Why is the Communist Party of Ireland supporting a Monarchy

[Cael]

I was shocked to see that the Communist Party of Ireland supports the Good Friday Agreement, which is a bourgeois treaty giving legitimacy to British Crown misrule in Ireland. Reading the CPI's website, I see the only excuse the CPI offers for this disgraceful sell out of every Communist principal is that the GFA might reduce sectarianism. Somebody told me that the CPI are just a small group of old men who are in their second childhood. I dont know if that's true but believing that a treaty that freezes politics in the north of Ireland along sectarian lines, indeed, institutionalises sectarianism, would reduce sectarianism must be already in an advanced stage of dementia.

The GFA leaves class politics completely outside the door. Power is distributed along sectarian/ethnic lines only. As long as the GFA exists, there can be no class politics.

Its time for the CPI to stop disgracing itself, and withdraw its support from monarchical, sectarian misrule in Ireland.

[Jorge Miguel]

Somebody told me that the CPI are just a small group of old men who are in their second childhood. I dont know if that's true but believing that a treaty that freezes politics in the north of Ireland along sectarian lines, indeed, institutionalises sectarianism, would reduce sectarianism must be already in an advanced stage of dementia.
Considering you've thousands upon thousands of posts over the internet on various forums and seamingly from the above have no experience of the CPI, I'd guess you're an arm chair. Then again, you've admitted as much previously. An RSF supporter is in no position to critise the CPI for an ageing membership, not that it's fucking relevent anyway.

If you want an answer to the question, get up from your keyboard and do something in the real world, Cael. I say the above with agreement on the GFA, Socialist Republicans and Communists cannot say we oppose sectarianism yet support a document which entrenches it.

[Madvillainy]

Somebody told me that the CPI are just a small group of old men who are in their second childhood.

yeah they only seem to come out of their caves once a year, during may day. Beyond that they are not very active at all. Typical 'gas and water' socialists.

[Cael]

Considering you've thousands upon thousands of posts over the internet on various forums and seamingly from the above have no experience of the CPI, I'd guess you're an arm chair. Then again, you've admitted as much previously. An RSF supporter is in no position to critise the CPI for an ageing membership, not that it's fucking relevent anyway.

If you want an answer to the question, get up from your keyboard and do something in the real world, Cael. I say the above with agreement on the GFA, Socialist Republicans and Communists cannot say we oppose sectarianism yet support a document which entrenches it.

A particularly brainless post. You say you also condemn the GFA as a sectarian treaty, but then you make an incipid attack on me that makes no sense at all. You should try taking your head out of your ass, the air is fresher out here.

[griffjam]

yeah they only seem to come out of their caves once a year, during may day.

They mostly come out at night. Mostly

[Cael]

Its very sad. I was thinking of joining the Communist Party as we desperately need a Communist party in Ireland - but then I found out they were just a gang of monarchists.

[The Idler]

Its very sad. I was thinking of joining the Communist Party as we desperately need a Communist party in Ireland - but then I found out they were just a gang of monarchists.
Have a look at the socialist parties in Ireland instead (http://eng.anarchopedia.org/List_of_Left-Wing_Parties_in_Ireland).

[Cael]

I think we need a proper Communist Party, with a solid policy for a 32 County Communist Republic. No half measures. Maybe the CPI could be salvaged and put to work if the current misleadership could be put out to pasture.

[*Red*Alert]

I was shocked to see that the Communist Party of Ireland supports the Good Friday Agreement, with is a bourgeois treaty giving legitimacy to British Crown misrule in Ireland. Reading the CPI's website, I see the only excuse the CPI offers for this disgraceful sell out of every Communist principal is that the GFA might reduce sectarianism. Somebody told me that the CPI are just a small group of old men who are in their second childhood. I dont know if that's true but believing that a treaty that freezes politics in the north of Ireland along sectarian lines, indeed, institutionalises sectarianism, would reduce sectarianism must be already in an advanced stage of dementia.

The GFA leaves class politics completely outside the door. Power is distributed along sectarian/ethnic lines only. As long as the GFA exists, there can be no class politics.

Its time for the CPI to stop disgracing itself, and withdraw its support from monarchical, sectarian misrule in Ireland.

Welcome to RevLeft, Cael! I was going to PM you on IR.net a few weeks ago to come and join as you'd be right at home here with all the intellectual marxists.

Looking forward to reading more of your posts and seeing your stir up this pot.

[nikolaou]

because unfortunately there is lots of bourgeois workers parties, and alot of the "Communist parties" became social democratic parties after the soviet union kicked the bucket.

parties like the one you are speaking about can really do alot of damage to the far-left movement unfortunatley.

however, as long as there is Capitalism, the Proletariat will exist, and wether by the same name or not, the ideas of Marx, Bakunin and others will live on.

[redflag32]

A particularly brainless post. You say you also condemn the GFA as a sectarian treaty, but then you make an incipid attack on me that makes no sense at all. You should try taking your head out of your ass, the air is fresher out here.


The comrades of the CPI do a lot more mork than you or I put together. I agree that they are wrong in their analysis of the 6 counties but they are very active in the unions down south as far as i know.

[Cael]

The comrades of the CPI do a lot more mork than you or I put together. I agree that they are wrong in their analysis of the 6 counties but they are very active in the unions down south as far as i know.

Perhaps they do lots of work, but doing work is not a commendable thing in itself. You have to be doing useful work. By backing up a monarchical occupation in Ireland they undo any good work they might otherwise do. Besides, the record of the trade unions in the south has been far from glowing. They were playing the financial markets like any spiv, and now are fully backing NAMA (the robbery of the taxpayers to bail out the banks) in the hope of getting the millions they lost back. Disgraceful. They were certainly thin on the ground supporting the Thomas Cook workers. There were a few people from siptu there and that was it.

[*Red*Alert]

The comrades of the CPI do a lot more mork than you or I put together. I agree that they are wrong in their analysis of the 6 counties but they are very active in the unions down south as far as i know.
I've never saw them outside of their bookshop or there €3 Million HQ in Dublin, but as Cael has put it, if they were more towards a 32 County Communist state, then I'd be in there.

At the moment, reformism is the way to go! Until we get a real alternative.

[PRC-UTE]

I was shocked to see that the Communist Party of Ireland supports the Good Friday Agreement, which is a bourgeois treaty giving legitimacy to British Crown misrule in Ireland.

Its time for the CPI to stop disgracing itself, and withdraw its support from monarchical, sectarian misrule in Ireland.

em, I think it's obvious they're doing it for the lulz

[PRC-UTE]

I've never saw them outside of their bookshop or there €3 Million HQ in Dublin, but as Cael has put it, if they were more towards a 32 County Communist state, then I'd be in there.

At the moment, reformism is the way to go! Until we get a real alternative.

I've seen them outside their shop in temple bar, and at a few events.

Their shop is over-rated, though. They don't even talk to me because they know me. :blushing:

[Cael]

I've never saw them outside of their bookshop or there €3 Million HQ in Dublin, but as Cael has put it, if they were more towards a 32 County Communist state, then I'd be in there.

At the moment, reformism is the way to go! Until we get a real alternative.

Perhaps if they have such expensive real estate they dont really want things to change? Maybe things are just dandy for them?

[Cael]

I've seen them outside their shop in temple bar, and at a few events.

Their shop is over-rated, though. They don't even talk to me because they know me. :blushing:

Just on a point of information then, do they have any members under sixty?

[*Red*Alert]

I've seen them outside their shop in temple bar, and at a few events.

Their shop is over-rated, though. They don't even talk to me because they know me. :blushing:

Did you take a picture? That should be one for the history books in 10 years time :laugh:

If you think that's bad try the Sinn Fein shop in 44 Parnell Square, they stare at you like they expect you to grab a copy of the Proclamation or a portrait of Bobby Sands and leg it out the door! And that's to a member, so a stranger must get worse!

Pity the IRSP don't have a shop. I've always been looking for the IRSP Roll of Honour with details of the Vol's or a re-printed copy of Labour in Irish History (which the Commie Shop and even Shinner Shop doesn't stock anymore!) as well as some books on Seamus Costello, since he's the greatest Irish socialist since Connolly but little is available about him.

And what's all this in the O'Reilly Press about the INLA decommissioning?

[PRC-UTE]

Just on a point of information then, do they have any members under sixty?

yes of course.

surely you've seen them yourself on may day or at the 100000 strong march through the capital in Feb?

[Cael]

Did you take a picture? That should be one for the history books in 10 years time :laugh:

If you think that's bad try the Sinn Fein shop in 44 Parnell Square, they stare at you like they expect you to grab a copy of the Proclamation or a portrait of Bobby Sands and leg it out the door! And that's to a member, so a stranger must get worse!

Pity the IRSP don't have a shop. I've always been looking for the IRSP Roll of Honour with details of the Vol's or a re-printed copy of Labour in Irish History (which the Commie Shop and even Shinner Shop doesn't stock anymore!) as well as some books on Seamus Costello, since he's the greatest Irish socialist since Connolly but little is available about him.

And what's all this in the O'Reilly Press about the INLA decommissioning?

Yes, I agree Costello was the greatest Irish Socialist since Connolly, it was an enormous loss to Ireland when he was murdered by sticky criminals. I think he was mistaken about taking seats in bourgeois assemblies though. I dont think that should ever be done until there are soviets established and a dual power situation has already developed.

[*Red*Alert]

Just on a point of information then, do they have any members under sixty?
Does RSF? Since Damien D left to set up Le Cheile Saor, ye must be struggling

[PRC-UTE]

Did you take a picture? That should be one for the history books in 10 years time :laugh:

If you think that's bad try the Sinn Fein shop in 44 Parnell Square, they stare at you like they expect you to grab a copy of the Proclamation or a portrait of Bobby Sands and leg it out the door! And that's to a member, so a stranger must get worse!

Pity the IRSP don't have a shop. I've always been looking for the IRSP Roll of Honour with details of the Vol's or a re-printed copy of Labour in Irish History (which the Commie Shop and even Shinner Shop doesn't stock anymore!) as well as some books on Seamus Costello, since he's the greatest Irish socialist since Connolly but little is available about him.

And what's all this in the O'Reilly Press about the INLA decommissioning?

yes, they do watch everyone like a hawk!

the IRSP have some books on sale at Costello House. You're right that a dublin location once again would be great.

any chance of a link to this decomissioning story a stoir

[Cael]

yes of course.

surely you've seen them yourself on may day or at the 100000 strong march through the capital in Feb?

If only :hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle:

[Cael]

Does RSF? Since Damien D left to set up Le Cheile Saor, ye must be struggling

Ah there's a few all right. But the loss of a key strategist like D won't be easy to get over.

[*Red*Alert]

any chance of a link to this decomissioning story a stoir

Can't find anything online, a chara. But it was in the Irish News of the World, I've the article here. I'll scan it and post it up if you give me ten minutes.

It's headlined "Terror Drug Dealers in vow to end violence" - INLA We're gun fighting", basically someone from the Dublin branch saying that they're planning on decommissioning but it won't happen overnight and that if the Northern branches don't go along with it, they'll go it alone. All this is accompanied with a half page picture of Declan Duffy, so take it lightly :lol:

[*Red*Alert]

any chance of a link to this decomissioning story a stoir
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8430/lastscan2b.jpg

[Cael]

Can't find anything online, a chara. But it was in the Irish News of the World, I've the article here. I'll scan it and post it up if you give me ten minutes.

It's headlined "Terror Drug Dealers in vow to end violence" - INLA We're gun fighting", basically someone from the Dublin branch saying that they're planning on decommissioning but it won't happen overnight and that if the Northern branches don't go along with it, they'll go it alone. All this is accompanied with a half page picture of Declan Duffy, so take it lightly :lol:

I think this story involved a few criminal involved with Duffy rather than having anything to do with the INLA.

[PRC-UTE]

Can't find anything online, a chara. But it was in the Irish News of the World, I've the article here. I'll scan it and post it up if you give me ten minutes.

It's headlined "Terror Drug Dealers in vow to end violence" - INLA We're gun fighting", basically someone from the Dublin branch saying that they're planning on decommissioning but it won't happen overnight and that if the Northern branches don't go along with it, they'll go it alone. All this is accompanied with a half page picture of Declan Duffy, so take it lightly :lol:

lol that is funny in so many ways.

now we should get back on topic to bashing the tankies. I heard the CPI are smuggling Irish children to sex slavery in eastern europe.

[*Red*Alert]

lol that is funny in so many ways.

now we should get back on topic to bashing the tankies. I heard the CPI are smuggling Irish children to sex slavery in eastern europe.

See the scan of it above. Wonder who the IRSP spokesperson was? *Glares suspiciously*

Stalinists! Smuggling children.

[Cael]

lol that is funny in so many ways.

now we should get back on topic to bashing the tankies. I heard the CPI are smuggling Irish children to sex slavery in eastern europe.

So thats how they can afford such expensive buildings...

But seriously, do any of their members or supporters ever come on this forum?

[PRC-UTE]

So thats how they can afford such expensive buildings...

But seriously, do any of their members or supporters ever come on this forum?

Yeah, I've seen a few of them on here.

[*Red*Alert]

Ah there's a few all right. But the loss of a key strategist like D won't be easy to get over.

Ye're just raging because he took Eire Nua with him and is going to build it himself :D

[Cael]

Ye're just raging because he took Eire Nua with him and is going to build it himself :D

Ah no, he's abandoned that and joined the RNU.

Hey, its time for me to slag off your gang. What did you think of Toireasa having to eat her words on TV?

[Cael]

Yeah, I've seen a few of them on here.

Well, hopefully one or two of them will have the courage to defend their support for the GFA. Not that such a thing is actually possible.

[*Red*Alert]

Ah no, he's abandoned that and joined the RNU.

Hey, its time for me to slag off your gang. What did you think of Toireasa having to eat her words on TV?

Oh Christ! Bully for them so!

I'm somewhat confuzzled about it, Marty must have started calling her a "traitor to the island of Ireland". Whatever about her eating her words, she's definitely one to keep an eye on.

[Cael]

Oh Christ! Bully for them so!

I'm somewhat confuzzled about it, Marty must have started calling her a "traitor to the island of Ireland". Whatever about her words, I'd eat her out any day though

Ya, she's a babe - not very smart, but nobody's perfect...

[*Red*Alert]

Ya, she's a babe - not very smart, but nobody's perfect...
She's naturally blonde though, so that's expected but she's also got several degrees so she's smart enough but you can only rise so far when you've got Gerry and Marty on top of yo, that said, I hope she makes it into next years Republican Resistance calendar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjdoOW6vjkk

Its a pity that even Marty thinks at the end that Gerry will decide when he leaves. If I remember there's a big thing called an Ard Fheis that we all drive across the country for every year to decide things like that.

[Jorge Miguel]

I think we need a proper Communist Party, with a solid policy for a 32 County Communist Republic. No half measures. Maybe the CPI could be salvaged and put to work if the current misleadership could be put out to pasture.
So you've moved on from arguing the CIRA are the vanguard? Although in both cases, the easiest thing to do is to sit online ranting about this or that. While doing nothing to bring it about.

If you believe the CIRA should seize land from gombeens, then join.

If you believe we need a genuine communist party, then build it.


re-printed copy of Labour in Irish History (which the Commie Shop and even Shinner Shop doesn't stock anymore!)
You could buy a box of them from Connolly Books if you wanted. I bought 10 copies just before Easter.


yes of course.

surely you've seen them yourself on may day or at the 100000 strong march through the capital in Feb?
:lol: Or the fact they led Bob Doyle's remains through the center of Dublin to Liberty Hall, etc, etc, etc. They're not massive but punch above their weight and the fact that the OP has never encountered them is testament to what I already suspected from his thousands of posts on other forums.

[*Red*Alert]

You could buy a box of them from Connolly Books if you wanted. I bought 10 copies just before Easter.


I rang them six months ago and they said they had none. I'd be interested in getting a copy for a friend at the moment. He lent it to someone and never got it back :crying:

[Philosophical Materialist]

I don't see how monarchy is particularly relevant to the nature of contemporary British imperialism in Ireland. If Britain had a constitutional republic rather than a constitutional monarchy, I doubt the working class would be much better off in Ireland.

[PRC-UTE]

So you've moved on from arguing the CIRA are the vanguard?


wait wait wait...

leaving aside the really amazing idea that the CIRA is the vanguard...

how can the CIRA be the true government of the Tom Maguire Republic and the vanguard of revolution...?

truly I will never comprehend the Zen of RSF Thought :blink:

[Cael]

So you've moved on from arguing the CIRA are the vanguard? Although in both cases, the easiest thing to do is to sit online ranting about this or that. While doing nothing to bring it about.

If you believe the CIRA should seize land from gombeens, then join.

If you believe we need a genuine communist party, then build it.


You could buy a box of them from Connolly Books if you wanted. I bought 10 copies just before Easter.


:lol: Or the fact they led Bob Doyle's remains through the center of Dublin to Liberty Hall, etc, etc, etc. They're not massive but punch above their weight and the fact that the OP has never encountered them is testament to what I already suspected from his thousands of posts on other forums.

You dont know what Im doing, and whatever Im doing I'd be pretty sure that its more useful than what a fool like you would get up to. No doubt you show up to a few protests and then imagine yourself some kind of working class hero and revolutionary. You seem to be the typical type of mouth that has nothing of interest to say but cant shut up anyway. Why did you come on this thread if you had nothing to say? Could you not keep your mindless trolling for somewhere else?

[Cael]

I don't see how monarchy is particularly relevant to the nature of contemporary British imperialism in Ireland. If Britain had a constitutional republic rather than a constitutional monarchy, I doubt the working class would be much better off in Ireland.

A Communist party shouldn't be supporting a bourgeois government of any sort.

[Jorge Miguel]

You dont know what Im doing
Considering you spend up to 12 hours a day on ir.net (sometimes more) then I think it's quite conclusive.

"Words that do not match deeds are unimportant."

Che Guevara.

[Cael]

Considering you spend up to 12 hours a day on ir.net (sometimes more) then I think it's quite conclusive.

"Words that do not match deeds are unimportant."

Che Guevara.


Your some idiot. I check into Ir.net a few times a day, since I'm a mod there. Sometimes I just leave the web page open while Im doing something else.

But the question is: why are you watching my movements so intently? Are you in the police? Or are you just some dork with an obsession?

[Seven Stars]

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8430/lastscan2b.jpg

Just in case someone didn't realize it, that article is complete bullshit.

[*Red*Alert]

considering you spend up to 12 hours a day on ir.net (sometimes more) then i think it's quite conclusive.

"words that do not match deeds are unimportant."

che guevara.

burn!!

[*Red*Alert]

Just in case someone didn't realize it, that article is complete bullshit.
Of course, but sadly there are people amongst the Proletariat who won't know its bullshit as they've never had contact with Irps. Its incredible how much shite they get away with making up.

[Cael]

burn!!

I think I remember this clown from IR.net he just posts up statements, dosnt seem to have any brain of his own at all. I wonder does he go around timing everyone on the internet or just me? A kind of mad train watcher. Anyway, I reported his trolling on this thread and hopefully the mods here will deal with him.

[Jorge Miguel]

A Communist party shouldn't be supporting a bourgeois government of any sort.Like the 1st Dáil? Whoops. :wub:

[Cael]

Like the 1st Dáil? Whoops. :wub:

The First Dáil dosnt exist any more gimpo, and as Marx and Lenin said, even bourgeois rebellions against imperialism are to be welcomed.

This is my last answer to you troll boy. I've already reported your trolling and I'll report this one as well. If you have anything to say on the topic of this thread than say it. If not, then go back to counting the minutes I spend on Ir.net - thats an activity uniquely suited to your intellect.

[Soldier of life]

The First Dáil dosnt exist any more gimpo, and as Marx and Lenin said, even bourgeois rebellions against imperialism are to be welcomed.

This is my last answer to you troll boy. I've already reported your trolling and I'll report this one as well. If you have anything to say on the topic of this thread than say it. If not, then go back to counting the minutes I spend on Ir.net - thats an activity uniquely suited to your intellect.


So you thought it wrong to support the first dail?

And btw I know jorge, hes active, unlike someone else here. It's a little hard to respect your point of view when you go around talking about the contos like they are some marxist revolutionary organisations, and its highly ironic you making jibes at anyone about the age of members when RSF do little more then poke history with a stick.

CPI do more then it seems you will ever do. I dont support their stance on the GFA, and I think they will change it over time, but they do a hell of a lot more then RSF for a socialist ireland and of course, a hell of a lot more then you. Go appropriate some land for the workers off a capitalist will ya, tbh I'm sick of listening to your shite on the internet, all you do is ***** and point out what you see as the faults in groups. How about applying the same standards to yourself.

[Pogue]

I've never saw them outside of their bookshop or there €3 Million HQ in Dublin, but as Cael has put it, if they were more towards a 32 County Communist state, then I'd be in there.

At the moment, reformism is the way to go! Until we get a real alternative.

Reformism is the way to go?

[Cael]

So you thought it wrong to support the first dail?

And btw I know jorge, hes active, unlike someone else here. It's a little hard to respect your point of view when you go around talking about the contos like they are some marxist revolutionary organisations, and its highly ironic you making jibes at anyone about the age of members when RSF do little more then poke history with a stick.

CPI do more then it seems you will ever do. I dont support their stance on the GFA, and I think they will change it over time, but they do a hell of a lot more then RSF for a socialist ireland and of course, a hell of a lot more then you. Go appropriate some land for the workers off a capitalist will ya, tbh I'm sick of listening to your shite on the internet, all you do is ***** and point out what you see as the faults in groups. How about applying the same standards to yourself.


Didnt you get banned off IR.net for your constant trolling and stupidity? I didnt realise that this was a refugee camp for IR.net rejects.

Listen, there are good things about RSF and there are bad things. One thing they dont do is support the occupation forces of a foreign monarchy.

Jorge I have no interest in. He has proved himself to be a fool as far as Im concerned and I dont wish to waste any more time on him.

As for CPI, the only thing they have done is help to prop up the British occupation of Ireland and prop up the whoring of the trade union movement in Ireland. But in a very small way, as very few people even know they exist. So even if RSF and I do absolutely nothing we will not have done less than the CPI. And I suspect we will not have done less than you either, a chara. You strike me as another Jorge, turn up to a few protests and then jerk off to images of yourself as the man of action.

[Cael]

Anyway, if the mods could please get rid of these trolls, we could go back to the original topic: Why does the CPI support the GFA? Is there anyone with an intelligent answer to that?

[Soldier of life]

Didnt you get banned off IR.net for your constant trolling and stupidity? I didnt realise that this was a refugee camp for IR.net rejects. I really do think you take the internet too seriously. But I suppose when your 'activism' is confined to the internet, it leads to such assertions.


Listen, there are good things about RSF and there are bad things. One thing they dont do is support the occupation forces of a foreign monarchy.

Wow well done to them. RSF are just reactionary nationalist dinosaurs that are totally irrelevent, mardly the marxist vanguad, they arent even marxist.


Jorge I have no interest in. He has proved himself to be a fool as far as Im concerned and I dont wish to waste any more time on him.

You may think he is a fool, but it's the internet, its not serious. He is very active and having met him in a formal political capacity myself I found him extremely competent and dedicated. But I guess because he questions your activism on the internet he's soiled goods:thumbup1:


As for CPI, the only thing they have done is help to prop up the British occupation of Ireland and prop up the whoring of the trade union movement in Ireland. But in a very small way, as very few people even know they exist. So even if RSF and I do absolutely nothing we will not have done less than the CPI. And I suspect we will not have done less than you either, a chara. You strike me as another Jorge, turn up to a few protests and then jerk off to images of yourself as the man of action.

Oh now now, I hope I didnt strike a nerve with you.

CPI do many good things, I disagree with them on the GFA but to simply neglect all the other good work they do is very childish, nothing new from you. Rsf picketing Gerry Adams and having racist AF motions? I certainly place CPI ahead of them on the progressive front despite their stance on the GFA. As for mine or Jorges activism, feel free to make further enquiries elsewhere on that because I'm sure you'll be left quite:blushing: The thing about myself and Jorge though,aswell as other proper socialists, we don't 'jerk off' about things like shooting landlords and appropriating property and giving it to workers. We have belief in a strategy and we act it out,everyday. You on the other hand just talk shite on the internet about shooting capitalists while its clear you don't have the balls to do it yourself. Again, apply the same standards to yourself that you do to others, otherwise your a hypocrite. I wonder how you would analyse yourself, I don't think you'd be too complimentary. [NB. internet doesnt count as activism btw]

[Soldier of life]

Anyway, if the mods could please get rid of these trolls, we could go back to the original topic: Why does the CPI support the GFA? Is there anyone with an intelligent answer to that?


I thought the answer would be simple, especially to a seasoned socialist activist like yourself. I would assume they belive normal class politics will develop under the process of normalization. The rise in sectarianism since '98 and the neglecting of the fact that it is british occupation that is the source of sectarianism in Ireland obviously rubbished that analysis.

[PRC-UTE]

As for CPI, the only thing they have done is help to prop up the British occupation of Ireland and prop up the whoring of the trade union movement in Ireland. But in a very small way, as very few people even know they exist. So even if RSF and I do absolutely nothing we will not have done less than the CPI. And I suspect we will not have done less than you either, a chara. You strike me as another Jorge, turn up to a few protests and then jerk off to images of yourself as the man of action.

Well, some of that is truth - that they played a role in proping up things like the women's party, which were nothing but mouthpieces for the gfa.

But I wouldn't say that is the sum total of their work or contribution at all. Costello himself wanted an alliance with them, and held up launching a broad front until he'd brought them on board.

[Soldier of life]

Well, some of that is truth - that they played a role in proping up things like the women's party, which were nothing but mouthpieces for the gfa.

But I wouldn't say that is the sum total of their work or contribution at all. Costello himself wanted an alliance with them, and held up launching a broad front until he'd brought them on board.

Costello the monarchic apologist, thank god for cael or irish socialism would be fucked

[Cael]

I really do think you take the internet too seriously. But I suppose when your 'activism' is confined to the internet, it leads to such assertions.



Wow well done to them. RSF are just reactionary nationalist dinosaurs that are totally irrelevent, mardly the marxist vanguad, they arent even marxist.



You may think he is a fool, but it's the internet, its not serious. He is very active and having met him in a formal political capacity myself I found him extremely competent and dedicated. But I guess because he questions your activism on the internet he's soiled goods:thumbup1:



Oh now now, I hope I didnt strike a nerve with you.

CPI do many good things, I disagree with them on the GFA but to simply neglect all the other good work they do is very childish, nothing new from you. Rsf picketing Gerry Adams and having racist AF motions? I certainly place CPI ahead of them on the progressive front despite their stance on the GFA. As for mine or Jorges activism, feel free to make further enquiries elsewhere on that because I'm sure you'll be left quite:blushing: The thing about myself and Jorge though,aswell as other proper socialists, we don't 'jerk off' about things like shooting landlords and appropriating property and giving it to workers. We have belief in a strategy and we act it out,everyday. You on the other hand just talk shite on the internet about shooting capitalists while its clear you don't have the balls to do it yourself. Again, apply the same standards to yourself that you do to others, otherwise your a hypocrite. I wonder how you would analyse yourself, I don't think you'd be too complimentary. [NB. internet doesnt count as activism btw]


You know I couldnt give a damn about your "activism." Do what you like. Go start a thread about it and tell us all the wonderful things you do. I already asked for this thread to be limited to its topic. Seems the mods here are on holiday. We dont need the likes of you dragging the conversation to your pathetic little egos.

[Jorge Miguel]

You know I couldnt give a damn about your "activism." Do what you like. Go start a thread about it and tell us all the wonderful things you do. I already asked for this thread to be limited to its topic. Seems the mods here are on holiday. We dont need the likes of you dragging the conversation to your pathetic little egos.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/3line/128910741724170428.jpg?t=1247810256

[Cael]

Well, some of that is truth - that they played a role in proping up things like the women's party, which were nothing but mouthpieces for the gfa.

But I wouldn't say that is the sum total of their work or contribution at all. Costello himself wanted an alliance with them, and held up launching a broad front until he'd brought them on board.


So why do you think that they are so small and unheard of even with capitalism in crisis?

[Jorge Miguel]

CIRA's deadly new weapon


http://www.clearwellmobility.co.uk/images/int_cms_products/dzimmerweb_la.jpg

[Soldier of life]

You know I couldnt give a damn about your "activism." Do what you like. Go start a thread about it and tell us all the wonderful things you do. I already asked for this thread to be limited to its topic. Seems the mods here are on holiday. We dont need the likes of you dragging the conversation to your pathetic little egos.

I know you don't care about my activism, because it seems you don't care about activism fullstop.

Anyway I clearly answered your question above on why they support the GFA.

[Cael]

I know you don't care about my activism, because it seems you don't care about activism fullstop.

Anyway I clearly answered your question above on why they support the GFA.

No, its just you and your activism I dont care about. I asked for an intelligent answer - I'll wait till somebody gives one.

[Soldier of life]

No, its just you and your activism I dont care about. I asked for an intelligent answer - I'll wait till somebody gives one.

What was intelligent about my answer to your question?

[PRC-UTE]

No, its just you and your activism I dont care about. I asked for an intelligent answer - I'll wait till somebody gives one.

He already explained that the CPI mistakenly believed that class politics would flourish and that the national question and sectarian divisions in the working class could just be ignored.

Whicih I disagree with, but would not compare to 'supporting the monarchy' or whatever

[Jorge Miguel]

COMBAT LIBERALISM September 7, 1937



We stand for active ideological struggle because it is the weapon for ensuring unity within the Party and the revolutionary organizations in the interest of our fight. Every Communist and revolutionary should take up this weapon.
But liberalism rejects ideological struggle and stands for unprincipled peace, thus giving rise to a decadent, philistine attitude and bringing about political degeneration in certain units and individuals in the Party and the revolutionary organizations.
Liberalism manifests itself in various ways.
To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism.
To indulge in irresponsible criticism in private instead of actively putting forward one's suggestions to the organization. To say nothing to people to their faces but to gossip behind their backs, or to say nothing at a meeting but to gossip afterwards. To show no regard at all for the principles of collective life but to follow one's own inclination. This is a second type.
To let things drift if they do not affect one personally; to say as little as possible while knowing perfectly well what is wrong, to be worldly wise and play safe and seek only to avoid blame. This is a third type.
Not to obey orders but to give pride of place to one's own opinions. To demand special consideration from the organization but to reject its discipline. This is a fourth type.
page 32

To indulge in personal attacks, pick quarrels, vent personal spite or seek revenge instead of entering into an argument and struggling against incorrect views for the sake of unity or progress or getting the work done properly. This is a fifth type.
To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type.
To be among the masses and fail to conduct propaganda and agitation or speak at meetings or conduct investigations and inquiries among them, and instead to be indifferent to them and show no concern for their well-being, forgetting that one is a Communist and behaving as if one were an ordinary non-Communist. This is a seventh type.
To see someone harming the interests of the masses and yet not feel indignant, or dissuade or stop him or reason with him, but to allow him to continue. This is an eighth type.
To work half-heartedly without a definite plan or direction; to work perfunctorily and muddle along -- "So long as one remains a monk, one goes on tolling the bell." This is a ninth type.
To regard oneself as having rendered great service to the revolution to pride oneself on being a veteran, to disdain minor assignments while being quite unequal to major tasks, to be slipshod in work and slack in study. This is a tenth type.
To be aware of one's own mistakes and yet make no attempt to correct them, taking a liberal attitude towards oneself. This is an eleventh type.
We could name more. But these eleven are the principal types.
They are all manifestations of liberalism.
Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension. It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads. It is an extremely bad tendency.
Liberalism stems from petty-bourgeois selfishness, it places personal interests first and the interests of the revolution second, and this gives rise to ideological, political and organizational liberalism.
People who are liberals look upon the principles of Marxism as abstract dogma. They approve of Marxism, but are not prepared to practise it or to practise it in full; they are not prepared to replace

page 33
their liberalism by Marxism. These people have their Marxism, but they have their liberalism as well -- they talk Marxism but practise liberalism; they apply Marxism to others but liberalism to themselves. They keep both kinds of goods in stock and find a use for each. This is how the minds of certain people work.
Liberalism is a manifestation of opportunism and conflicts fundamentally with Marxism. It is negative and objectively has the effect of helping the enemy; that is why the enemy welcomes its preservation in our midst. Such being its nature, there should be no place for it in the ranks of the revolution.
We must use Marxism, which is positive in spirit, to overcome liberalism, which is negative. A Communist should have largeness of mind and he should be staunch and active, looking upon the interests of the revolution as his very life and subordinating his personal interests to those of the revolution; always and everywhere he should adhere to principle and wage a tireless struggle against all incorrect ideas and actions, so as to consolidate the collective life of the Party and strengthen the ties between the Party and the masses; he should be more concerned about the Party and the masses than about any private person, and more concerned about others than about himself. Only thus can he be considered a Communist.
All loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.

[Jorge Miguel]

http://www.dur.ac.uk/m.j.sun/mao.jpg

[PRC-UTE]

EIRE NUA v THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION

which produced more lulz

discuss

[Cael]

He already explained that the CPI mistakenly believed that class politics would flourish and that the national question and sectarian divisions in the working class could just be ignored.

Whicih I disagree with, but would not compare to 'supporting the monarchy' or whatever

In effect it is supporting a monarchy, because it is saying that the rule of the British state is capable of delivering progress - which it clearly is not. Its asking for confidence in a bourgeois sectarian regime. To do this is clearly to ask that confidence be withdrawn from actual class struggle, which can only happen in opposition to the bourgeois state.

[Jorge Miguel]

To do this is clearly to ask that confidence be withdrawn from actual class struggle, which can only happen in opposition to the bourgeois state.
Like the 1st Dáil, oh snap. :wub:

[Cael]

What was intelligent about my answer to your question?


Sadly, nothing.

[Hoggy_RS]

whats with all the personal attacks guys?

The CPI's support of the GFA is very dissapointing but you can't completley condem the party as it does have some other good policies. Also don't they have a youth movement so they must have some young members unlike has been impied by other posters.

[Cael]

whats with all the personal attacks guys?

The CPI's support of the GFA is very dissapointing but you can't completley condem the party as it does have some other good policies. Also don't they have a youth movement so they must have some young members unlike has been impied by other posters.

There are some serious trolls on this site and there dosnt seem to be any mods. There is no reason for, or logic in, these personal attacks. Soldier of Life was banned off IR.net for posting racist pictures, and a mate of his was banned at the same time for constantly posting up dopey pictures - sound like anyone we know?

Yes, Im sure the CPI does have other good policies, but I have to say that supporting the GFA undoes them. You can hardly want to overthrow the bourgeois state in the south and maintain it in the north. That would certainly be a contradiction. I think a lot of Republicans would join the CPI if they got rid of this contradiction.

[*Red*Alert]

Reformism is the way to go?
Oh no, you found me again!

[*Red*Alert]

Reformism is the way to go?
Oh no, you found me again!

On another note, RSF have done nothing since their founding to advance the struggle in anyway either constitutionally or militarily. However you manage to reconcile your Marxist beliefs with RSF is a mystery to me given their aging conservative brand of Republicanism, highlighted by many of their Ard Fheis motions. I would have thought the IRSP would be more suitable to your line of thinking.

While I agree with many of your arguments both here and on IR.net, you do spend on AWFUL long time shiteing on about two incompatible subjects (RSF and Marxism) or criticising other groups and movements, though the CPI deserve criticism in this case.

To return to PRC-UTE's point, which has been more successful: Eire Nua or the Cultural Revolution?


http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1382/ruairvsmao.jpg

[Cael]

You'd have to say that PSF havent done anything to advance the struggle either. In fact all we are saying about the CPI could be siad about PSF much more so. But would it not be better to keep this thread on topic, i.e. on the CPI's reasons for supporting the GFA...

[*Red*Alert]

You'd have to say that PSF havent done anything to advance the struggle either. In fact all we are saying about the CPI could be siad about PSF much more so. But would it not be better to keep this thread on topic, i.e. on the CPI's reasons for supporting the GFA...

Well it's difficult to place PSF in the same league as RSF or any other headbangers, we measure progress differently than the rest. As I said above, reformism is currently the way to go.

But let us get back on topic then.

[Cael]

Well it's difficult to place PSF in the same league as RSF or any other headbangers, we measure progress differently than the rest. As I said above, reformism is currently the way to go.

But let us get back on topic then.

Well, reformism is the topic I suppose. The CPI seem to think a bourgeois state can be reformed into a Socialist state. I think that is infantile.

[*Red*Alert]

Well, reformism is the topic I suppose. The CPI seem to think a bourgeois state can be reformed into a Socialist state. I think that is infantile.

And so does Sinn Fein, although its not like we had much of a choice in deciding it, given Adams and McGuinness working their Peace Process strategy since the late 1970s they certainly weren't going to let the means of achieving a Socialist Republic get in the way.

At to moment, it appears to me at least, that reformism is the only Leftist force in western nations and certainly so in Ireland. All other more radical groups from the CPI to Eirigi seem incapable of organising against the current status quo, and their inability to even contest elections further compounds this.

Ok, elections are reformist, but there's going to be no magical revolution where Worker's Councils spring up overnight and Right Wing TDs simply give up their seats. There idea of armed revolution is farcical given the state of all armed paramilitary groups, which seem incapable of organising a piss up in a brewery, let alone armed action against either of the Six County or Twenty-Six County State-lets.

[Cael]

And so does Sinn Fein, although its not like we had much of a choice in deciding it, given Adams and McGuinness working their Peace Process strategy since the late 1970s they certainly weren't going to let the means of achieving a Socialist Republic get in the way.

At to moment, it appears to me at least, that reformism is the only Leftist force in western nations and certainly so in Ireland. All other more radical groups from the CPI to Eirigi seem incapable of organising against the current status quo, and their inability to even contest elections further compounds this.

Ok, elections are reformist, but there's going to be no magical revolution where Worker's Councils spring up overnight and Right Wing TDs simply give up their seats. There idea of armed revolution is farcical given the state of all armed paramilitary groups, which seem incapable of organising a piss up in a brewery, let alone armed action against either of the Six County or Twenty-Six County State-lets.

I think you have to take the long view. Reformism will certainly achieve nothing - except the strengthening of the bourgeois state. So we have to immediately discount reformism as a viable strategy. As you say, building up soviets is hard work. But the formation of one soviet is worth a hundred years of constitutional reformism. There is really no option in Ireland but to begin a Dual Power Strategy. The financial crisis will help speed up that work.

[*Red*Alert]

I think you have to take the long view. Reformism will certainly achieve nothing - except the strengthening of the bourgeois state. So we have to immediately discount reformism as a viable strategy. As you say, building up soviets is hard work. But the formation of one soviet is worth a hundred years of constitutional reformism. There is really no option in Ireland but to begin a Dual Power Strategy. The financial crisis will help speed up that work.

Expand more on your strategy. I don't see the conditions right for the setting up of Soviet's or People's Councils, or where we could even begin? Reformism to a point or some sort of united armed struggle, with the amalgamation of all current armed groups into one popular front seems the only way to change.


Side Note: I have partially supported Eire Nua, in this thread: http://www.revleft.com/vb/socialism-within-sinn-t115149/index.html?p=1522008#post1522008

[Cael]

Expand more on your strategy. I don't see the conditions right for the setting up of Soviet's or People's Councils, or where we could even begin? Reformism to a point or some sort of united armed struggle, with the amalgamation of all current armed groups into one popular front seems the only way to change.


Side Note: I have partially supported Eire Nua, in this thread: http://www.revleft.com/vb/socialism-within-sinn-t115149/index.html?p=1522008#post1522008

Eire Nua, as its now written, is a fantasy. Its the idea that we will push the Brits out, then all sit down together at some sort of constitutional conference and Eire Nua will put forward as a proposal. No such constitutional conference will ever take place.

Republicanism has been fixated on the idea of writing letters (bombs, protests, etc, etc.) to the British government asking them to give us a Republic. Not since the Tan War has there been any attempt to start the work of setting up the institutions of our own Republic ourselves - without the permission of the Brits and without reference to them.

If Republicans, over the years, had put a fraction of the resourses and effort that they put into these letters to the empire into building soviets, where would we be now? Certainly a lot further on.

[Jorge Miguel]

There is really no option in Ireland but to begin a Dual Power Strategy. The financial crisis will help speed up that work.
Inspiring the masses one post at a time. :)

[*Red*Alert]

Eire Nua, as its now written, is a fantasy. Its the idea that we will push the Brits out, then all sit down together at some sort of constitutional conference and Eire Nua will put forward as a proposal. No such constitutional conference will ever take place.
Why will such a conference not take place, after the smashing of the Free State and Northern state?


Republicanism has been fixated on the idea of writing letters (bombs, protests, etc, etc.) to the British government asking them to give us a Republic. Not since the Tan War has there been any attempt to start the work of setting up the institutions of our own Republic ourselves - without the permission of the Brits and without reference to them.

If Republicans, over the years, had put a fraction of the resourses and effort that they put into these letters to the empire into building soviets, where would we be now? Certainly a lot further on.
How do we go about building the structures of the Republic? I can hardly walk out into the street outside my house with a megaphone and declare it a Soviet?

Or tell all the lads in McDonalds to hang out a banner saying "We make burgers, not profits".

[Cael]

Why will such a conference not take place, after the smashing of the Free State and Northern state?


How do we go about building the structures of the Republic? I can hardly walk out into the street outside my house with a megaphone and declare it a Soviet?

Or tell all the lads in McDonalds to hang out a banner saying "We make burgers, not profits".

What would there be to discuss at such a conference? The only way we will ever get the Brits out is if we have already perfected the structures of the Republic and used them to push out the structures of the bourgeois state.

There is no doubt that PSF have the strength to set up Community Councils all over the north and many parts of the south. In Venezeula CCs are set up with as little as 20 people. You should read up on the Zapatistas also.

[*Red*Alert]

What would there be to discuss at such a conference? The only way we will ever get the Brits out is if we have already perfected the structures of the Republic and used them to push out the structures of the bourgeois state.

There is no doubt that PSF have the strength to set up Community Councils all over the north and many parts of the south. In Venezeula CCs are set up with as little as 20 people. You should read up on the Zapatistas also.

True, I see where you're coming from as any time that Republicans have taken the initiative the community has benefited from the Republican Courts of the War of Independence to the defense and checkpoints in Free Derry.

I am in full favour of setting up our own community forum to deal with the issues that affect that community and it's something we practice in many areas of the Free State through involvement in founding community groups and our own Community Watch schemes without the assistance of the Free State.

The trouble is that the Adam's Leadership is fully rooted in the Peace Process and a solely electoral strategy which aims to bring the party into the mainstream, but its dangerous getting too involved with the bourgeois government processes. See Sticks for reference.

I've always admired both the Basques and the Zapatista's and have always imagined that's what a popular revolution should look like. People within the party and the youth wing are currently building links with the Zapatistas.

[Soldier of life]

Sadly, nothing.


Dispute it then. I have met and discussed this with CPI members. I know the position of the organisation and outlined it for you. What more do you want? Perhaps you could go educate yourself on irish groups properly, there's no shortage of literature produced by the CPI and they produce a paper very regularly. Or even better, how about going to see the CPI, privately or at one of their many public meetings they hold which include meetings on this subject, and voice your concerns?

[Cael]

True, I see where you're coming from as any time that Republicans have taken the initiative the community has benefited from the Republican Courts of the War of Independence to the defense and checkpoints in Free Derry.

I am in full favour of setting up our own community forum to deal with the issues that affect that community and it's something we practice in many areas of the Free State through involvement in founding community groups and our own Community Watch schemes without the assistance of the Free State.

The trouble is that the Adam's Leadership is fully rooted in the Peace Process and a solely electoral strategy which aims to bring the party into the mainstream, but its dangerous getting too involved with the bourgeois government processes. See Sticks for reference.

I've always admired both the Basques and the Zapatista's and have always imagined that's what a popular revolution should look like. People within the party and the youth wing are currently building links with the Zapatistas.

Yes, I think the Adams leadership is the biggest problem. Adams and McGuinness are obviously very comfortable with the trappings of bourgeois office and the lifestyle that goes with it. They are a million miles from wanting to set up anything like the Zapatistas have. In fact direct democracy seems to frighten everyone in the old time Republican leadership. Giving the plebs a direct say is a frightening concept to them.

[*Red*Alert]

Yes, I think the Adams leadership is the biggest problem. Adams and McGuinness are obviously very comfortable with the trappings of bourgeois office and the lifestyle that goes with it. They are a million miles from wanting to set up anything like the Zapatistas have. In fact direct democracy seems to frighten everyone in the old time Republican leadership. Giving the plebs a direct say is a frightening concept to them.
Funny you mention the fear of direct democracy, as I once suggested such a thing at a conference (basically Ard Fheis like voting) and they looked at me like "give every member a vote on this?" as if it was inconceivable! Every other structure in the party is open to voting and democracy, except any meeting involving the leadership.

I only pray that Adam's and McGuinness will eventually fuck off and leave the party to the newer generation of radicals who are crying out to get it back to its roots, out of the offices and into the communities. It'll take some doing, as every step the leadership takes generally heads away from that.

They've got way too comfortable once the PSNI/RUC stopped beating them and they got into the Assembly, and there is growing annoyance with them inside the party and even Toireasa eating her words isn't going to make that go away any time soon.

[Cael]

Funny you mention the fear of direct democracy, as I once suggested such a thing at a conference (basically Ard Fheis like voting) and they looked at me like "give every member a vote on this?" as if it was inconceivable! Every other structure in the party is open to voting and democracy, except any meeting involving the leadership.

I only pray that Adam's and McGuinness will eventually fuck off and leave the party to the newer generation of radicals who are crying out to get it back to its roots, out of the offices and into the communities. It'll take some doing, as every step the leadership takes generally heads away from that.

They've got way too comfortable once the PSNI/RUC stopped beating them and they got into the Assembly, and there is growing annoyance with them inside the party and even Toireasa eating her words isn't going to make that go away any time soon.

The problem is that you really have two parties. The southern party are much more left wing. The northern party have taken over from the SDLP as "the Catholic party," so waving the red flag is very threatening to their support base. Even the Belfast Chair - Bobby Storey - is a landlord. How a man who never had a job in his life has several rental properties in ireland and abroad is anyone's guess, but you can imagine that he wouldnt want to hear about any commie ideas. I dont see how PSF can maintain that contradiction. PSF is Fianna Fáil in the north and thats a pretty safe and secure position for them, but it has no real function in the south unless it can become a really left wing party. How can you have Brian Cowen and Joe Higgins in the same party?

[*Red*Alert]

The problem is that you really have two parties. The southern party are much more left wing. The northern party have taken over from the SDLP as "the Catholic party," so waving the red flag is very threatening to their support base. Even the Belfast Chair - Bobby Storey - is a landlord. How a man who never had a job in his life has several rental properties in ireland and abroad is anyone's guess, but you can imagine that he wouldnt want to hear about any commie ideas. I dont see how PSF can maintain that contradiction. PSF is Fianna Fáil in the north and thats a pretty safe and secure position for them, but it has no real function in the south unless it can become a really left wing party. How can you have Brian Cowen and Joe Higgins in the same party?

A very good analysis of the situation.

As you mentioned, it has no function in the South until it becomes a real Left wing party, and that's why the media and some members have been speculating about a split along geographical lines, but almost everyone is opposed to it as a real Republican party cannot be split along the lines of partition.

[Jorge Miguel]

Yes, I think the Adams leadership is the biggest problem. Adams and McGuinness are obviously very comfortable with the trappings of bourgeois office and the lifestyle that goes with it. They are a million miles from wanting to set up anything like the Zapatistas have. In fact direct democracy seems to frighten everyone in the old time Republican leadership. Giving the plebs a direct say is a frightening concept to them.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/DWJohnson/explain.jpg

[Die Neue Zeit]

I think we need a proper Communist Party, with a solid policy for a 32 County Communist Republic. No half measures. Maybe the CPI could be salvaged and put to work if the current misleadership could be put out to pasture.

Why not join the Irish Republican Socialist Party, then?

[CamiloTorres]

I disagree with the idea that RSF are right wing or "reactionary nationalists." These are lies used to tarnish a group that numbers great Republicans and has produced some of the finest works within the Republican ideology.

As for the GFA, supporting it is supporting sectarianism, capitalism and continued subjugation of the Irish people. It is a dead end ideologically and tactically.

[Jorge Miguel]

Why not join the Irish Republican Socialist Party, then?
Because he's a typical case of keyboard warrior. Actually doing something is beyond the realm.

[Hoggy_RS]

Why not join the Irish Republican Socialist Party, then?
Agreed, why the need to create a new communist party, when we could build up one of the many parties that already exsist in Ireland. Within Republican Socialism there is already many parties(IRSP, Eirigi, RSF & Workers Party).

[Cael]

Agreed, why the need to create a new communist party, when we could build up one of the many parties that already exsist in Ireland. Within Republican Socialism there is already many parties(IRSP, Eirigi, RSF & Workers Party).

Actually none of them have a Communist policy in that none of them have a policy of land nationalisation.

[CamiloTorres]

Actually none of them have a Communist policy in that none of them have a policy of land nationalisation.

But they are all left wing parties, why not stay within them and put these ideas forward. In the case of RSF, I would argue that land nationalisation goes hand-in-hand with Eire Nua.

[Cael]

But they are all left wing parties, why not stay within them and put these ideas forward. In the case of RSF, I would argue that land nationalisation goes hand-in-hand with Eire Nua.

No, RSF has a policy of distributism.

[*Red*Alert]

Workers Party

Join the Sticks? NO WAY! ;)

[Hoggy_RS]

Join the Sticks? NO WAY! ;)
I wouldn't either, but I don't think they are any worse than PSF.

[CamiloTorres]

No, RSF has a policy of distributism.

I don't think their policies are as dogmatic as you make out. In Saol Nua they call for the nationalisation of the commanding heights of industry and productivity, while O'Bradaigh wrote of the need for industrial democracy and investigated collectivist farming and worker's co-ops. Aside from this, Eire Nua calls for full de-centralisation of power to district levels, something that could only be properly facilitated by that land being nationalised and then re-distributed on the basis of direct democracy to these district powers.

[Cael]

I don't think their policies are as dogmatic as you make out. In Saol Nua they call for the nationalisation of the commanding heights of industry and productivity, while O'Bradaigh wrote of the need for industrial democracy and investigated collectivist farming and worker's co-ops. Aside from this, Eire Nua calls for full de-centralisation of power to district levels, something that could only be properly facilitated by that land being nationalised and then re-distributed on the basis of direct democracy to these district powers.

Yes, but when you look further into it, they are not really talking about nationalisation as a Marxist would mean it. They're talking about a kind of voluntary selling of land to the state and then distributing that land. This is exactly what Fianna Fáil were doing in the 1930s, and distributism in the IRA was adopted in the 30s as a kind of Catholic version of Socialism and a reaction to the Republican Congress. Private property is protected at all points. Eire Nua also sticks to a representational system, which would always ensure bourgeois rule.

[*Red*Alert]

I wouldn't either, but I don't think they are any worse than PSF.
They're much weaker, at least Sinn Fein can get things done at the moment, though reformism, as has been pointed out, is a dead end strategy. I intend to sit it out until a new strategy can be pursued.

[Cael]

There have been some suggestions from RNU sources of holding a Second Republic Congress. Probably that is the only hope of getting an effective Socialist movement going in Ireland.

[PRC-UTE]

There have been some suggestions from RNU sources of holding a Second Republic Congress. Probably that is the only hope of getting an effective Socialist movement going in Ireland.

I was just reading that blog earlier. I'm not too keen on that idea. I don't think the IRFU is doing much of anything worthwhile either. The main problem is that for most republicans their idea of good political work is having a commemoration.

[F9]

Jorge Miquel you were warned for trolling, but you continue from where you stoped!Please stop trolling, and dont post unless you have really something to say.Last warning..

[bie]

Just on a point of information then, do they have any members under sixty?

Yes. They have.

I wonder how is the LISBON campaign going for you? How many leaflets have you distributed?

[Cael]

Yes. They have.

I wonder how is the LISBON campaign going for you? How many leaflets have you distributed?

If you are in the CPI maybe you can tell us why you support the GFA?

[Cael]

I was just reading that blog earlier. I'm not too keen on that idea. I don't think the IRFU is doing much of anything worthwhile either. The main problem is that for most republicans their idea of good political work is having a commemoration.

No the IRFU has achieved nothing. But a Republican Congress would be based on Socialism. Bourgeois nationalists wouldnt be welcome. Your gibe about Republicans is just silly.

[PRC-UTE]

No the IRFU has achieved nothing. But a Republican Congress would be based on Socialism. Bourgeois nationalists wouldnt be welcome. Your gibe about Republicans is just silly.

I think non-socialist republicanism is at a complete dead end. They can't even think up new slogans. That's not a silly criticism to make.

[*Red*Alert]

I'd welcome the idea of a Republican Congress based on Socialism, if it proved to be effective I'd actually drop bourgeoisie nationalism/reformism and I would imagine a good few others would as well.

[Jorge Miguel]

If you are in the CPI maybe you can tell us why you support the GFA?

From their website -
"The Communist Party’s support for the Good Friday Agreement is based on the opportunity it provides for that dynamic, not for those in power but for those who have been kept out of power through divisions within the working class based on sectarianism and border politics. "

Same as any other trendy leftie arguement to be honest which is a complete negation of Leninism. But there we go. The CPI also have their programme for sale in Connolly Books, Cael.

[*Red*Alert]

The CPI also have their programme for sale in Connolly Books, Cael.

Not very anti-Capitalism, is it?

[Jorge Miguel]

Not very anti-Capitalism, is it?
What?

A Shinner lecturing with no sense of irony.... Bobby Story, Danny Morrison and Spike Murray between them own assets in the millions of pounds. Wise up to yourself.

[Cael]

I think non-socialist republicanism is at a complete dead end. They can't even think up new slogans. That's not a silly criticism to make.

Well, non Socialist Republicanism is just bourgeois nonsense - completely worthless.

[Seven Stars]

Actually none of them have a Communist policy in that none of them have a policy of land nationalisation.

The IRSP is a Marxist party, while this doesn't directly mention "land nationalisation" I think it makes our postion quite clear:

"The object of the IRSM remains a 32-county socialist republic, wherein the Irish working class will control the means of production, distribution and exchange, administered by the proletariat through workers' democracy."
- http://irsm.org/history/whatis.html

From the 2000 IRSP Ard Fheis:

"This Ard Fheis affirms,
a) that the IRSP is a revolutionary Marxist organization, and that by this we mean that the IRSP believes:
b) Class conflict is the motive force in human history;
c) The IRSP stands unreservedly and exclusively for the interests of the working class against all others;
d) Only the creation of a 32-county Irish socialist republic can provide the means by which Irish national liberation can be realized;
e) That there can be no socialism without national liberation in Ireland, nor can there be national liberation without socialism;
f) That there is no parliamentary road to socialism, because socialism cannot be forged by seizing the bourgeois State apparatus; nor is there a guerilla road to socialism, because a social revolution requires the active participation of the masses; and therefore that a socialist republic can only be established through the mass revolutionary action of the working class in the political, economic, and social spheres;
g) That socialism means the ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange collectively by the entire working class, with an end to wage labour, an end to production for profit and its replacement by a system of production based on human need; and
h) That socialism must be administered democratically by the working class itself, recognising that the class dictatorship of the workers, because the vast majority of society is formed by that class. This does not suggest the need for a political dictatorship of a single party. Rather it calls out for a class dictatorship, administered through new working class institutions created to permit the greatest degree of political freedom for all working people."

From the 2004 Ard Fheis:

"1. Ard-Fheis reaffirms that the IRSP is a republican socialist party influenced by the writings of Tone, Marx, Engels, Lenin, Connolly, Mellows, Costello, and Power."

[Seven Stars]

I intend to sit it out until a new strategy can be pursued.

That would be Republican Socialism a chara, the politics of Connolly, Costello, and Power. :cool:

[Cael]

The IRSP is a Marxist party, while this doesn't directly mention "land nationalisation" I think it makes our postion quite clear:

"The object of the IRSM remains a 32-county socialist republic, wherein the Irish working class will control the means of production, distribution and exchange, administered by the proletariat through workers' democracy."
- http://irsm.org/history/whatis.html

From the 2000 IRSP Ard Fheis:

"This Ard Fheis affirms,
a) that the IRSP is a revolutionary Marxist organization, and that by this we mean that the IRSP believes:
b) Class conflict is the motive force in human history;
c) The IRSP stands unreservedly and exclusively for the interests of the working class against all others;
d) Only the creation of a 32-county Irish socialist republic can provide the means by which Irish national liberation can be realized;
e) That there can be no socialism without national liberation in Ireland, nor can there be national liberation without socialism;
f) That there is no parliamentary road to socialism, because socialism cannot be forged by seizing the bourgeois State apparatus; nor is there a guerilla road to socialism, because a social revolution requires the active participation of the masses; and therefore that a socialist republic can only be established through the mass revolutionary action of the working class in the political, economic, and social spheres;
g) That socialism means the ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange collectively by the entire working class, with an end to wage labour, an end to production for profit and its replacement by a system of production based on human need; and
h) That socialism must be administered democratically by the working class itself, recognising that the class dictatorship of the workers, because the vast majority of society is formed by that class. This does not suggest the need for a political dictatorship of a single party. Rather it calls out for a class dictatorship, administered through new working class institutions created to permit the greatest degree of political freedom for all working people."

From the 2004 Ard Fheis:

"1. Ard-Fheis reaffirms that the IRSP is a republican socialist party influenced by the writings of Tone, Marx, Engels, Lenin, Connolly, Mellows, Costello, and Power."



Unfortunately, this leaves quite a bit of wriggle room on the question of land nationalisation. It seems to me that there is a fear of saying the words, and until the words are said, the IRSP won't be a fully Marxist organisation. I say this in a comradely spirit, as I would certainly say the IRSP are the closest thing Ireland has to a Marxist organisation.

[CamiloTorres]

Yes, but when you look further into it, they are not really talking about nationalisation as a Marxist would mean it. They're talking about a kind of voluntary selling of land to the state and then distributing that land. This is exactly what Fianna Fáil were doing in the 1930s, and distributism in the IRA was adopted in the 30s as a kind of Catholic version of Socialism and a reaction to the Republican Congress. Private property is protected at all points. Eire Nua also sticks to a representational system, which would always ensure bourgeois rule.

I agree, they don't use nationalisation as a Marxist would because they're not a Marxist party. However, the only other alternative to Marxism isn't Catholic distributism. Eire Nua and Saol Nua are explicitly based on democratic socialist ideas, but at the same time your argument that land would be voluntarily sold is meaningless because as the true government of Ireland the Republican Movement already claims ownership over the land and the right to do as they please with it. If we follow Eire Nua and Saol Nua that would be creating a "community of communities" in Ireland, something akin to the community council idea currently gaining precedence in some Republic thinking.


Well, non Socialist Republicanism is just bourgeois nonsense - completely worthless.

I disagree with this, just because some Republicans don’t use explicitly socialist or Marxist language doesn’t mean they don’t agree with its ideas. Republicanism, as the ideology of freedom, liberty and equality embodies many socialist concepts already, so by definition is a progressive force rather than a bourgeois nationalist one.

On the whole I agree with the idea of a Republican Congress based on socialist ideas. One of the best ways to try and create change is by getting all Republican and socialist groups together based on our shared ideas, there is no need for the most progressive ideologies in Ireland to be divided when combined our force would be much stronger. I commend the RNU for putting the idea forward and I hope to see some steps toward it in the near future.

[Jorge Miguel]

Unfortunately, this leaves quite a bit of wriggle room on the question of land nationalisation. It seems to me that there is a fear of saying the words, and until the words are said, the IRSP won't be a fully Marxist organisation.lol. because the IRSP dont satisfy the demand of an austisic, they're not a "fully" Marxist organisation? The IRSP are many things, but arguing they aren't "fully Marxist" because they don't have a policy on "land nationalisation" (they do) is the reason why they arnt "fully Marxist" is nonsense and it's obvious that you've had little encounter with IRSP members if that's your only criticism as to why they're not "fully Marxist".

Try starting with the fact they undergo zero ideological work and many of their members would be best described as apolitical militarists.

[Cael]

I agree, they don't use nationalisation as a Marxist would because they're not a Marxist party. However, the only other alternative to Marxism isn't Catholic distributism. Eire Nua and Saol Nua are explicitly based on democratic socialist ideas, but at the same time your argument that land would be voluntarily sold is meaningless because as the true government of Ireland the Republican Movement already claims ownership over the land and the right to do as they please with it. If we follow Eire Nua and Saol Nua that would be creating a "community of communities" in Ireland, something akin to the community council idea currently gaining precedence in some Republic thinking.



I disagree with this, just because some Republicans don’t use explicitly socialist or Marxist language doesn’t mean they don’t agree with its ideas. Republicanism, as the ideology of freedom, liberty and equality embodies many socialist concepts already, so by definition is a progressive force rather than a bourgeois nationalist one.

On the whole I agree with the idea of a Republican Congress based on socialist ideas. One of the best ways to try and create change is by getting all Republican and socialist groups together based on our shared ideas, there is no need for the most progressive ideologies in Ireland to be divided when combined our force would be much stronger. I commend the RNU for putting the idea forward and I hope to see some steps toward it in the near future.

I assure you that Eire Nua and Saol Nua protects private property. There is no question of taking land from landowners by force. Even the free state claims juristiction over all the land of the 26 counties and can make a compulsary purchase order at any time. Eire Nua does not go further than this.

[CamiloTorres]

I assure you that Eire Nua and Saol Nua protects private property. There is no question of taking land from landowners by force. Even the free state claims juristiction over all the land of the 26 counties and can make a compulsary purchase order at any time. Eire Nua does not go further than this.

The new structures outlined in Eire Nua and expanded upon in Saol Nua would give the authority to local councils to do as they wish with the land, so it would be entirely up to the people through the mechanism of direct democracy to decide what to do with the land and property in their area.

[Cael]

The new structures outlined in Eire Nua and expanded upon in Saol Nua would give the authority to local councils to do as they wish with the land, so it would be entirely up to the people through the mechanism of direct democracy to decide what to do with the land and property in their area.

Your very wrong there. Private property is fully protected by Saol Nua and Eire Nua. At no point in either document does it say that the land of Ireland will be collectivised. ROB himself has described forced nationalisation as tyranny.

[Cael]

lol. because the IRSP dont satisfy the demand of an austisic, they're not a "fully" Marxist organisation? The IRSP are many things, but arguing they aren't "fully Marxist" because they don't have a policy on "land nationalisation" (they do) is the reason why they arnt "fully Marxist" is nonsense and it's obvious that you've had little encounter with IRSP members if that's your only criticism as to why they're not "fully Marxist".

Try starting with the fact they undergo zero ideological work and many of their members would be best described as apolitical militarists.

It seems the owners of this site have no respect for themselves or for socialism - otherwise a hopeless troll like you would have been banned long ago. You were banned off Irishrepublican.net for posting filth, but it seems anything goes here. You are no Socialist.

[CamiloTorres]

Your very wrong there. Private property is fully protected by Saol Nua and Eire Nua. At no point in either document does it say that the land of Ireland will be collectivised. ROB himself has described forced nationalisation as tyranny.

Neither are Marxist documents, so you're correct that neither would end the concept of private property. However, going by ROB's own history and investigations into collectivist farming, it is clear that the documents aren't averse to the idea of nationalising land. Perhaps the main difference is that RSF would rather people volunteered to work in communes and worker's co-ops rather than being forced into them, going by the idea of direct democracy as they do. With the Republic's claim over all the land of Ireland and the direct democratic structure that would govern it, it would be up to those who lived in a particular area to do as they wish with their land. Thus, no one is terrorised into giving up their land, but allowed to participate in its betterment with their fellow citizens of the new democracy.

[Cael]

Neither are Marxist documents, so you're correct that neither would end the concept of private property. However, going by ROB's own history and investigations into collectivist farming, it is clear that the documents aren't averse to the idea of nationalising land. Perhaps the main difference is that RSF would rather people volunteered to work in communes and worker's co-ops rather than being forced into them, going by the idea of direct democracy as they do. With the Republic's claim over all the land of Ireland and the direct democratic structure that would govern it, it would be up to those who lived in a particular area to do as they wish with their land. Thus, no one is terrorised into giving up their land, but allowed to participate in its betterment with their fellow citizens of the new democracy.

And I suppose the landowners of Ireland can be convinced to give up their land voluntarily? Not a chance. No, a chara. I defended Eire Nua and Saol Nua for a long time but following extensive investigations I realised that they are a complete cop out. RSF wants to hang on to the few small farmers who support them, and they will not upset them in any way by talking about Marxism or land collectivisation.

[CamiloTorres]

And I suppose the landowners of Ireland can be convinced to give up their land voluntarily? Not a chance. No, a chara. I defended Eire Nua and Saol Nua for a long time but following extensive investigations I realised that they are a complete cop out. RSF wants to hang on to the few small farmers who support them, and they will not upset them in any way by talking about Marxism or land collectivisation.

How to deal with those who won't give up all their land should be left to the council dealing with a particular area. I don't see the problem with small farmers either, shouldn't we worry more about those who have a monopoly on land or exploit others for their own benefit? Besides, there are a million reasons why RSF don't talk about Marxism but I doubt alienation of small farmers would be a prominent one.

[Soldier of life]

I agree, they don't use nationalisation as a Marxist would because they're not a Marxist party. However, the only other alternative to Marxism isn't Catholic distributism. Eire Nua and Saol Nua are explicitly based on democratic socialist ideas, but at the same time your argument that land would be voluntarily sold is meaningless because as the true government of Ireland the Republican Movement already claims ownership over the land and the right to do as they please with it. If we follow Eire Nua and Saol Nua that would be creating a "community of communities" in Ireland, something akin to the community council idea currently gaining precedence in some Republic thinking.



I disagree with this, just because some Republicans don’t use explicitly socialist or Marxist language doesn’t mean they don’t agree with its ideas. Republicanism, as the ideology of freedom, liberty and equality embodies many socialist concepts already, so by definition is a progressive force rather than a bourgeois nationalist one.

On the whole I agree with the idea of a Republican Congress based on socialist ideas. One of the best ways to try and create change is by getting all Republican and socialist groups together based on our shared ideas, there is no need for the most progressive ideologies in Ireland to be divided when combined our force would be much stronger. I commend the RNU for putting the idea forward and I hope to see some steps toward it in the near future.


Two RSF supporters lecturing the IRSP on marxism:trotski:

I think we all have just entered the twilight zone.

Please explain why the IRSP are not a marxist party? The IRSP are for the nationalisation of land. Just a wee tip lads, get off the internet and actually meet members of groups and discuss the politics of the party with them, perhaps then ye wouldn't be so ignorant.And please shut up about RSF being the legitimate anything, RSF the aging dinosaurs are dying out, and thank god for that.

[Cael]

Two RSF supporters lecturing the IRSP on marxism:trotski:

I think we all have just entered the twilight zone.

Please explain why the IRSP are not a marxist party? The IRSP are for the nationalisation of land. Just a wee tip lads, get off the internet and actually meet members of groups and discuss the politics of the party with them, perhaps then ye wouldn't be so ignorant.And please shut up about RSF being the legitimate anything, RSF the aging dinosaurs are dying out, and thank god for that.

Here's a wee tip for you. Parties that are in favour of land nationalisation put that in their written programs.

[Cael]

How to deal with those who won't give up all their land should be left to the council dealing with a particular area. I don't see the problem with small farmers either, shouldn't we worry more about those who have a monopoly on land or exploit others for their own benefit? Besides, there are a million reasons why RSF don't talk about Marxism but I doubt alienation of small farmers would be a prominent one.

Well, name one other reason then?

[PRC-UTE]

Here's a wee tip for you. Parties that are in favour of land nationalisation put that in their written programs.

The IRSP has done so repeatedly. If you reject that because you don't understand the IRSP when it says it stands for a "32-county socialist republic, wherein the Irish working class will control the means of production, distribution and exchange", than that's your problem.

[Cael]

The IRSP has done so repeatedly. If you reject that because you don't understand the IRSP when it says it stands for a "32-county socialist republic, wherein the Irish working class will control the means of production, distribution and exchange", than that's your problem.

RSF has nearly the exact same words in Saol Nua. In fact, even the free state claims control over the means of production, distribution and exchange, in that it has legal control on all of the above and taxes all of the above. If you're for the nationalisation of the land you have to say the words, not hint at it.

[PRC-UTE]

RSF has nearly the exact same words in Saol Nua. In fact, even the free state claims control over the means of production, distribution and exchange, in that it has legal control on all of the above and taxes all of the above. If you're for the nationalisation of the land you have to say the words, not hint at it.

Wrong again. Ireland is not a feudal economy, and the free state hardly controls any capital in Ireland- 92% of its exports in 2006 were imperialist capital.

[Cael]

Wrong again. Ireland is not a feudal economy, and the free state hardly controls any capital in Ireland- 92% of its exports in 2006 were imperialist capital.

And all capital that comes into the free state is subject to free state law and taxes. By the way, what do you think of mocking people with Down Syndrome?

[PRC-UTE]

And all capital that comes into the free state is subject to free state law and taxes. By the way, what do you think of mocking people with Down Syndrome?

Taxes are not the same as controlling the means of production, distribution and exchange.

[Seven Stars]

And all capital that comes into the free state is subject to free state law and taxes. By the way, what do you think of mocking people with Down Syndrome?

Well duh, what's your point? The Free State still does NOT control the means of production, distribution and exchange; it is a capitalist state. The bourgeoisie does. I do not get why you're so focused on one small aspect of communism (land nationalization).

[Cael]

Well duh, what's your point? The Free State still does NOT control the means of production, distribution and exchange; it is a capitalist state. The bourgeoisie does. I do not get why you're so focused on one small aspect of communism (land nationalization).

The bottom line is that the IRSP dont have a written policy on land nationalisation. Like all Republican parties its has some vague and deniable wording on the land belonging to the people - but it doesnt go any further.

[Le Libérer]

Incorrect.

CHARLIE MURPHYI have issued Jorge Miquel an infraction for flaming.
Off topic posts trashed.

[pastradamus]

And all capital that comes into the free state is subject to free state law and taxes.

Well, no. Its not actually. How many US Private Enterprise companies left under the guise of the recent recession?

Better yet, How many of these companies actually EVER paid Corporation tax to the Government? Dell? Banta Global Turnkey? Gateway? Swissco?. . . . All left when their tax free incentives were almost expired and which also caused the collapse of working class lives and standards, whilst Union demands were almost Ignored in some cases and fully ignored in the cases of Dell and Swissco.

[Cael]

I have issued Jorge Miquel an infraction for flaming.
Off topic posts trashed.

You describe mocking handicapped people as "flaming?" On a well run website he would be banned for such an offense, not just given infractions. Some Socialists! If you cant defend hanicapped people, I wouldnt have any confidence in you defending the working class. This site is a disgrace.

[Seven Stars]

The bottom line is that the IRSP dont have a written policy on land nationalisation. Like all Republican parties its has some vague and deniable wording on the land belonging to the people - but it doesnt go any further.

Bottom line is that you have no understanding of marxist theory.

[Soldier of life]

Cael does he count as disabled?:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9835/01b0dj.jpg

[Cael]

Bottom line is that you have no understanding of marxist theory.


What does Marxist theory have to say about mocking people with down syndome?

[Soldier of life]

What does Marxist theory have to say about mocking people with down syndome?

Well if you want to quote marx on it go ahead? I'm happy with the quote in my signature

[Seven Stars]

Cael does he count as disabled?:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9835/01b0dj.jpg

He has done more work than you or I probably ever will. This is uncalled for a chara. He's a great Republican, someone we can all learn something from.

[Cael]

Considering that posts on ir.net aren't deleted, but moved to the bin visable to administrators, why not screenshot it and post it up? :rolleyes:

So again, if I did this, why do your administrators (the same people who read user's private messages) allow me to post under another account?

Either put up or shut up.

If we find out what other account you are using, you can be sure you will be banned. Irishrepublican.net actually has moderators.

[Soldier of life]

He has done more work than you or I probably ever will. This is uncalled for a chara. He's a great Republican, someone we can all learn something from.


Ruairi O'Bradaigh...'the wedge between communism in Ireland'

Between accusing seamus costello of rigging ardfheis' and thinking he's the president of Ireland, I think its time the RSF gift shop put the ROB mugs away in the cubbard

[Soldier of life]

If we find out what other account you are using, you can be sure you will be banned. Irishrepublican.net actually has moderators.

Obviously not very astute ones.

Jorge Miquel rides again!

[Jorge Miguel]

If we find out what other account you are using, you can be sure you will be banned. Irishrepublican.net actually has moderators.Laughable. Considering my IP is the same and I have emails from the administrator saying I could re-register.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w12/napkincutter/Cartman-Special-Olympics-256x256.png


http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/55/92055-004-46B523ED.jpg

[Seven Stars]

Ruairi O'Bradaigh...'the wedge between communism in Ireland'

Between accusing seamus costello of rigging ardfheis' and thinking he's the president of Ireland, I think its time the RSF gift shop put the ROB mugs away in the cubbard

If you would have read his biography you would know he respected Costello and attended his funeral.

[Cael]

If you would have read his biography you would know he respected Costello and attended his funeral.

Do you have nothing to say about mocking disabled people?

[Cael]

Obviously not very astute ones.

Jorge Miquel rides again!

Well, dont worry, your IP addresses will be checked very soon. Its not a hippy democracy over there you know. Racists and posters of child porn are not tolerated.

[pastradamus]

For the last time. Stop the personal attacks and vendettas. If you want to talk Irish republicanism and insult each other with personal threats than here's not the place to do it.

[Cael]

For the last time. Stop the personal attacks and vendettas. If you want to talk Irish republicanism and insult each other with personal threats than here's not the place to do it.

You'll find that it was not the Irish Republicans that started the trolling or posting up offending pictures. Not Socialists either - just idiots, who have been given an incredible amount of indulgence.

[Le Libérer]

For the last time. Stop the personal attacks and vendettas. If you want to talk Irish republicanism and insult each other with personal threats than here's not the place to do it.For this reason I am closing this thread.