Are All Business Owners Exploitive?

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Many people here believe that all business owners are exploitive. I'm not sure what I think about that due to the fact that one of the nicest and most generous people I know owns a skate shop. This guy started the shop 20 years ago because skaters in the area didnt have a place to buy skateboards. He was flat broke for the first 10 years of his shop's existence, as he say "If I was in this for the money, I would have quit a long time ago". Judging by his house and his car and the events his shop sponsors, even now that he makes pretty good money, he only keeps enough to provide for himself and his family. Sometimes people who ride on his team, including me, help out around the shop, and he pays us a very good amount of money for our time. He's even a leftist and supports my effort to get involved with the IWW. I guess this guy is part of the "Capitalist class", but I have a hard time looking at him as an oppressor, because I know how much he has contributed to the skate scene and that if it was possible, he would do it for free. So I don't know.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

A business owner cannot choose to stop exploiting workers even if he wanted to. It's not a question of being a good or bad person. Exploitation is not caused by the person, but by the economic relationships involved in running a business. The only way to stop exploiting workers is to stop being a business owner.

To make a comparison, imagine a slave owner who is really nice to his slaves, gives them plenty of food, good clothes, limits their work to 8 hours per day and gives them weekends off. He might be a good person, but he is still engaged in exploitation and oppression, and the only way to stop is by freeing his slaves - by giving up being a slave owner.

Also, take note of another thing: A truly evil businessman who treats his workers badly and exploits them as much as possible will have higher profits. His company will be more successful and more competitive; it will grow and drive out of business the company of the "good" businessman. Therefore, although capitalism doesn't force bosses to treat their workers badly, it rewards bosses who treat their workers badly. And by rewarding that kind of behaviour, it encourages it, and ensures that the most evil people will rise to the top.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Many people here believe that all business owners are exploitive. I'm not sure what I think about that due to the fact that one of the nicest and most generous people I know owns a skate shop. This guy started the shop 20 years ago because skaters in the area didnt have a place to buy skateboards. He was flat broke for the first 10 years of his shop's existence, as he say "If I was in this for the money, I would have quit a long time ago". Judging by his house and his car and the events his shop sponsors, even now that he makes pretty good money, he only keeps enough to provide for himself and his family. Sometimes people who ride on his team, including me, help out around the shop, and he pays us a very good amount of money for our time. He's even a leftist and supports my effort to get involved with the IWW. I guess this guy is part of the "Capitalist class", but I have a hard time looking at him as an oppressor, because I know how much he has contributed to the skate scene and that if it was possible, he would do it for free. So I don't know.

Are all owners of businesses "exploitative"? This really depends on your perspective. Small business owners are typically not out to make loads of profits, and usually start out broke and eventually accumulate enough to just to get by (like the one you mentioned as an example), but some business owners grow large aspirations for turning their businesses into large corporations. For example, McDonalds was a single business in some Southern California town in the beginning, now it is the biggest fast-food corporation in the world. However this hardly ever happens given the economic conditions of monopoly capitalism (but that's for another discussion). Most business owners don't get very far, and end up functioning in their own production as wage-workers do, by working themselves, except they own what they produce. The guy you mentioned isn't particularly "exploitative" in the sense that he does absolutely nothing and is filthy rich, while workers under him do everything and make shit; but still the hiring of a wage laborer on the market and using their (the worker's) labor as a means for making a profit unfortunately is exploitation. No matter how big or small; if the owner of any given means and tools of production profits from the labor of a wage-worker, this is precisely how capitalist exploitation takes route.

Again though, if this guy doesn't really hire anyone persay, but pays the skate team to help out sometimes, then to be honest I'd say hes doing you a favor by giving you the opportunity to work at a job that is possibly in the range of the least exploitative jobs around. My boss is a small franchise owner, and happens to be a family friend; I know where your coming from. I get paid 'fairly', as in I never get jipped out of my pre-determined wage, but I'm not about to say he isn't a capitalist and doesn't use a slight degree of exploitation in his buisness. This is capitalism, and that's how production is carried out. The petit-bourgeoisie happen to be the middle class in our specific stage of said capitalism, and can sway either way; either on the side of the proletariat struggling for socialism or the bourgeoisie struggling to maintain their rule and status quo. It can be said that this middle class is more likely to side with the bourgeoisie, as they may have a stake in maintaining capitalism; but I think this is really subjective and depends on the specific condtions of a given business owner.

[Jimmie Higgins]

It's not that they are personally exploitative or mean people - but in order to make a profit, you need to use exploitation: you need to use labor to make items or services gain value. A small shop owner or worker commune doesn't "exploit" labor in the same way as a massive employer does - but essentially they are exploiting their own labor.

The desire that people have for being self-employed in the US I think is a pretty good indicator of how much workers resent the arrangement of work under capitalism.

[F9]

We should totally separate the personality, and the persons kindness from economical and political "measurements".. They are totally different things, with really few links, so we shouldnt mix them up and make conclusions.

Employers, and all business owners place is from itself exploitive, and what the person in that place character is,dont plays much point to that.The owner may treat you better than others, may treat you better than anyone else in the world, but still he is taking advantage from you, and your labor, and in fact today work turned more like a "legal" slave thing, where bosses own the workers and decide their life..

So yeah we dont say that because s/he is a business owner he is bad person etc etc, s/he can be a kind person pretty well, and i have met plenty of those.But we should never forget that capitalism exploitation is hidden not just behind the "bad" things, but also behind "good" ones.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I'm guess what I'm trying to say is that not all business owners are evil and I don't support needless violence against business owners like the guy who owns the skate shop in my town or whatever, especially since some of them would support our cause and do it for free if possible.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm guess what I'm trying to say is that not all business owners are evil and I don't support needless violence against business owners like the guy who owns the skate shop in my town or whatever, especially since some of them would support our cause and do it for free if possible.

Well marxists tend to see small business owners as petite-bourgeois and so they are not the ruling class and have historically had to side either with the capitalists or with the workers during massive class conflicts.

I try to develop good relationships with local small businesses (workers or even managers) so they will let me put up fliers or even organize a meeting in their shop. I don't think radicals can get very far if they identify the main enemy as the guy who owns a local barber shop or nail salon.

If there was a revolution, the working class would need to convince these small shop-owners that society run by workers would be better than the current society as run by the capitalists. So I would argue for workers to abolish wage-slavery after the revolution but allow small shop-owners to retain control over their main store. If they had many stores or employed many people, then they would either have to allow the workers to become full partners with equal control of the workplace or work it alone.

Some will undoubtedly turn against the worker's movement and become reactionaries or even fascists, but others can be won over to our side - so they shouldn't be totally written off. We just need to be clear that their class interests are different than workers.

Capitalism has already eliminated most small businesses and single-family shops anyway, so it wouldn't be a big enough part of the economy to hurt working class rule. Workers probably wouldn't allow businesses to be passed down generationally - creating some kind of permanent quazi-class; but I'm sure not having to pay rents to landlords would make most small shop owners happy with worker's rule.

[F9]

I'm guess what I'm trying to say is that not all business owners are evil and I don't support needless violence against business owners like the guy who owns the skate shop in my town or whatever, especially since some of them would support our cause and do it for free if possible.

Revolution is violence because we defending the revolution from violent actions.So the only way to fight back will be threw violence.
So no, we wont attack those who are not harming us.We are revolting to kill people, but for a better life, for freedom, and equality..

[JJM 777]

Many people start a business simply because they are unemployed and the times are tough. The current economical crisis has lead to sharp rise in new started small companies, as people who lost their jobs try to make a living somehow.

Once I rented a trailer to haul some furniture to my new home. I paid the day's rent in advance, it was 25 euros. As I returned the trailer in the evening not much before midnight, the rental owner came out on the backyard and gave 10 euros back to me, "as I had rented the trailer for 24 hours but I didn't use the last 8 hours". I bet the guy was deeply religious, and such unusual conscientiousness in small business matters had some religious purpose for him.