A class interest illustration

[RGacky3]

In the airline industry (or any industry) airlines compete with one another for the market share. However, when it comes to government issues, and many social issues, the industry will work together for their collective interests, be it to widen the market, to protect the industry, to lessen general costs and so on and so forth. The industry has many interests that are much wider than internal competition.

For example many times if there is a strike in one airline, many times the rest of the industry will support the airline (with whome they are in competition with, and whos strike will actually make the others market share better) simply because a successfull strike in one of the airlines will encourage worker solidarity in the rest of the industry.

Many times the industry will come together to get the government to get regulation, to get subsidies, to, for example, not support passagner train industries or whatever.

The same is true for the Capitalist class, however the Capitalist class has much more power than the airline industry, and really their control is over all industry and resources all over the world. The Capitalist class is also in the vast minority when it comes to population while ocntroling the vast majority of the resources. Which is why many times Capitalists will against their individual interests, work together as a class to secure their class interests.

So to those who say there is no class war, open your eyes, the Capitalists already work together in solidarity in controling the resources and capital of the world, its about time workers started fighting for their interests too in solidarity.

[Misanthrope]

Do you know what class struggle is? Yes capitalists work together on the top to maintain their profit. That is, to maintain the financial exploitation of their employees.

Workers are fighting for their interests in solidarity, they have been since the time of Sparticus and such. What are you getting at?

[RGacky3]

What I'm getting at is that it is rediculous to deny class war or to think that workers and Capitalists should just work together, some people think of class warfare being something that only workers do against the capitalists, and that unionization and solidarity is something that only workers to do fight against the lone capitalist.

What I'm getting at is that class war exists and is waged primarily by the capitalist class for their own interests.

This is directed mainly toward people who deny class warfare.

[Robert]

Nope. The chief opponent of every capitalist is his fellow capitalist. They expend more energy figuring out how to lure qualified employees away from their competitors than they do oppressing their slaves. They do so with promises of higher wages, often in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and routinely at rates that are quadruple the minimum wage.

Think those wage slaves are interested in revolution? Think again.

[RGacky3]

Nope. The chief opponent of every capitalist is his fellow capitalist. They expend more energy figuring out how to lure qualified employees away from their competitors than they do oppressing their slaves. They do so with promises of higher wages, often in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and routinely at rates that are quadruple the minimum wage.

Think those wage slaves are interested in revolution? Think again.

No but in any situation in history or in the world when the wage slaves DID threaten Capitalist absolute power, those interests changed very fast.

[Ele'ill]

Class war?

:rolleyes:

You'll have a better chance at getting angry soccer moms on the barricades than most wage slaves.

[Pogue]

Thats a solid argument Mari3L, it took me a while to get through all the details you provided too

[Ele'ill]

Thats a solid argument Mari3L, it took me a while to get through all the details you provided too



Transnational corporations have had better luck at destroying capitalism through the passive but blatant greenwashing of middle and lower class america than any anarchist or communist organization has in the last ten years.

Period.

The capitalist machine has staged its first major mock strawman assault on itself and the winner is the enemy that has been the enemy all along but has gone incognito as just another gear or 'not really the issue'.

I dont' see a class war. Perhaps the word class has misrepresented itself. What of the middle class left?



So to those who say there is no class war, open your eyes, the Capitalists already work together in solidarity in controling the resources and capital of the world, its about time workers started fighting for their interests too in solidarity.

Your perception of wealth-hierarchy is skewed.

[RGacky3]

Your perception of wealth-hierarchy is skewed.

Solid argument, your analysis based on empirical evidence and logical reasoning convinced me that my origional standing was wrong.

Stick to not buying things and feeling good about it.


Transnational corporations have had better luck at destroying capitalism through the passive but blatant greenwashing of middle and lower class america than any anarchist or communist organization has in the last ten years.

destroying capitalism? What do you think I'm talking about, what are you talking about?


The capitalist machine has staged its first major mock strawman assault on itself and the winner is the enemy that has been the enemy all along but has gone incognito as just another gear or 'not really the issue'.

I dont' see a class war. Perhaps the word class has misrepresented itself. What of the middle class left?

What are you talking about? Read my post figure out what I'm talking about first.

[Lynx]

Part of what you've described is rent-seeking. (eg. Many times the industry will come together to get the government to get regulation, to get subsidies, to, for example, not support passagner train industries or whatever.)

[Ele'ill]

Solid argument, your analysis based on empirical evidence and logical reasoning convinced me that my origional standing was wrong.

I was seeing if I'd get a bite. No, this isn't a troll attempt. I didn't know if anyone in the thread would want to converse on this issue.

Thanks for being a part of this.


Stick to not buying things and feeling good about it.

Better than funding oppression. (and feeling good about it) :lol:




destroying capitalism? What do you think I'm talking about, what are you talking about?

The business sector has been allowed to sacrifice capitalist ideology (and physical material) for various reasons and this has done more damage than intentional, planned or otherwise 'direct worker action'.

Its the serial killer that cuts himself while the police frantically search the city for him.




What are you talking about? Read my post figure out what I'm talking about first.

What?

[Judicator]

Firms within an industry have a clear reason to collude - they all mutually benefit from collusion and if the number of firms is sufficiently small collusion is enforceable. It is always in each firms individual interest to defect and firms will do so whenever possible. This is the difference between small firms and capitalists as a class - any kind of collusion against workers (say low wages) would quickly be broken by a capitalist who paid slightly higher wages and captured 100% of the labor market and thus nearly 100% of the profits.

It also becomes complicated in the sense that whenever you do things like invest in your retirement as a worker you are becoming a capitalist - so where do your interests really lie?

[RGacky3]

Originally Posted by RGacky3 http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1506847#post1506847)
What are you talking about? Read my post figure out what I'm talking about first. What?

I'm talking about class interests.


The business sector has been allowed to sacrifice capitalist ideology (and physical material) for various reasons and this has done more damage than intentional, planned or otherwise 'direct worker action'.


Yeah, I agree, direct worker action, does less damage, but the question is to who, direct worker action damages Capitalists profits and power, which is a good thing, Capitalist class war, many times, damages many many things, peoples lives, the enviroment, and so on.


any kind of collusion against workers (say low wages) would quickly be broken by a capitalist who paid slightly higher wages and captured 100% of the labor market and thus nearly 100% of the profits.

In theory that may be the case, however in practise it is'nt hte case at all. First of all labor is'nt fluid, capital is, which means wages are not the only variable, secondly, capitalist class interests generally come first.

For example, one great strategy that could be implimented, for competitors of WallMart would be to support unionization attempts, it would'nt be that hard to do. BUt I guarantee you it will never happen, why? Because it goes against their class interests, and it will set a precident that will perhaps effect them as well.

You take power away from one Capitalist, you threaten the rest of them. Capitalists know this, which is why they will act many times for class interests, many times using the State as a tool.


It also becomes complicated in the sense that whenever you do things like invest in your retirement as a worker you are becoming a capitalist - so where do your interests really lie?

Being a Capitalist does'nt mean holding stock in a company or something. A Capitalist is someone that makes a primary living by invesetment, and the labor of others, that is the Capitalist class, and then theres the upper eshlons of the Capitalist class that have enough wealth that they can use it to wield power.

Many workers that are fortunate enough do have savings and retirement funds, and investments sometimes too. However our main source of income and our means of living comes from wages. Thats the difference.