Questions on Obama

[Lyev]

I don't know what to think of him until I know more about him, like what are his policies? I hear from some people that they're not too dissimilar to Bush. Two other things about him are I also heard he was sorting out Guantanamo Bay and also that he was putting more troops into Afghanistan.

Also another question that kind of links in is do the west really have a place in Iraq and Afghanistan? and is there only real purpose there for oil? I'm sure it's more complex than that, but thanks for any replies.

Sorry if any of my queries seem naive, and all responses are appreciated. :)

[Misanthrope]

Same American policies, different face.

[Manifesto]

Every president has been the same (with a few exceptions) so yeah they are the same except for one is stem-cells and the other against.

[ArrowLance]

I don't know what to think of him until I know more about him, like what are his policies? I hear from some people that they're not too dissimilar to Bush. Two other things about him are I also heard he was sorting out Guantanamo Bay and also that he was putting more troops into Afghanistan.

Also another question that kind of links in is do the west really have a place in Iraq and Afghanistan? and is there only real purpose there for oil? I'm sure it's more complex than that, but thanks for any replies.

Sorry if any of my queries seem naive, and all responses are appreciated. :)

Obama is sexy, that's about the only difference (meaningful difference from my position) between him and many presidents.

[Lyev]

So is it that Obama is black and like a fresh, young face? Sort of like JFK? Cos I get the impression that people who know bugger all about politics vote for him just because his wife wears nice clothes or whatever.

[Misanthrope]

So is it that Obama is black and like a fresh, young face? Sort of like JFK? Cos I get the impression that people who know bugger all about politics vote for him just because his wife wears nice clothes or whatever.

Well American citizens in general know bugger about politics.

[Rjevan]

First off: Hi, welcome to the forum! :)


I don't know what to think of him until I know more about him, like what are his policies? I hear from some people that they're not too dissimilar to Bush. Two other things about him are I also heard he was sorting out Guantanamo Bay and also that he was putting more troops into Afghanistan.
He is some sort of "Bush light", not that conservative like Bush but definitely no socialist as the media and the right-wing opposition likes to present him. He presents himself as liberal and pretends that he’s shocked about the crimes of the Bush government but in fact he does absolutely the same and it’s just politics: big show and big lies

Maybe you want to go through these threads, they are good examples of Obama’s real actions which are not praised in the media:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/yes-we-can-t102391/index.html
http://www.revleft.com/vb/do-you-rate-t107665/index.html
http://www.revleft.com/vb/should-cia-torture-t106659/index.html

Sure, he does things like trying to improve the relationship between the USA and Cuba or closing down Guantanamo but well, Guantanamo is without any use and indefensible, he had to close it to satisfy the general public and a secret prison which is not secret anymore is worthless anyway. I seriously doubt that Guantanamo was the only prison of its kind, I’m sure there are others out there which are still secret and Obama surely won’t close them as long as they are useful.
And Cuba was long enough a pain in the ass for America so opening borders and this kind of stuff doesn’t show his desire for peaceful relations and international understanding but his desire to make Cuba a capitalist USA outpost once again, like it was before the revolution.


Also another question that kind of links in is do the west really have a place in Iraq and Afghanistan? and is there only real purpose there for oil? I'm sure it's more complex than that, but thanks for any replies.
Oil is one of the main reasons, look at how many states there are in Africa and Arabia where brutal dictators rule and oppress their people but as long as they are pro-American that’s no problem at all. So it’s clear that Afghanistan and Iraq didn’t happen out of humanitarian reasons or because anybody honestly believed that Hussein will nuke the USA, it was just to secure the oil in that area.
It's totally out of question that Hussein was an oppressive dictator and that the Taliban rule was inhumane and disgusting but as I said that were not the reasons and the west has no place there. What the US and their allies were doing there was just plain imperialism par excellence, nothing else. It’s the same attitude as for example the UK had regarding their colonies "Oh, look, some backward savages, and how many precious resources and goods they have! Tell you what, it’s our god given duty to colonise their country and bring them the wonders of civilization… and along the way exploiting them."


So is it that Obama is black and like a fresh, young face? Sort of like JFK? Cos I get the impression that people who know bugger all about politics vote for him just because his wife wears nice clothes or whatever.
That JFK example is quite fitting. People had enough of Bush and his republicans, it was pretty obvious that a democrat would be the next president because after 8 years of shitty republican policies which worsened almost everything it is natural that people want change. And now there comes this good-looking, young, dynamic and charismatic senator who promises change and that everything will get better and that America will rise again. And he’s black so this is a great symbol for a real change, finally, after slavery, discriminations and hard fights for equality a black would become president of the United States, what a great symbol for real change! On the other hand there’s a over 70 years old hardcore conservative guy who seems to be just a continuation of Bush’s policies… so it’s not a very hard decision who to vote for, even if you have absolutely no idea what this nice young man stands for, just because of change!

[Lyev]

Well American citizens in general know bugger about politics.

So, Wolves of Paris, would the world be a better place if people were educated? If so, how do we educate so many people?

[Kukulofori]

There's definitely much more to the war than that. It's also to crush the will of the middle eastern people, to remind them and the rest of the world that we own them and there's no point in resisting.

Saddam actually wasn't that bad as far as middle eastern dictators go. Compare Saddam, who let women hold public office, to Saudi Arabia (http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/obama-saudi-arabia_47286438.jpg) where women can't even drive. Iraq is in many ways actually WORSE off under the US-sponsored government; I've heard complaints from GLBT groups in particular.


So, Wolves of Paris, would the world be a better place if people were educated? If so, how do we educate so many people?

WE don't. As a middle school dropout, I feel in a good position to say that the public school system is more a stupification and indoctrination camp than an actual place of learning (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm) and that after dropping out of school, I naturally learned about subjects that were relevant or interesting to me just out of interest. i'm not special in any way.

[Asoka89]

I don't know what to think of him until I know more about him, like what are his policies? I hear from some people that they're not too dissimilar to Bush. Two other things about him are I also heard he was sorting out Guantanamo Bay and also that he was putting more troops into Afghanistan.

Also another question that kind of links in is do the west really have a place in Iraq and Afghanistan? and is there only real purpose there for oil? I'm sure it's more complex than that, but thanks for any replies.

Sorry if any of my queries seem naive, and all responses are appreciated. :)

Regarding oil... your right on the money it IS far more complex than that. US companies weren't awarded any of the major Iraqi oil contracts, a bunch of them with to the Chinese.

Iraq was a gambit by the neoconservatives that they could replace Hussein's psuedo-fascist state with a pro-American, liberal "democracy" that would be a shining example of freedom and markets, etc etc that would reshape the Middle East.

Of course leftists should have opposed it in the prewar build up, but it's worth at least considering this and documents like it from the secular left in Iraq http://www.iraqcp.org/members3/0060125icpr.htm

Afghanistan is more complicated than most leftists are willing to admit.

[Lyev]

It seems so bleak, is there anything that can be done to stop a shit president getting in?

[Kukulofori]

It seems so bleak, is there anything that can be done to stop a shit president getting in?

This is basically the backbone of anarchist thought. As long as there are presidents there will be shit presidents, and every American president and the vast, vast majority of other presidents have been shit.

[Misanthrope]

So, Wolves of Paris, would the world be a better place if people were educated? If so, how do we educate so many people?

Of course it would be better if people were educated. Leftists can educated others by passing out literature, simply discussing politics ect.

[Revy]

well Obama's approving ratings just hit a record low of 52% (July 27-29), (http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx)

[Lyev]

Well it seems after all of that discussion that I'm left with the thought that the Capitalist west (edit: and east) are fucking shits.

[Kukulofori]

The East is pretty much the same, just the west pretty much owns it and doesn't treat it as well.