The light hair map of Europe

[pastradamus]

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/blond_hair_map1.jpg



I found this interesting. For one instance, notice how the End of Italy(the heel of the boot, where Bari is) has a rather large portion of blonde people (29-49%) where as the rest does not.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I guess this refutes the common stereotype that ALL Scandinavians are blonde, considering Norway, Sweden, etc are mostly in the 50-79% category. It's also interesting how in the more northern regions the people generally have lighter hair since they generally have less color pigment in their skin.

[9]

This is really cool, thanks for posting it. I was going to say that a world map which included red hair would be very interesting as well, though now that I think of it, I'm not sure that red hair is dominant anywhere? Although I'd expect it to be the case somewhere. "Scotland" pops into my head reflexively, but this is based more on the stereotype of red-head Scots as opposed to any actual evidence that a majority of Scots have red hair. An eyecolor map would also be interesting, especially if it took into account the myriad different combinations (green-brown, grey, "reddish"-brown, yellow-green-brown-blue-grey :laugh:etc.) My stomach turns just thinking about all the years of tedious research that would be necessary to document the prevalence of different eye colors/shades/combinations spanning the entire globe. Still, it'd be profoundly interesting.

[Manifesto]

An eyecolor map would also be interesting, especially if it took into account the myriad different combinations (green-brown, grey, "reddish"-brown, yellow-green-brown-blue-grey :laugh:etc.)
An eye color would be harder than a hair color one though.

[9]

An eye color would be harder than a hair color one though.

No doubt, particularly on a global scale and with a focus far broader than the rather drab and wholly insufficient "brown, blue, green" continuum. I'd pity the sociologists/anthropologists who took up that beast of a project.

[Revy]

Apikoros, the red hair stereotype is the Irish. Which is actually incorrect for the most part. the truth is the Irish have a lot of descent from Iberia, where there is more darker hair. the stereotype about the lighter hair has to do with Viking and Saxon genetic influence, I believe. the original Celts in the Isles were of mostly Iberian heritage. This contradicts the prevailing assumption that Celtic peoples in the Isles came from Northern Europe.

source
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people#Genetics)

[9]

Apikoros, the red hair stereotype is the Irish. Which is actually incorrect for the most part. the truth is the Irish have a lot of descent from Iberia, where there is more darker hair. the stereotype about the lighter hair has to do with Viking and Saxon genetic influence, I believe. the original Celts in the Isles were of mostly Iberian heritage. This contradicts the prevailing assumption that Celtic peoples in the Isles came from Northern Europe.

source
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people#Genetics)

While you've certainly made an interesting claim, I'd simply assert that my sources are a bit more solid, namely the following:

http://a2.vox.com/6a00b8ea06ece0dece00c2251c31a2549d-500pi

[RedAnarchist]

I didn't think Britain would have so many blonde people. Most people around where I have brown hair, and many of the blond-haired people dyed it.

[eyedrop]

I didn't think Britain would have so many blonde people. Most people around where I have brown hair, and many of the blond-haired people dyed it. And I am wondering how blonde hair have to be before they define it as blonde. Their criteria must be be way more liberal than mine, since I don't see over 80% of the people here as blonde as I should according to the map.

[Revy]

A lot of people who in early life (childhood) were blond , their hair darkens as they get older. I don't know why, but I've seen it in a lot of my family members. I've got dark brown hair , always had it , but my mother, sister and brother all had blond hair which darkened. Of course, my sister keeps dying it blonde to cover it up.

[RedAnarchist]

A lot of people who in early life (childhood) were blond , their hair darkens as they get older. I don't know why, but I've seen it in a lot of my family members. I've got dark brown hair , always had it , but my mother, sister and brother all had blond hair which darkened. Of course, my sister keeps dying it blonde to cover it up.

That happens in my family too - my sister and three brothers were all born with really light blonde hair that darkened to dark brown eventually. I was born with black hair myself (my parents have very dark hair).

[ComradeOm]

Interesting to see how Galicia and Brittany share the same percentages as Ireland and the Scottish Highlands. I'm surprised that its so neat

The pale around around Bari is odd though. There were Greek/Byzantine colonies there until around 1000AD but that wouldn't explain it. Similarly the following period of Norman dominance would have made little impact on the genetic make-up of the population, and in any case this affected all of Naples. Puzzling :confused:


And I am wondering how blonde hair have to be before they define it as blonde. Their criteria must be be way more liberal than mine, since I don't see over 80% of the people here as blonde as I should according to the map.Note that the map does not say "blonde" but rather "light"

[eyedrop]

Note that the map does not say "blonde" but rather "light"

Ahh... The tread name can be somewhat misleading.

Neverhteless interesting map.

[Invincible Summer]

I find the percentage categories quite large... 50-79%? That's basically saying "either 5 out of 10 or 8 out of 10 people will be light-haired." That's a huge difference.

[pastradamus]

And I am wondering how blonde hair have to be before they define it as blonde. Their criteria must be be way more liberal than mine, since I don't see over 80% of the people here as blonde as I should according to the map.

There are a few things about this map. Firstly, the Map caters for people BORN in the said regions with that particular hair colour. For example I was born with blonde hair now I have brown hair. The Map also does not take account of Immigrants who were not born in the country.

[pastradamus]

The pale around around Bari is odd though. There were Greek/Byzantine colonies there until around 1000AD but that wouldn't explain it. Similarly the following period of Norman dominance would have made little impact on the genetic make-up of the population, and in any case this affected all of Naples. Puzzling :confused:


The Norman Impact does make a difference here. The Normans settled in Sicily and in the Naples area. At the time "naples" meant the whole of Southern Italy. This was all during a time when Italy was dominated by Blonde Haired Peoples in the South. The reason that Bari is in light grey is because It was not largely settled, Conquered(only for 16 years) or influenced by the Moors. Moors are the reason why people in Modern Spain and Italy have dark skin, Dark Hair and Dark eyes when compared to northern Europe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Italia_Regno_di_Napoli_locator.svg/442px-Italia_Regno_di_Napoli_locator.svg.png

[ev]

Thanks for posting this, interesting material..

[RedRise]

An eyecolor map would also be interesting, especially if it took into account the myriad different combinations (green-brown, grey, "reddish"-brown, yellow-green-brown-blue-grey etc.)

Hair colour can be as varying as eye-colour. People disagree over wether my eyes are blue, green, grey, navy blue, yellowish or various combinations of the three. They disagree just as much on wether my hair is blond, brown, mouse, light brown, dark blond or strawberry blond. And that's before you get to my baffling streaks.:blink: When I was born I had black hair, then it was blond, now it's darker. What I'd like to know is how does this map differentiate between the various shades? Personally I'd never classify myself as being blond or having light hair, but some do.:confused:

[OneNamedNameLess]

though now that I think of it, I'm not sure that red hair is dominant anywhere? Although I'd expect it to be the case somewhere. "Scotland" pops into my head reflexively, but this is based more on the stereotype of red-head Scots.

:rolleyes: It's only 10% or something.

This sounds like a Stormfront thread but it is interesting all the same. There are a small percentage of redheads in northern Italy too which I have always found interesting. I would quite like to see a middle eastern one. Northern Afghans' and northern Indians' light complexions have always fascinated me, especially the number of people who have green eyes.

[RedAnarchist]

This sounds like a Stormfront thread but it is interesting all the same.

It can't be, we haven't whined about the Jewish conspiracy or declared the supremacy of blond white people yet.

[Dimentio]

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/blond_hair_map1.jpg



I found this interesting. For one instance, notice how the End of Italy(the heel of the boot, where Bari is) has a rather large portion of blonde people (29-49%) where as the rest does not.

Bari was the seat of the Normans during the medieval times. I guess thats one of the reasons.

[Demogorgon]

I don't think that is very accurate. Nothing like 50% of people here are blonde.

Unless you are counting the current fashion of bleaching it, I suppose.

[ComradeOm]

The Norman Impact does make a difference here. The Normans settled in Sicily and in the Naples area. At the time "naples" meant the whole of Southern Italy. This was all during a time when Italy was dominated by Blonde Haired Peoples in the SouthThe Normans were notoriously removed from the populations that they governed. They formed a ruling caste of warriors, not a new wave of settlers. I'd expect their genetic footprint to be minimal. Indeed, as you note, that they ruled all of Naples and Sicily discounts them as a factor in Bari


The reason that Bari is in light grey is because It was not largely settled, Conquered(only for 16 years) or influenced by the MoorsA more convincing reason. The only problem is that Bari was indeed the seat of a Muslim emirate for at least two decades (840 or 847 to 871). This was, alongside the emirate of Taranto the only notable Muslim presence on the mainland. A handful of minor inland towns were also seized, and pirate raids were a constant threat, but the Saracens never conquered Naples as they did Sicily or otherwise displaced the Christian duchies of Naples or Apulia/Calabria


Moors are the reason why people in Modern Spain and Italy have dark skin, Dark Hair and Dark eyes when compared to northern Europe.Really? I must have somehow forgotten the Moorish conquest of Italy, France, and Leon/Castille...

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I don't think that is very accurate. Nothing like 50% of people here are blonde.

I guess that's why it says "light hair" rather than "blonde".

[Dimentio]

The Normans were notoriously removed from the populations that they governed. They formed a ruling caste of warriors, not a new wave of settlers. I'd expect their genetic footprint to be minimal. Indeed, as you note, that they ruled all of Naples and Sicily discounts them as a factor in Bari

A more convincing reason. The only problem is that Bari was indeed the seat of a Muslim emirate for at least two decades (840 or 847 to 871). This was, alongside the emirate of Taranto the only notable Muslim presence on the mainland. A handful of minor inland towns were also seized, and pirate raids were a constant threat, but the Saracens never conquered Naples as they did Sicily or otherwise displaced the Christian duchies of Naples or Apulia/Calabria

Really? I must have somehow forgotten the Moorish conquest of Italy, France, and Leon/Castille...

The Normans used to institute prima noctae :(

[Il Medico]

It can't be, we haven't whined about the Jewish conspiracy or declared the supremacy of blond white people yet.
But I thought we were the Jewish conspiracy???

[RedAnarchist]

But I thought we were the Jewish conspiracy???

Oh yeah, that's why.

[NecroCommie]

notice how the End of Italy(the heel of the boot, where Bari is) has a rather large portion of blonde people (29-49%) where as the rest does not.
This is because of the ancient Norman colony in the area.


I don't think that is very accurate. Nothing like 50% of people here are blonde.

Unless you are counting the current fashion of bleaching it, I suppose.
What we nords count as brunette can be considered blonde in some parts of the world. It is all very relative, and dependand on the exact definition.

As to what someone said about the stereotype of all Nordic folks being blond, thats right it's only a stupid stereotype. It is however believed that sometime around the bronze- or iron age all nords did have blond hair.

[ComradeOm]

The Normans used to institute prima noctae :(The very existence of that practice is a myth

[pastradamus]

The very existence of that practice is a myth

Thats true. This was a Hollywood device used in brave heart. Its complete tripe.

[pastradamus]

The Normans were notoriously removed from the populations that they governed. They formed a ruling caste of warriors, not a new wave of settlers. I'd expect their genetic footprint to be minimal. Indeed, as you note, that they ruled all of Naples and Sicily discounts them as a factor in Bari

Though they did have a seat there. We dont know much about their behaviour back then but there's no guarentee that they did not mingle with the population. Also the fact that ruling parties often mix with local Nobles stir's up debate on this issue.


A more convincing reason. The only problem is that Bari was indeed the seat of a Muslim emirate for at least two decades (840 or 847 to 871). This was, alongside the emirate of Taranto the only notable Muslim presence on the mainland. A handful of minor inland towns were also seized, and pirate raids were a constant threat, but the Saracens never conquered Naples as they did Sicily or otherwise displaced the Christian duchies of Naples or Apulia/CalabriaThats very true. But thats why im arguing for the reason of the blonde map showing a small area around bari. Though we could be on this issue all day and it'll still be just opinion.


Really? I must have somehow forgotten the Moorish conquest of Italy, France, and Leon/Castille...
Moors, refers to several groups from North Africa.

On the issue of Italy you had mainly influences from North Africa, Turkey beit trading or conquest. Slowly over the years people mixed and that explains why most Italians look the way they look today. Keeping in mind that julius Caesar had Blonde hair and blue eyes as did a lot of people at that time in Italy and Spain. Sure the Names are different, beit Moors, Cathars (france) or Berbers.

[ComradeOm]

Though they did have a seat there. We dont know much about their behaviour back then but there's no guarentee that they did not mingle with the population. Also the fact that ruling parties often mix with local Nobles stir's up debate on this issueWhich may be the case but it still fails to explain why only the area surrounding Bari and Taranto is light haired when the Normans ruled all of Naples and Sicily. If the Normans are the cause for this genetic footprint then surely the likes of Salerno, Capua, Naples, Reggio, etc, would display similar traits?


Thats very true. But thats why im arguing for the reason of the blonde map showing a small area around bariBut you said that Bari was not dark because it had not been settled by Arabs. As it is Bari (along with Taranto) was the only major area of mainland Italy that was conquered and influenced by Arabs. That Bari is lighter is evidence that the genetic impact of this Arab influence was minimal but it still doesn't explain the difference with the rest of Naples...

Of course I've got no answers myself. At this stage I'm inclined to believe the map is at fault. I think these bands are simply too broad to mean much. Certainly there's no answer in amateur genetic anthropology


On the issue of Italy you had mainly influences from North Africa, Turkey beit trading or conquest. Slowly over the years people mixed and that explains why most Italians look the way they look todayPlease, the impact of Arabic trade can hardly be weighed against the various waves of Lombard and Germanic rulers. There has never been any Arab influence of note in Central Italy or France. Italians tend to be dark because of the climate they live in


Keeping in mind that julius Caesar had Blonde hair and blue eyes as did a lot of people at that time in Italy and SpainAnd Sulla was famously red headed. But then both of these were Roman and AFAIK the general consensus is that Roman hair colour, despite plenty of variance, was generally dark without being black. The wider Italian peninsula, which is not the same as 'Roman', (obviously more so the south than the north) has always been dark in the typical Mediterranean fashion


Sure the Names are different, beit Moors, Cathars (france) or Berbers.What? The Cathars were not Muslim or Arabic; they were a religious sect indigenous to the south of France :confused:

[Pawn Power]

I found this interesting. For one instance, notice how the End of Italy(the heel of the boot, where Bari is) has a rather large portion of blonde people (29-49%) where as the rest does not.


The northern region of Italy also has a higher percentage- which obviously steams from the its proximity to Austria/Germany. It is important to remember that these distinctions have little to do with the imaginary lines set of by states. The northern part of Italy happens to be within the lines of the nation of Italy but that doesn't mean they share certain features. The distribution of phenotypes has little to do with the boundaries set up by nations but is connected to the historical distribution of people.

Southern Italy also has higher rates of Sickled Cell Anemia, particularity children of two southern Italian parents. This part of Italy is pretty close to Africa.

[aty]

I dont think that map is very accurate. I live in the parts where it is supposed to be 80% or more with blonde hair and it is not that much. I dont know exactly when you are blonde but i would classify my hair as light-brown. Maybe 40%-50% are real blondes.

[Luís Henrique]

The very existence of that practice is a myth

http://books.google.com.br/books?id=F8wUwbvO0mkC&pg=PA142&dq=primae+noctis&as_brr=3&ei=CoueSsunL43AygS_6-j9Dg&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=primae%20noctis&f=false

Luís Henrique