Attraction versus objectification

[SoupIsGoodFood]

So what is the difference between being attracted to someone and objectifying them? Is objectifying a person necessarily bad? Is there a different standard for women than for men?

[yuon]

I would suggest, and I look forward to being corrected or to having my points clarified by more knowledgeable people, that there is a difference. That objectification is not always bad, and is, in some cases, unavoidable. And, thirdly, that, in an ideal world, there would be no difference in the standard used to asses the behaviour of men and women.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

See the thing is, people often bring up how women are being "Objectified", but I haven't even heard a definition of it, and the lack of responses to this thread leads me to believe that there isn't a clear definition, it seems like just a word people throw around without any clear meaning.

[Blackscare]

I would say the opposite actually, that attraction itself is natural and healthy, but that objectification is a process that dehumanizes women and causes men to regard them simply as tools or objects to be used, rather than people to be treated as equal.


Attraction is natural and fine, objectification is a negative social construct.

[FreeFocus]

A person crosses the line of objectification once they view a person as merely something to have sex with. A perfect example would be a guy who gets into a "relationship" with a girl just for sex.

Some people take the objectification .vs. attraction thing too far. For example, if a guy sees a pretty girl and gets an erection, that's not objectification, that's biology. If someone still sees the worth in an individual and acknowledges the person's dignity and that they have their own life, goals, etc, I don't consider it objectification.

But that's objectification on a personal level. In social terms, it's a lot broader, and encompasses all this "sex appeal" bullshit we see in ads and whatnot.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Well at what point does it become objectifying them then? And can women objectify men or are there different standards?

[SoupIsGoodFood]

Ok, so do you think promiscuous sex is bad?

[Black Dagger]

What is 'promiscuous sex'?

[SoupIsGoodFood]

One night stands and shit.

[Black Dagger]

No, there is nothing inherently 'bad' about having sex with someone outside of the context of a formal or 'romantic' relationship. Just use contraceptives and you'll be fine.

[SoupIsGoodFood]

I was talking to FreeFocus, he was saying that its objectification if someone has sex with another person and doesn't love them, and I was asking him if he opposed promiscuous sex.

[Black Dagger]

Oh ok, my bad.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

I was talking to FreeFocus, he was saying that its objectification if someone has sex with another person and doesn't love them, and I was asking him if he opposed promiscuous sex.
It's not all the same, tho. Having a one-night stand on the basis of saying "hey, you're fit, wanna fuck?" (or possibly some slightly more subtle variation, but you get the idea) is fine and something no-one could object to; getting into a relationship with someone who genuinely cares about you, and having to pretend to care about them, and maybe even tell them you love them, when all you really want to do is have sex with them, does kind of make you a dick, tho. The first situation is honest and treating the other person as an equal, the second situation isn't.

[brigadista]

One night stands and shit.

nothing provided both people agreed its a one night stand..

[yuon]

I would say the opposite actually, that attraction itself is natural and healthy, but that objectification is a process that dehumanizes women and causes men to regard them simply as tools or objects to be used, rather than people to be treated as equal.


Attraction is natural and fine, objectification is a negative social construct.

If there is an actor or model that a person thinks is cute, or pretty, or handsome, and wishes to have sex with them, is that attraction or objectification?

If a woman looks a a man and regards him merely as an object to be used (to have sex with presumably), is that worse than when a man does it to a woman?

Finally, what about the case of one night stands, where both (or all) parties agree that it is for one night only, and proceed to go about their business afterwards? Is the process of wishing to have sex with a stranger attraction or objectification?

If I'm in a bar, and I see someone that I would like to fuck, it's hardly attraction at that stage. After all, I can only judge them by their outward appearance. It may become attraction as I talk to them and share interests, but, at that first point, it is merely objectification. I wanting to use them (for sex). Is that so bad?

[Janine Melnitz]

So what is the difference between being attracted to someone and objectifying them?
There isn't one. Desire makes others its object. If you're not a jerk, though, you remain open to them as subjects as well.

It's worth mentioning that attraction to someone's body is no more necessarily "objectifying" than attraction to some (perhaps imagined) personality trait of theirs or whatever (which presumably they are obligated to continue exhibiting if they want to keep you attracted).

Is objectifying a person necessarily bad?
Patriarchal ideology makes it problematic, as its norms posit man always as subject of desire, and woman always as object. Under capitalism, a pretty extreme form of "objectification" results from liberal individualism's reduction of everything to use-values for the enjoyment of the bourgeois subject.

In what context are you asking if something's "bad"? A vacuum? Utopia? Your mama's house?

If a woman looks a a man and regards him merely as an object to be used (to have sex with presumably), is that worse than when a man does it to a woman?
If a black person grumbles about crackers, is that worse than if a white one complains about niggers?

[Lynx]

I suppose Trophy Wives and Sugar Daddies are stereotypical examples of objectification.

[Cobalt]

I'm going to try and explain this with another angle, and hopefully it'll be useful to someone. If not... well, at least I tried!

I don't like being around people who make me feel like they are relating to me as a pretty little thing they wish they had and not to me as a person. I've been the pretty little thing that men wished they could possess before, and believe me. It doesn't feel good.

A lot of guys don't understand why that doesn't feel good, and maybe there are some in this thread. A lot of guys think, "Well, I'm just complimenting them by being attracted to them. I don't get why they'd be bothered. I mean, doesn't everybody like to be complimented?" Maybe that's you. I have no idea. But in case that is where you're coming from, maybe I should explain it with an analogy that may make more sense to people coming from the viewpoint of experiences more common to men.

You know how in America we make men sign up for the selective service before the government will give them college money? That says a lot about ideas of what a man's body is "for" to the vast majority of people who make decisions for us all. To the government, to the military in particular, you are not a human being with his own mind, his own hopes, and a body that belongs to him. You're a weapon that they want to be able to pick up at any time. This is nasty because a weapon is just an object. It doesn't get to have an opinion about this. It is simply used, and it's terrible that men are treated that way. I'm sure it feels awful.

Well, if a man's body is a weapon, a woman's body is a prize. A prize is just an object, and it doesn't get to have an opinion about who deserves it, wins it, possesses it. That is DEGRADING.

Now, it is possible to be attracted to someone without devaluing them. It's when a man or a woman is treated as though their value is derived from a quality of their body that they're being objectified. That's damaging to whomever experiences it... whether it's men being treated as weapons or women being treated as prizes.

So that's my gender-angle on it. Men and women both experience it. There's a difference between appreciating a man's military qualifications and treating him like a weapon to be used and discarded, and a difference between appreciating a woman's beauty and treating her like a toy to be used and discarded. Objectification hurts, not just emotionally but in terms of the effect it has on how people are treated and used by others with the power to do so.

At least, that's how I look at it. YMMV, but I thought I'd chime in.