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View Full Version : Crimethinc vs. APOC: A Matter of Revolutionary Discipline, Not Gentrification or Race



Jethro Tull
4th August 2009, 06:59
It goes without saying that our comrades at APOC are insane. But, like that of Solanas, Kaczynski, or Tyler Durden, its a brand of insanity we cant help but admire.

Of course APOC is wrong to frame the issue as part of the anti-gentrification struggle. No sound-minded realtor would pray for drunken, vandalism-prone crust-punks. Nor is it about race. If working-class p.o.c. had organized the 2008 Crimethinc Convergence, and comprised the majority of its body of attendance, it would still be a hedonistic roadshow, a drain on resources needed for the class-war, a perfect fulcrum for local and federal law enforcement to gain a foothold during the ensuing military occupation of Pittsburgh.

The actions of APOC in Pittsburgh seem to have generated more commentary amongst the Internet anarchist mileau than bursts of genuine insurrection in Paris, Athens, Oakland, Tehran, Urumqi, and Lhasa. Thats when the incident in Pittsburgh stops being merely amusing, and begins being kind of sad.

Anarcho-liberals have already referred to this incident as the US anarchist communitys beer summit, invoking the alleged power of Obamas most recent hollow photo-op spectacle. The problem with the Crimethinc Convergence, however, was that it was a beer summit in the first place

After being told for months in advance by resident comrades that the Convergence would retard rather than foster the continued development of the anarchist project in Pittsburgh, Crimethinc unwisely chose to proceed. Even when they learned that our enemy was preparing for martial law in Pittsburgh, Crimethinc still refused to set aside childish things, such as an event that could only ever be justified as fun, or at best, social networking, an event best known as the location of Annas first seduction of Eric McDavid, an event thats always been nothing more than a vacation for restless youth, which up until now relied on rural, wooded enclaves as an exotic backdrop, but this year chose instead as its playground the industrial decay of Pittsburgh, to lend an air of political relevance and working-class legitimacy to a drunken, drug-fueled orgy of bohemianism and self-indulgence.

Across the Atlantic, another violent outburst of anarchist sectarianism serves to parallel events in Pittsburgh. After Anarchist Black Cross was accused of aiding terrorists and serial killers (in other words, prisoner support) by the macho, Euro-chauvinist, technocratic anarchists who congregate on the Libcom forums, an ABC member punched a notorious Libcom forum contributor in the face at a pub. Neither APOC nor ABC began these sectarian feuds, yet they at least had the decency to give them a proper finish. (Even if by proper, we only mean dramatic and amusing)

Both incidents shocked the Anglo-American anarchist community. This only serves to show how declawed and defanged we have become, how much weve divorced ourselves from the grizzly reality of daily war. Nestor Makhno would never be bothered to push racist anarchists down a flight of stairs, or to punch them in the face at a pub. Instead, he tended to shoot them on sight.

Thats not to say APOC should have gone postal at the Crimethinc Convergence, (in fact, thats the last thing they should have done) but rather to illustrate that APOC could only paint dread-locked white punks and traveling college bros as an external class-enemy because neither APOC nor Crimethinc (nor ourselves, for that matter) are close enough to the fire for issues of internal cohesion and discipline amongst radical political projects to be a serious subject of discussion. But as the G-20 looms over Pittsburghs head like an axe, were about to learn once more that the bourgeoisie is more than prepared to bring the fire to us. Are we prepared?

by Jeffy
signalfire.org

yuon
4th August 2009, 08:18
Wow, that's interesting. Who the fuck are APOC? (Anarchist People of Color (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_People_of_Color) I'm guessing.) Are you part of APOC? Are you part of Crimethinc? Or, I'm guessing, you're not part of either.

To tell the truth, this piece doesn't have a fuck load of information for someone who isn't part of either the American, or British anarchist scene.

Revy
4th August 2009, 08:27
Maybe it's because I'm not anarchist, but I have no idea what this is talking about.
Still, it sounds like a sectarian mess.

bcbm
4th August 2009, 08:46
to a drunken, drug-fueled orgy of bohemianism and self-indulgence.


Crimethinc convergences are always sober spaces.

Bilan
4th August 2009, 15:10
I looked this up out of curiosity. My conclusion: APOC are as absurd as Crimethinc are.
To accuse lifestylist prats of gentrification because they hold some useless convergence is so unbelievably stupid that I can barely comprehend the logic behind it.
Gentrification is a process - one in which the poor are systematically pushed out of a suburb to make way for the rich; not a dumb lifestylist convergence, which will not speed that up, let alone be an active part in.
The only thing that this inane convergence would have done would be to draw police into the area - and for that the convergence should have been criticized, and removed.
But on the basis of skin colour, or baseless accusations against certain people there (i.e. "middle class)?
Fuck off. APOC merely represent themselves as racists and utterly ridiculous, particularly in their communique (http://www.anarchistnews.org/?q=node/8794) on the action:

"Despite concerns, a large mass of white people were brought to a site of
gentrification and contributed to it, setting up a white space along Penn
Avenue. People of color both within that convergence and within the
communities it was situated were alienated. Many people of color attending
the convergence were regularly silenced and disrespected."

"The white race continues to be a parasitic force through cultural
appropriation, colonisation(they call it gentrification these days)."

If this doesn't totally undermine how devastating colonization was, I don't know what does. This is fucking disgusting.

"Race traitor- there are rumors afloat that the term "race traitor" was used
towards mixed people and other who weren't participating. this is untrue.
the word was used towards specific individuals and their personal history of
posturing a role in upholding, defending, and ultimately furthering white
supremacy. for instance, by the spreading the idea that it is because we are
not doing enough, that it is our fault that we are oppressed."

The fact that APOC feels it acceptable to use such an archaic and racist term as "Race Traitor" in any circumstance at all is just unbelievable. However, I find it hard to believe their defense here, if only because of the certain quotes they listed at the bottom of this communique. It merely appears as a means to discredit crimetihnc, or discredit their response to this eviction; which is stupid, considering crimethinc discredit themselves.

Undoubtably, white privilege must be adressed. But telling people to "go back to Europe" is blatant fucking racism; as is "Smack A White Boy". If they're too arrogant to call themselves out on their own bullshit, then they're as counter-revolutionary as those whom they targetted with this utterly stupid action.
It doesn't matter how many Malcolm X quotes, or what sort of revolutionary rhetoric you dress it up in. Racism is fucking racism, whether acted out on the part of Crimethinc, or APOC.
Evidently, the issue of white supremacy - considering the structuring of Western societies, and white privilege, and so on - is of far greater concern than that of individual acts of racism from others, simply because it is institutional which plays a direct role in disadvantaging non-white people.
This doesn't justify, however, a response which is riddled with the same xenophobic, or racist rhetoric. That is absolutely ludicrous.

Further, to refuse to even speak to them is by far the stupidist shit I've ever read.
If APOC thinks dumping peoples shit into a hall and telling them to fuck off, or go back to Europe, is how you get people to adress white supremacy, I'd hate to think of what sort of program they have for revolution.

Killfacer
4th August 2009, 16:02
It always makes me laugh when someone who posts online gets punched in the face, no doubt he was a proper cocky fuck.

Pogue was telling me about this recently. Don't get me wrong, i'm not a big fan of crimethinc (i don't know enough about them to be particuarly opinionated) but APOC sound if anything even more ridiculous. Fucking dumb useless sectarianism in broad fucking daylight, they could at least be a bit cloak and dagger about it.

Wanted Man
4th August 2009, 16:39
a drunken, drug-fueled orgy of bohemianism and self-indulgence.
Where?

Anyway, they both sound like idiots. I remember a thread that described how APOC attacked an anti-war rally, because the anti-war movement's black and latino leaders are all uncle toms and race traitors, who should spend more time "smacking white boys". Good folk, I'm sure.


It always makes me laugh when someone who posts online gets punched in the face, no doubt he was a proper cocky fuck.
That bit made me laugh too. That's a good reason to avoid big lefty get-togethers. Who do you think would get punched from RevLeft? I reckon one or two people might want to take a swing at me. Also, fuser and the entire M-L group: http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?do=discuss&discussionid=1317&pp=30&page=5

ls
4th August 2009, 17:37
Also, fuser and the entire M-L group: http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?do=discuss&discussionid=1317&pp=30&page=5

:lol:!

Tupac Amaru recently threatened someone too, as has Radical. All I can say is keep up the humour folks. :p

Wanted Man
4th August 2009, 17:58
I'm not picking a side, I just thought it was fun to mention in this context. :)

SubcomandanteJames
4th August 2009, 19:48
I have downloaded Crimethinc literature such as Recipes for Disaster, and Expect Resistance. And I've always found them top-notch and enjoyable. I haven't been to crimethinc events, but I have nothing against them. Of course, I tend to overlook minor differences of other groups and focus on common grounds and their contributions.

If anyone needs a copy of RECIPES FOR DISASTER: An Anarchist Cookbook, which is filled with neat activist tips (black bloc, molotovs, hangdowns, billboard modification techniques etc.) feel free to ask and I'll get you the pdf.

APOC? I don't know much about them. I never thought the anarchist movement, unlike the racial liberation movement, had a purpose of solidarity within a race. However, I guess if might attract members of the black liberation theology into the anarchist-movement then it might be beneficial. But overall, I don't see a reason for it... it's not a black movement, its a movement of all people of the world that are oppressed.

Pogue
5th August 2009, 02:19
it seems quite alot of libcom posters get punched or threatened to get punched for being cocky

btw we need more makhno. shoot the fuckers!

PRC-UTE
12th August 2009, 21:47
Both incidents shocked the Anglo-American anarchist community. This only serves to show how declawed and defanged we have become, how much weve divorced ourselves from the grizzly reality of daily war. Nestor Makhno would never be bothered to push racist anarchists down a flight of stairs, or to punch them in the face at a pub. Instead, he tended to shoot them on sight.

Thats not to say APOC should have gone postal at the Crimethinc Convergence, (in fact, thats the last thing they should have done) but rather to illustrate that APOC could only paint dread-locked white punks and traveling college bros as an external class-enemy because neither APOC nor Crimethinc (nor ourselves, for that matter) are close enough to the fire for issues of internal cohesion and discipline amongst radical political projects to be a serious subject of discussion. But as the G-20 looms over Pittsburghs head like an axe, were about to learn once more that the bourgeoisie is more than prepared to bring the fire to us. Are we prepared?

by Jeffy
signalfire.org

Not a very flattering portrayal of anarchists.