Smoker's Rights!!!

[marxistcritic]

Smokers have been kicked out of every place they love. Help them.

[Pogue]

no

[Fictional]

This is something I can't make my mind up on, I'm a big fan of smoking and I love going to the pubs with friends and what not, I can say I would like to stand inside the pub and have a drink/smoke, but I also enjoy going outside for fresh air and smoking, yet as soon as I think to myself 'Unban smoking in bars' I think of those who like going to bars and being in a smoke-free zone, yet why can't they introduce different areas, with smoke doors and two different bars, considering on the size of the bar, or even just a corner which is sealed off for those who smoke, I'm really undecided.

[marxistcritic]

no
Why not?

[Coggeh]

Why not?
What rights have we lost ? the right to smoke in a pub ? who cares . If i was a non smoker working in a pub i wouldn't want to have to put up with someone puffing it in my face and having a potential health risk because i want to do my job .Smoke outside and be happy like everyone else lol and anyway most places have smoking rooms anyway so it all works out. :)

[SubcomandanteJames]

I think that the workers of each establishment should democratically decide if they want to allow smoking inside their establishment, where, etc. I don't think the government on a national, state, local (as they have here in Austin) level should decide. The workers should. And then the customers/other workers, just like anywhere they go, go with the understanding of the risk of second-hand smoke, or they go for a smoke-free atmosphere depending on the case. Because smoking is something can affect other people, it's not an issue of liberty, however, it shouldn't be restricted if the workplace doesn't have an issue with it!

[Il Medico]

Why not?
Because people in public places shouldn't have to inhale the smoke from people's cigs and cigars. If you want to smoke, go outside or do it in private.

[Sam_b]

Not the so-called 'oppressed smokers' again :rolleyes:.

Trash?

[Sarah Palin]

Smokins bad, mkay? But I don't care if you do it. Just not around youngins or older people.

[FreeFocus]

I don't even like people smoking outside. The shit stays in the air and the environment. If you want to smoke, do it in your own house, and keep your carcinogens to yourself. :mad:

Smoking absolutely shouldn't be tolerated in indoor public places. People can make an argument for smoking outside, but I'd argue against that even.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I think it should be left up to the bars to decide whether or not smoking is permitted. That way smokers can go to bars that allow it and non smokers that dont like smoke can go to bars that don't. Heres a good one from Duane Peters, American hero: http://www.skaterock.com/features/dp.html

[Misanthrope]

Okay "anarchists", why would you support the state to tell an individual what he/she can and cannot do?

[StalinFanboy]

Okay "anarchists", why would you support the state to tell an individual what he/she can and cannot do?
I just don't care.

The smoking bans are near the bottom of a very long list of atrocities committed by the state. It's probably below Texas banning the right to own more than six sex toys.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I dont care that much, but I think its dumb. The workers should decide.

[Angry Young Man]

I don't even like people smoking outside. The shit stays in the air and the environment. If you want to smoke, do it in your own house, and keep your carcinogens to yourself. :mad:

Smoking absolutely shouldn't be tolerated in indoor public places. People can make an argument for smoking outside, but I'd argue against that even.

You see, Sam B, this is why we occasionally get shitty. (@FF) Move to the country where the air stinks of cowshit instead, then!

[scarletghoul]

Why is this in chit chat?
The state shouldnt be allowed to stop people smoking its stupid.

[bcbm]

As much as I love smoking in bars, I do also like coming home not smelling like I took a bath in an ashtray.

But then I just smoke in my room, so its kind of a moot point.

[An archist]

As much as I love smoking in bars, I do also like coming home not smelling like I took a bath in an ashtray.


Jup

[Killfacer]

Good.

[Dr Mindbender]

Why is this in chit chat?
The state shouldnt be allowed to stop people smoking its stupid.

Smokers shouldnt be allowed to stop people having clean air.

Which is what they'd be doing to workers, asthma sufferers etc if they were allowed to unhindered in public places.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Smoking in public places just exposes other non-smokers to the second hand smoke. That can't be very fair to them thus I support banning smoking in public places. If people want to smoke they can do it in the privacy of their own homes.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I just think it's a tad humorous that in a country in which we hear over and over again about property rights that the government can make a regulation such as a smoking ban on private property.

I used to get all pissed off, but honestly I've found that walking outside is much better anyway. Not only because it gives you an excuse to get some fresh air, but also I hate that stuffy smokey atmosphere in restaurants that allow smoking.

Especially at venues that allow kids, especially who don't even fucking inhale. That pisses me off.

[Jazzratt]

The shrill kneejerk of the anti-smoking crowd gets on my nerves no end. They find a behaviour they don't like and immediatly start on a bullheaded campaign to eradicate it entirely. This is the kind of logic that eradicated the workplace smoking room, along with the smoking in pubs and the like. That they haven't considered any of the following:
1) Smoking rooms within clubs, spacious and ventilated vertically to minimise smoke escaping through doorways and the like. Also set up in areas that workers are not obliged to enter (meals cannot be ordered for tables in the section and so on).
2) Allowing pubs to have an extra smoking liscence perhaps on the proviso they solely hire smokers who are often turned down for jobs on the grounds that they smoke anyway.
3) Sitting out in the bracing cold. I hear that does wonders for your health, doesn't smell bad or increase the risk of cancer [oh whoops forget the last one, depending on who you believe their are carcinogens in fucking everything, so maybe we should start banning activites on that basis].

I want FreeFocus to post again by the way, absent mindless vegans vitriolic anti-smokers are the biggest hoot in town.

[Angry Young Man]

I would have thanked you for that.

[Killfacer]

The shrill kneejerk of the anti-smoking crowd gets on my nerves no end. They find a behaviour they don't like and immediatly start on a bullheaded campaign to eradicate it entirely. This is the kind of logic that eradicated the workplace smoking room, along with the smoking in pubs and the like. That they haven't considered any of the following:
1) Smoking rooms within clubs, spacious and ventilated vertically to minimise smoke escaping through doorways and the like. Also set up in areas that workers are not obliged to enter (meals cannot be ordered for tables in the section and so on).
2) Allowing pubs to have an extra smoking liscence perhaps on the proviso they solely hire smokers who are often turned down for jobs on the grounds that they smoke anyway.
3) Sitting out in the bracing cold. I hear that does wonders for your health, doesn't smell bad or increase the risk of cancer [oh whoops forget the last one, depending on who you believe their are carcinogens in fucking everything, so maybe we should start banning activites on that basis].

I want FreeFocus to post again by the way, absent mindless vegans vitriolic anti-smokers are the biggest hoot in town.

No pub i went in had special well ventilated rooms for smokers. Come back when they invent that and people may give a fuck. If you don't give a shit about breathing smoke in other people's face then it seems fucking rich for you to whinge about health problems to do with sitting in the cold.

[Communist Theory]

I just quit because of this thread.

[Angry Young Man]

The worst thing isn't pubs. In fact it gives me the liberty of being anti-social. Say like...
Id: I'm not the centre of attention at the moment
Ego: I'm off for a smoke.

No, the problem is train stations. Like say if you've gone from Bristol to Sheffield without a cig and you get to a mostly open-air train station where the most pollution comes from the sodding trains and as it's Sheffield anyway it doesn't matter how much you make the air stink more or more carcinogenic.

Also, work places. Does this include stages and sets, because there are some plays where characters smoke.

As to the idea of second hand smoke, unless you're pregnant or 4, go to 3:12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ySCcnoo3c&feature=PlayList&p=6569D0231B7DBB5D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=34

[Charles Xavier]

Smoking cigars in elevators!!!!!!!!

[Jazzratt]

No pub i went in had special well ventilated rooms for smokers.

That's why I suggested it as a possible solution people could have thought of before they went crying to the bourgeoisie to kick the nasty smelly smokers out of their establishments.


Come back when they invent that and people may give a fuck.

The basic principals are there, especially for the upward ventilation (the airports in Sweden, I believe, have a nice device on them that performs a similar function).


If you don't give a shit about breathing smoke in other people's face then it seems fucking rich for you to whinge about health problems to do with sitting in the cold.

I was saying it's perfectly healthy outside and the air is clean. Isn't that what the fucking moaning minnies want?

[Killfacer]

That's why I suggested it as a possible solution people could have thought of before they went crying to the bourgeoisie to kick the nasty smelly smokers out of their establishments.



The basic principals are there, especially for the upward ventilation (the airports in Sweden, I believe, have a nice device on them that performs a similar function).



I was saying it's perfectly healthy outside and the air is clean. Isn't that what the fucking moaning minnies want?

Ok so i assume smokers are going to be paying for all this extra upwards ventilation systems?

[Pogue]

I don't think it makes me a moaning minnie not to want myself have to endure the stench of ciagrette smoke, having it cause me to cough and whatever and also have an increased risk of lung cancer,

[Absolut]

The basic principals are there, especially for the upward ventilation (the airports in Sweden, I believe, have a nice device on them that performs a similar function).

Never been in a smoking room in a Swedish airport and I have no idea how upwards ventilation works, but yes, they have designated smoking areas. They also have special rooms in a few pubs where smokers can go to smoke.

Anyways, I cant really object to a smoking ban in pubs. If you want to smoke, go outside, the workers have a right not to work on a workplace as safe as possible.

[Wanted Man]

I'm not really a big fan of the smoking ban, but I really can't bring myself to feel sorry for the poor oppressed smokers.

[redarmyfaction38]

Smokers have been kicked out of every place they love. Help them.
mmm. i'm a smoker, it's great, even the non smokers are stepping outside for a "smoke" with the oppressed, it's mow the best way to meet people on a night out, you've all got something in common to kick off a conversation with.

[Jazzratt]

Ok so i assume smokers are going to be paying for all this extra upwards ventilation systems?

Out of the extra billions in Taxes, easily.


Never been in a smoking room in a Swedish airport and I have no idea how upwards ventilation works, but yes, they have designated smoking areas. They also have special rooms in a few pubs where smokers can go to smoke.

Point me at the magical fucking locals.


Anyways, I cant really object to a smoking ban in pubs. If you want to smoke, go outside, the workers have a right not to work on a workplace as safe as possible.

So as a smoker I deserve only my lunchbreak to smoke in. Given that I'm less likely to enter employment than a non-smoking ponce I would try to organise a strike against that shite if I was unaware the policy had the full support of the bourgeoisie and their lapdogs.

[Killfacer]

How are you raising more taxes? I'm genuinly interested and am not trying to be critcal.

[Jazzratt]

How are you raising more taxes? I'm genuinly interested and am not trying to be critcal.

From what I remember it's about 4 billion including the amount lost to the NHS. Ranma40odd actually studied this shit so she can tell you more reliably.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

When you think about it, smokers pay billions in extra taxes every year (in the US, don't know about the UK but it may be similar), and we are sacrificing our health to raise this extra revenue.

Snokers should get 2 votes instead of 1, they deserve it for being so patriotic and ready to sacrifice for the good of society.

Or just a smoking section. Whatever.

[FreeFocus]

The shrill kneejerk of the anti-smoking crowd gets on my nerves no end. They find a behaviour they don't like and immediatly start on a bullheaded campaign to eradicate it entirely. This is the kind of logic that eradicated the workplace smoking room, along with the smoking in pubs and the like. That they haven't considered any of the following:
1) Smoking rooms within clubs, spacious and ventilated vertically to minimise smoke escaping through doorways and the like. Also set up in areas that workers are not obliged to enter (meals cannot be ordered for tables in the section and so on).
2) Allowing pubs to have an extra smoking liscence perhaps on the proviso they solely hire smokers who are often turned down for jobs on the grounds that they smoke anyway.
3) Sitting out in the bracing cold. I hear that does wonders for your health, doesn't smell bad or increase the risk of cancer [oh whoops forget the last one, depending on who you believe their are carcinogens in fucking everything, so maybe we should start banning activites on that basis].

I want FreeFocus to post again by the way, absent mindless vegans vitriolic anti-smokers are the biggest hoot in town.

First off, I never said I want to "eradicate" it, if people want to kill themselves, I'm not one to prevent access to the means to do it. :D

I support those measures you mentioned, if it can be made certain that the smoking room is completely (or as close as possible) isolated. I simply don't see what the problem is with smoking in your own fucking house.

And fuck off, Jazz. I'm not a vegan, nor am I "mindless." Frankly, it's rather embarrassing and shameful for a mod such as yourself to be blatantly flaming unprovoked like that.

[Angry Young Man]

Killfacer: Daily Mail much?

"Where' this money going to come from? My taxes, of course!"

[Jazzratt]

I support those measures you mentioned, if it can be made certain that the smoking room is completely (or as close as possible) isolated. I simply don't see what the problem is with smoking in your own fucking house.

Because you're not always in your fucking house. You go outside, you wait for buses, you go to the pub, you go to work and you sit about in parks. What a silly question.


And fuck off, Jazz. I'm not a vegan, nor am I "mindless."

Ah sorry I mispunctuated I should have indicated that "absent mindless vegans" was the condition of the second clause. The word "absent" in this context being used as a less long winded way of saying "in the absense of". If you're going to get up in arms do it about something I actually called you, though.


Frankly, it's rather embarrassing and shameful for a mod such as yourself to be blatantly flaming unprovoked like that.

I'm sure your face just lit up like a traffic light.

[Killfacer]

So the government are going to use the taxes to install smoking ventilation in pubs? :glare:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

So the government are going to use the taxes to install smoking ventilation in pubs? :glare:

Strikes me as a better use of the cash than more imperial adventures abroad or yet another pointless quango.

[Absolut]

Point me at the magical fucking locals.

I fail to understand why you have to use that tone, especially since I in no way was disrespectful, and merely supported your claim.


So as a smoker I deserve only my lunchbreak to smoke in. Given that I'm less likely to enter employment than a non-smoking ponce I would try to organise a strike against that shite if I was unaware the policy had the full support of the bourgeoisie and their lapdogs.

I dont see how you even remotely tried to address what I said, all I see is a mod acting like an idiot.

[Angry Young Man]

Smoking war!!!!

[Jazzratt]

I fail to understand why you have to use that tone, especially since I in no way was disrespectful, and merely supported your claim.

You said there were pubs with smoking rooms. I asked that you point me at them.


I dont see how you even remotely tried to address what I said, all I see is a mod acting like an idiot.

I really don't care.

[Killfacer]

Strikes me as a better use of the cash than more imperial adventures abroad or yet another pointless quango.

Not likely to happen though is it. The idea that the government would spend money to put ventilation in pubs is fucking laughable, whether it's a good idea or not.

[Absolut]

You said there were pubs with smoking rooms. I asked that you point me at them.

If I told you that Terassen and Red Room has smoking rooms, would that help you in any way?



I really don't care.

How rebellious.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Not likely to happen though is it.

Then what are you getting so worked up about?

[Killfacer]

Then what are you getting so worked up about?
???

Im not...

Its just that jazzrats idea that the government was going to reinvest tax into pubs is unrealistic and therefor his point doesnt stand.

[Jazzratt]

???

Im not...

Its just that jazzrats idea that the government was going to reinvest tax into pubs is unrealistic and therefor his point doesnt stand.

God you're unbearable. I posted a list of hypotheticals that would be better than the current ham fisted policy. You asked for suggestion of where the money would come from, I gave one. Of course I know it will never happen because no one in this country has an ounce of fucking sense.

[Killfacer]

God you're unbearable. I posted a list of hypotheticals that would be better than the current ham fisted policy. You asked for suggestion of where the money would come from, I gave one. Of course I know it will never happen because no one in this country has an ounce of fucking sense.

Well then how can you be against the smoking ban if the only reason you could give for not having it enforced is something you know will not happen?

:huh:

[Jazzratt]

Well then how can you be against the smoking ban if the only reason you could give for not having it enforced is something you know will not happen?

:huh:

I am against it because it is fucking stupid and any idiot can come up with compromises or solutions that far surpass it. I similarly find the drug laws obscenely stupid but I do not see them being repealed, this does not mean I have to support the damn things.

[Killfacer]

I am against it because it is fucking stupid and any idiot can come up with compromises or solutions that far surpass it. I similarly find the drug laws obscenely stupid but I do not see them being repealed, this does not mean I have to support the damn things.

Completley and utterly failed to give a good and possible way of resolving the issue.