Nigger

[SoupIsGoodFood]

So how do you feel about the "N-word"? Should nobody say it? Should black people be the only ones allowed to use it with the "Friendly a" without you being offended? Should everyone except white people (Latinos, Asians, ect) be able to say it? Should everyone be allowed to say it? How about cracker? Should non whites say that? My personal opinion is that its just a word. I think everybody should be able to say it without anybody getting really offended. I sometimes use it (I'm hispanic) but usually in a joking context or just to mean like friend. I'll also use the "er" when I'm just being racist with my friends for fun, but I'm just fucking around of course. It is funny when white kids try to be all hard and shit and say it though. I'm not offended though, I just laugh at them.

[cb9's_unity]

No racial group can own a word. If the word is being used against a black person because of their race then that is wholly inappropriate. However, like it or not, modern culture has developed the word to mean a whole range of things. And in my opinion that is actively desensitizing the word and is beginning to take away a verbal weapons the racists have used for a long time.

[khad]

Actually, within the black community, in non-friendly discussion, "nigger" has a class connotation used to denigrate working class and homeless black folks by black people who are better off. For those of you who have never actually encountered a black community, refer to Chris Rock's rant "blacks vs. niggers." Even among black people, "nigger" is often a fighting word.

I have no idea why so many people believe the right-wing lie that black people run around going "nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger!"

[amandevsingh]

It is stupid and ignorant. No, it should not be acceptable for anyone to say it.

[Pia Fidelis]

It is simply a word. Nothing more. Only those who are expecting sympathy will regard it as otherwise. As for it being "reclaimed" by those of African decent, it is not any better than its use in discriminatory terms. For many of the aforementioned will still employ it in a parallel manner.

Again, words are simply words.

[LOLseph Stalin]

The word "Nigger" is never acceptable. It's a Racist term. Simple.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Actually, within the black community, in non-friendly discussion, "nigger" has a class connotation used to denigrate working class and homeless black folks by black people who are better off. For those of who who have never actually encountered a black community, refer to Chris Rock's rant "blacks vs. niggers." Even among black people, "nigger" is a fighting word.

I have no idea why so many people believe the right-wing lie that black people run around going "nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger!"

Around where I live, at least among people my age, "Nigga" can be a fighting word, but its mostly used in the context as "Guy". I think older folks use it more as a fighting word though.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Plus, it seems like the people who are most offended by the "N-word" are white people from nice neighborhoods.

[khad]

Around where I live, at least among people my age, "Nigga" can be a fighting word, but its mostly used in the context as "Guy". I think older folks use it more as a fighting word though.
That's probably because the class connotation of "nigger" doesn't fully become apparent until after people fully immerse themselves into class society, ie. after they grow up and enter the workforce fulltime.

IIRC, you're like 15.

[RedAnarchist]

I don't use it as I am a white male, and that makes it loaded with the injustices and hatred that black people suffered at the hands of white men. I do not need to call a black person a n**ger, or a Pakistani a p*k* etc.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

That's probably because the class connotation of "nigger" doesn't fully become apparent until after people fully immerse themselves into class society, ie. after they grow up and enter the workforce fulltime.

IIRC, you're like 15.

Thats probably true. Yeah, I'm 15.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I don't use it as I am a white male, and that makes it loaded with the injustices and hatred that black people suffered at the hands of white men. I do not need to call a black person a n**ger, or a Pakistani a p*k* etc.

Yeah, I would say its probably a good idea for a white person not to say "Nigga" if they don't hang out with a lot of black people or whatever.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

I accept that there is a certain degree of amelioration that happens over a period of time by which words lose a lot of their negative connotations. I also accept that in some circles it's used freely as a term of endearment.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the word, I went to college with a guy whose nickname was Niggy - which he insisted on being called. I think he found awkward white kids amusing.

I used to be much more comfortable with the word before I heard people say it with real malice. It's somewhat of an 'outsiders opinion', but I just think that the use of the word as a term of endearment is ignorant of the past.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Yeah, I would say its probably a good idea for a white person not to say "Nigga" if they don't hang out with a lot of black people or whatever.

Uh, it would be a good idea not to say it at all. That's the point. It doesn't matter if a 'white person' hangs out with 'black people' or not, the problem is that "nigger" or "nigga" is a racist word. Unfortunately terms like this can never be claimed (or "reclaimed") by anyone person or group, and it means different things to different people. While someone might use "nigga" casually or without intent to offend anyone, its still in poor taste imo.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Uh, it would be a good idea not to say it at all. That's the point. It doesn't matter if a 'white person' hangs out with 'black people' or not, the problem is that "nigger" or "nigga" is a racist word. Unfortunately terms like this can never be claimed (or "reclaimed") by anyone person or group, and it means different things to different people. While someone might use "nigga" casually or without intent to offend anyone, its still in poor taste imo.

The white kids I chill with use nigga and the black kids dont care, and the black kids say cracker and the white kids dont care.

[RedAnarchist]

The white kids I chill with use nigga and the black kids dont care, and the black kids say cracker and the white kids dont care.

Compared to ni**er, cracker is nothing. There is no history of oppression and slavery behind it.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

What about white people being assaulted by black people? Its not really a history of oppression but in its usual context cracker could be interpreted as pretty offensive to whites I guess. I don't really consider either word very offensive though.

[RedAnarchist]

What about white people being assaulted by black people? Its not really a history of oppression but in its usual context cracker could be interpreted as pretty offensive to whites I guess. I don't really consider either word very offensive though.

What do you mean by assault? Do you mean verbally?

[mykittyhasaboner]

The white kids I chill with use nigga and the black kids dont care, and the black kids say cracker and the white kids dont care.
SO? Who the fuck cares if kids think its funny or don't care about people saying "nigga" or "cracker"? I bet you wouldn't do the same to a 60 year old black man who remembers when "nigger" was a very offensive racial slur. Get that through your head.


What about white people being assaulted by black people? Its not really a history of oppression but in its usual context cracker could be interpreted as pretty offensive to whites I guess. I don't really consider either word very offensive though.
It doesn't matter what you consider it, because that's not the point. The point is, that racist slurs have no rightful place in our languages and came into use through the oppression of racial minorities/disenfranchised peoples. Stop assuming that because you don't find some word offensive, that someone else wont.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

What do you mean by assault? Do you mean verbally?

Well both physically and verbally.

[RedAnarchist]

Well both physically and verbally.

If someone assaults another person based solely on their race, then it is a racist assault. However, words like cracker don't really count as racist, at least not in my opinion.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

SO? Who the fuck cares if kids think its funny or don't care about people saying "nigga" or "cracker"? I bet you wouldn't do the same to a 60 year old black man who remembers when "nigger" was a very offensive racial slur. Get that through your head.


Yeah, but thats cause I don't go out trying to offend people. Words meanings change over time. I still don't see whats wrong with saying it with your friends and people who arent offended.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

If someone assaults another person based solely on their race, then it is a racist assault. However, words like cracker don't really count as racist, at least not in my opinion.

Well a couple days ago about 6 wannabe gangstas jumped one white kid pretty much for no reason calling him a cracker and shit. So I can sort of understand if white people would be offended by cracker.

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

Nobody should use the words ''nigger'' or ''paki'' or anything like that, even if it is part of so-called friendly banter. I don't like the word 'cracker' either; it's not completely harmless because it's still an insult based on someone's colour. I don't think the word nigger should be ''reclaimed'' because to do so you have to brush over the historical significance of the word and you're also diminishing the importance of its connotations. There's too much meaning behind it for it to ever become acceptable.

[Killfacer]

Well a couple days ago about 6 wannabe gangstas jumped one white kid pretty much for no reason calling him a cracker and shit. So I can sort of understand if white people would be offended by cracker.

There isn't a history of opression and slavery which the word "nigger" has. Black people don't have a history of oppressing white people, so obviously any word associated with the history and ongoing opression is going to be more offensive.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

This thread is fucking useless sorry but words have different meanngs and carry different amount of emotional baggage in different cultures. I am yet to see a black person use the word nigger apart from jokingly I have only seen white kids address each other as nigger to be like edd from shuan of the dead or to be gangsters.

PS: The reason the media comes down on white people who use racial terms more then black people is because black people tend not discriminate against whites as a result of the legacy left by kidnapping white people and putting them in packed boats with the intention of working them to death while using nigger as a derogatory word to refer to them.

[Hiero]

What is this obessesion with the word "nigger".

In what day to day interactions would a white person need to us the word "nigger". To the people who say it is just a word and us whites should be able to use it. Ok then tell me in what situation are you so desperate to use the word "nigger"?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

What is this obessesion with the word "nigger".

In what day to day interactions would a white person need to us the word "nigger". To the people who say it is just a word and us whites should be able to use it. Ok then tell me in what situation are you so desperate to use the word "nigger"?

Because its used as an example of how white folk are discriminated against. This for many white people is an issue especially from those who dont see any non-whites. Step into their shoes , you live in the shit and all round you society is telling you its the fault of these people who get free stuff get all the jobs etc. Chances are you havent met these people (although you probably listen to there music which contains the word nigger every second line) but considering its all you here your going to believe it to some degree. Henceforth the word nigger is going to be used as an example.

Instead of pointing out that these people are racists which is fucking obvious perhaps addressing why this is will get us somewhere instead of scorning cheap lefty points.

[OneNamedNameLess]

There isn't a history of opression and slavery which the word "nigger" has. Black people don't have a history of oppressing white people, so obviously any word associated with the history and ongoing opression is going to be more offensive.

I'm sorry but I don't buy this. I don't think this excuses the use of the word 'cracker' in racist terms. If it is used against a white person as an offense due to their skin colour then why isn't it just as bad? I accept that the word nigger has historical connotations, but the whole blacks have been more exploited than whites so this racist term is worse than this one, shouldn't wash with us. If these terms are used as an insult based on skin colour then they are both just as bad.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I'm sorry but I don't buy this. I don't think this excuses the use of the word 'cracker' in racist terms. If it is used against a white person as an offense due to their skin colour then why isn't it just as bad?

Because some fuckheaded **** calling me a cracker dosent hurt my feelings because i'm not a slave whipping bastard automatically for being white despite the hypothetical idiot's presumption .Whist a black person does indeed put up with alot of shit which still circulates from the era in which is was common to refer to them as niggers. Ones alot more powerful then the other.


I accept that the word nigger has historical connotations, but the whole blacks have been more exploited than whites so this racist term is worse than this one, shouldn't wash with us. If these terms are used as an insult based on skin colour then they are both just as bad.

No not really, obviously anyone who uses racism is a scumbag but the word nigger tends to be much more offensive to black people when used by whites in an insulted manner then the word cracker towards whites when used as an insult by blacks.

[Die Rote Fahne]

It should never be used in a racist or bigoted way.

It's all about the context. If we are talking about the word we should be up front and say we are talking about the word "nigger".

It's about context. Don't worry about me using it in a conversation about racism, mind the racist fucker who's using it to demean black people.

[OneNamedNameLess]

No not really, obviously anyone who uses racism is a scumbag but the word nigger tends to be much more offensive to black people when used by whites in an insulted manner then the word cracker towards whites when used as an insult by blacks.

I do see that, i'm saying using either word in such a context is just as bad as it's racist. This is like saying racism towards whites by blacks can never be as bad as racism towards blacks by whites due to what our ancestors did. Being called a cracker as an insult by a black would still offend me and upset me pretty much, the reason being that I was being discriminated against simply as a result of my skin colour. The historical side shouldn't come in to it.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Whats the point in debateing badness, seriously whats to gain?

[OneNamedNameLess]

Whats the point in debateing badness, seriously whats to gain?

Not much?

[Redmau5]

the reason being that I was being discriminated against simply as a result of my skin colour. The historical side shouldn't come in to it.

How were you being discriminated against?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Not much?

Agreed.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

How were you being discriminated against?

I presume someone called him a cracker and it upset him. He was discriminated against if thats true because he has white skin.

[OneNamedNameLess]

How were you being discriminated against?

I probably didn't explain that properly. I have never been called a cracker as we don't use that word in the UK or at least not where i'm from. If I was called that word by a black person as an insult because I have white skin then that would be discrimination.

[genstrike]

I'm sorry but I don't buy this. I don't think this excuses the use of the word 'cracker' in racist terms. If it is used against a white person as an offense due to their skin colour then why isn't it just as bad? I accept that the word nigger has historical connotations, but the whole blacks have been more exploited than whites so this racist term is worse than this one, shouldn't wash with us. If these terms are used as an insult based on skin colour then they are both just as bad.

"Cracker" isn't a racist word though. Racism = Prejudice + Power/Privilege, and is tied up in long-standing systems of oppression. It is a word which could be used in a prejudiced manner, but not in a racist manner as white people aren't racially oppressed really anywhere.

I don't see what the obsession white people have with the word (and I'm white). "Oh, they can say it but we can't" - really, if you have the problem of wanting to say it a lot but think other people might be offended, chances are you're a racist. "Oh, we can't say it, we're oppressed" - yeah, slavery versus being unable to use racist language, you're so oppressed.

There are very very few situations in which white people are able to use the word in a non-racist way.

[Redmau5]

I probably didn't explain that properly. I have never been called a cracker as we don't use that word in the UK or at least not where i'm from. If I was called that word by a black person as an insult because I have white skin then that would be discrimination.

But in what way would you be actively being discriminated against, apart from having your ego bruised?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

"Cracker" isn't a racist word though. Racism = Prejudice + Power/Privilege, and is tied up in long-standing systems of oppression. It is a word which could be used in a prejudiced manner, but not in a racist manner as white people aren't racially oppressed really anywhere.

Dont be fucking ridiculous.Insulting someone based on race not racist.


I don't see what the obsession white people have with the word (and I'm white). "Oh, they can say it but we can't" - really, if you have the problem of wanting to say it a lot but think other people might be offended, chances are you're a racist. "Oh, we can't say it, we're oppressed" - yeah, slavery versus being unable to use racist language, you're so oppressed.

There are very very few situations in which white people are able to use the word in a non-racist way.

This is exactly the kind of shit i was referring to earlier.


Me: earlier

Because its used as an example of how white folk are discriminated against. This for many white people is an issue especially from those who dont see any non-whites. Step into their shoes , you live in the shit and all round you society is telling you its the fault of these people who get free stuff get all the jobs etc. Chances are you havent met these people (although you probably listen to there music which contains the word nigger every second line) but considering its all you here your going to believe it to some degree. Henceforth the word nigger is going to be used as an example.

Instead of pointing out that these people are racists which is fucking obvious perhaps addressing why this is will get us somewhere instead of scorning cheap lefty points.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Seriously folks pointing out how blatantly racist folk are racist is a waste of forum space and only serves to increase your lefty prick size.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

But in what way would you be actively being discriminated against, apart from having your ego bruised?

Its still racism though and an issue that needs addressing.

[OneNamedNameLess]

But in what way would you be actively being discriminated against, apart from having your ego bruised?

Violence and abuse directed at me due to the colour of my skin?

[Manifesto]

Plus, it seems like the people who are most offended by the "N-word" are white people from nice neighborhoods.
Yeah do not say that in Detroit or Harlem.

[9]

I am white, and it is not a word I ever use, but I do have black friends who use it 'affectionately'. One friend of mine, Abiola, whose family emigrated here (US) from Nigeria when she was younger finds particularly amusing that it makes so many white people uncomfortable. Obviously there is no homogeneous singular context of usage, so it is used many different ways in many different places to mean many different things, but I think people who are not black would be wise not to use it. I wholeheartedly sympathize with the efforts of some black people to reclaim the word, but I'm sure as hell not going to think I'm entitled to go around saying a word that still has the potential to be so profoundly offensive.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I just realized I have the "n-word" in my signature. Oops.

[genstrike]

Dont be fucking ridiculous.Insulting someone based on race not racist.

No, as I said, it can be a prejudiced word but it's not a racist word because there aren't systems of racism against white people. If you are arguing that there is systemic racism against white people (racism is a system, it's more than just irrational prejudice), then you're the one being fucking ridiculous.


This is exactly the kind of shit i was referring to earlier.


Me: earlier

Because its used as an example of how white folk are discriminated against. This for many white people is an issue especially from those who dont see any non-whites. Step into their shoes , you live in the shit and all round you society is telling you its the fault of these people who get free stuff get all the jobs etc. Chances are you havent met these people (although you probably listen to there music which contains the word nigger every second line) but considering its all you here your going to believe it to some degree. Henceforth the word nigger is going to be used as an example.

Instead of pointing out that these people are racists which is fucking obvious perhaps addressing why this is will get us somewhere instead of scorning cheap lefty points.

That's what I was trying to do, explain a little about racism to explain why white people saying that word is racist. I obviously didn't put a lot of effort into it or go into a lot of detail because this is a thread titled "Nigger" on RevLeft - quite frankly, it's hard to take this thread seriously.

So, how do we explain racism and why things are racist without, to use your sexist metaphor, being "a waste of forum space and only serves to increase your lefty prick size."

You've said that it is an issue that needs addressing, but that attempts to address it is a waste of forum space.

[N3p7uN3]

Actually, within the black community, in non-friendly discussion, "nigger" has a class connotation used to denigrate working class and homeless black folks by black people who are better off. For those of you who have never actually encountered a black community, refer to Chris Rock's rant "blacks vs. niggers." Even among black people, "nigger" is often a fighting word.

I have no idea why so many people believe the right-wing lie that black people run around going "nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger!"

They do all day long at my school...it's sickening to be honest.

EDIT: I think I've met maybe one or two who do not use the word.

[N3p7uN3]

"Oh, they can say it but we can't" - really, if you have the problem of wanting to say it a lot but think other people might be offended, chances are you're a racist.

I must disagree. In my school, if a white person used the word "nigger" in almost any context, that person would be jumped by over 100 people, as it has happened before outside during a fire drill. How would you like to go to school every day afraid that you might way a wrong word?

[khad]

They do all day long at my school...it's sickening to be honest.

EDIT: I think I've met maybe one or two who do not use the word.
As discussed earlier in this thread, kids=/=real life

People need to stop talking about high school as if it gives them profound social insight.

[N3p7uN3]

As discussed earlier in this thread, kids=/=real life

People need to stop talking about high school as if it gives them profound social insight.

Oh as we all know, high school isn't reality and doesn't reflect on society at all.

[mikelepore]

Comrade Joe said a lot of truth. There is a tendency for people on the left to "score lefty points" by acting oblivious to the occasions where whites are the victims of racism, and males are the victims of sexism. The power-and-privilege criterion for identifying racism is itself an example of this --an ad hoc definition of a word gets changed from minute to minute, so that one moment it's racism only if people are historically denied power, and the next moment it's racism if an individual merely repeats a joke, etc. There is also some truth in the books the ultra-conservative Bernard Goldberg, where the author listed many situations in the U.S. today in which white males are systematically victimized by ethnic discrimination. People on the left feel required by peer pressure to pretend and to say that they don't see it happening.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

No, as I said, it can be a prejudiced word but it's not a racist word because there aren't systems of racism against white people. If you are arguing that there is systemic racism against white people (racism is a system, it's more than just irrational prejudice), then you're the one being fucking ridiculous.

No, im not that would be absurd but what I am saying insulting someone based on their race is racist are you seriously telling me that groups who beat each other based on race are only racist if they attack non-whites.




That's what I was trying to do, explain a little about racism to explain why white people saying that word is racist. I obviously didn't put a lot of effort into it or go into a lot of detail because this is a thread titled "Nigger" on RevLeft - quite frankly, it's hard to take this thread seriously.


Its not automatically racist your not a racist for using the word but most of the time if done seriously it has racist intent behind it. Words arnt racist , the meaning behind is.


So, how do we explain racism and why things are racist without, to use your sexist metaphor, being "a waste of forum space and only serves to increase your lefty prick size."

Lol at that being sexist.

You explain racism as it is enforced by discrete stereotypes which are relayed by the media and tend to effect people who dont know any non-xxx (normally non whites) and as a result belive they all have a certain negtivie charcteristic(s)





You've said that it is an issue that needs addressing, but that attempts to address it is a waste of forum space.

No going " white people who want to say nigger r racist lulz - discusion ovarrr" is fucking useless. pointing out that its a resut of a perceived opression by non-whites as a result of the media is not.

[pastradamus]

People Invent words to Insult people of different nationalities, ethnic groups, religions, skin colours and many many other things. None of which are acceptable. Its not acceptable for me to say "spic, nigger, greaseball , Towel head, frog" or any other word no more than it is acceptable for a foreigner to call me a "mick" or a "taig".

[Stand Your Ground]

No one should say it, due to the race hatred history to it.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

This is what I mean about scoring lefty points.

[sandragnash]

I have no idea why so many people believe the right-wing lie that black people run around going "nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger!"

Because it's true?
Search youtube for "Criminals Gone Wild in Atlanta", for an example.
Plenty of working class blacks in America use the word CONSTANTLY.

We could easily remove ALL of its power if black people ignored it when white people used it - but as it is, racist whites know that it will get a response if they use it, so they do.
Working class blacks are now at the stage where the word, when said by other blacks, isn't remotely offensive, and is even used as an expression of friendship (listen to the man in the video above, and the way he uses it).

[RedAnarchist]

Because it's true? Search youtube for "Criminals Gone Wild in Atlanta", for an example.
Plenty of working class blacks in America use the word CONSTANTLY

That looks like it's been heavily edited to make the people involved look bad.

Also, what do you know about America? Have you ever lived there, or are you just basing your idea of America on what you see in the movies and on television?

[OneNamedNameLess]

As discussed earlier in this thread, kids=/=real life

People need to stop talking about high school as if it gives them profound social insight.

Schools play a big part in the socialisation of children and are responsible for their conditioning pretty much. Let's use high schools as an example as they are a significant part of society and drop the paternal, age bias attitude.

[Collectivism]

That evil word is not just a word it is a tool used to dehumanize African-Americans. Whites should never say it, a white person saying that word is the exact same as owning a slave.

[political_animal]

That evil word is not just a word it is a tool used to dehumanize African-Americans. Whites should never say it, a white person saying that word is the exact same as owning a slave.

Saying one, single, solitary word, regardless of context, equates to having ownership of another human being?!

The only word I can find appropriate for that, is... bollocks!