HBO's The Wire

[lostandclowned]

In my opinion, this is one of television's greatest shows. It's one of those things that surpasses its medium. It's better than most shows I've seen, bands I've heard, movies I've watched, books I've read, etc.

Any fans? Favorite characters? Favorite scenes?

[Intifada]

Most definitely the best television programme I have ever seen.

Captivating stuff.

I am near the end of season four, my favourite character is probably Lester Freamon. The man is a genius.

One scene that sticks out is the "fuck" scene with Bunk and McNulty in the first season.

[Pawn Power]

The Wire is actually the only tv show I watch. I just started season four.

It it a interesting show, as far as television goes, and supposedly it is a somewhat accurate representation of balitmore in many regards. It isn't the most amazing thing ever but it is good. Some of the acting is great thoughh, particularly D and Omar.

[ComradeOm]

Huge fan here. Its a superbly written show and (after edging out the Sopranos) the best thing I've ever seen on TV. Again, its just the quality of the dialogue and the characters that makes it work so well

[Random Precision]

Favorite characters?

Bubbles (obviously), Omar, D'Angelo, Bodie and Duquan are the ones I like most. Also Brother Mouzone, though he doesn't get too much facetime. Of the police I like Bunny Colvin, Kima, Lester, and Prez.

I also find Carcetti, Stringer, Marlo and Sabotka to be among the best created characters on television.

Most hated characters are Herc, Cheese, Valchek, Theresa D'Agostino and Scott Templeton.


Favorite scenes?

(spoilers)

D'Angelo's prison study group of The Great Gatsby. Omar's testimony against Bird. Avon and Stringer reminiscing about shoplifting as kids, which was up there with something from Shakespeare. Bodie going down shouting "this is my corner!" Marlo flipping out when he finds out his name was in the streets. Bubbles' speech at NA after he's been clean for a year.

[Sarah Palin]

I'm from the future, and I can tell you that the Wire was the best show ever, and will be the best show ever.

Favorite characters:

Bubbles, and all of the characters from the school.

Favorite scene:

Every scene in every episode from season four. Best, by far. But what am I talking about, every season was sublime.

[cleef]

The Wire is actually the only tv show I watch.

Same goes...im addicted to this show

Bodie, D'Angelo and bubbles gotta be my favourites

Shame D'Angelo got killed off so early...

[brigadista]

http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:5JFB4K2zrXWktM:http://noctos.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/omarlittle.jpg (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://noctos.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/omarlittle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://noctos.wordpress.com/2008/03/&usg=__fXzN8eOmxexjZMQW3y-hvBtxJ2M=&h=316&w=506&sz=55&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=5JFB4K2zrXWktM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3Domar%2Bthe%2Bwire%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN% 26um%3D1%26ie%3DUTF-8)

[Vanguard1917]

Bodie going down shouting "this is my corner!"

Yeah, that scene stayed with me a while.

I saw all five seasons a while back. It could with a re-watch. It's a really well-made series.

[Pawn Power]

Here is some pretty fine acting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrSy9r0-lMg

[9]

Its a good show, although I got a bit bored with it after the first two seasons. My parents lived most of their lives in Baltimore, and they grew up with a lot of the native Baltimoreans who are on the show. Most of my extended family is there also, so I know the city quite well myself. I probably never would have seen it if it weren't for my mother calling me up every time it was on to freak out about it. Not a lot of people on the show with the native working-class Baltimore accent, but there were a few... probably the worst-sounding accent I've ever heard, and both my parents got it:laugh: water = 'wooder', etc.
/end derail.

[Pawn Power]

Its a good show, although I got a bit bored with it after the first two seasons. My parents lived most of their lives in Baltimore, and they grew up with a lot of the native Baltimoreans who are on the show. Most of my extended family is there also, so I know the city quite well myself. I probably never would have seen it if it weren't for my mother calling me up every time it was on to freak out about it. Not a lot of people on the show with the native working-class Baltimore accent, but there were a few... probably the worst-sounding accent I've ever heard, and both my parents got it:laugh: water = 'wooder', etc.
/end derail.

So do native baltimoreans like the show?

Which characters have accurate accents? Which one's are the worst?

[Mather]

I love the Wire.

Not your typical crime series from the US, it neither glorifies the cops or the dealers/gangsters, but shows up both in shades of grey.

Also the Wire has two gay/lesbian characters who feature throughout most of the seasons, Kima Greggs and Omar Little. Given the story content, it was groundbreaking to see LGBT characters in this, especially as they don't display the usual stereotypes of LGBT people.

[Random Precision]

I love the Wire.

Not your typical crime series from the US, it neither glorifies the cops or the dealers/gangsters, but shows up both in shades of grey.

Also the Wire has two gay/lesbian characters who feature throughout most of the seasons, Kima Greggs and Omar Little. Given the story content, it was groundbreaking to see LGBT characters in this, especially as they don't display the usual stereotypes of LGBT people.

(spoilers)

Rawls is also a closeted homosexual, and it's mentioned that Snoop is a lesbian. And we also have Omar's partners- Brandon, Dante and Renaldo, and the lesbian couple, Kimmy and Tosha, who work with Omar during seasons two and three. I agree this is a great strength of the show, since other TV dramas don't have regular, developed gay characters.

[which doctor]

I just have the last episode of season 5 to watch and I'll have seen the entire series. More than just your typical crime drama, The Wire is a serious investigation into the American city. I'm no TV buff, but I don't think any TV show, past or present, can match The Wire in it's depth and complexity, yet remain approachable and entertaining. The acting is top-notch too.

My favorite characters are D'Angelo Barksdale, Stringer Bell, Randy Wagstaff, Frank Sobotka and Omar Little.

My favorite scene is the one where Omar Little is shot in the convenience store. I had to go back and replay it three more times after I first saw it. Shivers shot up my spine each time. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB_MEUq3tFE

[Vanguard1917]

The final Bodie scene. Courage, resoluteness, a willingness to self-sacrifice -- great qualities none of which is put to good use. The old dead prez line "dying over streets we don't even own anyway" sums up the situation pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFkWPNJAy14

[Random Precision]

(spoilers)

Watching it for the second time with my partner, getting into the body count in Season 5. I was incredibly touched for some reason by what Proposition Joe had written on the card he sent to Butchie's funeral, just before he himself is killed on Marlo's orders:

"To Butchie: Woe unto those who call good evil, and evil good. Your true and loyal friend, Proposition Joe."

[bricolage]

The final Bodie scene. Courage, resoluteness, a willingness to self-sacrifice -- great qualities none of which is put to good use. The old dead prez line "dying over streets we don't even own anyway" sums up the situation pretty well.

Yeah that scene, and the chat with mcnulty, were deep; "the game's rigged".

[political_animal]

I am absolutely hooked on The Wire. I think it helps that (having heard a lot of hype about it being 'the best TV show ever') they have shown all the series pretty much straight through here in the UK on the BBC over the last few months, with 3 episodes per week and the nest season following straight on. We are now on to the final season.

It just looks and feels like an amazing programme. The way each season focuses on a different aspect of city life, whilst at the same time, keeping all of the regular characters involved, so that you get a greater sense of their characters and a better depth of feeling about them. The thing I love the most, is the way that the show just completely fucks with you in the way that the characters can change over time (some becoming more rounded citizens, some going bad) and that it isn't related to whther they are 'traditional' good guys or bad guys, based on being drug dealers or cops. The other thing that fucks with me, is the way that a main character can just be killed off! It's a stunning piece of work.

With the characters, it is great to see how much depth they have. It's good to see how some of them change like McNulty who has massive ups and down and the way his brilliant detective work is sometimes overshadowed by him being a drunk with terrible parenting skills. Whilst on the other side of the fence, you have Stinger Bell (the evil drug king pin) who wants to go straight and make legit money. The best thing in the entire programme for me, is seeing Stringer apply the lessons he learns from his economics class to the drug dealing trade. Proper lol moment and yet at the same time, you can see how it makes sense, with drugs being a product and a commodity just like any other. The way he tries to get the message over to the soldiers though, is often hilarious.

It's also brilliant the way they inject moments of comedy into what could otherwise be a grim show. Someone mentioned the famous "Fuck...fuck...FUCK!" scene, which is hilarious, but surely the best scene has to be Snoop buying the nail gun. Fucking funny :lol:

I also enjoy the way that you can relate to (or even cheer on) either the cops (supposedly the good guys) or the drug dealers and also boo either cops or drug dealers (like pantomime villains!) There are no rights and wrongs, just 'life' and with the way the characterisation is handled, it just makes the programme so watchable.

Considering the cast are made up of a lot of unknowns, it always surprises me though, that the Mayor of Baltimore is Stuart from Queer As Folk!

[makesi]

A different view:

http://lecolonelchabert.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/you-can-take-the-hood-out-of-the-hood/

[political_animal]

A different view:

http://lecolonelchabert.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/you-can-take-the-hood-out-of-the-hood/

Dear me! You have to wonder if ANYTHING is beyond the criticism of a film studies student dissertation. It's hardly Birth Of A Nation in it's depiction of 'savage negroes' and 'civilised white folk'.

Go and analyse Stormfront. You'll have a field day there.

[9]

A different view:

http://lecolonelchabert.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/you-can-take-the-hood-out-of-the-hood/

Oy...
First, I've gotta say, there is actually plenty of room to argue (and I tend to agree) that The Wire really only seems radical in comparison to the rest of popular television and is, on its own merits, far more representative of the "compassionate liberal" perspective of the dynamic between law enforcement, crime, and poverty than the perspective of a leftist (let alone a revolutionary leftist). But for fuck's sake, that article is so bloated with highbrow schmaltz and pretentiousness that its literally nauseating to read, irrespective of the point it attempts to make. I'm sure there is a better leftist critique of the show somewhere on the web that doesn't read quite so much like a self-impressed first year university student haphazardly trying out their new set of vocabulary words.

[khad]

A different view:

http://lecolonelchabert.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/you-can-take-the-hood-out-of-the-hood/
It's a good leftwing critique of the show. The guy apparently also does a decent job extending his argument in the comment section, though you have to pick up on his sarcasm. I laughed out loud when I read this:


there is some genuine disturbing Orwellian effect this show had on people…here’s an essay from Jump Cut
http://www.ejumpcut.org/currentissue/Wire/2.html

Discussing the dead policeman at Cole’s wake, one of the most memorable scenes in the series, Homicide Sergeant Landsman characterizes the characters’ lives as “sharing a dark corner of the American experiment.” In a montage of brief shots, the character of Cole, the Irish cop, is visually reconstructed. Some of the elements in the mise-en-scene are contradictory, even outlandish. On a pool table draped with a police flag are arranged a photo of the dead officer in dress uniform, rosary beads hanging over one corner and a St. Bridget’s cross lying in front of it. A shot of a bottle of Jameson Irish whiskey held in the corpse’s left hand cuts quickly to a close-up of the wedding ring on his third finger. Shots of cuff links, cigars and tie follow in quick succession before settling briefly on his police shield. The figure of Cole as a symbol of policing, albeit a chaotic and contradictory one, is thus established, a perception heightened by Landsman’s observation that he was neither the world’s greatest cop nor its worst. Neither was he the world’s greatest husband nor the worst. A wider angled shot during the eulogy completes the picture: a candle, a celtic cross and a statue of the Virgin Mary.

The incongruity of these elements…

policeman, catholic, drinker, Irish. this combination exhibits a fascinating and subversive “incongruity”. It’s almost as amazingly imaginative as the drug dealer who is black and (get this!) owns a new condo with a terrace.

[JohannGE]

I can see the quality but "it says nothing to me about my life".

Couldn't even be bothered to watch a full episode.

[pierrotlefou]

Maybe it's because I live there that I've never watched the show much. All I have to do is look out my window and see all of that for free.

[9]

Maybe it's because I live there that I've never watched the show much. All I have to do is look out my window and see all of that for free.

Do you have the accent? :D

[makesi]

Oy...
First, I've gotta say, there is actually plenty of room to argue (and I tend to agree) that The Wire really only seems radical in comparison to the rest of popular television and is, on its own merits, far more representative of the "compassionate liberal" perspective of the dynamic between law enforcement, crime, and poverty than the perspective of a leftist (let alone a revolutionary leftist). But for fuck's sake, that article is so bloated with highbrow schmaltz and pretentiousness that its literally nauseating to read, irrespective of the point it attempts to make. I'm sure there is a better leftist critique of the show somewhere on the web that doesn't read quite so much like a self-impressed first year university student haphazardly trying out their new set of vocabulary words.


I didn't appreciate the rather thick prose Chabert uses at some points, (in the post and the comments) but I still felt that when I gave it a closer reading to make sure I understood it that he made a lot of good points.

And, actually, I doubt you'll find a better leftwing critique of it anywhere on the net. When The Wire was discussed a year or so ago on Marxmail I remember seeing only praise for it, which is why I finally decided to get around to watching some of the episodes myself. I noticed the same universal praise for it here on this forum. Leftists, in my experience, seem to get bothered by people criticizing their favorite entertainment. It is as though they feel a need to justify their viewing of it by making it into something more than a leisure activity or guilty pleasure; that, in fact, it's the opposite because they see critical notions in this or that aspect of such and such tv show, film, book, etc.

In my opinion, Chabert does an excellent job in making the case for a much more critical reading of the show than one that simply sees the mere presence of unions or poor people or shady and corrupt politicians as, in themselves, providing the show with a leftish edge.



(I've seen all of season 1 and the first 3 episodes of seasons 2 and 4. I rented the season 4 disk originally, without paying attention to what season it was.)

Honestly, I found the show at least somewhat entertaining, although I've already lost interest in watching it. I laughed hard when Bodie, in season 1, says before the Judge who is granting him home monitoring and asks him if he can report by phone to his probation officer, "Yeah, cool. Whateva'......Your Honor." and when he mocks the two police officers (I forget their names, the bald white guy and his black friend). Etc. etc.

On the other hand, I really don't see any reason to praise the show as embodying any radical messages.

[ComradeOm]

On the other hand, I really don't see any reason to praise the show as embodying any radical messages.Who on this forum has suggested that it does? The show has been praised, in this thread, for its sheer entertainment value - the characters, plot, writing, etc. No one other than yourself has seen necessary to subject it to some academic analysis regarding its 'progressiveness'

[political_animal]

Who on this forum has suggested that it does? The show has been praised, in this thread, for its sheer entertainment value - the characters, plot, writing, etc. No one other than yourself has seen necessary to subject it to some academic analysis regarding its 'progressiveness'

(putting on my best Dominic West-as-McNulty-playing-an-American-putting-on-an-English-accent) Spot on!!

It's a great show. The characters, the plots, the atmosphere even. It can be watched as entertainment, or you can look for the deeper meanings that are presented, but criticizing it for not being revolutionary in the political sense (it is certainly revolutionary in terms of how a TV show is made) is wrong. I'm not aware of David Simon claiming to be a Ken Loach type director, or a Marxist radical destroying the system through TV, he is merely presenting his view of the problems in the city within which he reported for many years and the fact that the show presents the innate humanity present in even the most deprived areas and also the bullshit politics involved from some of those in charge, is one of the best aspects of the show. I mean, when was the last time you saw the good and bad in all sides presented on the screen? We have good and bad cops, good and bad drug dealers, good and bad parents, good and bad politicians, good and bad union guys. But it's not even as black and white as that. The programme is so good because it constantly shows that ALL the characters are merely human. They all have good sides and all have bad sides. One of the best aspects of the show, is the roller-coaster ride you go through watching a character you hate do something humane, or watching your favourite character be a nasty piece of shit. It merely represents life in the closest proximity to reality that I have ever seen.

On the basis that we AREN'T dealing with a show trying to present a Marxian analysis of the streets of Baltimore, how then can it be criticised for not pushing 'the party line'? I said in my previous post that you could probably rip holes in anything you wanted to. Look for problems, issues and reactionary attitudes and you will surely find them present anywhere, in any walk of life, but the idea that this programme is somehow the most reactionary TV show ever, for having the temerity to present itself as a leftist show (whatever the hell that is), is not only wrong, but misguided and misplaced.

It is just a TV show, but...
It is a show that tries to entertain but also has 'a message'.
It is a very liberal (I mean in the sense we understand in the UK, not the proto-commie meaning it has apparently taken on in the US) show in it's attitudes to the characters.
It presents a damning indictment of the way our inner-cities are run, whilst at the same time, showing how the ordinary people in those cities, manage to carry on with the daily lives.
It shows how utterly wrong-headed the 'war on drugs' has been.
It shows political bullshit, police brutality, the deprivations of the drug-lifestyle, the dangers (and rewards) of being a dealer.
It shows homosexuality in a very matter of fact way.
It even shows a union official who, though corrupt in the way he handles the union money, does so, not for great personal gain but out of compassion and humanity, looking after the interests of those in the union.

I just don't understand the need for the criticism that has been levelled at The Wire in this way, in the link that was provided. Just because it isn't directed by a revolutionary and just because it isn't pushing a constant Marxist line, doesn't make it the most reactionary piece of shit ever.

It's a great show, presenting a very liberal and humane view of life in the inner cities. On that basis, it is very uncommon and surely a step forward for TV and it's depictions of every day people and the trials and tribulations of every day life.

[khad]

On the basis that we AREN'T dealing with a show trying to present a Marxian analysis of the streets of Baltimore, how then can it be criticised for not pushing 'the party line'?
Because everything can be subjected to a leftwing ("Marxist" if you want to call it that) analysis. To give you an example, one of my favorite television programs of all time is the animated adaptation of Fuyumi Ono's 12 Kingdoms. I like it for its plot and characterization, its richly detailed setting, and its well-written score.

Nevertheless that doesn't stop me from condemning many of the political messages contained in it as reactionary feudalist garbage.

Enjoying something and political criticism are two quite different things.


I just don't understand the need for the criticism that has been levelled at The Wire in this way, in the link that was provided. Just because it isn't directed by a revolutionary and just because it isn't pushing a constant Marxist line, doesn't make it the most reactionary piece of shit ever.Nowhere does the review say anything about creating revolution. Did you even read it? It mostly talks about the show's implicit fetishization for "legit" capitalism. That scene with the ex-drug dealer ordering his lazy black henchmen back to work with a little lecture about demand elasticity made my eyes roll.

The review connected certain dots for me--now, I can actually place David Simon's own pro-corporatist politics:
http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2009/07/david-simon-objectively-pro-cartel.html



No, he's not putting in a good word for the New Day Co-op (http://thewire.wikia.com/wiki/New_Day_Co-Op). Journalist and TV producer David Simon began by calling on the feds to relax the anti-trust laws so that newspapers can collude to put all their content behind pay walls at once. That idea went nowhere. Now Simon has penned an open letter encouraging giant news corporations to simply ignore anti-trust laws:
Most of all, I know that here you are being individually asked to consider taking a bold, risk-laden stand for content—that antitrust considerations prohibit the Times and The Post, not to mention Rupert Murdoch or the other owners, from talking this through and acting in concert. Would that every U.S. newspaper publisher could meet in a bathroom somewhere and talk bluntly for fifteen minutes, this would be a hell of a lot easier. And yes, I know that if one of you should try to go behind the paywall while the other’s content remains free, then, yes, you would be destroyed. All that is apparent.

[Random Precision]

*Sigh*

The Wire is not a show about revolution, or revolutionaries. But it does repeatedly, and consistently, demonstrate that the problems of Baltimore (which the creators mean to extend to all American cities) do not rest with the mayor, police commissioner, drug kingpins or whoever else, but with the institutions that make up the framework of the city. Under capitalism, that is the best you are going to get from TV, and it deserves our praise.

And as for this, khad...


policeman, catholic, drinker, Irish. this combination exhibits a fascinating and subversive “incongruity”. It’s almost as amazingly imaginative as the drug dealer who is black and (get this!) owns a new condo with a terrace.

It's almost like the same show doesn't feature prominent characters such as a black lesbian cop with serious relationship issues, a gay stick-up man with an impeccable moral code, a drug dealer who teaches his hoppers chess, a union official who goes corrupt for the sake of saving his union... This guy just must be too damn clever to like a show that the rest of us like. :rolleyes:

[Pawn Power]

David Simon (the director) on bill moyers journal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulcqNMHVic)

apparently he thinks capitalism is the best we can do. other than that, an overall smart guy.

[PRC-UTE]

from the blog critique linked by makesi:


The integrity of legitimate business (such as tv production and distribution), and the legitimacy of the dominant or mainstream culture from within which the programme addresses its audience, is sustained through the use of the discourse of race and the traditions of mass and popular culture genres which allow for the creation of the illusion of “two worlds”, two separate societies and cultures, immediately intelligible because of the paradigm made familiar by the Western and in particular what Pauline Kael identified as “the street Westerns”, whose image of the city with an interior jungle or frontier can be traced back to the 19th century French and English novels’ adaptation of James Fenimore Cooper’s tales to urban settings.

The very first comment on the blog already said this, but this comment really misses the point of the show (and that quoted text is one sentence btw)

If you want the actual ideological content of the show, here it is: (http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3131/)


On the surface, The Wire is just another programme about crime and punishment on the
streets of American cities. But even a cursory glance proves it has a much wider and
more ambitious remit. Co-creator David Simon says: ‘I am interested in institutions
and how they try to preserve themselves even as they are crumbling…. American power
and American weakness is the subject. One of the subjects.’ (1)

Accolades for the series include the San Francisco Chronicle‘s description of it as
‘an astonishing display of writing, acting and storytelling that must be considered
alongside the best literature and film-making in the modern era’. It continues: ‘The
Wire is the best show on television [depicting] the decline of the American working
class while still juggling storylines about poverty and crime, the failed drug war,
stagnating corruption, failed marriages, alcohol as a shield against unrealised
dreams, race relations, Catholic guilt [and] revenge.’ (2)