American Radical: The Trials of Norman Finkelstein

[Die Rote Fahne]

American Radical: The Trials of Norman Finkelstein.

It's a documentary about Norman Finkelstein. He is a Jewish American who is very critical of Israel and it's misuse of the holocaust and antisemitism.

Personally he is one of my favourite intellectuals. Intelligent, hard hitting, critical and very well spoken. He's a political science professor.

Search him up on youtube. Very good stuff.

You can probably find the trailer there too.

[h0m0revolutionary]

he's very intelligent, but he's not of or even around the left.

I love his work and his criticisms of Israel are the most well researched, most valid and habitually excellently orated. But he doesn't call for Israel to be de-zionised, only for it recognise the creation of a Palestianian State (read: Palestinian bourgeoise). This stems from him being a US liberal with no understanding of imperialism, Israel as nothing more than a settler colonial entity and the role of bourgeois Palestinian groups in escalating the conflict for their own gain.

[FreeFocus]

I like Finkelstein. Beyond Chutzpah was an amazing read, incredible research on Finkelstein's part.

I have to disagree with you a bit, HR. I'm quite sure Finkelstein at least sympathizes with the (socialist) left. What you see with a lot of academics is that they have sympathies or believe some things, but don't come out and talk about them all the time because it's not their field of expertise. I'm also pretty sure he's given interviews and has written for socialist publications - most liberals wouldn't even touch that.

So I don't think he's a liberal, but a sympathetic leftist who isn't overt about his political ideology.

[narcomprom]

The Holocaust Industry does begin well but later on does degenerate into an unresearched rant mixing personal anecdotes, sentimentalism with a simplified conspiracy theory on a level I'd rather expect from a pub or an internet forum than from something written by a professor of political science. The point was, I think, to craft a common enemy of the reactionary's ZOC, fundamentalist's Israel lobby and Lenin's Imperialism.

The Arab-Jewish Antizionist Matzpen (http://www.matzpen.org/index.asp?p=101) had made publications on higher level leaving, unlike Finkelstein, no room for an anti-semitic, Strasserian if you wish, interpretation.

[RedHal]

Finkelstein is not a liberal, he's of the left, maybe not as radical now as his maoist days as a student.

[9]

The Holocaust Industry does begin well but later on does degenerate into an unresearched rant mixing personal anecdotes, sentimentalism with a simplified conspiracy theory on a level I'd rather expect from a pub or an internet forum than from something written by a professor of political science. The point was, I think, to craft a common enemy of the reactionary's ZOC, fundamentalist's Israel lobby and Lenin's Imperialism.

The Arab-Jewish Antizionist Matzpen (http://www.matzpen.org/index.asp?p=101) had made publications on higher level leaving, unlike Finkelstein, no room for an anti-semitic, Strasserian if you wish, interpretation.

I haven't read it, so I cannot offer anything of an analysis, obviously. Could you elaborate on what you've said, though? I am curious. What sort of 'conspiracy' does he present? How does he link it to Lenin?
And, without intending to defend a work I have not read, I'd simply say that it is near impossible to offer any criticism of Zionism in which there is "no room" for an anti-Semitic interpretation. Honest discussion of Zionism is, in and of itself, conducive to anti-Semitism, but that is certainly not the fault of those participating in honest discussion, nor should this fact be used to discourage honest discussion, as it often is by proponents of/apologists for Zionism. Again, I am not defending a work I have not read, I just think its important to bear in mind that, simply because a piece of writing has the potential to fuel anti-Semitism doesn't mean that it is anti-Semitic.

[narcomprom]

I would say most certainly much more if I did read it but just like you I didn't! I got stuck in the middle. I just can't get through tedious tear diluted platitudes when the author runs out of arguments.And the beginning was fine! It could have become a great essay or scholarly articile, but no, he wanted a whole book.

The author goes, for instance, on great lenghts to descibe his righteous pious penniless Warszawa ghetto survivor mother and then he goes on great lenghts to describe the vicious villa dwelling Hollywood holocaust industry Jews who have, in fact, never ever been to europe, save to the Warszawa ghetto. Then he goes on great lenghts to explain that not every cleric is virtuous and then he goes on great lenghts to explain that not every jew holds much of clerics and that many jews, in fact, have never talked to a cleric while many German aryanizers liked to sorround themselves with clerics of judaism.

After a while you go "Oy gevalt, a revelation! am I supposed to be outraged? allright, I am outraged! but what's the effing point?" and after twenty more pages you understand that the effing point won't come as your find yourself amidst the sorrows of oppressed people described in a very touching manner.

Many of his points are highly relevant to the right and irrelevant to the left. They, the holocaust industry, own the media and the academic discourse and they use it all to inflate the holocaust body count to embezzle more money because they're cynical cogs in world capitalist system and, ergo, agents of American imperialism, and as such they were invented in 1967.

Are they nationalist fanatics pulling all the strings? Are they agents of the grand capital? Are they nazi party continued? He says it not but writes great walls of text implying everything you wish. The antisemite interpretation I bespake he does not just allow, but he exprepressively cries for it. You'll see, if you read it, a sharp contrasst between his rhetorics and that of the authors you linked to in the Antisemitism thread, Apikoros.

Perhaps only that way, wallowing in controversy, that book could first get so famous. Whichever is the case the thing could have been put in better taste and style.

edit: And on google video Norman is described as a political scientist unfairly prosecuted by the (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5471043586104282386&ei=6UyJStqOHpLW-AaHoYGhAw&q=%22american+radical%22) zionist lobby (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5471043586104282386&ei=6UyJStqOHpLW-AaHoYGhAw&q=%22american+radical%22).

[9]

"Oy gevalt, a revelation! am I supposed to be outraged? allright, I am outraged! but what's the effing point?"hahahah, this is my favorite response ever.
:laugh:


Many of his points are highly relevant to the right and irrelevant to the left. They, the holocaust industry, own the media and the academic discourse and they use it all to inflate the holocaust body countWow, sounds pretty bizarre. If I have the time at some point, I'll have to check it out, just out of curiosity.
Plus, it just sounds so emotionally uplifting :lol:


edit: And on google video Norman is described as a political scientist unfairly prosecuted by the (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5471043586104282386&ei=6UyJStqOHpLW-AaHoYGhAw&q=%22american+radical%22) zionist lobby (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5471043586104282386&ei=6UyJStqOHpLW-AaHoYGhAw&q=%22american+radical%22).

http://www.meikathon.net/roflmao/facepalm.jpg