an official international language

[danyboy27]

i think an international mean of communication could be a good thing.
i dont think people should all speak only 1 language but if every human on hearth would have a basic understanding of a particular language it would be much easier to work together.

i personally think english is a good one, relatively simple, easy to learn.

[New Tet]

It's been tried. It's called Esperanto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto).

[Jack]

Tet beat me to it, when I head up to Uni, I'm probably going to get a professor who's a famous Esperantist. I figuire if I learn it then I'll ace his class :P.

On my list to learn are Spanish, French, Arabic, Mandarin, and German.

[Kukulofori]

I favour Esperanto, but as a way to counter the linguistic imperialism of the western european languages moreso than as a means of international communication.

[9]

To hell with Esperanto, the official international language should be Yiddish. Besides, you don't really even have to learn Yiddish - the words all sound like what they mean. :)
Plus, it would be my secret personal revenge against Israel, so you should support it solely on the basis of respect for the neurotic nature of my motive.

[RGacky3]

Its called, english, be default, simply because of the huge economic power the united States has.

[LOLseph Stalin]

On my list to learn are Spanish, French, Arabic, Mandarin, and German.

All of which are major world languages so are helpful to know. Thankfully I already have German down. Personally I think you should learn Spanish first as I'm pretty sure it's spoken in the largest amount of countries out of the ones you've listed.

[Havet]

I'd prefer Lojban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban) anyday to esperanto. At least it takes care of all the other logical errors every other language has. Lojban is like the most scientific language ever, and was specifically designed to be unambiguous.

Lojban (pronounced [ˈloʒban] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA)) is a constructed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructed_language), syntactically unambiguous human language based on predicate logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic). Its predecessor is Loglan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loglan), the original logical language by James Cooke Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cooke_Brown).

Examples of its ownage:



English: Several small fires were burning in the house.



Lojban: so'i cmalu fagri puca'o jelca ne'i le zdani



Gloss: many small fire past-continuing burn inside the house (Translation after English)

I wouldn't like if this were forced upon other people though. I think that if it really works, it will naturally replace english and other languages in some sectors where ambiguousity is not desired.

[trivas7]

Disvastigu la Esperantan lingvon!

[danyboy27]

i support english has an international mainly beccause its less harsh to learn than lets say chinese or arabic.

[Slapstiq]

Less harsh for you. What about for Arabic or Chinese speakers?

[Sarah Palin]

i personally think english is a good one, relatively simple, easy to learn.

English is most definitely not relatively simple, easy to learn. French or any other romance language is pretty easy. But I'm in favor of Esperanto. Just gotta learn to speak it first. If you can speak a romance language, then you can read Esperanto with relative ease.

[AntifaAustralia]

I think having one language to incorporate into a communist united culture would fit marvelously in communist Utopia 500 years away.

Trying to eradicate lanuage differences is going to be extremely difficult. i know 3 languages, and after studying japanese at school, i couldn't believe how hard it was.

esperanto, probably is going to fail, as a fully grown adult i cannot change language that easily.haha. give it to the kids. but first you need esperanto teachers! sigh



i personally think english is a good one, relatively simple, easy to learn.

Simple? easy to learn? mate more like the opposite, english is one of the hardest. English phonetics are so off, unlike Italian or korean writing where they are much similar to pronunciation. eg. live or live? (verb or adjective, pronunication is different) marijuana, silent or replace j with y


i support english has an international mainly beccause its less harsh to learn than lets say chinese or arabic.

dont think arabic is that hard; chinese is crazy, different characters for every different word, omg insanity.

You prefer english because you already learnt it. The only reason why English is used is because of British colonialism. and the worlds most richest NATION IS .....da da.... the united states of america.

Damn , i'm using an imperialist's language. shit. hypocrisy. and i'm a marxist

[Jack]

All of which are major world languages so are helpful to know. Thankfully I already have German down. Personally I think you should learn Spanish first as I'm pretty sure it's spoken in the largest amount of countries out of the ones you've listed.

I listed them in the order I planned on learning them :cool:. I should also throw Haitian Creole in there, but it's basically French mixed with some Spanish and English and poorly spelled.

[danyboy27]

i speak natively french and i have to say that its a fucking complicated language. its beautiful, it sound good, but we got ton of rules and exceptions, its just insane.

where i live, language have the verry convinient purpose of a berlin wall. french isolated us from the rest of canada, a massive media survey even discovered that we where the worst news consumer in north america in term of international news.

the only place in quebec where there is a reasonable amount of english/french speaking folks is located in montreal.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Lets face it , if their ever is chances are its going to be English or Chinese.

[AntifaAustralia]

Lets face it , if their ever is chances are its going to be English or Chinese.

you mean american english, and mandarin, hahaha, i wouldn't mind spelling Gaol as Jail. Mandarin, ni-how-ma.

Of all the languages, why the hard ones.

There is a good thing about multiple languages: Translaters/interpreters, it provides some form of employment (although time consuming, and un-efficient).

[danyboy27]

you mean american english, and mandarin, hahaha, i wouldn't mind spelling Gaol as Jail. Mandarin, ni-how-ma.

Of all the languages, why the hard ones.

There is a good thing about multiple languages: Translaters/interpreters, it provides some form of employment (although time consuming, and un-efficient).

beccause to be functionnal in french you need more word. you can be functionnal in english with a verry limited number of words.

its really easy for someone who dosnt know french to make a big mistake if he dont have enough vocabulary.

i had several conversation with chinese born immigrants and it was way more easy to communicate in english than in french.

[LOLseph Stalin]

i speak natively french and i have to say that its a fucking complicated language. its beautiful, it sound good, but we got ton of rules and exceptions, its just insane.

That's why I say go for German. It's quite simplistic to learn. The rules are very direct and there's rarely any major exceptions to them.

[revolution inaction]

Mandarin ni-how-ma.


no i try to learn but i never remember to practice :(

[Blackscare]

Spanish is easy as shit, from what I'm told. I've heard that English is quite difficult to learn, again from what I am told.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Spanish is easy as shit, from what I'm told. I've heard that English is quite difficult to learn, again from what I am told.

I have been told that too, that English is one of the most difficult languages to learn. I can believe that. I had a hell of a time trying to learn French so Spanish would probably give me similar difficulties as the two are related. Most Asian languages look difficult, especially Chinese, Japanese, and others that use different characters.

[danyboy27]

That's why I say go for German. It's quite simplistic to learn. The rules are very direct and there's rarely any major exceptions to them.

but the pronounciation sound tricky, then again that why i said english was the way to go. i got hard time understanding foreigner speaking french, but i rarely got issues with foreigner speaking english.

spanish sould like a good idea too, but still, i havnt learned nothing about that language.

[LOLseph Stalin]

but the pronounciation sound tricky, then again that why i said english was the way to go. i got hard time understanding foreigner speaking french, but i rarely got issues with foreigner speaking english.

spanish sould like a good idea too, but still, i havnt learned nothing about that language.

Actually, once you know all the basic pronounciation rules the words are generally pronounced the way they look. It's a very phoentic language. It's quite nice.

[ls]

Spanish or Mandarin.

[danyboy27]

Actually, once you know all the basic pronounciation rules the words are generally pronounced the way they look. It's a very phoentic language. It's quite nice.

dude, you should become a car salesman.

[LOLseph Stalin]

dude, you should become a car salesman.

:laugh:

[political_animal]

My question would be, why do we need ONE language? What is wrong with having many different languages, representing the varied culture, experience and history of everyone around the world? The world would be a very boring place if we all spoke one language.

The thing is though, it would never work anyway. Language is a very liquid entity, it changes rapidly over time, new words are added and other words become out of use. Even within people who use the same language, there are often regional dialects and accents. I can't speak for other countries, but certainly within the UK, there is a huge amount of difference in the English spoken in London as opposed to Cornwall, Glasgow, Cardiff, Lancashire, Birmingham, Newcastle, Liverpool etc. It is sometimes even difficult to have a full understanding of people supposedly talking the same language.

Let's stick to the varied languages we have, but ensure that we keep such differences as a positive thing and not something used in a divisive way. We should be promoting colourful variety not a dull grey conformity of one language/culture.

[Jack]

Yes, but if I want to go to Portugal, Russia, and Albania, it would be alot easier to already know the language instead of having to learn each of those before visiting. It's a universal second language, not first.

[danyboy27]

My question would be, why do we need ONE language? What is wrong with having many different languages, representing the varied culture, experience and history of everyone around the world? The world would be a very boring place if we all spoke one language.

The thing is though, it would never work anyway. Language is a very liquid entity, it changes rapidly over time, new words are added and other words become out of use. Even within people who use the same language, there are often regional dialects and accents. I can't speak for other countries, but certainly within the UK, there is a huge amount of difference in the English spoken in London as opposed to Cornwall, Glasgow, Cardiff, Lancashire, Birmingham, Newcastle, Liverpool etc. It is sometimes even difficult to have a full understanding of people supposedly talking the same language.

Let's stick to the varied languages we have, but ensure that we keep such differences as a positive thing and not something used in a divisive way. We should be promoting colourful variety not a dull grey conformity of one language/culture.

nothing wrong with multiple languages, but in addition of their native tongues an international language would benefit to everyone.

[Bud Struggle]

Well, I've traveled quite a bit and English is understood almost universally by anyone doing any business whatsoever. From Cuba to Shanghi to Moscow to Rio.

The only place I was not understood speaking English was Scotland.

[LOLseph Stalin]

The only place I was not understood speaking English was Scotland.

Seriously? Oh the irony. :laugh:

[Manifesto]

Damn, I was going to make a thread about this soon. Anyways, since English and Spanish are the most widely known it should be one of the two personally I think Spanish should be it.

[RotStern]

ATTENTION THOSE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE: Your language is by far not the most difficult. the most difficult are. Russian and German. Not sure about the Asian languages.

[LOLseph Stalin]

ATTENTION THOSE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE: Your language is by far not the most difficult. the most difficult are. Russian and German. Not sure about the Asian languages.

German? You have to be fucking kidding me. I just spent like half a page going on about how it's the simplest language ever. Oh well. I guess it all goes down to personal preference. Some languages are just easier for some people than others. Keeping that in mind, I think one International language could complicate things more as different people seem to pick up different languages easier. For example, Spanish as the International language may seem like a good idea to some, but for others it'll be difficult to learn. How most people manage to learn English absolutely puzzles me.

[yuon]

I'd prefer Lojban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban) anyday to esperanto. At least it takes care of all the other logical errors every other language has. Lojban is like the most scientific language ever, and was specifically designed to be unambiguous.
.
.
.
I wouldn't like if this were forced upon other people though. I think that if it really works, it will naturally replace english and other languages in some sectors where ambiguousity is not desired.
"Yeah, but it would all be with the sort of people who learn Lojban (http://xkcd.com/191/)"

English is most definitely not relatively simple, easy to learn. French or any other romance language is pretty easy. But I'm in favor of Esperanto. Just gotta learn to speak it first. If you can speak a romance language, then you can read Esperanto with relative ease.
I was under the impression that Esperanto had a large Slavic influence to it (Wikipedia agrees, "The phonemic inventory is essentially Slavic, as is much of the semantics ...", but it does have a Romance influence as well. Etc.)


i speak natively french and i have to say that its a fucking complicated language. its beautiful, it sound good, but we got ton of rules and exceptions, its just insane.
I hate French.


That's why I say go for German. It's quite simplistic to learn. The rules are very direct and there's rarely any major exceptions to them.
Ever tried to learn Swedish? Nicest language I've ever tried to learn.

(I suspect that anyone who knew me, and who read this post, would link this account with who I am. Heh.)

[Havet]

"Yeah, but it would all be with the sort of people who learn Lojban (http://xkcd.com/191/)"



I'm sorry, but I honestly don't understand the joke :(

Lojban is by no means an intent to become an international language, merely to improve communication in areas where unambiguity and logic are necessary and extremely important, like science for instance.

[AntifaAustralia]

ATTENTION THOSE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE: Your language is by far not the most difficult. the most difficult are. Russian and German. Not sure about the Asian languages.

guten tag, good morning/greetings

People are saying that german is easy. I love to watch inspector rex, austrian.

arabic has a wierd writing style, korean has a very wierd character style. people say filipino is easy, tagalog. apparently it's combined with many languages, english, spanish, indian....

[danyboy27]

ATTENTION THOSE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE: Your language is by far not the most difficult. the most difficult are. Russian and German. Not sure about the Asian languages.

english is not my first language and personally i think it is less complicated than french, my native language.

if you guy think i do a lot of mistakes in english you would be stunned how dramatic it is when i am writting in french.

[Havet]

guten tag, good morning/greetings

People are saying that german is easy. I love to watch inspector rex, austrian.

arabic has a wierd writing style, korean has a very wierd character style. people say filipino is easy, tagalog. apparently it's combined with many languages, english, spanish, indian....

Guten tag = good afternoon

Guten morgen = good morning

Guten abend = good night

just thought i'd clear that up (and i'm not german, nor do I know german)

[NecroCommie]

English language holds this position already to some degree. It's called lingua franca and I think that every people indeed should learn at least the basics of english.

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

There should certainly be an official auxiliary language, but I think it should be a constructed language that has no native speakers rather than an existing one. An international language should be free from connections to countries, politics, cultures and bias. It should be as neutral as possible. If we choose an existing language like Spanish then there'll be all kinds of baggage that'll come with the decision and some people may be reluctant to learn it.

I hate the fact that English seems to be the dominant language. It's definitely not easy to learn, the only reason why so many people speak English is because it's seen as necessary if they want to succeed academically or in the financial (ie capitalistic) world. It is a product of imperialism, Americanization, globalization and capitalism and should be stopped from spreading further around the globe. The only reason Mandarin is now seen as a ''useful'' language is because China is growing economically.

[narcomprom]

German? You have to be fucking kidding me. I just spent like half a page going on about how it's the simplest language ever. Oh well. I guess it all goes down to personal preference. Some languages are just easier for some people than others. Keeping that in mind, I think one International language could complicate things more as different people seem to pick up different languages easier. For example, Spanish as the International language may seem like a good idea to some, but for others it'll be difficult to learn. How most people manage to learn English absolutely puzzles me.
Sind Sie sich darúber, dass das Deutsche eine absonderlich leichte Sprache ist, vollends sicher?
Are you to yourself about that, that the German language especially easy is, entire sure?

I swear to god I'd prefer getting locked up in an insane asylum to having to learn the High German yodalike sentence structure again. Apikoros named a fine alternative: Yiddish.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

English is most definitely not relatively simple, easy to learn. French or any other romance language is pretty easy. But I'm in favor of Esperanto. Just gotta learn to speak it first. If you can speak a romance language, then you can read Esperanto with relative ease.

English is much simpler than romance languages, imvho
I'm fluent in Portuguese and English and can read in Spanish and French
and English is by far the simplest of those
and easiest for non native speakers to learn

[danyboy27]

English is much simpler than romance languages, imvho
I'm fluent in Portuguese and English and can read in Spanish and French
and English is by far the simplest of those
and easiest for non native speakers to learn

the big question: why is there only 3 people so far in favor of english?

me and rosenpenis are obviously unbiaised, we both originally talk a latin language (french and portuguese) and we both found english easy to learn.

i suspect that a lot of people here dont think english is a good ideas beccause the evil american speak it.

[Bud Struggle]

i suspect that a lot of people here dont think english is a good ideas beccause the evil american speak it.

Who cares? It works in the real world. (Yea I know, Communism =/= real world.)

[danyboy27]

Who cares? It works in the real world. (Yea I know, Communism =/= real world.)

dont you flame in my thread buD!

[Bud Struggle]

dont you flame in my thread buD!

You spoke about the "Evil Americans." It's your flame.

Real world: English works, it the universal language. Dude--it's a done deal.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

a done deal?
like when French was the universal language? was that a done deal?

[RotStern]

German? You have to be fucking kidding me. I just spent like half a page going on about how it's the simplest language ever. Oh well. I guess it all goes down to personal preference. Some languages are just easier for some people than others. Keeping that in mind, I think one International language could complicate things more as different people seem to pick up different languages easier. For example, Spanish as the International language may seem like a good idea to some, but for others it'll be difficult to learn. How most people manage to learn English absolutely puzzles me.

No I am not fucking kidding you.
I have spoken to numerous people who have tried to learn German as a
2nd 3rd and even 4rth language who would complain about how difficult it is.

[LOLseph Stalin]

No I am not fucking kidding you.
I have spoken to numerous people who have tried to learn German as a
2nd 3rd and even 4rth language who would complain about how difficult it is.

I must just be really smart then because it's easy for me. :D

[danyboy27]

You spoke about the "Evil Americans." It's your flame.

Real world: English works, it the universal language. Dude--it's a done deal.

that was a carricature toward those who see america has something evil, not an actual critic or flame of america.

even tho i agree english is already widespread little effort is made to spread it efficiently in many place of the world for monetary or political reasons

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

As a card-carrying communist and faithful stooge of the New World Order, I of course support the propagation of international auxiliary languages.

Lojban is definately my first choice - logical grammatical structure, easy to learn, and it sources its vocabulary from the most widely-spoken languages (apart from English?).

Mind you, diversity is a good thing, so other auxiliary languages, if the whole concept ever gets off the ground properly, are also likely to spring up based on regional and functional needs. For example, Lojban has a great potential to become an international language of science, engineering, and other technical trades. Interlingua (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua) could become the lingua franca of the Americas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas), while Esperanto could become the language of choice for a pan-European unity.

[yuon]

English language holds this position already to some degree. It's called lingua franca and I think that every people indeed should learn at least the basics of english.

Funny thing about the term "lingua franca", it means, literally, "language of the Franks" (or "Frankish language" or something), in other words, French.

English, thus isn't the lingua franca ;).

I think that English has got a lot of potential for being an "international auxiliary language", especially as it is already known by many people around the world. The language is quite diverse, and able to adapt new terms and words easily.

However, all this adaption has lead to a really shit spelling system, without much coherence. Personally, I think the idea of a phonetic spelling system is a good one. (However, then you have people in different regions spelling things differently, an example of where this happens being Japan. Can't bloody win.)

[9]

Yeah, when I was in high school, I took a few years of Spanish. I remember constantly hearing in these classes that English was one of the harder languages to learn because it doesn't make a lot of sense. As a native English-speaker and not the slightest bit of a linguist in any sense of the word, I have no idea whether there is truth behind this. Although there do seem to be many quirks in the English language, whereas Spanish seems to be much more uniform, so I'm inclined to believe it. Nonetheless, it is true as many have noted that English is already widely spoken. On the other hand, with regard to the US, I think it would be a very good thing for Americans to have to learn a language other than English. It almost seems to me that the fact that English is the sole language spoken by the majority of white Americans contributes to ethnocentrism and some weird sort of language-chauvinism... obviously "language-chauvinism" is part of a larger chauvinism, but I hear somebody at my work (and a slew of other places I find myself at) usually at least once a week fly into a hissy fit about how "if I have to press '1' for English one more time...[insert pseudo-threat here] -- this is America!":rolleyes:

[RGacky3]

Easiest Language to learn in my experience? Norwegian, Spanish and ENglish are my other ones, and they are pretty hard.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

English is so fantastically easy because sentence construction is simple and straight foreward
verb tenses are remarkably easy
other parts of speech seldom change to suit verb tense or gender
there are very, very few rules

[Havet]

0r 1337zp34|C

LEETSPEAK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leetspeak)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

0r 1337zp34|C

LEETSPEAK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leetspeak)

Isn't that a dialect rather than a language?

[RedAnarchist]

I would love to speak another language fluently, but I'm crap at learning new languages.

[Havet]

Isn't that a dialect rather than a language?

Yup, but if the goal is to homogenize human interaction, then when using the internet and writting I would suggest leetspeak, and when talking something else.

Seriously, why do people want an uniform language? Do they feel afraid that there's other languages they don't understand? Why would someone want to force everyone else to speak only one language?

I mean, if an universal language develops gradually and naturally, then great. But if it's imposed, then fuck it.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Yup, but if the goal is to homogenize human interaction, then when using the internet and writting I would suggest leetspeak, and when talking something else.

How can you homogenise human interaction with a dialect/cipher that is subject to an enormous level of variation?


Seriously, why do people want an uniform language? Do they feel afraid that there's other languages they don't understand? Why would someone want to force everyone else to speak only one language?

A (relatively) uniform language would go a long way towards eliminating cultural and linguistic barriers between people.


I mean, if an universal language develops gradually and naturally, then great. But if it's imposed, then fuck it.

All languages are "imposed" to varying degrees. Being born in an English-speaking country means that the English language is "imposed" on one since birth.

[Havet]

How can you homogenise human interaction with a dialect/cipher that is subject to an enormous level of variation?

Shit, i forgot. Good point NoXion. There's tons of variations within leetspeak (how each word is written)


A (relatively) uniform language would go a long way towards eliminating cultural and linguistic barriers between people.

Those are natural barriers that have arisen due to human evolution. It would be best to eliminate the imposed barriers like freedom of movement and the link first, and then see how things naturally progress.


All languages are "imposed" to varying degrees. Being born in an English-speaking country means that the English language is "imposed" on one since birth.

Certainly you can see the difference between kicking immigrants out because they don't speak the language or letting them retain the choice of learning the language or not and see the advantages it might bring when dealing with others. Of course, being born is a different case, like you pointed out. At that young age you are not capable of reasonable arguing with your parents in order to choose another language, are you?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Those are natural barriers that have arisen due to human evolution. It would be best to eliminate the imposed barriers like freedom of movement and the link first, and then see how things naturally progress.

Who's to say what barriers are "natural" and which are not? One could say that nation-states are not natural barriers since they created by humans, but since humans are a part of nature does that not also, by extension, make borders between nation-states "natural" barriers?

The of course there is the fallacy of deriving an "ought" from an "is" - just because cultural and linguistic barriers have naturally evolved between humans, doesn't mean they're existance is in any way justified. Malaria is natural, but it's occurance represents a "natural evil" in humanistic morality systems.


Certainly you can see the difference between kicking immigrants out because they don't speak the language or letting them retain the choice of learning the language or not and see the advantages it might bring when dealing with others.

I don't think people should be kicked out for not learning the local language, but I do think it should be considered courteous and considerate to do so, as well as making life easier for the immigrants and improving social cohesion.

Personally I think there are better ways of propagating languages than the thuggish "if you don't, we'll kick you out". For instance, in order to propagate Lojban as an international language of science and engineering, making it a requirement of a technical education would go a long way to encouraging its spread, and with a minimum of nastiness. School lessons, free courses for adults and a socially significant media presence would also go a long way to encouraging the acquisition of a language.

It's much better to offer incentives for learning rather than to offer disincentives for not learning.


Of course, being born is a different case, like you pointed out. At that young age you are not capable of reasonable arguing with your parents in order to choose another language, are you?

Indeed, but there still considerable social pressure to acquire the language. Even so, because it's something they've experienced from birth, most people don't complain.

[Ele'ill]

The ideal choice for an international language would be Wingdings or for increased clarity- Dingbats.