Obama may soften healtcare plan.

[*Red*Alert]

President Barack Obama's administration has signalled that its healthcare reforms may be diluted, amid pressure from opponents.


Mr Obama has been pressing for a government-run scheme to extend healthcare insurance to some 46 million people in the US.
But Health Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said that this had never been Mr Obama's top priority.



She hinted that he may accept the idea of non-profit insurance co-operatives.



In an interview with CNN, Ms Sebelius said that Mr Obama's government-run insurance plan - a so-called "public option" - was "not the essential element" of the administration reforms.




"I think what's important is choice and competition. And I'm convinced at the end of the day, the plan will have both of those," she said.
Separately, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs also refused to say that the "public option" was a make-or-break choice.
Mr Gibbs said Mr Obama's administration would consider an alternative proposal of consumer-owned, non-profit co-operatives that would sell insurance in competition with private industry.
The proposal is currently being fine-tuned in the Senate Finance Committee.



The comments of Mr Obama's senior officials come in contrast to the president's remarks at a "town-hall" speech in Colorado on Saturday that his faith in a public option was strong.



If the administration makes this concession it would probably enrage many of its liberal supporters, correspondents say.
But they say it could also deliver the president a much-needed win on his top domestic priority for 2009.



There has been some progress in the House of Representatives on agreeing a deal on the issue but negotiations in the Senate have stalled.


Both chambers need to agree on a bill before it can become law.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8204508.stm

[eyedrop]

The last month I've been preparing to eat my words on how electoral politics are useless, if the democrats had been able to implement a decent socialised healthcare, that probably wouldn't have come through in a republican government.

Luckily for me, and unluckily for everyone living in the US, things doesn't seem so bright.

[BlackCapital]

I saw this earlier and its pretty unnerving. It seemed to me like the administration was pretty set on creating some weak public option to slightly reduce costs and what not, but it looks like the corporate insurance grip is so strong they won't even allow that.

[gorillafuck]

I'm not surprised at all, I wasn't sure if he was even going to go this far.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

So uhhhm... Obama's not going to CHAAAAAANGE everything:confused:

It's really not surprising... I was never entirely sure what the bill was proposing in the first place. Edward Kennedy's single payer bill never had a hair of a chance, and so I assumed that Obama's healthcare bill was some diluted form of that. Last I heard the plans for a 'publically funded insurance company' to compete with the private ones was abandoned in the interest of bipartisanship, since the Republicans were up in arms.

The number of 'progressive' democrats is pretty thin compared to the blue-dogs and republicans, getting any semblance of fully socialised healthcare in the USA wasn't going to happen. 95% of the talk about government run healthcare is from ultra conservatives sticking their fingers in their ear and screaming 'socialism' at the top of their voice.

[GPDP]

HOPE

CHANGE

YES WE CAN

Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta go disillusion a few liberals.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

Oh well. Was a shitty plan anyway. Probably not the best idea to model a national healthcare plan after the same plan that bankrupted Massachusetts. Not to mention the whole pandering to giant medical and big pharma corporations stuff.

[*Red*Alert]

I'm amazed it got this far, but if he does dilute it, there will be a lot of people who won't be wooed by "Hope", "Change" and "Insert Slogan Here" rhetoric at the next election when they see that sweet fvck all has changed.

The fact that the Dem's don't even have the backbone to even partially reform health care doesn't bode well for the future, and certainly not for American Leftists.

[Lolshevik]

So, how many progressive working class people will Obama be able to fool in '12, now that we see that this is the change we (apparently) believed in?

[What Would Durruti Do?]

So, how many progressive working class people will Obama be able to fool in '12, now that we see that this is the change we (apparently) believed in?

He has dark skin, is (fairly) young, and is a good speaker. What else do you need to fool the American people?

[Communist]

He has dark skin, is (fairly) young, and is a good speaker. What else do you need to fool the American people?

I don't know what dark skin has to do with it, considering the American people have been fooled scores of times before by men with white skin, nor has age and good speaking ability meant much, as has been shown many times prior.
And the Europeans aren't exactly fool-proof either; they love every imperialist US political swine with the Democrat label attached. Hardly anyone seems to get that there's very very very little difference (if any) between the two Capitalist US Parties.

Anyway.

This isn't going to change a thing, sadly enough. The political gameplaying will continue as before, the *Liberals* will continue making smarmy patronising excuses and the *Conservatives* will continue their appalling neo-Fascist pandering.

And the working class and oppressed of the world will continue to suffer.

[La Comédie Noire]

They've changed the context of the debate, it's not "Public Vs. Private" it's "How can we make it more affordable?"

Awhile back my Sociology teacher asked us to name what we thought were "Fundamental Rights" People said things like "Freedom of the Press" "Freedom of Speech" "Privacy" "Pursuit of Happiness" but not one of them, as he noted after, said anything like "Freedom from Hunger" or "Freedom from Sickness"

[Axle]

Watering-down an already fairly watered-down national health care plan?

I have a feeling that if this bill gets passed it'll be such a terrible waste of money and resources that it'll disillusion enough Americans that a fully-functional public health care system will be right out of the question.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta go disillusion a few liberals.
I agree with the content of what a lot of people here have said, but seriously I hope you are non-US comrades.

Disillusion liberals - no thanks, the Democrats do a fine job of that. If you'll excuse me I have to go out and agitate and radicalize a few liberals.

We need to go out there and explain to everyone why this failed and why liberal politics are not enough to win reforms let a lone real change.

[Lolshevik]

They've changed the context of the debate, it's not "Public Vs. Private" it's "How can we make it more affordable?"

Awhile back my Sociology teacher asked us to name what we thought were "Fundamental Rights" People said things like "Freedom of the Press" "Freedom of Speech" "Privacy" "Pursuit of Happiness" but not one of them, as he noted after, said anything like "Freedom from Hunger" or "Freedom from Sickness"

Okay, so the context of the debate is what is more affordable? We can play that game, too. The United States spends more on health care than any other "first world" nation, most of these costs are used up in administration and red tape. A single-payer system, controlled by the workers in the health care industry with input (or secondary control) by the general public would do away with an awful lot of corporate red tape.

[RedScare]

I kinda expected this. The insurance companies have been pulling some pretty slimy shit to shut down health care reform, such as hiring people to go to town hall meetings with Democratic congressmen and shout right wing talk points to stop debates.

[ontheyslay]

So instead of a government option, there is going to be a non-profit cooperative taking it's place? Seems better than having the government run the program.

[Communist]

I kinda expected this. The insurance companies have been pulling some pretty slimy shit to shut down health care reform, such as hiring people to go to town hall meetings with Democratic congressmen and shout right wing talk points to stop debates.

Sure, but it's not like this wasn't planned. Not only is it the health care companies doing the hiring (the same companies buying the politicians you should note), but I'd suspect the politicians themselves are dropping a few rewards to these *hecklers*. Democratic ones as well, and don't for a moment doubt the same ones being shouted down.
...And the games will continue. Don't fall for the bourgeois smoke and mirrors; we're communists for a reason - and that's because we know the capitalists are completely and irrevocably opposed to the interests of the working class and oppressed.

[GPDP]

I agree with the content of what a lot of people here have said, but seriously I hope you are non-US comrades.

Disillusion liberals - no thanks, the Democrats do a fine job of that. If you'll excuse me I have to go out and agitate and radicalize a few liberals.

We need to go out there and explain to everyone why this failed and why liberal politics are not enough to win reforms let a lone real change.

I was being smarmy. What I meant was, I am going to show what has happened here to my Obama-loving friends, and present it as an example of the failure of his liberal policies and his liberal method of reform.

No doubt some of them are already preparing excuses. It wouldn't be surprising, since they saw fit to defend his shitty plan before it was watered down even more than it already was.

[Jimmie Higgins]

GPDP,
I didn't mean to single you out, I was just trying to change the general tone of the conversation a little.

I kinda expected this. The insurance companies have been pulling some pretty slimy shit to shut down health care reform, such as hiring people to go to town hall meetings with Democratic congressmen and shout right wing talk points to stop debates.While they have been exposed organizing these town hall protests and spreading the crazy misinformation on Obama's conservative "reform" plan, I doubt the actual hecklers were paid.

The truth is that the right-wing is much better organized than we are and the liberal establishment has is tied to the Democrats who are putting forward a plan that is unclear and doesn't really make sense to most workers and doesn't obviously benefit them.

The Unions in the US built a big political machine to get the vote out for Obama and then they stopped organizing. They didn't call out anyone to fight for card-check (despite giving this legislation as the reason for workers to support Obama) and so the legislation was killed by corporate propaganda before it ever had a chance to go anywhere. The unions are only now sending people out to counter the right-wing at the town hall - but such a shitty health plan probably can't bring many people out.

We have the numbers and a year ago there were more people in favor of universal health care than today - but the limitations of liberal politics allowed the right to gain the upper hand by inflaming the single-digit percentage of the US population that is retired and have nothing to do but listen to right-wing radio while on the lookout for the government black helicopters bringing shipments of Ameros into the country.

The US is highly polarized and if a real plan for single-payer healthcare was put forward, I think there would be many more die-hard pro-reform protesters who could easily drown-out these right-wing hecklers.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

I don't know what dark skin has to do with it, considering the American people have been fooled scores of times before by men with white skin, nor has age and good speaking ability meant much, as has been shown many times prior.

I guess you missed my point as you pretty much proved it.

I was addressing the concept of "change".

[h9socialist]

Comrades -- All this does is prove that revolution to overthrow capitalism is a prerequisite to human decency and dignity on a social scale. I happen to think that Obama is -- in his heart of hearts -- a good guy. The problem is that the system is so dedicated to keeping the US as "the citadel of capitalism" that any sort of humanity in the health care system has to be screened for its fidelity to Milton Friedman. It's getting to the point of disgusting now -- even well-meaning liberals like Obama can't get the slightest modicum of decency out of the political process. If that's not an argument for radical change, I don't know what is.

[n0thing]

As far as I can see; Obama is trying to solve the problem of increasingly expensive employer funded healthcare, by implementing some sort of public option.

He's treading a pretty thin line. Big corporations like Wallmart are backing the public option because they wouldn't have to pay for their employee's healthcare, and would thus save money. And obviously the health insurance giants would stand to lose a lot of their business to the government if the plans went through, seeing as about 100 million people said they would immediately switch to a public option if it were present.

The public option is designed to keep the insurance companies in business, although they would lose a lot of it. The universal option still isn't on the table, although some polls show about 80% of Americans support it, and have done for about half a century.

I can't see it going through. The insurance companies have far more at stake than the big employers who have to hand out healthcare to their employees; so they've essentially bought out the entire Republican party to campaign against it. Fox News is blasting away for whatever the Republicans want, as per usual, and a few companies have pulled advertising in response. It would probably be a disaster if it did go through anyway, and may actually kill public enthusiasm for a universal option.

[Muzk]

Shit like this sometimes makes me want to forget all the morale and punch some republicans.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Woo! Obama: Change we can believe in! :rolleyes:

[El Rojo]

this is so fucking sad. we all knew it was gonna happen but still. Obama is in the typical Catch 22 reformist position. The liberal "left" are crying betrayal, the right are cynically trashing his plan and both are watching like hawks for any compromise. As well as everything else, this is going to tear a naive but decent guy to pieces.

Conrades, we are about to see a case study of why reformism doesn't work.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I can't see it going through. The insurance companies have far more at stake than the big employers who have to hand out healthcare to their employees; so they've essentially bought out the entire Republican party to campaign against it. Fox News is blasting away for whatever the Republicans want, as per usual, and a few companies have pulled advertising in response. It would probably be a disaster if it did go through anyway, and may actually kill public enthusiasm for a universal option.

Great point about corporate support for this public option scheme.

Essentially the only thing that could put single-payer on the table is a huge mobilization by union members and other workers. Unfortunately the business unionism of SEIU means that union leaders are backing Obama's plan. For one thing, the union leadership tie their fortunes to the Democratic party; secondly, I feel the business-unionism logic of "what's good for the business will make it easier for the workers" means that they would love to just make healthcare a non-issue for barganing since this has been one of the major sticking points in contract negotiations at least since the 1990s.

Public mobilization for socialized healthcare could swing the union leadership to support that position (especially if there was rank and file agaitation for it) - without it the union leaders will still continue to back any plan put forward by the democrats.

[GPDP]

Essentially the only thing that could put single-payer on the table is a huge mobilization by union members and other workers.

As with anything, really. This is a point that has to be reiterated at every opportunity - change comes when it is backed by a resounding demand from the working class, not when we elect the most liberal candidate.

[Jimmie Higgins]

As with anything, really. This is a point that has to be reiterated at every opportunity - change comes when it is backed by a resounding demand from the working class, not when we elect the most liberal candidate.Yeah, I really hope that this is the lesson some of the rank and file can begin to learn because even with revolutionary-eyes wide open and knowing the weakness of liberal politics, it's been pretty devastating to see pro-union reform and healthcare go down with little more than a whimper from liberals in the past month or two.

Overall I think the trend in US politics is still drifting left but it's drifting, not charging and I fear the losses by the Democrats will demoralize and confuse more workers than make them feel like mobilizing for a push-back or making real demands on a "liberal" President - at least in the near-term.

The Republicans were hoping for a repeat of Bill Clinton and right now it does look like it if you simply read the mainstream press, but the difference between the early 90s and now is that there is much more polarization and the crisis of capitalism and neoliberalism will intensify political struggle as well as make it difficult for Obama to simply follow a "New Democrat" neoliberal approach.