Animal Farm - of G Orwell

[Dutch Commie]

what's your opinion on this book?

[Incognito]

I liked It.

I read it a while ago, so I don't remember every detail. It is a bit childish, with animals revolting and running their own farm, but I think that everyone should read it.

It gives some intersesting insights into how communism can turn into facism if one person becomes more powerful then the others, and how one powerful person can currupt something as good as communism. Reminds me of Stalin in the USSR.

[I Will Deny You]

I think someone else started a thread on this book a little while ago, but I might be thinking of some other boards I post at.

I think the book was mostly nothing but an extended metaphor that took itself too seriously. Orwell's first book always seemed like his best to me. Anyway, it never gave me any real insight to what happened in the USSR. I've read books on it and talked to people who ran from Stalin, and Animal Farm always seemed like more of an introduction to what had happen aimed at first-graders than a real study of it.

1984 didn't give any real insight into what could happen to the world, but it was creative, inventive, and a lot more thought-provoking. I think the main problem with Animal Farm is that when a writer, politician, etc. says something that could be a line of dialogue from the book, I never think, "Hey, that sounds like something out of Animal Farm!" It was too based-on-a-true-story and didn't single out enough of one aspect to make itself stand out in my mind. 1984, meanwhile, has become a lot more engrained in our culture and comes to mind a lot more often.

[Zippy]

Quote: from Incognito on 12:15 am on Jan. 20, 2002
It is a bit childish, with animals revolting and running their own farm ...
That isnt childish, its satire.

There is another thread in the "Theory" section of this forum, if you wish to post on that one.

Zippy.

[Hayduke]

I ll read it some day

[Nateddi]

I had to read it for English class as an example of propaganda. My teacher said that it is anti-communist and shows how it doesnt work.

[El Commandante]

To put it bluntly your teacher is ignorant and can't see further then their own nose. It is anti-Stalinism, that is a fact, in the thread Zippy is talking about there is a list of all the different actions and how they relate to Stalin, ie the windmill is the five year plan. But I think that it was also discussed that there was criticism of Trotsky but it was more hidden.

[El Commandante]

Here is the topic that Zippy was talking about:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...rum=13&topic=70 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=13&topic=70)

[Freedom Fighter]

My take on it was this - the peoples revoultion needs to protect itself from fascism scum - my teacher said the same thing "it shows that communism simply dosent work" - the funny thing is it showed me the potential of communism as a classless society (before the fascism take hold) so the jokes on him - that prick helped create a commie

[Robot Rebellion]

Quote: from Nateddi on 8:36 am on Feb. 4, 2002
I had to read it for English class as an example of propaganda. My teacher said that it is anti-communist and shows how it doesnt work.
Orwell was a socialist... Ask your teacher if Orwell was a capitalist then why did he write, 'The Road to Wigan Pier' and 'The Lion and The Unicorn'. Even in animal farm, the humans represented capitalist parasites. Again, as others have pointed out, this was more of a critique of the likes of Stalinism. Orwell did want communal control over the means of production, but controlled by the populace, not by a few bureaucrats.

[Eastside Revolt]

Quote: from Robot Rebellion on 8:37 pm on April 6, 2003

Quote: from Nateddi on 8:36 am on Feb. 4, 2002
I had to read it for English class as an example of propaganda. My teacher said that it is anti-communist and shows how it doesnt work.
Orwell was a socialist... Ask your teacher if Orwell was a capitalist then why did he write, 'The Road to Wigan Pier' and 'The Lion and The Unicorn'. Even in animal farm, the humans represented capitalist parasites. Again, as others have pointed out, this was more of a critique of the likes of Stalinism. Orwell did want communal control over the means of production, but controlled by the populace, not by a few bureaucrats.

I'm not sure if Orwell was a socialist, he was first and foremost an anti-imperialist. I think he was really disapointed with the way that the Soviets became an empire, so he wanted to show that in an entertaining book.

[Robot Rebellion]

Quote: from redcanada on 4:14 am on April 7, 2003
I'm not sure if Orwell was a socialist, he was first and foremost an anti-imperialist. I think he was really disapointed with the way that the Soviets became an empire, so he wanted to show that in an entertaining book.There is plenty of information on this via the web. Here are some links that talk about this: http://www.geocities.com/commiebrendan/soc...oms/orwell.html (http://www.geocities.com/commiebrendan/socoms/orwell.html)
http://www.k-1.com/Orwell/storgaard.htm

He even called himself a democratic socialist.

[hazard]

nah, orwell was definately at least a socialist if not a full blown communist

he presented all of his stories from the perspective of the "common" man, and in doing so allowed every reader access to his socialist ideas. some people get confused because of his delivery method.

"a breath of air" is a perfect example of this

as for the argument that "animal farm" is anti stalin, I don't see it. it is obviously anti capitalist. the clue is in the way that it ends.

were the pigs ALWAYS humans, or were the humans ALWAYS pigs? the symbols in use are accurate enough, but whether the animal farm itself is a model of a communist nation, like most people think, or a model of a fledgling capitalist one is debatable. i see it more as a description of a bougeois revolution than a communist revolution.

remember, the bourgeois promised "liberty, equality and fraternity", to all people, not just all members of their class. as the revlutionary fires died down, however, these ideals got shifted and twisted into what now comprises modern capitalist nations.

the animal farm was never socialist, it was never communist. it was always capitalist. if it was a communist revolution, there wouldn't be any pigs at all, would there?

capitalist education has this satire of THEIR revolution perverted into a satire of the russian communist revolution. the facts of the text prove that this is false.

[El Barbudo]

Orwell was a communist, but he got furious when he saw what was happening in Russia. He was an idealist, and maybe a little troskyt. Animal Farm shows that the population must be educated so you know if something change... Lenin also wanted people to be educated, so that ANYBODY could govern.

1984 is pretty good too... Sometimes, I think the world is going like 1984... UK-US/French-Russia-China/Arab World...

[El Barbudo]

Orwell was a far-seer.
His vision of the world in 1984 may be in the end of capitalism

[thursday night]

It was a half-amusing and quick read, but overall it was terribly inacurate of the earlier history of the Soviet Union.

[hazard]

who told you people that animal farm is a satire of the USSR? my money is on the capitalist education system. TRUST ME. the name napoleon is not a coincidence. it is a satire of the french revolution in specific, and ALL bourgeois revolutions in general. capitalist education is simply trying to deflect the truth and paint Orwell, a socialist, as having critical problems with the USSR. its a sad day when the capitalists do to Orwell EXACTLY WHAT HE WROTE would be done in 1984. mother fucking pigs.

[Hate Is Art]

Orwell was not a commie, he was Socialist and Animal Farm is losely based on the Russian Bolshevik Revoulution and on Stalin, Napoleon in the French transaltion is called of the book is called Cesar, Stalin is so blatantly Napoleon it hurts my brain you cannot see this.

Also unless I am mistaken wasn't Ropespear the head of the French Revoulution.

[Pete]

Rosepierre lost his head in 97 I believe

[hazard]

robespierre was the instigator of the reign of terror that saw all counter revolutionaries beheaded. you were making a joke with "head of the revolution", oui? I forget when he himself was beheaded, but he was responssible for mass terror throughout all ranks of france until the terror ended. which subsequently occured almost in direct correlation to the rise of Napoleon. coincidence? I think not. in relation to my translation of Animal Farm as being about the french revolution, that is.

[the pen]

animal farm is a brillant satire of the russian revolution
it is important to note that orwell doesnt critise the revolution merely the beurachy headed by napoleon.

it is also important to note that orwell himself was a socialist. he fought in the spanish civil war, first with the stalinist then with the poum. he called for a revolution in england during the second world war. he experiences in spain can be read in the book "a homage to catalonia"

[hazard]

animal farm is an amazing satire of the french revolution.


does there really have to be TWO threads on this? maybe the mod could squeeze hem into ONE.

[exploding toast]

some day ill come around to reading it

[hazard]

and if you do, don't read it thinking its about the russian revolution (because it isn't), just read it.