2010 US Social Forum

[Revy]

The second US Social Forum will be held in Detroit, Michigan in 2010. I thought I'd create a post about it (maybe it should be stickied).

[The Feral Underclass]

What is the purpose of it?

[Everyday Anarchy]

I don't know exactly what the US Social Forum is, but here is a link to the website for the 2010 forum: http://www.ussf2010.org/

Might be worth checking out, I don't know.

[The Idler]

What is the purpose of it?
Uniting all progressive opposition to capitalism?

[OneNamedNameLess]

I never knew you had one in the US so i'm pretty happy to hear about it. Is it well attended?

I would like to attend the next big one which is in South Africa I think.

[Revy]

I never knew you had one in the US so i'm pretty happy to hear about it. Is it well attended?

I would like to attend the next big one which is in South Africa I think.

The last one was (which was the first ever United States Social Forum) in 2007 in Atlanta. It was a pretty big event (from what I heard).

[Delirium]

Since we don't have a big fat get together for the revolutionary left, this will have to do.

[cb9's_unity]

It's a big get-together for the petty bourgeois left.

And that's why on their front page there is a picture of a guy supporting workers unions... How about providing some analysis instead of just slandering leftist groups that don't fit into your revolutionary mold.

Alas, I don't know much about this group myself but if it is more moderate, which it appears to be at first glance, is there any effort to have a large radical leftist presence there? I mean once a person believes their fighting capitalism you would think they would be more open to our more radical leftist politics.

[JimmyJazz]

The independence of the working class means no involvement in the fight for reforms?

[cb9's_unity]

Yeah, they have a picture of a guy supporting a union. The AFL-CIO supports the event. There will be workers at the event as well. What does that have to do with my characterization?

The "U.S. Social Forum" is based on the model of the World Social Forum, which is an international get-together of the petty-bourgeois left (that has the sponsorship of corporations and capitalist states). The "Social Forum" movement rejects class struggle and the need for the working class to take power, and instead focuses on ways to make capitalism "better."

The Chicago Social Forum was sponsored by the Ford Foundation. That shows what a "threat" it is to capitalism.

The sad thing is that a lot of people are so beat down, demoralized and removed from proletarian politics that they simply accept the petty-bourgeois left as the "best there is." They completely forget about maintaining the independence of the working class and other vital communist principles.

This is at least better than the last post you made. However I was unaware that the petty bourgeoisie was so interested in unionizing workers.

My problem is when people simply label something petty-bourgeoisie because they don't believe it it radical enough. I have to be reminded of when I first starting searching for a communist group to associated with. I was disgusted when a Stalinist group defined the Trotskyists as a "petty-bourgeois" phenomena and then, if I remember correctly, seeing a Trotskyist group do the same thing to the Stalinists. So while I'm not saying the social forum is the same thing as those two groups I'm all too familiar with the term petty bourgeois being used as an insult more than a description

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

Fuck yeah Detroit.

It seems like there were quite a few revolutionary socialist groups that attended the last one...should be interesting.

[cb9's_unity]

I'm not responsible for others who throw the term around as slander. The petty-bourgeois is an existing and definable class and petty-bourgeois socialism is an existing and definable trend.

I found this on their site


Organizers are reaching out to young people, people of color, unionists, laid off and unorganized workers, welfare recipients, veterans, persons with disabilities, indigenous people, freedom fighters, collectives, and many others.

Sounds like a little more than a get together for the petty bourgeois left. It is calling all classes to fight modern capitalism, including proletarians.

I would bet the main characterization of the Social Forum is that is moderate since it seems to be calling on a lot more than the petty bourgeoisie. In that instance there is not reason why the radical left should not let its presence be felt there. Most of the people there are fighting against modern capitalism and we have a solution for them. So while I understand and agree with you that the proletariat should not be following anyone in the revolution, meetings like this should be a good place to let our opinions be known. After all I have to imagine a place like that would be more receptive to our message than any other large american political forum.

[Ol' Dirty]

I went to the Atlanta Forum in 2007. Happiest time in my short life. Not extatic about going to Detroit, but it's probably worth it.

[cb9's_unity]

Of course there will be workers there. No one is disputing that. The question is who is organizing this event and what their politics are.

Workers came to Obama's appearances during the 2008 election. Does that make Obama a proletarian or a communist?

Again from their site

Key aims are to create an open space and a process for creating movement convergence and coordination, raise awareness of social justice issues, provide opportunities to share experiences, and discuss strategies that create social change and solutions to the problems facing people across our many struggles,
sectors, regions, and diversity.

Clearly limited to the petty-bourgeoisie...

And yes workers were at Obama's rallies but the rallies weren't fighting against capitalism. If there are those open to fighting capitalism why in the world would we not try to radicalize them. Remember that most americans have not been given a fair or accurate interpretation of communism. If they are already anti-capitalist they will be more receptive when they receive their first real lessons on socialism and communism.




Otherwise known as class collaboration.

"The liberation of the working class must be the work of the working class itself." - The Communist Manifesto

Why do we want proletarians to only here the message of class collaboration. Right now the moderates are organizing mass meetings against capitalism and influencing proletarians. We should be using their organization to spread our own ideology.

Talking with the other class and conceding anything to them are two different things entirely.




Because the proletariat must win its political independence. Keeping it tied to the oppressors and the petty-bourgeois misleaders only prolongs the existence of capitalism.

We should be honest and call this what it is.

We need clarity and honesty, not class collaboration and illusions.

The moderates and the "petty bourgeoisie" are offering those things. If we let them preach their message, unchallenged to the public, then the existence of capitalism will be prolonged.

We need to be clear and honest and realize that association with those we have differences is not collaboration. We can talk to them about how to change society without changing our ideals. Or do you believe your ideology is so weak that spending any time with the opposition will change it?

[cb9's_unity]

Show me the large purely proletarian forum and I may go to that instead.

However I will never understand your reluctance to challenge what is dominating the left right now. Why are you so content to let them dominate the left and why can't radical leftists and moderate leftists ever interact? What is the strategy of not taking on the moderates face to face. It is impossible to be constantly shouted down at the forum, you could get at least some one on one interaction.

[cb9's_unity]

Congratulations, you have proven that you can continue arguing without any evidence at all.

I've looked more into the social forum and its just a place to discuss anti-capitalist politics. They don't really have many specific beliefs at all. Regardless of who its organized by why do you oppose this? To me a place that accepts working class people and fights capitalism sounds pretty good. But I guess that is your problem with it. You care less about fighting capitalism and more about implementing your specific beliefs.


In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.

Sure many if not most of them won't completely agree with us but we should support the movement against capitalism. Just because we don't agree on many issues doesn't mean we can even associate with them.

[Manifesto]

I am going to make sure I go to this. By then I will have a car.

[Revy]

Well, that just sounds way too perfectionist. This is a conference for the real left in this country not some Obama rally. Yeah, they're probably not all socialists. Certainly having a stronger left-wing movement in this country would benefit us? The anti-war movement is in stagnation, other movements are demoralized. You have to participate before you can lead.

[Pawn Power]

Don't listen to all the haters. It is going to be great and I will be there doing stuff!

[cb9's_unity]

Again, it's not about "agreeing" on tactics or strategy. It's about class and class politics. Until you're willing to engage on that basis, this discussion is pointless.

Ok, so there are people out there who aren't taking a class approach to their politics. We would like them to take a class approach to politics. But we shouldn't talk to them until they take a class approach to politics? It's hard to get more idiotic and non-productive than your argument here is.


If you just want to do something for the sake of doing it, listen to petty-bourgeois socialists give speeches about "the people," talk to members of various left sects, etc., you will certainly have the opportunity to do so at the social forum.

At this point I'm not even sure if you are reading my posts. I don't want to do anything 'for the sake of doing it'. I want there to be a presence at this convention for the sake of radicalizing already anti-capitalist people.

If I go to this thing (I would love to but i'm not sure what my situation will be like in a year) I would love to hear these "petty bourgeois" (as you insist on calling them) people speak. What would be a better forum to critique them? Or at the very least gain practice in debating them.


If you're a worker and you want to liberate yourself and your class, and in turn humanity, you won't find anything but dead ends and worse.

Care to explain what "and worse" is?

[cb9's_unity]

I have not ignored a single bit of your argument. I completely understand giving even one concession to the petty bourgeoisie is unacceptable. However independent proletarian politics will not emerge out of nowhere. To grow we must attract people from other political areas, and yes that means workers who might otherwise be swayed by 'petty-bourgeois' politics. Where there are workers we need to be radicalizing them and making them truly class conscious. The capitalists have convinced the majority of the workers that the communist movement is discredited and dead. The larger the radical portion of the people at the forum the more we help to destroy the myth the capitalists have created about us. And I highly doubt during every conversation I have with a moderate I will be shouted down by everyone around me.

Also this is going to be a issue of moderates versus radicals. Bourgeois socialism is inherently more moderate where proletarian socialism is inherently more radical. We should be there to push the proletarian thus radical message. No matter what their class is if they support a purely proletarian program (which again is inherently more radical) then we have made progress. You have an obsession that if we even mingle with the petty-bourgeoisie we will be the ones who make concessions. This shows an utter lack of confidence in the proletariat, you are preaching defeatism when what you should be doing (all of us for that matter) is making sure that we aren't making any concessions.

It is a giant mistake to let the working class drown in this 'petty bourgeois socialism' and not do everything you can to show them there is an alternative (an alternative the capitalism media has told them doesn't exist). We should be explaining our beliefs to everyone who will listen, and then we should have the confidence to not change our opinions or de-radicalize when faced with the option of class collaboration.

[ellipsis]

It is always good to meet new people from whom to learn and become active with.