English Defense League in Birmingham [Archive]

Pogue

8th August 2009, 23:44

Arrests at anti-Islamic protest

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46178000/jpg/_46178520_demos2_226.jpg Police said the majority of the arrests were for disorder

Police in Birmingham have arrested 33 people during protests by anti-fascists and a group demonstrating against Islamic fundamentalism. One protest involved two groups known as Casuals United and the English Defence League, which police said were made up of local football fans.
Another counter-protest in the city centre was organised by Unite Against Fascism, West Midlands Police said.
Two people were injured in the disturbances which began at 1800 BST.
Police said there were "sporadic incidents of disturbance in the city centre" with the majority of the arrests being for disorder.
There was one report of criminal damage to a vehicle, but more were expected. No police officers were hurt.
'Burning flag'
Resident Gary Nichols witnessed the disturbances from his city centre flat and said he was unable to go outside for about two and a half hours.
"It was very disheartening to see," he told the BBC.
"I've never experienced anything like it before in the three years I've lived here.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif It really wasn't nice to see and I hope I never see it again http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif

Gary Nichols, eyewitness

"It started off with a group of white guys who were chanting 'England, England'. I thought they were just football fans, but then a larger group of black and Asian people turned up and it all kicked off.
"You had people burning the Union flag. People were being kicked - some of them weren't anything to do with the protests.
"It all seemed to be very systematic - groups were arriving in cars and getting involved in the violence.
"It really wasn't nice to see and I hope I never see it again."
Speaking before the demonstration, on the West Midlands Police website, Superintendent Matt Ward said there had been a similar protest against Islamic fundamentalism last month, involving 70 to 90 people.
He said the protest had been "vocal" but peaceful.
Supt Ward said the police wanted to balance the rights of protesters with retailers and shoppers who wanted to use the city centre for their normal business.

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A comrade will be writing up a report from an anarchist perspective on the protests tommorow, I will post it up here as well.

Apparently the EDL had about 150 people. A group of 50 of them stormed at a bunch of black and asian youth who were protesting against them, and apparently the EDL got chased off by the youths! Apparently that happened alot and the EDL got truly flattened.

They are appearing again in Luton towards the end of the month, more info to follow. They are going to be opposed there as well.

OneNamedNameLess

9th August 2009, 00:58

No police officers were hurt.

Awww.

Holden Caulfield

9th August 2009, 13:13

I suggest you give this link a click until somebody posts a proper left wing account of events:

http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2009/08/birmingham-city-centre-protests-riot.html

Partizani

9th August 2009, 13:25

Holden Caulfield

9th August 2009, 13:27

In the video on the Lanc UAF site, the spokesperson for the anti fascists is a fool, spouting the useual 'BNP, NAZI, RACISTS' lines.
For representing the antifascists present that at counter demo he could have done a better job at explaining that this group is no better than the BNP and how they intice racial violence in the UK.

exactly, it time the SWP dropped their liberal bullshit, its no where near a revolutionary situation but its foolish for the left to cling to the centre ground when fighting against fascism. The far right are getting militant as we can see, its about time sections of the left got back to militant antifascism.

Anybody else miss AFA or just me?

Pogue

9th August 2009, 13:45

I wasn't even alive during the main period of AFA's activity but from reading about them amd discussing with comrades I certainly wish we had such an organisation around today. I am also confident we can and will make one.

JohannGE

9th August 2009, 13:56

In the video on the Lanc UAF site, the spokesperson for the anti fascists is a fool, spouting the useual 'BNP, NAZI, RACISTS' lines.

exactly,

Not sure what you mean here.

In an atmosphere of tension and exitement the guy had 15 secs answering a question about what had happened.

rednordman

9th August 2009, 14:18

OneNamedNameLess

9th August 2009, 15:09

Just wait for report after report on this event from the british media, trying to defend the hooligans, and blame the anti-fascists for all of this.

Even on skyBLues, they have used the typo of 'anti-fascists clashing with people protesting against islamist fundamentalism' - this is just a simple bit of a black and white view, as these people where not simply protesting islamic extremism, but they where protesting against the islamic faith as a whole. Heck, I bet most of those protesters have far-right sympathies.

Am I being paranoid or does the media now stick up for these scumbags, over the anti-fascists?

Maybe just a little paranoid. Remember, even the Daily Mail doesn't back the BNP (yet) and anti-fascists don't receive much coverage. Those who do such as UAF are not really hounded by the media so much. It's just alarming to see football fans in this country going all political all of a sudden and embracing what appears to be far right views. Football supporters are not as political in the UK in comparison to other nations, but are still predominantly working class, that is something to be concerned about.

Pogue

9th August 2009, 15:52

Maybe just a little paranoid. Remember, even the Daily Mail doesn't back the BNP (yet) and anti-fascists don't receive much coverage. Those who do such as UAF are not really hounded by the media so much. It's just alarming to see football fans in this country going all political all of a sudden and embracing what appears to be far right views. Football supporters are not as political in the UK in comparison to other nations, but are still predominantly working class, that is something to be concerned about.

Do you really find it that shocking or scary that at the most a few hundred football fans are racist and prepared to hold aggressive demonstrations while the football season is out?

Rory

9th August 2009, 16:40

exactly, it time the SWP dropped their liberal bullshit, its no where near a revolutionary situation but its foolish for the left to cling to the centre ground when fighting against fascism. The far right are getting militant as we can see, its about time sections of the left got back to militant antifascism.

Anybody else miss AFA or just me?

Holden, I think it's time you drop your shit... Clearly this wasn't "liberal bullshit" as you seem so keen to call it. They physically confront the fascists and you're still complaining.

You weren't even alive to remember nevermind miss AFA.

Holden Caulfield

9th August 2009, 17:32

Holden, I think it's time you drop your shit... Clearly this wasn't "liberal bullshit" as you seem so keen to call it. They physically confront the fascists and you're still complaining.

You weren't even alive to remember nevermind miss AFA.

Yes antifascists fought back, people on a UAF defo fought back, working class members fought back yet UAF as an organisation cling to liberal bullshit or non-class based politics, name calling, and trying to form 'the broadest possible coalition' with bourgeois tory politicians and new labour scum who set the stage for the far right to grow.

please tell me what I said wrong in my criticisms of UAF as an organisation. I have said time and again that it could be better, that I want it to be better, than some groups are better than the national organisation.; I criticse UAF not from the antifa/anarchist criticism but from a pragmatic Trotskyist & Militant-Antifascist trend. I don't bash UAF to score points on the SWP or to appear anarcho and radical as fuck but because it has so much potential and we might well see a case of 'lions led by donkey's' in regards to them.

as for AFA I wasn't alive for the hay days of Marxism, of unionism, of militant antifascism but I still have a certain nostalgia for them. Even so, AFA existed for along time and am well aware of antifascist history, groups and members. If you want to debate anything seriously I'm more than happy to do so. If you want to say I'm talking shit without thinking outside of a very fucking small box keep it to yourself

Not sure what you mean here.

In an atmosphere of tension and exitement the guy had 15 secs answering a question about what had happened.

I know, I'm not criticising the individual, I'm commenting on the tendency of UAF members to say Nazi alot and not much else, its a problem of the group, and we cannot blame committed individuals for spouting 'party-line' when nervous and when hearts are racing. The Nazi thing is valid but is often also used as empty rhetoric and not much else.

Lets have a serious discussion here, as it appears several users have misunderstood, or do not know, my position on antifascism, and specifically UAF.

Pogue

9th August 2009, 17:48

From what I was told by people who particpated the fighting back was done by a group of predominantly black and asian youth, and I would assume they were locals. This is because when the EDL were in Birmingham before on an demo that wasn't, as far as I recall, opposed by the UAF organisationally (or if it was, they had a fairly small turnout), they were countered prtoestedby a group of young, mainly Muslim guys. There was an anarchist presence in that counter-demonstration as well as in the one yesterday too.

I think to claim this was a militant response from UAF is utterly absurd. UAF have a poilicy of not using a militant response and there is no evidence that these guys were in UAF. Even if they were they clearly acted independently of that organisation in the scraps that happened yesterday. For example the police said they cooperated with them throughout.

AFA was a fantastic group but even they said they were nothing if the local people didn't support them. If you talk to any militant anti-fascist from the 70s, 80s and also 90s and ask them when the best showings for AFA were, it would be when AFA were part of larger crowds of local youth who were fighting against the fascists with them. As anarchists, we believe that fascism will not be defeated by any organisation created by revolutionaries but by the working class itself, and I think this has been true right through history up until when the NF/BNP were kicked off the streets. There has been a long history of the groups of actual revolutionary socialist anti-fascists fighting alongside people who are just defending their community or just want a pop at the fascists. If you read the accounts you see how alot of the younger people who were up for a fight would flock to AFA following the demonstration that AFA was the group of militant anti-fascists you wanted to be with on a demo.

This is one of my views of militant anti-fascism, tactically. It is just the willingness for those who want to and feel able using physical force. It is not elitist. When it comes to the demonstration naturally unalligned militants up for it will flock to the militants. Contrary to some arguments I've heard from UAF supporters I don't think this is a bad thing, it does not represent elitism or squadism. Anyone willing to physicall fight can fight, anyone who perhaps doesn't want too or can't doesn't have too, but they can all be on the demonstration together and they should all be prepared for the ienvitable violence which means militants are needed in the first place.

I don't think its hypocritical for Holden to have 'nostalgia' for a group he wasn't around to see. I have grown up with a strong anti-fascist tradition and I have nostalgia for AFA because I've read about how effective it was. The same way I have what could be called nostalgia (not the best word but you know what we mean) for other militant organisations of the class which i think serve as an inspiration.

Holden has a sound ideology with regards to anti-fascism. Its not alien to Trotskyism like the SWP might claim either because AFA was predominantly Trotskyist, having been formed out of the SWP pretty much initially (before it became known as AFA that is, that was jsut its roots, as I'd like to make clear before Edelweiss Pirate comes and bullies me with his corrections), but also containing a broad coalition of anyone who wanted to fights fascists from Anarchists to Trotskyists because simply it was the best organisation. I think there is absolutely nothing unusual about feeling nostalgia for such an organisation, and I think Holden's view analysis is hard to seriously argue against. I probably disagree with some of the more Trotskyist elements of his views on anti-fascism but he is spot on about the liberal rhetoric of UAF and how this limits it severely as an organisation.

Holden Caulfield

9th August 2009, 17:54

Firstly: brilliant post

Secondly:

Its not alien to Trotskyism like the SWP might claim either because AFA was predominantly Trotskyist, having been formed out of the SWP pretty much initially (before it became known as AFA that is, that was jsut its roots, as I'd like to make clear before Edelweiss Pirate comes and bullies me with his corrections), but also containing a broad coalition of anyone who wanted to fights fascists from Anarchists to Trotskyists because simply it was the best organisation. I think there is absolutely nothing unusual about feeling nostalgia for such an organisation, and I think Holden's view analysis is hard to seriously argue against. I probably disagree with some of the more Trotskyist elements of his views on anti-fascism but he is spot on about the liberal rhetoric of UAF and how this limits it severely as an organisation.

AFA was partly made up by RedAction so unless I'm wrong as well EP can't correct anybody.

Pogue

9th August 2009, 17:59

I was making a friendly reference to how before Edelweiss Pirate corrected me when I said AFA was formed to defend the SWP. It was the Stewards Group which was formed by SWP members to defend SWP meetings and paper sales from the National Front, but the Stewards Group grew into what is known as AFA when it went more on th eoffensive and became relevant to all anti-fascists in England.

Red Action was formed after the SWP kicked a number of members of AFA out of the organisation for 'Squadism'. It was Trotskyist but also had, controversially, strong links with Irish Republicans. Alot of anarchists later claimed Red Action became too dominant in AFA. But yeh Red Action were Trotskyists but I think its more fair to say red Action grew out of but also became one of the main forces in AFA, along with the DAM.

Edelweiss Pirate knows alot about this topic too, though.

Pia Fidelis

10th August 2009, 01:24

they where protesting against the islamic faith as a whole.

What is wrong with that?

Pogue

10th August 2009, 01:26

What is wrong with that?

they were not doing this. they were seeking to incite anger against muslims.

OneNamedNameLess

10th August 2009, 01:49

Do you really find it that shocking or scary that at the most a few hundred football fans are racist and prepared to hold aggressive demonstrations while the football season is out?

What is the purpose of this post? What is wrong with what I said? I fear that football clubs may be targeted by the far right and some fans may employ their views like in Poland, Italy, Ukraine, Spain, etc, etc, etc.

It seems out of character for British football fans to participate in reactionary, political demos.

Holden Caulfield

10th August 2009, 09:00

What is wrong with that?

What is wrong with the Nazi attacks on the Jewish faith? Are not all religions our enemies?

Answer being it has nothing to do with religion, it has everything to do with racism and with scapegoating a visible minority to divide the working class and to fuel fascism off the back of bourgeois anti-muslim/immigrant sentiments found in the national press.

The BNP attack Islam on ration grounds often, stating that it is anti-woman, opressive etc, but in the same sentence they put forwards Chritian Values and propagate slanders again the entire non-white community. I.e. they are all Terrorists, they eat our swans, and steal out council houses.

Are you from the UK Pia, or from the US or elsewhere?

Fictional

10th August 2009, 10:06

its about time sections of the left got back to militant antifascism.

Can do, will do.
Just read in the local paper and read that Police are considering banning protests as such, do they really think breaking a law will stop people from protesting?

Someone also said it's "Alarming seeing football fans getting political" I don't think they're getting political, just lack of education, most football supports (hardcore) that I know are extremaly racist but have no reason to be, other than being stupid.

Pogue

10th August 2009, 10:29

What is the purpose of this post? What is wrong with what I said? I fear that football clubs may be targeted by the far right and some fans may employ their views like in Poland, Italy, Ukraine, Spain, etc, etc, etc.

It seems out of character for British football fans to participate in reactionary, political demos.

I think your knowledge of football hooliganism in the UK is very lacking then. The point of my post was that you seemed to be implying that it was somehow shocking and worrying that 150 football hooligans held a racist and aggressive demonstration in Birmingham. Considering around 500,000 people attend football matches every week in this country I don't think 150 racist casuals is particularly worrying. Even if they had a thousand thats still obviously an absolutely tiny minority.

Also its hardly new. Chelsea headhunters pretty much had a dual membership with C18 for alot of their time, and racist violence from football hooligan elements is hardly nothing we haven't seen before. In one of the accounts of AFA's history they spoke about how when they'd fight on matchdays against the NF alot of football fans would turn up for the scrap, and you'd see the political alleigances of teams. Alot of Chelsea would go to the fascist side (apparently 90% of them) and contrary to popular perception alot of Milwall would often have a go at the NF.

If you have any experience of terrace culture you will see its hardly new either, although it is diminishing. Obviously alot of fascists went to football matches in the 70s and 80s and they had a presence. Especially at Chelsea which is actually the club I support. Things are diminishing there though, the headhunters are nothing, if they ever were anything, they have no presence and you see alot more black and asian fans these days (I remember back in 2001/2002 I saw one black guy in the crowd and I was like 'cool', it was like a novelty to see a black person almost) whereas now you see alot more proportionate amounts of non-white people at the club. I think this is obviously good because it shows how the club has changed.

I think that racist fans are a minority of football fans just as they compromise a minority of working class people. Even in the height of hooliganism with all its links to the far right I'd say the racist, as in, actual far right element was very low compared to the whole stadium. It was just the press who exaggerated it to sell papers. And obviously now they are a very small minority. But its hardly new and so 150 hooligans (always known to be morons, essentially) looking to stir up trouble with Muslims is not suprising to me in the slightest, nor worrying because its nothing the Muslims themselves can't handle, considering we are on the case too its not a problem at all as the events in Birmingham showed. I suspect after the forthcoming 'return to Luton' the EDL will fold completely, if not just vanish into obscurity over the coming months as eveyrone realises its more fun to get pissed or just go watch the football (and just that) like a normal person.

OneNamedNameLess

10th August 2009, 12:43

Fair enough, that was a really decent post.

I am well aware of the presence of the right in some football clubs, i'm in Glasgow where we have Rangers for Christ's sake. The headhunters actually come to Glasgow sometimes and run riot with Rangers hooligans which I have witnessed first hand. In the UK in recent years football clubs just don't seem to show allegiance to a particular political party or group or not as much so as in Europe. Even a small number of idiotic fans becoming politically active is rather alarming considering the growing rise of the far right especially as they appear to be some sort of coalition group. That is what I was trying to convey really.

bricolage

10th August 2009, 16:12

I'd say football crowds have probably on the whole become less racist but I remember last time palace were in the premiership some guy at the home game with tottenham chanting where were you at Auschwitz and people laughing. Although, and while green street would like you to think otherwise, our 'firms' in the uk are pretty irrelevant these days outside of maybe if cardiff ever play millwall in a proper match again.

Pia Fidelis

10th August 2009, 19:33

What is wrong with the Nazi attacks on the Jewish faith?

I think there is a notable difference that needs to be clarified here. Most of the Jews who are opposed by the National Socialists, BNP, NPD et cetera are those that fall more so in the atheistic category. For instance, you will hear them speak much worse of Zionists than they will of Orthodox Jews. I agree with you that their opposition to Islam is not based solely on the religion itself - I just find that many members who post here find sympathy with Muslims and Islam. In my opinion, Islam is just as much an enemy of the people than National Socialism, especially if one considers the magnitude. There are an estimated billion followers of Islam worldwide. Now, so there is no misunderstanding, I do not think what the BNP is doing is right, for the reasons that you mentioned. If Islam was not the case, the BNP would still be protesting these individuals.

Are not all religions our enemies?

Yes, they are. Religion has been used since the bygone era to oppress the prolitariot. Whether it is through the open opression of Judaic or Shar'ia law, or through the Christian claims of Divine Authority. Just because a religious group is the target of discrimination does not mean that their beliefs are correct.

Answer being it has nothing to do with religion, it has everything to do with racism and with scapegoating a visible minority to divide the working class and to fuel fascism off the back of bourgeois anti-muslim/immigrant sentiments found in the national press.

The BNP attack Islam on ration grounds often, stating that it is anti-woman, oppressive etc, but in the same sentence they put forwards Christian Values and propagate slanders again the entire non-white community. I.e. they are all Terrorists, they eat our swans, and steal out council houses.

No disagreement here.

Are you from the UK Pia, or from the US or elsewhere?

Elsewhere.

Holden Caulfield

10th August 2009, 21:51

what UAF said:

Unite Against Fascism held a successful demonstration in Birmingham on Saturday against the "English Defence League", a group of racist football hooligans with links to the fascist British National Party that tried to hold an anti-Muslim rally in the city.

The EDL thugs had wanted a repeat of their 4 July action, when they took over a key spot in Birmingham city centre and chanted anti-Muslim slogans at passers-by, or a repeat of Luton on 24 May when they ran rampage through the town centre attacking Asians and Asian-owned businesses.

Instead they were outnumbered and roundly defeated. The spot they wanted to march in was occupied by hundreds of anti-fascists who had come to demonstrate their united opposition to racism and fascism. The UAF rally brought together Asian, black and white young people from the city alongside trade unionists and anti-racist campaigners. Chants included "Black and white, unite and fight" and "Nazi scum out of Brum".

The rally was addressed by speakers including: Weyman Bennett, joint secretary of Unite Against Fascism; Salma Yaqoob, Respect councillor for Birmingham Sparkbrook; Tony Conway from the national executive of the PCS union; Sam Margrave, former Labour councillor and anti-racist campaigner at Staffordshire University; John Hemingway, Birmingham secretary of the NASUWT teaching union; and Dave Hughes from Birmingham Trades Council.

The UAF counter demonstration acted as an important focal point for the anger that many people in Birmingham, especially those from the Muslim community, rightly felt about the fact that a gang of thugs was being allowed to hold a racist march in the city centre. Our rally was noisy but peaceful. The trouble that arose took place after it had ended and was sparked by a group of racists who broke off from the EDL demonstration and marched towards the anti-fascist rally to goad protesters.

The blame for the violent scenes that ensued lies wholly with the racist football hooligans that came to Birmingham to intimidate and attack the Muslim community. The police should have heeded the many warnings from the local community that this group was intent on anti-Muslim provocation, instead of naively accepting EDL claims that they were "not racist" at face value.

In fact the EDL's organisers include Chris Renton, a BNP activist from Weston-super-Mare whose name appears on the list of BNP members leaked on the internet last year. BNP and Nazi grafitti appeared in Birmingham in July after the EDL's previous action. The EDL demonstration was promoted on the openly neo-Nazi Stormfront website. A glance at the Facebook pages devoted to organising the EDL action shows the comments from EDL supporters to be littered with vile racist abuse.

Weyman Bennett, joint secretary of Unite Against Fascism, said:

"In the 1970s the National Front used to organise racist demonstrations against black people through 'anti-mugging' front groups. Today the BNP and other fascist organisations use the issue of 'Islamic extremism' in exactly the same way.

"Nobody – least of all the police – should be taken in by the EDL's pretence that these marches and rallies are not aimed at whipping up race hatred against Muslims and Asians. They are racist demos and we should not allow them to take place. Unite Against Fascism was right to help organise opposition to the EDL and we will endeavour to do the same against any similar demonstration."

Pirate turtle the 11th

10th August 2009, 22:00

Weyman Bennett asking for the police to do the job of the working class , again.

Holden Caulfield

10th August 2009, 23:08

Weyman Bennett asking for the police to do the job of the working class , again.

If your method is to work with elements of the state apparatus then you cannot well try to break from the state, least of all incite people to act outside of the law or to physically confront fascists.

This is why UAF is a popular front, as I (and many many others) have said time and again

Pirate turtle the 11th

10th August 2009, 23:17

""Nobody – least of all the police – should be taken in by the EDL's pretence that these marches and rallies are not aimed at whipping up race hatred against Muslims and Asians."

I can understand this his anti-working class tactic of upholding the state and improving its image by comparing it too fascists means he cant say "you know what fuck it , you see if a racist in your street organize to have him hospitalized - no pleading to the state to do what you should be doing yourself because you let them fuck the BNP over there going to be quicker to fuck you over". No of course I dont think there going to say something progressive like that but

"Nobody – least of all the police – should be taken in by the EDL's pretence that these marches and rallies are not aimed at whipping up race hatred against Muslims and Asians."

Isnt even calling for peacefully demos its asking the police to be more trigger happy on the demo ending. This is competently unnecessary and just exposes bennent even more as a reactionary tool.

Melbourne Lefty

11th August 2009, 03:47

Holden Caulfield

11th August 2009, 09:42

Personally looking at the site running stories it looks like it was a bit unorganised to say the least, and the EDL were not at all what the UAF told everyone they were.

I just keep thinking about the white kid getting beaten up who was not a part of the racist demo. Is he more or less likely to vote BNP when he grows up?

I don't know about EDL anywhere else up up here it compromises of one former BNP council candidate (still a member and activist) called Karl Chappell. Who likes to give threats to the local anti-racist group and ring them really late at night.

This is pretty helpful really as the said group have kept the correspondence, along with the IP adresses, e-mail adress, etc etc and can pull it out the bag if he ever stands for the BNP again and claims the wholes "we've gone from boots to suits" thing.

I think EDL might just be the name BNP militants (if we can call them that) will use to distance themselves from the party, they might be nothing nowt but I'm sure if Griffin had his way they would be the "well places fists and boots" he talked about to unofficially back up the BNP.

------

As for what Mel said, that was an unfortunate occurance, lets hope not eh.

edit: the first part of what I said is why myself, and other antifascists, stress the importance keeping records and 'intelligence' on known fascists, you never know when they will help your campainging ability.

Pogue

11th August 2009, 13:18

There was actually alot of debate amongst anti-fascists on what the EDL actually represents. Initially I think everyone was a bit wary of treating them like fascists because of the whole 'being Anti-Islam is not fascist' thing.

As I said to a number of comrades I think this position was rubbish. Any group who holds violent demonstrations with England flags is what anti-fascists would want to oppose, and quite frankly if we do not say these people are fascists then we will have a hard time defining what excactly is a fascist, as many political scholars (who I have no time for) say that the BNP, NF, even the NSDAP and Franco, were not 'fascists'. I think fascism is such a broadly used and disagreed on term that to say 'We can't oppose EDL from a position of anti-fascism' is a ridiculous thing to say. I always considered them fascists just as I consider the BNP fascists.

I think the solid BNP links have become official more recently with the discovery of alot of the dual membership, the fatc the group and its website was set up by a BNP'er, etc. I never doubted this.

Around the time of the Luton demo I had assumed that the EDL were a new more 'populist' front for the BNP trying to create a new outlet for anger focused on doing what the BNP cannot do - street demonstrations, focused against a religion which alot of people find unpopular, obviously masquerading the true focus of this movement - creating ethnic tension, using 'anti Islam' as an 'acceptable front'.

I think the reality is this is a group that came about opputunistically. Its numbers are hardly impressive. It was a few pissed off naitonalists who thought they ahd a chance to have some fun and 'get back at the Muslims for England' or some shit. Following the fact they caused a stir at Luton they thought they would repeat this tactic in other places. Obviously this was always going to die out. It will be interesting to see how many they get in Luton when they go back at the end of this month (if your free get down there to oppose them, I will).

bricolage

11th August 2009, 15:30

Pogue

11th August 2009, 15:40

Why do we have to define them as fascists in order to oppose them as we would fascists? Surely we can ignore the semantics argument and say ok they may be fascists, crypyo-fascists, ultra-nationalists, far right, etc etc, any of that but whatever they are we will march against them?

I think it matters because if it was just a general anti-Islam demonstration (not that I think there will ever be one of these in this country that wont be called by far-right elements) then we couldn't oppose it meaningully under the banenr of 'anti-fascism'. Anti-fascists were basically wondering what sort of analysis to have of this group - this affects our tactics alot. If they were just angry secular citizens then obviously we'd be less worried and militant than if we thought they were using Islam as a soft target for stirring up ethnic tensions. Seeing as conveniently they march through areas with alot of Muslims, most of whom happen to be Asian/Black, its clear this isn't just a secular or political opposition to Islam.

Also we need to know what we're dealing with. We need to understand what this group is trying to do to meaningully respond to it - if they were not fascists but we treated them as such, we might push them to the far right, whereas if they were fascists and we let them go unopposed they could grow to become a major threat. This is why it is important to understand the excact composition and meaning behind this organisation, so we can set about meaningfully opposing it.

Holden Caulfield

11th August 2009, 22:24

what the times said if anybody gives a flying fuck

A rightwing group, which has promised a summer of demonstrations against British Muslims, was in disarray today after its first significant protest ended in violence and 35 arrests.

The English Defence League staged a march near the Bullring shopping centre in Birmingham this weekend but its small band of supporters was drastically outnumbered by anti-fascist campaigners and riot police. The protest ended in violent skirmishes and running battles through the city’s busy shopping streets on Saturday evening.

Members of the League resorted to bitter in-fighting today as supporters labelled the organisers “ridiculous” and the event a “shambles”. At least three people were injured as hundreds of police, some in full riot gear, broke up fights between anti-Islamic protesters and anti-fascist groups who came to disrupt the demonstration. At one point officers were forced to seal off New Street with a steel barrier.

Emily Bridgewater, who was shopping when violence broke out, told the Birmingham Post: “It kicked off very suddenly and there was stampeding and screaming. We ended up being herded into Primark, where they brought the shutters down to protect us. It was very frightening.”

The League publicised its demonstration in the weeks leading up to the march and claimed that another would be held in Luton on August Bank Holiday weekend. Despite efforts to promote the event, fewer than 100 were thought to have gathered. Left-wing groups including Unite Against Fascism were alerted to the march and were able to organise a counter demonstration.

One member of the League’s online forum, registered as Adder, wrote: “I support you guys but yesterday was a shambles and you made us English look like an embarrassment. What exactly happened to supposed 'In the high hundreds' who were supposed to turn up? I saw the video and it seemed like there was barely 70 of you. Holding it such a high profile public place, ridiculous idea [sic]. That's just asking for normal civilians minding their own business to get attacked.”

Neil Edy, another member of the website, said: “I went to the march ... the turn out to the event wasnt good enuf only a few of us were there supporting the cause.”

Another sympathiser, calling himself Bill, said that he had not been able to find the others: “We were in the City most the afternoon, but then left as we had no one to contact and meet with, and we werent the only ones.”

Despite the failure of the first large event, the League insists it will continue to hold demonstrations. Comments on the group’s website, and the affiliated football hooliganism site Casuals United said that the next one would be bigger. One message on the Casuals United site read: “We will arrange it via the Inner Circles secret forums, so we will arrive unnanounced and neither the police or the scum will know any details.”

Some members may find it more difficult to travel to future demonstrations after West Midlands Police said that they were studying footage of the violence and would consider applying for injunctions against troublemakers. A police spokesman explained that the English Defence League had not informed local police of their intension to march but said that officers had no power to prevent a demonstration.

The English Defence League claim not to be a racist group and say that they have no ties with the British National Party. One of the websites linked to the League is believed to have been set up by a known BNP member, but that has now been taken down in an apparent attempt to conceal any link. Nick Griffin, the leader of the BNP, insisted that there was no link with the group. He said: “It’s a potentially very dangerous development. I understand it mainly comes from Luton ... which is a tinderbox.”

The group, which organises events on its website and through a Facebook group with 198 members, plans to hold its next large official gatherings in Harrow and Luton in August and then in Manchester in October.

Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6790067.ece)

Pogue

11th August 2009, 22:45

If anyone else is up for opposing this lot, go to Luton, alot of people are going to be there to oppose them and I reckon it'd be the grave of that organisation if they got beaten in the place they started at. Go with friends.

Fietsketting

13th August 2009, 11:43

On a sidenote: West Ham vs Millwall :cool:

Armchair Anarchist

13th August 2009, 23:57

A comrade will be writing up a report from an anarchist perspective on the protests tommorow, I will post it up here as well.

Is this report going to appear anytime soon?

Holden Caulfield

14th August 2009, 08:24

Two more articles, found on AWL (Alliance for Workers Liberty for those who don't know their SWP split offs, and lets face it, why would you)

http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2009/08/10/%E2%80%98anti-extremist%E2%80%99-protests-birmingham-racism-takes-streets

Pogue

14th August 2009, 16:18

Is this report going to appear anytime soon?

I'm still wating for the guy to send me it but it should do.

I'll post any reports on Luton up here too.

bellyscratch

14th August 2009, 17:43

People should watch this video. A couple of the racists get a good kick in.

http://current.com/items/90662089_birmingham-fascist-anti-fascist-street-fights.htm

Holden Caulfield

14th August 2009, 18:24

anybody else see the UAF stewards standing with the police telling people to step back or is that just me?

good to see people fighting back and ignoing what guardian waving liberals tell them to do haha (im only [partly] joking)

Fietsketting

14th August 2009, 18:33

People should watch this video. A couple of the racists get a good kick in.

http://current.com/items/90662089_birmingham-fascist-anti-fascist-street-fights.htm

Next time invite the Zulu's :cool:

An archist

14th August 2009, 18:54

People should watch this video. A couple of the racists get a good kick in.

http://current.com/items/90662089_birmingham-fascist-anti-fascist-street-fights.htm

Are Britisch cops always that chill? You hardly see them hitting anyone and people quite easily managed to get through their lines.

K.Bullstreet

14th August 2009, 20:17

Casuals United Against Fascism (http://therebelbull.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/casuals-united-against-fascism/)

It comes as welcome news to hear that a new anti-fascist group has been set up at an English football club. Aston Villa Anti-Fascists is the newest explicity anti-fascist group to hit the terraces of a top-flight UK club for a long while.

You can contact the group, and share any information on fascist scum in football here: villa_antifascists[at]yahoo.co.uk

http://therebelbull.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/sticklog1.jpg?w=142&h=259

Back in the 80’s and 90’s anti-fascist groups were common at football grounds. Many were initiatives by the militant anti-fascist organisation, Anti-Fascist Action (AFA), against racist & fascist groups such as the National Front, British National Party, and Combat 18, who were trying to make their way onto the terraces to spread their racist poison and recruit foot soldiers. Ordinary working-class people stood up to the fascists and let them know that they were not welcome at their clubs.

http://therebelbull.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/united11.jpg?w=279&h=276
http://therebelbull.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/9869590881.gif?w=298&h=300
http://therebelbull.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/fans_chelsea011.gif?w=297&h=300
http://therebelbull.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/fans_miliwall011.gif?w=300&h=294 Yes, even Millwall had one!

With the emergence of far-right politics onto the terraces again (BNP influence amongst certain football circles, and also the quasi-fascist English Defence League/Casuals United), it appears that anti-fascist football suporters groups are once again needed.

We wish the Villa anti-fascists the very best, and hope that the initiative is taken up by other footie fans across the country. Now keep your eyes peeled for Hereford United Anti-Fascists!

(You can check out some work by anti-fascist football groups on the continent by visiting the site of the Alerta Network – http://alerta.bplaced.net/wordpress/ (http://alerta.bplaced.net/wordpress/) )

RB

~Taken from http://therebelbull.wordpress.com/ ~