go around neighbourhoods killing colored people, or wanting to start a fight with "race traitors".

Why shouldn't we defend ourselves from people like this?

Also, I don't want to take over the world in the same way many communists do.

I wasn't saying every matter should be discussed by the power of the fist or the shot of a gun. But since neo-nazis only seem to understand that, why shouldn't we use force in self-defense, when they clearly aren't open to arguments?

Bud Struggle

26th August 2009, 21:07

What the hell are you talking bout?

I'm talking of when Neo-Nazis and that tripe go around neighbourhoods killing colored people, or wanting to start a fight with "race traitors".

Why shouldn't we defend ourselves from people like this?

Also, I don't want to take over the world in the same way many communists do.

I wasn't saying every matter should be discussed by the power of the fist or the shot of a gun. But since neo-nazis only seem to understand that, why shouldn't we use force in self-defense, when they clearly aren't open to arguments?

Fair enough. You live in a different place than I do. I have never seen a Nazi in my life. (Or none that I know of.) For me they are an abstraction (and a distraction.)

Maybe they are real to you--it's not for me to judge your world.

My apologies.

Dr Mindbender

26th August 2009, 21:07

Yea. They're lunatics. Everybody knows their lunatics and the last thing you need to do is get down in the mud with lunatics.

''The only thing that could have stopped our party, was if our opponents had recognised their principle from day one and moved forward to crush the nucleus of our new movement'' -Adolf Hitler.

Bud Struggle

26th August 2009, 21:10

''The only thing that could have stopped our party, was if our opponents had recognised their principle from day one and moved forward to crush the nucleus of our new movement'' -Adolf Hitler.

Enjoy! I give up. Get you antifas Tatoos, get into fights, hell, give a Nazi the finger for me.

But your thinking small.

Havet

26th August 2009, 21:11

Fair enough. You live in a different place than I do. I have never seen a Nazi in my life. (Or none that I know of.) For me they are an abstraction (and a distraction.)

Maybe they are real to you--it's not for me to judge your world.

My apologies.

Thank you for recognizing this. I, for moments, wasn't aware that there could be places in the world were this kind of people didn't exist. I suppose you're lucky to not have this kind of people around.

Once again, thanks for the comprehension. And apologies if I were a bit edgy and jumpy on this ^^

Muzk

26th August 2009, 21:23

Everyone you don't know could possibly be a nazi. You can never be sure. But I'm sure they wouldn't run around in their boots and stuff in a neighborhood without other nazis to befriend...

Anyways, I do think the areas they are in depend on the social state and some other factors. If there are many and they meet up, they will surely organize propaganda to get young people into their club.

Bud Struggle

26th August 2009, 22:05

Thank you for recognizing this. I, for moments, wasn't aware that there could be places in the world were this kind of people didn't exist. I suppose you're lucky to not have this kind of people around.

Once again, thanks for the comprehension. And apologies if I were a bit edgy and jumpy on this ^^

Well you may be more right than I am. About 20 miles from my house--across the Intercoastal is the headquarters of StormFront. I've never seen them--they don't do much of anything at all in the community.

But they're there.

PC-Basher

27th August 2009, 12:23

Why are you going out of your way to show us all how anti-fascist you are?

Because we need to actively advocate awareness for anti-fascism to stop the nationalist bastards from destroying our commie movement, let alone general peace in centre politics.

PC-Basher

27th August 2009, 12:28

What's next? Communist/Nazi mud wrestling matches?

Why bother with Nazis? It's a dead philosophy.

Ignore them.

I know man. nazism is dead as dead, but neo-nazism brother. I dont think you understand how disruptive infantile nationalism (especially fascism) and other
infantile sicknesses such as religion (fundamentalist religions in particulare) are detrimental to the left struggle for human unification, and mostly against capitalism.

fiddlesticks

27th August 2009, 13:27

Bud Struggle

27th August 2009, 13:33

Nazis are not dead. There are Nazi neighborhoods down here in Florida, I used to live in one as a small child. They have swastikas tattooed on their necks and generally come with some sort of substance abuse problems. I'm sure they dwell in the nooks and crannies of cities all over the world.

Maybe you're right. Maybe I just haven't been looking. I live in the coast in Florida, whick is rather sophisticated--now that you mention it, there's that rather Redneck interior part of the state where all sorts of stuff goes on that's really part of the Old South.

The Feral Underclass

27th August 2009, 15:07

''The only thing that could have stopped our party, was if our opponents had recognised their principle from day one and moved forward to crush the nucleus of our new movement'' -Adolf Hitler.

Out of interest, could you link me the speech/text in which he said that, or from where you were able to quote it.

RGacky3

27th August 2009, 15:35

Nazis are not dead. There are Nazi neighborhoods down here in Florida, I used to live in one as a small child. They have swastikas tattooed on their necks and generally come with some sort of substance abuse problems. I'm sure they dwell in the nooks and crannies of cities all over the world.

I would'nt really consider those types "nazis" or an actual political force as much as just a criminal street gang, they have those in California too, but really they are just drug dealers.

Rosa Provokateur

29th August 2009, 00:54

and other
infantile sicknesses such as religion (fundamentalist religions in particulare) are detrimental to the left struggle for human unification

Not entirely true. I remember when that guy got beat at the Rainbow Lounge in Ft. Worth, the Cathedral of Hope was on the front-lines with us screaming for justice. A big hand goes to QueerLiberaction (although the Dallas Voice has written about them in a really bad light) but without Cathedral of Hope on our side I dont know if the police would've listened to us as much.

Churches can be amazingly radical, just have to have them involved in the community.

29th August 2009, 02:41

Lol at the people here basically saying, "I'm a white heterosexual male, and I've never had any problems with Nazis, so clearly, they don't exist".
Of course it is far easier to be oblivious to them if you happen to have the privilege of being white and not falling into one of the categories of people they frequently harass. But to suggest based on that limited experience that "Nazis don't exist" is slightly nauseating in its unabashed demonstration of ignorance.

RGacky3

29th August 2009, 23:38

Of course it is far easier to be oblivious to them if you happen to have the privilege of being white and not falling into one of the categories of people they frequently harass. But to suggest based on that limited experience that "Nazis don't exist" is slightly nauseating in its unabashed demonstration of ignorance.

Well, all someone has to go is their personal experience, or what they see, or the media ... soooo.

Rosa Provokateur

30th August 2009, 03:38

Of course it is far easier to be oblivious to them if you happen to have the privilege of being white

Privilege of being white? I wasnt aware that skin-color was a privilege.

Conquer or Die

30th August 2009, 05:39

National Socialists have no traction within the United States. Certain right wing paramilitary organizations have had some success (such as the clan) but that's mostly hot air at this point.

Better groups to conflict with:
Xe Services LLC also known as Blackwater. Crusader ideologists who have no oversight or accountability besides to their profit margins.
Minutemen. Fringe obesoids who hate Mexican people and carry guns.

Radical

30th August 2009, 16:26

I support Black Lists for Fascists/Nazis/Racists.

However there are times when innocent people are added to them and are later persecuted. As-much as I'm against attacking innocent people, It's more important to know the locations of Militant Fascists that pose a threat to the Revolution. The leaked membership of the BNP was a great needed breakthrough for the Left in the UK.

We should increase our attempts to bring fear into the lives that want to discriminate civilians due to a "colour".

danyboy27

30th August 2009, 16:31

We should increase our attempts to bring fear into the lives that want to discriminate civilians due to a "colour".
http://idontliketoread.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/freddy1.jpg
that was scary man

31st August 2009, 00:21

Privilege of being white? I wasnt aware that skin-color was a privilege.

Being white in the US and most other capitalist countries is a 'privilege' in the sense that one is not subjected to institutionalized racism or, in this context, is generally far less likely to be the victim of hate crimes. But we've already had at least two very extensive threads on this topic, so I will not derail the thread discussing it beyond this post.

Rosa Provokateur

31st August 2009, 03:16

I support Black Lists for Fascists/Nazis/Racists.

Fuck that, been black-listed before and it's a pain in the ass that nobody should have to go through. Can cost you your job. Fascist or not, fuckin a guy outta his job is pretty shitty.

Jazzratt

31st August 2009, 03:26

Privilege of being white? I wasnt aware that skin-color was a privilege.
No, I don't imagine you would be.

31st August 2009, 04:24

Fuck that, been black-listed before and it's a pain in the ass that nobody should have to go through. Can cost you your job. Fascist or not, fuckin a guy outta his job is pretty shitty.

Was the crimethinc blacklist? :lol:

Rosa Provokateur

31st August 2009, 04:59

Was the crimethinc blacklist? :lol:

No, I got it for being in the YCL. :glare:

Ele'ill

31st August 2009, 06:07

The hatred towards crimethinc is complete nonsense and I have proven this through debates on here over and over again. You are all bullies. Nobody likes a bully.

Brothers and sisters I think we should all give up politics and write a book about dinosaurs together. We could all pitch in and buy land somewhere. We could live in tree houses and yurts and have a farm and a GIANT garden. We could make our own mead, play some piano- perhaps sing and listen to the crickets bubble the night flat.

31st August 2009, 07:43

Brothers and sisters I think we should all give up politics and write a book about dinosaurs together. We could all pitch in and buy land somewhere. We could live in tree houses and yurts and have a farm and a GIANT garden. We could make our own mead, play some piano- perhaps sing and listen to the crickets bubble the night flat.

http://massappealmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/pothead.jpg

Oy vey...