I.W.W. in Sweden?

[Frank Little]

?

[Pogue]

The IWW wont really have a need to exist or have a presence in sweden as the SAC is an anarcho-syndicalist organisation in that country, it is veyr large and quite active. The IWW in Britain would see this organisation as one with similar aims to us and I know IWW members who have done work with them. Really good organisation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_Arbetares_Centralorganisation

[Pogue]

I know, but why in there have been IWW branches:confused:

I wouldn't know really. They might have been formed by IWW members who moved there or people who were unhappy with the SAC. I've heard the SAC are quite good so I don't really see a reason for WOb activity there, and if I lived in Sweden I'd be active in the SAC.

[genstrike]

It's the Industrial Workers of the World. There are currently branches and members in several European countries, as well as Canada and Australia. Why wouldn't there be branches in Sweden?

[Pogue]

It's the Industrial Workers of the World. There are currently branches and members in several European countries, as well as Canada and Australia. Why wouldn't there be branches in Sweden?

Because the SAC is widespread over there with a larger tradition meaning there is no real need for a Wob presence, same as how in Spain there is the CNT. Theres no need to form a syndicalist organisation in anarea theres already one.

[Absolut]

Ive never heard of the IWW being active in Sweden. Either way, I tried googling it, but theres really not much information anywhere. All I could find was some Swedish socialist forum where theres a line or two about the IWW in Sweden.

Apparently, they had a working union in Sweden during the 1920-30s, where they mostly organised sailors working on boats trafficing Mälaren in and around Stockholm, after that they were only active in periods, up until the 1970s. However, the activity after the 30's were limited to holding meetings, apparently they didnt organise any workers and didnt do any work outside of that. I assume they havent had any kind of organisation or members in Sweden after the 70s.

I do also believe theres some confusion as to what role the IWW actually had in Sweden and how big/relevant they actually were. Take for example the Joe Hill House (the house where he was born), owned by the SAC and operated as a museum. I found one page where it says that the house is actually owned by the IWW (this isnt true).

A few lines of info on the IWW (although nothing verifiable) in Swedish. (http://www.socialism.nu/showthread.php?t=1395)

Hope it helps. :)

[genstrike]

Because the SAC is widespread over there with a larger tradition meaning there is no real need for a Wob presence, same as how in Spain there is the CNT. Theres no need to form a syndicalist organisation in anarea theres already one.

I don't know if I completely agree with that logic, the way I see it, as long as the IWW and local syndicalist unions aren't raiding each other, there's plenty of room for both of us in any country - right now we have wobs coexisting with the FAU in Germany. If some workers in any country regardless of existing syndicalist movements want to join the IWW, I wouldn't turn them away, especially in industries that cut across national lines such as shipping and rail.

[Absolut]

I don't know if I completely agree with that logic, the way I see it, as long as the IWW and local syndicalist unions aren't raiding each other, there's plenty of room for both of us in any country - right now we have wobs coexisting with the FAU in Germany. If some workers in any country regardless of existing syndicalist movements want to join the IWW, I wouldn't turn them away, especially in industries that cut across national lines such as shipping and rail.

I partly agree.

If someone really insists on joining the IWW (or starting a branch), despite them not having a presence in the country, I wouldnt turn them away, but I would definately advice them to first contact their local syndicalist union, as they probably have more knowledge on the local conditions than the IWW, and are probably more well-established than the IWW, which would make it a lot easier on the worker wanting to join.

[Pogue]

I don't know if I completely agree with that logic, the way I see it, as long as the IWW and local syndicalist unions aren't raiding each other, there's plenty of room for both of us in any country - right now we have wobs coexisting with the FAU in Germany. If some workers in any country regardless of existing syndicalist movements want to join the IWW, I wouldn't turn them away, especially in industries that cut across national lines such as shipping and rail.

Why would we want two organisations in one region with the same aims? Amongst the syndicalist unions there is cooperation internationally, we all know who each other and in some cases we have dual membership (I am a member of the Polish group Worker's Initiative). I don't see why a syndicalist in Sweden would want to start up a wob presence when the SAC is already established. I don't think there is a need or a point.

[Devrim]

I wouldn't know really. They might have been formed by IWW members who moved there or people who were unhappy with the SAC. I've heard the SAC are quite good so I don't really see a reason for WOb activity there, and if I lived in Sweden I'd be active in the SAC.

The anarcho-syndicalist AIT views the SAC as reformist:


It was also a founding member of the anarcho-syndicalist International Workers Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers_Association), but came into conflict with the IWA in the 1950s when SAC entered into a state-supported unemployment fund, which the IWA regarded as state collaboration and reformist. In 1956, the SAC withdrew from the IWA.

I don't know all of the details, but the SAC seems to have sided with the opponents of the AIT section in Spain in their splits and is often harshly criticised by the AIT sections internationally.

Devrim

[The Ungovernable Farce]

I don't know if I completely agree with that logic, the way I see it, as long as the IWW and local syndicalist unions aren't raiding each other, there's plenty of room for both of us in any country - right now we have wobs coexisting with the FAU in Germany. If some workers in any country regardless of existing syndicalist movements want to join the IWW, I wouldn't turn them away, especially in industries that cut across national lines such as shipping and rail.
Two Big Unions! :lol:

[genstrike]

Two Big Unions! :lol:

Ah, you must be referring to the WIIU. Oh wait, you said Big Unions, never mind :lol:

But seriously, that's not necessarily a bad thing, if we are able to affiliate (as we did with the CNT during the Spanish Civil War, IIRC) or have the ability to act as One Big Union when it matters

And really, expanding into a country like Germany isn't really changing anything - there's still the same number of unions in question, it is just that one of them doesn't care for national borders. That's just something that is bound to happen when trying to form a worldwide organization - as we expand, we're bound to run into local unions with similar politics, and as long as we aren't raiding each other or any other stupid shit, it shouldn't be a problem.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

It still seems a bit pointless to me, but yeah, as long as you don't actually end up with wobs scabbing on SAC/FAU strikes or vice versa then I can't see any real harm in it.

[Absolut]

The anarcho-syndicalist AIT views the SAC as reformist:

I don't know all of the details, but the SAC seems to have sided with the opponents of the AIT section in Spain in their splits and is often harshly criticised by the AIT sections internationally.

Devrim

I dont think its fair to label the SAC as reformist, but the SAC certainly deserves the criticism from the AIT concerning the entry into a state-supported unemployment fund and the founding of a syndicalist party, which I thought was the reason they left the IWA.

Im not that well-informed on the history of the SAC, but from what Ive been told, the SAC went into some sort of "reformist" period a little bit later as well, under the leadership of Ahto Uisk. Im not really sure if thats happening again, but if you consider the articles in Arbetaren (SACs weekly paper), youll see self-proclaimed anarchists supporting the Social Democrats in the election 2010 and so on.

Libertarian Municipal People (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Municipal_People)

My point, which I realise may not be all that clear, is that theres a lot to critize when it comes to the SAC, and theres a hell of a lot to improve.

[Devrim]

I dont think its fair to label the SAC as reformist,

It is not my position. It is the AIT's. I think that a revolutionary union is a contradiction in terms anyway.

Devrim

[Absolut]

It is not my position. It is the AIT's. I think that a revolutionary union is a contradiction in terms anyway.

Devrim

Be that as it may, I still dont think its fair. :)

[eyedrop]

It is not my position. It is the AIT's. I think that a revolutionary union is a contradiction in terms anyway.

Devrim

Sorry about the off-topicness.

As I read this I got curious about what ICC's position is on recidenses (neighbourhhood) councils? Part of my city has one such and it seems perfectly capable of cooperating and making deals with the state. (A small free city like Christiania, called Svartlamoen.)

[svenne]

"Arbetaren" Isn't really the SACs official paper but a papper that's financed by SAC, while NOT being bound to say what SAC says. A pretty bad magazine by the way, in Sweden we usually call it "Miljöarbetaren" because of their strong involvement in the enviromental movement.


While SAC indeed has had a reformist time, it's been radicalized the last ten years, and is today a militant union which organizes lot's of workers without papers. But it's not too big in other places.

[Devrim]

Sorry about the off-topicness.

As I read this I got curious about what ICC's position is on recidenses (neighbourhhood) councils? Part of my city has one such and it seems perfectly capable of cooperating and making deals with the state. (A small free city like Christiania, called Svartlamoen.)

I am not sure what you mean by 'neighbourhood council'. Can you explain?

Devrim

[Forward Union]

there were some IWW members in sweden, maybe branches but they never really organised from what I imagine. They would have been sucked into the SAC at any rate.

There are IWW members in sweden though, like myself! but also some americans who have made it this far.

I can try and find out more for you if you want.

[Forward Union]

The anarcho-syndicalist AIT views the SAC as reformist:

Someone made some stupid shit up? I just can't believe it.

[Devrim]

Someone made some stupid shit up? I just can't believe it.

Are you suggesting that I made this up?

It is quite well known that the AIT are deeply hostile to the slits from the CNT in Spain and France, and that the SAC have tried to organize internationally with these groups.

If you think I am making this up, I would suggest you find out what you are talking about.

Devrim

[Forward Union]

Are you suggesting that I made this up?

It is quite well known that the AIT are deeply hostile to the slits from the CNT in Spain and France, and that the SAC have tried to organize internationally with these groups.

If you think I am making this up, I would suggest you find out what you are talking about.

Devrim

no im claining that they are not reformist

[eyedrop]

I am not sure what you mean by 'neighbourhood council'. Can you explain?

Devrim

As I've never been very much involved with them myself (waiting lists to be allowed to live there) I don't know too much about the inner organisation of it, but as far as I understand it is a kind of community council which governs it.


Svartlamon Beboerforening ble stifta i 1991. I tillegg til åvære Svartlamons kamporgan mot riving har beboerforeninga også fungert som et felles organ mellom beboerne. Beboerforeningabestår i all hovedsak av beboermøtene som arrangeres en gang i måneden.Beboermøtene og beboerforeninga har en flat struktur, hvor alle som borog engasjerer seg i området har lik møte-, tale-, og medbestemmelsesrett. Beboermøtettilstreber å oppnå konsensus i avgjørelser som tas.


"Svartlamon Habitantorganisation was founded in 1991. In addition to being Svartlamons fightingorgan against demoloshing it has also functioned as a common organ for the inhabitants. The habitantsorganisation is mainly consisting of the habitantsmeetings which is arranged each month. The habitantsmeetings and the habitantsorganisations has a flat structure where everyone who lives and engages in the area has an equal meeting-, speaking and codecisionright. The habitantsmeeting strives to achieve consensus in decisions."

Basically they decide what the area should work for and how they should organise.


I'm wondering what left communists think about community councils as an organ for political power.