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Socialist123
12th August 2009, 23:49
Who say that communism is totalitarian? I mean this not as in "dictatorship", that is easy to respond to. I mean people who say communism would eliminate individualism. With anarchism there is obvious stress on preservation of individualism, with marxism it is not as apparent. Keep in mind I'm not agreeing with these people, I'm only asking how you would respond to them. So:
What form does individualism take under communism? One of the core tenets of the so-called individualists is that individuals should be free to pursue whatever path they desire in life, without anybody else telling them what they need to do. How would communism effect this?
The other thing that individualists seem to believe is "Communism=Collectivist ideology=Always sacrificing the "common good" at the sake of individual freedom" How do you respond to this?

bosgek
13th August 2009, 00:00
Anarchism and communism have the same end goal. A dictatorship of the proletariat is an intermediate phase to a stateless, classless society. Unfortunately there are many revolutions that turned from the intermediate phase into a dictatorship over the proletariat. This dictatorship is then mistaken for being communistic.

ArrowLance
13th August 2009, 00:00
I would say that the needs of the Society and the needs of the Individual are not so separate. In reality they go hand in hand. A society is much more rich when individualism flourishes, but at the same time, that's not possible without a society to express that individualism. If you have a society in which workers are dominated, they do not have much ability to express themselves, they are alienated from society.

Socialist123
13th August 2009, 00:05
Anarchism and communism have the same end goal. A dictatorship of the proletariat is an intermediate phase to a stateless, classless society. Unfortunately there are many revolutions that turned from the intermediate phase into a dictatorship over the proletariat. This dictatorship is then mistaken for being communistic.
I did not mean to say that anarchism and communism (marxism) have different goals, merely that anarchism puts some stress on the keeping of individualism in that end goal. The post is meant to ask the what place does individualism take in this stateless and classless society.

Искра
13th August 2009, 00:08
Why do you keep on saying that anarchists are more for individualism then for collectivism?
I don't think that individual is above society. I just think that society must not oppress the individual, or vise-versa.

New Tet
13th August 2009, 00:17
[...]
What form does individualism take under communism?

Don't confuse individualism with individuality.

Individuality is what you exercise on a daily basis when you assert your presence and conscious participation in all the important aspects of your private and social life.

Individualism is the ideology that attempts to explain this phenomenon exclusively from the subjective point of view.

The question, more properly asked would be:

"How would our individuality be expressed under communism?"

Socialist123
13th August 2009, 00:19
Why do you keep on saying that anarchists are more for individualism then for collectivism?
I don't think that individual is above society. I just think that society must not oppress the individual, or vise-versa.

From Daniel Guerin's book "Anarchism" P. 27,


The Anarchist sets two sources of energy against the constraints and hierarchies of authoritarian socialism: the individual and the spontaneity of the masses. Some anarchists are more individualistic that social, some more social than individualistic. However one cannot conceive of a libertarian who is not an individualist.

This is not to say the anarchists on here are all hardline indivudalists, they just have an undoubtedly individualist influence in their line of thought that marxists do not have. See Max Stirner. Keep in mind also that Daniel Guerin was a socialist.

BIG BROTHER
13th August 2009, 07:07
One of the goals of communism and this is according to Karl Marx is to free people from wage-slavery, which would enable persons to develop their full potential as human beings. That seems to me like a very positive form of individualism that capitalism doesn't allow in contrast.