Animal Farm - What was Orwell's message?

[j]

What do you think Orwell's true message in Animal Farm was? Did he believe that socialism is not a possibility or was it just a description of how it was perverted under Stalin? Do you think he believed that socialism was possible if it was not perverted as with Stalin?

j

[Kev]

i think it was a satire on the Stalin empire, not exactly a critique of socialism oir a "this would have been better if" idea. If you read it in conjuction with "1984", he appears very critical of any institution that seeks to govern human behaviour through rules and conformity...so socialism probably wasn't for him

[Conghaileach]

I think that he describes how the revolution was twisted and warped until it became the same as capitalism.

[ComradeJunichi]

Yeah, I think Orwell is criticizing Stalin's empire not Socialism.

But I have a question about 1984...What is it critizing Fascism/totalitarianism or is it critizing that Socialism is the same as totalitarianism?

[Maaja]

I think too that 1984 was about Capitalism not communism as most of the people may think. And Orwell was a socialist. In Animal Farm he critizised USSR not communism.

[timbaly]

I believe Animal Farm showed that when many gain power they often don't do what they intended to do and they change their beliefs to gain privelages over the common citizen

[Anonymous]

I believe hes condemning blind faith and ignorance, at least partly.

[Michael De Panama]

Orwell, the democratic socialist, was saying that Stalin is no better than the czars of Russia's past.

[Xvall]

Animal Farm is agaisnt Authoritarian Communism. 1984 is against Totalitarian Regimes. 1984 also resembles Amerika. Glad you're back Majaa!

[j]

Orwell was a socialist? Any source on that?

I'm not saying he wasn't but the great amount of literary critisism surrounding Animal Farm proclaims the book to be anti-socialist. Or am I just falling into cappie traps?

j

[Xvall]

Capi Traps. He said himself he was a Socialist. It's even in the first page of this 1984 book I have!

[Chameleon102]

Orwell believed that Stalin betrayed and corrupted the revolution set forth by Lenin. At the end of Lenin's life, the NEP was starting to transform the USSR into a workable nation...things weren't perfect but they were getting better.

Stalin was just Hitler in red.

[Napalm Dust]

Quote: from j on 1:01 am on July 19, 2002
Orwell was a socialist? Any source on that?




Orwell fought for socialism in the Spanish Civil war. Read his autobiographical "Homage To Catalonia"
Definately his best peice of writing.

[andresG]

Animal Farm gave an example of a revolution gone terribly wrong. The leaders of the revolution became just like the leaders they had overthrown. (At the end of the book you couldn't tell the difference between the pigs and the humans).

Napoleon was the equivalent of Stalin.
Snowball was the equivalent of Trotsky.

[Nic8]

Orwell was a socialist but was anti-soviet. Orwell was also very individualistic. He believed that socialism was the best way for people to express there individuality (it is hard to be a free thinking individual when you bairly have enouch money to survive). He was anti-soviet because the Soviet Union, being a totalitarian regime, tried to smash individuality and force people into conformity.
Animal farm was a critique of sovietism, not socialism as the capitalists want you to beilieve. 1984 was a critique of tatalitarianism in general, not the USSR, as the capitalists want you to believe.

[canikickit]

Animal Farm was about how much of a mess the world is. It said people are idiots and assholes and its spot on. I don't really understand, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....

[The Red Cheese]

this is a wonderful book. "four legs good, two legs bad". great book and made me laugh, and it shows how terrible the revolution for them went. Old major, who would he be the equvilant to? some philosoher? well it shows that napoleon is the real traitor not snowball, and how he got all the power by lying to the animals. he also changed things while the revolution went on, for example, when murial read the 4th conmadment it was suppose to say; no animal should sleep on a bed, but napoleon changed it to , no animal should sleep on a bed with sheets.

[Anonymous]

bah!!! no he meaned that pigs were bad socialists! heheheeh and ducks die too easily, and that animals cant live under socialism heheheheeheh

[Conghaileach]

I haven;t read the book in a while, but I believe that Old Major represents Lenin. I'm pretty sure it's Lenin, though it could also be Marx. I'll have to read it again sometime.

[j]

I did a little research and found the following to be the analogies in Animal Farm:

Mr. Jones: Czar Nicholas II

Old Major: Karl Marx

Napolean: Stalin

Squealer: The Pravda--the Russian Newspaper

Snowball: Trotsky

the Dogs: the KGB or Stalin's bodyguards

Boxer: the Proletariate

Pigs: Stalin loyalists/ Stalinists

j

[Anonymous]

i have to read that book again! i read it when i was 12!

[The Red Cheese]

who was Czar Nicholas II? whats the KGB?

[andresG]

Czar Nicholas II was the last Czar of Russia who ruled from 1894 to 1917. He was overthrown when the Revolution triumphed.

The KGB was a government agency of the Soviet Union that operated a secret police force and gathered political and military information from other countries. There main function was to put down any opposition to the government.

[canikickit]

yeah all those analogies are quite obvious, ha, ha, ha, ha.(ha)

[sypher]

well if you think of snowball as trotsky and napolean as Stalin than I believe it was showing how the USSR went wrong and how curupt it became.

As for 1984, I think it was about all Totalitarian (sp) governments. whether it was communist, capitalist or nazi

[anti machine]

Orwell WAS a socialist, as stated in his biographical blurb in his books

[Anonymous]

"Mr. Jones: Czar Nicholas II

Old Major: Karl Marx

Napolean: Stalin

Squealer: The Pravda--the Russian Newspaper

Snowball: Trotsky

the Dogs: the KGB or Stalin's bodyguards

Boxer: the Proletariate

Pigs: Stalin loyalists/ Stalinists"


Hey Eric Arthur (the real name of George Orwell) forgot to make Lenin! i think snowball makes two roles, like trotsky and lenin, since he comanded the troops in the first batle! (that would be in this case the revolutionar war) and the second war the animals fought was WWII (i guess!) also:


Frederick-hitler

animals of england- La international

Willingdon- i dont know who he represents but i am sure he represents someone or something

Sr. Pilkington- USA (since he allied with him, but in the end he started to fight with him, representing the cold war!)

Feel free to correct me!

[anti machine]

For once the anarchist is pretty right-on...never thought id say that. Oh well, a stopped clock is right twice a day too. I think there is a little bit of Lenin in both snowball and Old Major. This book is strictly a satirical critisism of Stalin. Orwell seems to be in favor of Snowball, showing the inevitable downfall of a regime when led by a tryrannical opressor. Animal Farm would have flourished under Snowball, the world would have been liberated by the animals. This was Orwell's point.

Oh, haha, anarchist, by the way Orwell's name was Eric Blair you dumbshit.

[Anonymous]

By just a mere mather of fact his name was Eric ARTHUR Blair! so neither of us is wrong! :biggrin:

See what apens when you jump on cunclusions?

[Moskitto]

I think Willingdon is Britain because he doesn't like Frederick very much.

[anti machine]

Benjamin=Orwell.

[Valkyrie]

Book online.
http://www.ddc.net/ygg/etext/animal.htm

[BOZG]

For anyone interested, download Dead Prez's track called "Animal In Man" which is a variation of Animal Farm.

[ravengod]

definitely about possible ways of inputing socialism into world's political structure
he believed in socialism for sure
read other orwell articles
especially How to shoot an elephant!
will realise that socialism is far from being thought of as perfect only in theory
we only need a great leader
Che Guevara forever

[anti machine]

I've explained this numerous times to people who don't look into the book at all and classify it as "anti-communist". Orwell himself was a socialist, and he was condemning Stalin's Russia. He upholds Snowball (Trotsky) and Old Major (Marx/Lenin), and the question that Orwell offers is: What would Animal Farm have been like had Snowball assumed control? The answer, as I think Orwell intended, is that the farm would have flourished and revolutionary seeds would have been spread throughout the land, causing a mass animal insurrection. People don't seem to get the point of the book, that the pigs became captitalist, Machiavellan hypocrits under Napolean.

[Lefty]

the message i get whenever i read Animal Farm is that revolution can be perverted until it is what it was revolting against. Then it is time for more revolution.

[hawarameen]

the message of animal farm was simple it was that absolute power corrupts absolutely